Flying mounts inherently break the core concepts of the game, so I would hope they never become more than a rarity. I actually think they shouldn't exist at all, but the .1% existence of them is an ok compromize.
When a game's content revolves around travel time and the difficulties of travel, you absolutely can not have anything that makes such things irrelevant.
The only time unrestrained flying mounts and flying are good for a game is when the game is designed from the ground up with them in mind, like Aion.
Otherwise they are just glorified content skip mechanics parading as either "lol flying is fun huehue", or "I hate being inconvenienced by actually playing the game so I want to be able to skip playing the game to get around to playing the game".
WoW flying mounts break the game, hence why they are always restricted behind max level or other things.
FF14 flying mount breaks the game, but you can teleport everywhere in that game anyways so it's already kind of broken in that sense. At least FF14 was designed around being able to instantly be anywhere.
Edit: GW2 Path of Fire zones were completely designed around their mount system, including gliding mount (and the skyscale for later maps) and it fits perfectly. Though GW2 is like FF14 where you can teleport almost anywhere, but a lot of places are restricted by skill-based mount movement, which is dope. Non-skill based flying is just unengaging and boring, and you can't really design non-flying content around it.
Even Heart of Thorns maps were completely designed around gliders, and (though some people got confused by the verticality) you can't deny they are some of the most fun or engaging maps to traverse with just gliders.
I'm on team Keep flying very rare As much as i'd love to fly i believe it's better for the game long-term too keep activity down on the ground. Also seeing someone soaring through the sky above you makes me think of:
Flying mounts inherently break the core concepts of the game, so I would hope they never become more than a rarity. I actually think they shouldn't exist at all, but the .1% existence of them is an ok compromize.
When a game's content revolves around travel time and the difficulties of travel, you absolutely can not have anything that makes such things irrelevant.
The only time unrestrained flying mounts and flying are good for a game is when the game is designed from the ground up with them in mind, like Aion.
Otherwise they are just glorified content skip mechanics parading as either "lol flying is fun huehue", or "I hate being inconvenienced by actually playing the game so I want to be able to skip playing the game to get around to playing the game".
WoW flying mounts break the game, hence why they are always restricted behind max level or other things.
FF14 flying mount breaks the game, but you can teleport everywhere in that game anyways so it's already kind of broken in that sense. At least FF14 was designed around being able to instantly be anywhere.
Edit: GW2 Path of Fire zones were completely designed around their mount system, including gliding mount (and the skyscale for later maps) and it fits perfectly. Though GW2 is like FF14 where you can teleport almost anywhere, but a lot of places are restricted by skill-based mount movement, which is dope. Non-skill based flying is just unengaging and boring, and you can't really design non-flying content around it.
Even Heart of Thorns maps were completely designed around gliders, and (though some people got confused by the verticality) you can't deny they are some of the most fun or engaging maps to traverse with just gliders.
Ohhh I didn't know about gliding! I assume it will be kinda like GW2 but less cartoony?
Out of curiosity, why do you consider GW2 flying mounts cartoony?
I see your point. I do like the concept of gliding that GW2 introduced. And i hope AoC work on more vertical spaces like GW introduced in that expansion. And when i said "cartoony", you know exactly what i meant with these insane wings they added, a little too over the top. I'm an old old GW1 player and GW2 did go down a path that's extremely cartoony. GW1 was never that cartoony other than the holiday events or mini pets.
But i'm all for gliders! As long as they are designed well and not crazy particle effects added etc.
there is also another big difference between WoW on one side, and FFXIV/GW2 of the other side :
Flying mounts killed open world PvP in wow... and not in FFXIV/GW2 because... doesnt exist.
Also flying mounts are useless on FFXIV mostly, was just in for the "hey look now you can fly" but most map design don't even use it. GW2 worked the maps with the tools players have in mind.
For AoC ? open world PvP exists, but even more, is needed for the game, so flying mount is a big problem.
But i am fine with what we have, only rare people will be able to fly and it won't be forever. Metropolis Mayor/king can lose their title and so their flying mount, and the flying mount from loot won't be infinite but time limited.
As a guild leader who may end up getting one, I dislike the idea of having it. The rarity of them will cause drama in some guilds and ultimately I want my players to experience as much of the game as possible. I don't feel it will add anything to my gameplay other than turning me into a scout while the raid moves around (which I don't want to have to do as a tank).
Gliding mounts sound amazing. Certain structures offering height and the ability to leap off and soar to an area over X amount of time sounds really entertaining, especially with how beautiful the game already is. If we are able to traverse a large distance from specific city/castle locations, this will alleviate "some" of the need for players to want a flying mount but only if flying mounts aren't in the game.
Super curious to hear what people think of flying mounts and locking it behind certain content only less than 1% of player-base will actually achieve. Just curious what people think. If they think it's good because it makes it special and unique. Or if you feel similar mounts in the FUTURE could potentially be easier to obtain.
Watching a certain streamer yesterday i was just thinking how cool it would be with flying combat
As someone who isn't a fan of mounts in MMOs in general, I hope they'll be as rare as possible. In Lineage 2 for example, only Kings of castles had flying mounts and it was super cool to see it. Also, remember, guilds will have something to work towards and it will be rotating, since I assume once you lose the castle, you lose the flying mount.
Personally I do think " Flying" mounts should be just as rare as they are, BUT Gliding mounts should also be available ( much easier but still a grind) to traverse terrain just for times sake. If the map is going to be massive and teleports are going to be limited then it would be nice to have a way to get from point A to point B quickly.
I love the idea that if you see a player flying overhead or soaring into a siege battle; it's a special and rare occurrence. Like seeing some famed legendary hero, rallying his troops.
Seeing them and wanting to soar above the clouds will be an inspiration and motivator to push aspiring players to pursue claiming their own flying mount. I already daydream of the day I'll be able to take off and fly across the horizon... I just need to figure out how I intend to make that dream come true.
Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)
“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.”
-HPL
I love the idea that if you see a player flying overhead or soaring into a siege battle; it's a special and rare occurrence. Like seeing some famed legendary hero, rallying his troops.
Seeing them and wanting to soar above the clouds will be an inspiration and motivator to push aspiring players to pursue claiming their own flying mount. I already daydream of the day I'll be able to take off and fly across the horizon... I just need to figure out how I intend to make that dream come true.
That's the spirit my man. Something to always look forward to.
I want floating mounts. Not flying, but can cross over rivers or swamps with less hassle.
This would be really cool as an ability you can give/breed a mount with. Float on a timer seems interesting and definitely opens up the avenue for some really great breeding mechanics.
I'd prefer to not have flying mounts in the game at all. The 5 kings or queens of castles and the 5 mayors of metropolis's will have one. I think they should be restricted to either A: Only useable during the defense of that castle/metropolis or B: Useable at all times but only within that castle or metropolis's zone of influence. Kind of like a lord patrolling his/her land. As far as the boss drop ones, get rid of those too. But if they must be in the game, useable anywhere I guess, but a pretty short timer/lifespan.
Fully on board with the concept of working hard, effort being rewarded etc. Love how it's one of the main design philosophies of Ashes. But realistically, the average player will have no shot at even beginning to work towards a flying mount. It just won't be possible for 99% of players. That's why I think if they're in the game, their utility should be restricted to the A and B scenarios above.
Idk Having a flying mount which only what only like around 10 players on the entire server have makes you feel like a true king. Plus ashes Map size and node system discourages Long distance travel so the flying mounts rarity's playing into that I think.
flying mounts make the world look empty and ruin socialization. Even blizzard themselves said that flying mounts was one of the biggest mistakes they ever did and you can find countless videos explaining why it ruined many aspects of the game.
I am 100% against flying mounts because of that.
And I think it would be bad if players that already are in the top 1%, get an extra advantage to be able to fly. They can then just gank newbies from above, which would scare away new players and be bad for the game.
Also, the 1% you mention would only be 1% at the start, but as the game progresses more and more people would reach that level. If you want to give special rewards to top players, those have to be temporary. For example, as long as a player is in the top 1% pvp'ers on the server he can have a special reward, but once he drops he loses it.
I agree with the general consensus that flying mounts create problems. I think flying mounts were so detrimental to WoW because it made obsolete questing areas even more irrelevant, exacerbating the problem of zone abandonment. AoC promises to combat this problem with the node system. With that being said, I don't want to feel forced to stay on the ground. If you want me to stay on the ground, give me a reason. Make travel compelling. Traveling by foot or flight can be equally meaningless. Thankfully, I don't think this will be a problem in AoC.
However, I do think there are compelling reasons to have flying mounts in conjunction with proper constraints. I think it could add to the game by having flying mounts with stamina that drains quickly. The stamina could drain even faster if you have too many things in your inventory. Having "x" number of mats could weigh your mount down so you fly slower, up to the point you can't fly at all. If your mount runs out of stamina mid flight, you might fall, potentially taking fatal damage. Regenerating your mount's stamina could require special food requiring a high cooking skill using a rare recipe dropped by a world boss. That would be a hot commodity in the auction house! If you have corruption, maybe your mount could randomly buck you off midair. More corruption could increase the chance of getting bucked up to the point your flying mount won't cooperate at all. Perhaps only those with a skill level in Animal Husbandry could breed, train, and use flying mounts. To me, these things sound awesome, gives a huge incentive to follow various progression paths, and adds depth to the game. I don't believe flying mounts are inherently evil, they've just been badly implemented in other games.
Something like the above could aid and encourage exploration without introducing game breaking mechanics. I love the idea of popping above a tree line, seeing a snow capped mountain in the distance, then continuing on foot. If I keep getting ganked, flying mounts are a great counter measure to escape player camping. This feeds into player corruption mechanic idea, because even if the person ganking me can fly, I could fly faster! That would be so satisfying to watch some jerk who PK'd me get bucked off his mount during a pursuit.
I could go on and on with other examples, but I'm probably wasting my breath .
@Dreoh Sorry, I wasn't aware I was doing that! Thanks for cluing me in . I imagine gliding would provide many of the same benefits I see from a "restricted/restrained" flying system.
Gliding mounts are confirmed to be one of the mount types
Someone should probably ask Intrepid to clarify what they mean by gliding mounts.
The current definition we have (winged mounts that jump/glide/hover close to the ground) makes them seem functionally very different to what many people seem to think they will be.
Gliding mounts are confirmed to be one of the mount types
Someone should probably ask Intrepid to clarify what they mean by gliding mounts.
The current definition we have (winged mounts that jump/glide/hover close to the ground) makes them seem functionally very different to what many people seem to think they will be.
That is a good point, I hadn't really ever considered that they could have been using the term "gliding mounts" in any fashion other than mechanical gliding.
I suppose it could very well refer to hovering mounts, that are only flying aesthetically, and function as regular mounts.
I really hope it's the former, because a GW2 mount system is far better than any basic mount system seen in any other MMO
I suppose it could very well refer to hovering mounts, that are only flying aesthetically, and function as regular mounts.
After reading the one description we have, this is my thought as well.
I'd prefer gliding mounts akin to those in GW2 or Archeage (actual gliders, for the most part in that game), but the description we have does make them sound like hovering mounts - as you say.
Comments
Ohhh I didn't know about gliding! I assume it will be kinda like GW2 but less cartoony?
When a game's content revolves around travel time and the difficulties of travel, you absolutely can not have anything that makes such things irrelevant.
The only time unrestrained flying mounts and flying are good for a game is when the game is designed from the ground up with them in mind, like Aion.
Otherwise they are just glorified content skip mechanics parading as either "lol flying is fun huehue", or "I hate being inconvenienced by actually playing the game so I want to be able to skip playing the game to get around to playing the game".
WoW flying mounts break the game, hence why they are always restricted behind max level or other things.
FF14 flying mount breaks the game, but you can teleport everywhere in that game anyways so it's already kind of broken in that sense. At least FF14 was designed around being able to instantly be anywhere.
Edit: GW2 Path of Fire zones were completely designed around their mount system, including gliding mount (and the skyscale for later maps) and it fits perfectly. Though GW2 is like FF14 where you can teleport almost anywhere, but a lot of places are restricted by skill-based mount movement, which is dope. Non-skill based flying is just unengaging and boring, and you can't really design non-flying content around it.
Even Heart of Thorns maps were completely designed around gliders, and (though some people got confused by the verticality) you can't deny they are some of the most fun or engaging maps to traverse with just gliders.
Out of curiosity, why do you consider GW2 flying mounts cartoony?
★Which makes it even more awesome in my opinion★
I see your point. I do like the concept of gliding that GW2 introduced. And i hope AoC work on more vertical spaces like GW introduced in that expansion. And when i said "cartoony", you know exactly what i meant with these insane wings they added, a little too over the top. I'm an old old GW1 player and GW2 did go down a path that's extremely cartoony. GW1 was never that cartoony other than the holiday events or mini pets.
But i'm all for gliders! As long as they are designed well and not crazy particle effects added etc.
Flying mounts killed open world PvP in wow... and not in FFXIV/GW2 because... doesnt exist.
Also flying mounts are useless on FFXIV mostly, was just in for the "hey look now you can fly" but most map design don't even use it. GW2 worked the maps with the tools players have in mind.
For AoC ? open world PvP exists, but even more, is needed for the game, so flying mount is a big problem.
But i am fine with what we have, only rare people will be able to fly and it won't be forever. Metropolis Mayor/king can lose their title and so their flying mount, and the flying mount from loot won't be infinite but time limited.
Gliding mounts sound amazing. Certain structures offering height and the ability to leap off and soar to an area over X amount of time sounds really entertaining, especially with how beautiful the game already is. If we are able to traverse a large distance from specific city/castle locations, this will alleviate "some" of the need for players to want a flying mount but only if flying mounts aren't in the game.
Flying mounts are very cool, but they can also ruin a game, so I don't mind if at most 20 people can have flying mounts simultaneously.
As someone who isn't a fan of mounts in MMOs in general, I hope they'll be as rare as possible. In Lineage 2 for example, only Kings of castles had flying mounts and it was super cool to see it. Also, remember, guilds will have something to work towards and it will be rotating, since I assume once you lose the castle, you lose the flying mount.
Seeing them and wanting to soar above the clouds will be an inspiration and motivator to push aspiring players to pursue claiming their own flying mount. I already daydream of the day I'll be able to take off and fly across the horizon... I just need to figure out how I intend to make that dream come true.
Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)
“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.”
-HPL
That's the spirit my man. Something to always look forward to.
member of Knights of the Phoenix
member of Knights of the Phoenix
You mean like the Skimmer?
This would be really cool as an ability you can give/breed a mount with. Float on a timer seems interesting and definitely opens up the avenue for some really great breeding mechanics.
Fully on board with the concept of working hard, effort being rewarded etc. Love how it's one of the main design philosophies of Ashes. But realistically, the average player will have no shot at even beginning to work towards a flying mount. It just won't be possible for 99% of players. That's why I think if they're in the game, their utility should be restricted to the A and B scenarios above.
I am 100% against flying mounts because of that.
And I think it would be bad if players that already are in the top 1%, get an extra advantage to be able to fly. They can then just gank newbies from above, which would scare away new players and be bad for the game.
Also, the 1% you mention would only be 1% at the start, but as the game progresses more and more people would reach that level. If you want to give special rewards to top players, those have to be temporary. For example, as long as a player is in the top 1% pvp'ers on the server he can have a special reward, but once he drops he loses it.
However, I do think there are compelling reasons to have flying mounts in conjunction with proper constraints. I think it could add to the game by having flying mounts with stamina that drains quickly. The stamina could drain even faster if you have too many things in your inventory. Having "x" number of mats could weigh your mount down so you fly slower, up to the point you can't fly at all. If your mount runs out of stamina mid flight, you might fall, potentially taking fatal damage. Regenerating your mount's stamina could require special food requiring a high cooking skill using a rare recipe dropped by a world boss. That would be a hot commodity in the auction house! If you have corruption, maybe your mount could randomly buck you off midair. More corruption could increase the chance of getting bucked up to the point your flying mount won't cooperate at all. Perhaps only those with a skill level in Animal Husbandry could breed, train, and use flying mounts. To me, these things sound awesome, gives a huge incentive to follow various progression paths, and adds depth to the game. I don't believe flying mounts are inherently evil, they've just been badly implemented in other games.
Something like the above could aid and encourage exploration without introducing game breaking mechanics. I love the idea of popping above a tree line, seeing a snow capped mountain in the distance, then continuing on foot. If I keep getting ganked, flying mounts are a great counter measure to escape player camping. This feeds into player corruption mechanic idea, because even if the person ganking me can fly, I could fly faster! That would be so satisfying to watch some jerk who PK'd me get bucked off his mount during a pursuit.
I could go on and on with other examples, but I'm probably wasting my breath
Gliding mounts are confirmed to be one of the mount types btw, which is that middle ground you're looking at in a bit, just without vertical climb.
Someone should probably ask Intrepid to clarify what they mean by gliding mounts.
The current definition we have (winged mounts that jump/glide/hover close to the ground) makes them seem functionally very different to what many people seem to think they will be.
That is a good point, I hadn't really ever considered that they could have been using the term "gliding mounts" in any fashion other than mechanical gliding.
I suppose it could very well refer to hovering mounts, that are only flying aesthetically, and function as regular mounts.
I really hope it's the former, because a GW2 mount system is far better than any basic mount system seen in any other MMO
After reading the one description we have, this is my thought as well.
I'd prefer gliding mounts akin to those in GW2 or Archeage (actual gliders, for the most part in that game), but the description we have does make them sound like hovering mounts - as you say.