Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Range display #combatthings

TacualeonTacualeon Member
edited May 2021 in General Discussion
Could we get some basic floating number UI that displays the range of your target and mouse-over in meters and yards?
And maybe focus if the option is implemented in the future.

This allows people to makes educated choices and engage in a proactive way with the rules of the game: your skills range, and your rival skills range.
Combat doesn't happen around you, you make combat happen.
Great tool for the craftmanship of war.
Form and how pretty it looks would depend in Intrepid.
It would also depend on the players and their personal taste if Intrepid give us a bit of customization. This could be polished later.
I'm here mainly talking about function.

formoverfunction.png


Where are the pvp bois?
Do you want range display or not?
«134

Comments

  • FerniFerni Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited May 2021
    I would like to have something like that in-game. In Archeage you had that number in the top right corner of your target HP bar and it was helpful when you were playing a ranged class or against a ranged class.

    b9dcb6ed6dcbc18ccdedacff4a34ade8.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    No.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I agree with @Dygz with his concise reply. "No."

    I mean good heavens! Do you have a floating range UI or mouse~over ability when you are duck hunting, hitting a baseball or shooting basketball? Of course not. You eyeball the distance and give it your best shot.

    I think that the common name for that is 'skill.' Or lack thereof.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021
    Ferni wrote: »
    I would like to have something like that in-game. In Archeage you had that number in the top right corner of your target HP bar and it was helpful when you were playing a ranged class or against a ranged class.

    b9dcb6ed6dcbc18ccdedacff4a34ade8.png

    I like that.
    Could you makes the fonts bigger?
    What about mouse-over option or an altenative way to track a second player.?

    Since there is going to be things up to 250vs250 in Ashes I would like being able to track at least one more player.

    tautau wrote: »
    I agree with @Dygz with his concise reply. "No."

    I mean good heavens! Do you have a floating range UI or mouse~over ability when you are duck hunting, hitting a baseball or shooting basketball? Of course not. You eyeball the distance and give it your best shot.

    I think that the common name for that is 'skill.' Or lack thereof.
    1) If your building logic for an argument is that eyeball perception and screen perception have a 1:1 conversion we might never agree.

    2) If profesionals athletes, warrios and soldiers could enhance themselves with floating numbers they would.

    3) Let a game be a game and let us make the best out of it.
    The most engaged people, know they most numbers and most words.

    Let's not limit ourselves and give players choice over their fate.
    If you know the range information, you have a saying in every fights. Good choices versus bad choices.

    Combat experience is more rewarding in games when you know the numbers.
    Players get frustrated when they don't know why they died or failed. That's why I ask for a range indicator for some, and a death recap for others :)
  • What I want to see is support skills that do things players want out of quality of life addons like determining distance, health pools, resource pools, level, quality of gear etc. Give the ranger a distance tracking ability that they can mark people with, granting allies an approximate distance to the target. Let rogues be able examine someone for a time to learn more information about them. Let crafters ascertain how good someones armor or siege weapons are. Stuff like this would be more immersive and grant players the tools to do what would otherwise be an addon's job.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021
    tautau wrote: »
    I agree with @Dygz with his concise reply. "No."

    I mean good heavens! Do you have a floating range UI or mouse~over ability when you are duck hunting, hitting a baseball or shooting basketball? Of course not. You eyeball the distance and give it your best shot.

    If your building logic for an argument is that eyeball perception and screen perception works exactly the same, we might never agree.
    I think that logic is flawed, lazy and an crime against the architecture of fun and quality engagement.

    Let's not be lazy and excuse the lost videogame potential with the dumb premise that there is skill in depth percepcion and that videogame should be tied to the weight of reality.
    If you want depth perception go somewhere specialized gameplay like nbk2k or actualy basketball.

    I don't want to lose the kitting mmorpg experience because some confused person shoots duck in third while running.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021

    I actually watched that video some years ago and I liked.

    I don't think this counts as optimizing.
    This create a more engaging experience by not hiding information behind a false and lazy premise.

    Information give you choices, with choices you prove your skill.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    It most certainly does. Your last two threads are directly related to this. Giving information of this nature removes choices. Laziness requires this kind of information in lieu of skill.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021
    Giving information of this nature removes choices. Laziness requires this kind of information in lieu of skill.

    I most deeply disagree with that.
    Knowing more always gives you more choices.

    Lo sé porque inglés no es mi idioma nativo. Pero decidí involucrarme en este foro. Conozco tantas palabras como necesarias, y tengo un mundo de opciones si deseo aprender algo o acceder a alguna información en particular. Tus opciones tal vez son usar google traductor. Yo puedo decidir no hacerlo y navegar por este foro como si nada, e intercambiar ideas con personas que muchos otros nacidos en mi misma ciudad y condiciones tal vez no pueden.

    Knowledge gives you choice. Good choices can make knowledge become power.
    Range display is power to smart.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Ferni wrote: »
    I would like to have something like that in-game. In Archeage you had that number in the top right corner of your target HP bar and it was helpful when you were playing a ranged class or against a ranged class.

    b9dcb6ed6dcbc18ccdedacff4a34ade8.png

    I like that.
    Could you makes the fonts bigger?
    What about mouse-over option or an altenative way to track a second player.?

    Since there is going to be things up to 250vs250 in Ashes I would like being able to track at least one more player.

    tautau wrote: »
    I agree with @Dygz with his concise reply. "No."

    I mean good heavens! Do you have a floating range UI or mouse~over ability when you are duck hunting, hitting a baseball or shooting basketball? Of course not. You eyeball the distance and give it your best shot.

    I think that the common name for that is 'skill.' Or lack thereof.
    1) If your building logic for an argument is that eyeball perception and screen perception have a 1:1 conversion we might never agree.

    2) If profesionals athletes, warrios and soldiers could enhance themselves with floating numbers they would.

    3) Let a game be a game and let us make the best out of it.
    The most engaged people, know they most numbers and most words.

    Let's not limit ourselves and give players choice over their fate.
    If you know the range information, you have a saying in every fights. Good choices versus bad choices.

    Combat experience is more rewarding in games when you know the numbers.
    Players get frustrated when they don't know why they died or failed. That's why I ask for a range indicator for some, and a death recap for others :)

    Bro let the game be a game.
    You dont need Ironmans helmet to calculate your distance from the target.
    Just have fun with the visuals.
    Less numbers plz.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021
    Bro let the game be a game.
    You dont need Ironmans helmet to calculate your distance from the target.
    Just have fun with the visuals.
    Less numbers plz.

    Pvp is a battle of wits. Specially in tab target inspired games.
    Some people don't want to bring wits. Despicable.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2021
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Bro let the game be a game.
    You dont need Ironmans helmet to calculate your distance from the target.
    Just have fun with the visuals.
    Less numbers plz.

    Pvp is a battle of wits. Specially in tab target inspired games.
    Some people don't want to bring wits.

    Your opponent wont see the distance between you either. Use your wits. Win.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Bro let the game be a game.
    You dont need Ironmans helmet to calculate your distance from the target.
    Just have fun with the visuals.
    Less numbers plz.

    Pvp is a battle of wits. Specially in tab target inspired games.
    Some people don't want to bring wits.

    Your opponent wont see the distance between you either. Use your wits. Win.

    Where is the test of skill or wit if neither are aware of distance?

    Logic is missing. And if you are trying to sneak up the same logic bloodprophets uses I'm going to pass.
    And you might not know what wit means.
    tenor.gif?itemid=9201569
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Bro let the game be a game.
    You dont need Ironmans helmet to calculate your distance from the target.
    Just have fun with the visuals.
    Less numbers plz.

    Pvp is a battle of wits. Specially in tab target inspired games.
    Some people don't want to bring wits.

    Your opponent wont see the distance between you either. Use your wits. Win.

    Where is the test of skill or wit if neither are aware of distance?

    Logic is missing. And if you are trying to sneak up the same logic bloodprophets uses I'm going to pass, man.
    And you might not know what wit means.
    tenor.gif?itemid=9201569

    Most amazing and amusing you chose that scene. Clearly you have have clue what wit means.

    How is having exact information about the distance between you and your foe provided by the game using your supreme wit?

    Using your wit would mean you could figure it out better then your opponent and gain the advantage.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    I was gonna say no, but...

    Maybe a scientific node Trinket??
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Marcet wrote: »
    I was gonna say no, but...

    Maybe a scientific node Trinket??

    I like this.
    no by default, equip a combat assistant if you need it.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021
    How is having exact information about the distance between you and your foe provided by the game using your supreme wit?

    I'm not understanding what you are trying to ask.
    Can you express yourself more clearly?
    Using your wit would mean you could figure it out better then your opponent and gain the advantage.
    I don't think mmorpg is the correct genre to make depth perception a thing.
    I don't think depth perception on a screen is something any of us want to focus.
    I don't think depth perception is a engaging gameplay experience.
    I don't think making depth perception a task would be fun. Specially while managing cds and positioning in 250vs250.
    I don't think depth perception creates fun interaction. It doesn't create any interaction at all.
    I don't think you have put much tought into the argument you are trying to make.

    Seriously, have you ever been into at least a 10v10, 20v20, 250vs250. How does micro managing 1-5 meters while surrounded by dozens of enemies, managing cooldowns and positioning fun?
    In what mind does that unnecesary level of micro managment strike you as fun?
    Will you find fun in that? Does that creates fun for you?
    Does that creates fun interaction between players? Like both knowing the range and trying to out-position each other?
    wf-boxes-malcolm.jpg

    Or are you mindlessly making an argument for realism because you think it makes you look cool and skilled?

    This all sounds like those intense guys that want rpgs with hunger and thirst meters because realism and they think they look cool but haven't actually though that much about the consequences or even if it is fun.
    I invite you to reconsider your opinion.
    What you are proposing is not fun. It's a burden in the way of fun.

    But fun is subjective.
    Go pursuit that gameplay experience if you truly think that will be a rewarding and fun experience.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2021
    Bro...
    If your opponent cannot see how far you are from him
    and you cant see how far he is from you
    that means whoever is more skilled will judge the right moment to take action.

    If my ranged stun has 28m reach and I can see that my target is 28m away, it's so EASY to stun.

    It baffles me how people claim that having a ton of UI and addons, telling them what to press and when makes them become better than others. 0 logic.

    You are not a warrior, you are not an athlete or a soldier.
    And the mmorpg is not e-sports.
    I want a clear screen with my HP/MP/buffs/debuffs, my target nameplate and a good skillbar.
    Not a jetfighters battle control system.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    As a future ranger main I have to agree with "No".

    Not having a range read out means that you have to use your skill as a player to accurately gauge the distance of attacks.

    Having a range read out devalues player skill. No one has to gauge anything, they just magically know.
    Leave some room in the game for player skill.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • FerniFerni Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    I like that.
    Could you makes the fonts bigger?
    What about mouse-over option or an altenative way to track a second player.?

    Since there is going to be things up to 250vs250 in Ashes I would like being able to track at least one more player.

    No, you couldn't make them bigger. If I remember correctly in AA there was only that number and only over your target bar.
    I was fighting massive PvP battles in AA and that number was enough for me. I never felt that I needed extra range numbers.

    If your opponent cannot see how far you are from him
    and you cant see how far he is from you
    that means whoever is more skilled will judge the right moment to take action.

    I didn't play the Alpha yet and I think we don't know how the combat system will end up being but if you have a target system I will assume your skills will have a range to be able to use them so the caster always will know if he is in range or not. If you have a high range skill you can spam it until you are in range to be able to use it.

    I've played Archeage a game where you have your target distance on screen and I didn't feel like the game was less skilles because of that. I don't know how measuring distances in AoC will be but I remember that in AA when you were fighting in the water it was a bit hard to know your enemies distance even if you could target them to know the distance so rangers were really strong in this enviroment.

    I'm using AA examples because it was a game with this system and it was useful for me, maybe it wasn't for other AA players.

    I'm not a fan of floating numbers and massive amounts on information on screen neither, but something like the small distance number from AA would work for me. It was a small number only on your target, like the HP and MP, and not something really crazy.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2021
    I played AA and many other mmos. Hell why not list a few:
    Eso
    Bdo
    Tera
    Ff14
    L2
    None of these numbers, small or large, are helpful for anything. If it helps you, it helps your opponent. If you dont have them ingame, your opponent doesnt either.

    All these numbers, small or large, occupy your focus. Are you playing a game or do run the control tower of an airport?
  • What a ridiculous argument. Just because you have more and accurate information makes your decisions more skillful? Should we not then see player's gear score at a glance too? Their HP number, player lvl the number of potions they have in their inventory maybe?
    Having experience in any game means you have a better handle and can better estimate/infer information about the situation. Players will learn to gauge things like distance through experience, you don't need to play mental chess due to information overload for every encounter.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited May 2021
    I want a clear screen with my HP/MP/buffs/debuffs, my target nameplate and a good skillbar.
    Not a jetfighters battle control system.

    Exactly, jetfighters take skill.

    All this words and many post to finally say out loud you don't want high skill cap by camouflaging it with the lazy argument of realism.
    It wasn't that hard, wasn't?

    Also, Jetfighters are cool. You don't want to be cool?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7OYPb3fTP0
    battle control
  • FerniFerni Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I played AA and many other mmos. Hell why not list a few:
    Eso
    Bdo
    Tera
    Ff14
    L2
    None of these numbers, small or large, are helpful for anything. If it helps you, it helps your opponent. If you dont have them ingame, your opponent doesnt either.

    All these numbers, small or large, occupy your focus. Are you playing a game or do run the control tower of an airport?
    I've played those too and I think TERA and AA were the only one with a distance indicator. I understand that you want a clear interface and the less information the better, or at least is what I guess from your previous posts. Sorry if I'm missunderstanding.

    As I said I'm not a fan of massive amount of information on my screen so don't assume that I want to play an airport control tower simulator, because you are wrong. What I am trying to point out is a situation that in Archeage was avoided precisely because of having that indicator.

    If you have a game with an action combat system like BDO where you can miss skillshots or use them out of range, a distance indicator is not needed at all and I woulnd't like to had it.

    But if you have a game with targets and you can't use your skills unless you are in range to do it, that indicator make senses to me. Because if not what is going to happen is you are going to have players using a high ranged class and just looking when they can use they skills to know the distance from their targets and since you won't be able to know that distance, they will be at an advantage against you.
    If your opponent cannot see how far you are from him
    and you cant see how far he is from you
    that means whoever is more skilled will judge the right moment to take action.

    If my ranged stun has 28m reach and I can see that my target is 28m away, it's so EASY to stun.
    If we end up with a target system you will "see" that your target is 28m away, because you won't be able to use your skill since is out of range.

    If you use the skill and it goes in CD even being out of range, then I would not like to have a distance indicator.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Ferni wrote: »
    I played AA and many other mmos. Hell why not list a few:
    Eso
    Bdo
    Tera
    Ff14
    L2
    None of these numbers, small or large, are helpful for anything. If it helps you, it helps your opponent. If you dont have them ingame, your opponent doesnt either.

    All these numbers, small or large, occupy your focus. Are you playing a game or do run the control tower of an airport?
    I've played those too and I think TERA and AA were the only one with a distance indicator. I understand that you want a clear interface and the less information the better, or at least is what I guess from your previous posts. Sorry if I'm missunderstanding.

    As I said I'm not a fan of massive amount of information on my screen so don't assume that I want to play an airport control tower simulator, because you are wrong. What I am trying to point out is a situation that in Archeage was avoided precisely because of having that indicator.

    If you have a game with an action combat system like BDO where you can miss skillshots or use them out of range, a distance indicator is not needed at all and I woulnd't like to had it.

    But if you have a game with targets and you can't use your skills unless you are in range to do it, that indicator make senses to me. Because if not what is going to happen is you are going to have players using a high ranged class and just looking when they can use they skills to know the distance from their targets and since you won't be able to know that distance, they will be at an advantage against you.
    If your opponent cannot see how far you are from him
    and you cant see how far he is from you
    that means whoever is more skilled will judge the right moment to take action.

    If my ranged stun has 28m reach and I can see that my target is 28m away, it's so EASY to stun.
    If we end up with a target system you will "see" that your target is 28m away, because you won't be able to use your skill since is out of range.

    If you use the skill and it goes in CD even being out of range, then I would not like to have a distance indicator.

    I guess you are not as skilled as I am.
    I wont waste my CD.
    No crutches and screen clutter. End of story. Learn to play without number assistance (goes to everyone. Not a personal opinion attack.)
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited June 2021
    Not a jetfighters battle control system.
    I guess you are not as skilled as I am.

    So you are skilled but not like, super roaring-over-the-high-sky and burn-bright high skill-cap peak human the-best-it-can-be type of skilled, just medium, beige, old school skilled?
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    Not a jetfighters battle control system.
    I guess you are not as skilled as I am.

    So you are skilled but not like, super roaring-over-the-high-sky and burn-bright high skill-cap peak human the-best-it-can-be type of skilled, just medium, beige, old school skilled?

    Ye. Because it's a video game. Enjoy it
  • SaeduSaedu Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I tend to agree with @Tacualeon on this one. I generally find that having data enriches the gaming experience for me. If I have data I'm more likely to be making decisions based on the data than random luck.

    Also, from a healing perspective it can be very frustrating when you are healing raid frames and can't tell who is in range and who is not. This isn't a skill vs not skill thing, when someone takes damage you do not have time to look around to try to find where they are. You need to immediately heal them or they are going to die.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited June 2021
    it's a video game.
    Enjoy it

    This friend is in the zone, somebody bring him a red bull and start taking notes.
Sign In or Register to comment.