I can't understand banning someone from a vending machine because they said something or did something you don't like. It is just a waste of money to me.
Right. But, you for some reason are obsessed with money.
I don't play RPGs to reap a bunch of money. That's probably lower on my list of interests than killing stuff and my Bartle Score Kill quotient is 0%.
It's better RP if my minions can refuse to sell to characters I don't like. It's also better RP if NPCs can refuse to sell to characters they don't like.
And, if your characters will sell to anyone, even people they don't like, because they want all the money they can get...that is also great RP for those specific characters.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Sounds like a tool for a griefer. Anyway, if you did block me and stop me from using the only leather armor store in my node, you wouldn't be able to get mats, that's all I'll say.
I wouldn't want mats from characters I don't like. That's not a problem.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Feature creep is valid concern. This system could be buggy af. No one likes losing out on a sale due to bugs and that's one of the potential things they'd need to run even more extensive qa than other features to prevent huge backlash. Otoh itd probably be part of the block system anyway if one of those systems is implemented. But tats a separate discussion.
It's only feature creep if the devs don't already have that in the design.
I can't understand banning someone from a vending machine because they said something or did something you don't like. It is just a waste of money to me.
Right. But, you for some reason are obsessed with money.
I don't play RPGs to reap a bunch of money. That's probably lower on my list of interests than killing stuff and my Bartle Score Kill quotient is 0%.
It's better RP if my minions can refuse to sell to characters I don't like. It's also better RP if NPCs can refuse to sell to characters they don't like.
And, if your characters will sell to anyone, even people they don't like, because they want all the money they can get...that is also great RP for those specific characters.
Sounds like a tool for a griefer. Anyway, if you did block me and stop me from using the only leather armor store in my node, you wouldn't be able to get mats, that's all I'll say.
Then we buy from characters not on the trade black list.
If you were ever on a trade black list, which I assume will have a limited number, then it would probably be for a good reason. Players like that are unlikely to contribute anything to the greater community anyway.
If it wasn't limited then it would just be a griefing tool and nothing else.
Maybe it would be more effective to not have a permanent squelch/ignore feature though. That way it would give players a chance to rejoin the community if they realized people were muting them for being stupid.
It would have to be permanent for a store black list, but it does not necessarily have to be that way for interactions in the game. Even if it meant you muted them every single time you saw them maybe some day you would wish for them not to be muted. It's a lot easier for that to happen on limited ignoring than if you had to remove them from the ignore list manually.
It's a lot easier for that to happen on limited ignoring than if you had to remove them from the ignore list manually.
But it is a lot harder if you have a guild you have good reason to want to ignore due to a harassment campaign.
If people know you have to reignore them every time they see you, that in itself will become a form of harassment. Wait until the person is busy, then all rush in and bombard that player with various pieces of text based harassment, knowing they either need to stop what they are doing in order to reignore you, or wait until they have finished what they are doing.
And yes, people will do this. Daily.
It isn't worth it just to make people that didn't realize you shouldn't be a dick in chat have an automatic second chance, third chance, and fourth chance.
If i had a store, i would like to as said before run MY store as i see fit. That means blacklisting, or limiting a single individual up to the full extent of a guild if needed, and it should be up to the owner fully. If a group does not like that, they should either
1: Not end up ending on that list
2: Shop elsewhere
and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed.
This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc.
This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner.
It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both.
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ThexBlackxKnightMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I can't understand banning someone from a vending machine because they said something or did something you don't like. It is just a waste of money to me.
If i had a store, i would like to as said before run MY store as i see fit. That means blacklisting, or limiting a single individual up to the full extent of a guild if needed, and it should be up to the owner fully. If a group does not like that, they should either
1: Not end up ending on that list
2: Shop elsewhere
and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed.
This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc.
This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner.
It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both.
Why would the mayor have any decision to make on this?
But, I think we will already of some of that with permissions for our Freeholds.
I think it would be cool if some NPCs blocked sales from their stalls for players characters they don't like.
But, that is more challenging to program.
Since we have an NPC manning our stalls -possibly even with the appearances of our player characters- it makes some sense that we should be able to refuse service to characters on our block lists.
Just because the game is open world, does not mean our player characters should be obligated to sell to anyone who comes to our stall.
But, it really depends on what the devs are able to implement.
Personally, I would never in a million years block sales from someone I hate. Greed is more useful of an emotion than hate to me.
That said, I could see people creating anticompetitive trade blacklists. Which could be good for drama and political intrigue. I just would worry that there is other possible abuse methods that are more destructive to the game.
At a minimum, the trade blacklist would have to be separate from normal chat block/ignore. Otherwise, it removes the whole block/ignore feature from the game for guys like me who only block people when they spam.
I also agree that it is extra crap to implement. The feature creep is real.
My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it. Which is worth more than the gold you get from them if they immediately use that new advantage to mess with you or your guild in a malicious or competitive way.
If you set up a stall for this you would have to constantly monitor the sales or risk the above happening which I dont think is a hassle we should be forced to deal with. Not having the option is an annoyance and makes selling harder for players that are dealing with the above situation, and having it as an option is literally a check mark for you to press.
I think there's more value gained from the additional option, don't you?
just adding to this, This also can be used as a tool to force players to shop outside of their node or fight more fiercely for resources within it. It may put a hamper on short term transactions but I would expect an increase in trade as a result. You could even have political agreements where guilds demand a removal of this trade block or they will uproot and leave entirely, leaving the node vulnerable to attack.
My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it.
My counter to this would be, if I had such an item, I wouldn't be selling it.
If it were going to give a rival guild an advantage, it would give my guild an advantage as well.
My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it. Which is worth more than the gold you get from them if they immediately use that new advantage to mess with you or your guild in a malicious or competitive way.
If you set up a stall for this you would have to constantly monitor the sales or risk the above happening which I dont think is a hassle we should be forced to deal with. Not having the option is an annoyance and makes selling harder for players that are dealing with the above situation, and having it as an option is literally a check mark for you to press.
I think there's more value gained from the additional option, don't you?
just adding to this, This also can be used as a tool to force players to shop outside of their node or fight more fiercely for resources within it. It may put a hamper on short term transactions but I would expect an increase in trade as a result. You could even have political agreements where guilds demand a removal of this trade block or they will uproot and leave entirely, leaving the node vulnerable to attack.
If I had rare and powerful items I don't think I would put them in my stall.
If I want to go and buy, lets say: "a Hydraulic VR Motion Platform" for my living room... I had a good year and I want a toy that is beyond enthusiast level...
You can find these things online, but you can't just order them like a normal item off Amazon. In a sense they are rare and powerful items. To obtain even the price you have to deal with a broker and even haggle a little. They might even need to know what you want it for before selling it to you. Most enterprise grade hardware and software is like this in the real world. If you want the "Big Boy" version of something. The deal is rarely automated. If it is automated it comes at a much higher cost than if you just brokered a deal.
If I was selling rare and powerful items. I think it would be by trade only. I would want you to be in good standing with my guild. I would also raise/lower the price based on how risky I think giving you the item is.
My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it.
My counter to this would be, if I had such an item, I wouldn't be selling it.
If it were going to give a rival guild an advantage, it would give my guild an advantage as well.
Well we are talking about the sale of said item. So in this case it would be worth more in gold than the actual use of it since we are deciding to sell it. This can be because you already have one and its unique or say a recipe that your crafters already know. Basically its something you would be fine selling to anyone that is not your competitor/enemy.
Well we are talking about the sale of said item. So in this case it would be worth more in gold than the actual use of it since we are deciding to sell it. This can be because you already have one and its unique or say a recipe that your crafters already know. Basically its something you would be fine selling to anyone that is not your competitor/enemy.
It can't be that powerful if you are willing to sell it over to a rando instead of a guild mate or just keeping it. Specifically, in Ashes you are going to need the crafting mats of rare and powerful items to repair your gear.
This means that you are more likely to keep mats in their processed non-item form instead of selling completed items, and when you do come across rare items that are fully made. Their value may be in the mats you can get from deconstructing them. Remember we use mats to repair gear, not gold.
My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it.
My counter to this would be, if I had such an item, I wouldn't be selling it.
If it were going to give a rival guild an advantage, it would give my guild an advantage as well.
Well we are talking about the sale of said item. So in this case it would be worth more in gold than the actual use of it since we are deciding to sell it. This can be because you already have one and its unique or say a recipe that your crafters already know. Basically its something you would be fine selling to anyone that is not your competitor/enemy.
If it is worth more gold to sell than to use, how could that item be of a benefit to a rival guild?
I mean, you specifically said the item could give a rival guild a leg up over the guild that the player selling it is in. If this is the case, how could selling that item be the most financially beneficial thing for that player to do with that item?
In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else?
My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.
In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else?
My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.
There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation.
1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.)
2: We bank it for potential future crafters.
3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.)
4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.)
To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2021
Haha! Right!
That is the world view of someone who does not RP.
You play from the perspective of the player' not from the perspective of the character.
Haha! Right!
That is the world view of someone who does not RP.
You play from the perspective of the player' not from the perspective of the character.
I already told you I RP as a Ferengi. I take it so seriously I don't even allow my wife to wear cloths.
In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else?
My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.
There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation.
1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.)
2: We bank it for potential future crafters.
3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.)
4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.)
To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable.
Hey and that's all fair. I think this is just personal preference at this point. I would like to have the option to set and forget my stall with all my loot I want to sell, and have it not be sold to the creeps I don't like. Sure they could make alts or friends buy it, whatever I made them work for it. Perhaps the guild level stuff is not as important as I first thought, but I still think a single player having the power to decide who accesses their stall or inn is a good idea.
In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else?
My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.
There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation.
1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.)
2: We bank it for potential future crafters.
3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.)
4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.)
To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable.
Hey and that's all fair. I think this is just personal preference at this point. I would like to have the option to set and forget my stall with all my loot I want to sell, and have it not be sold to the creeps I don't like. Sure they could make alts or friends buy it, whatever I made them work for it. Perhaps the guild level stuff is not as important as I first thought, but I still think a single player having the power to decide who accesses their stall or inn is a good idea.
Also fair,
I would like to warn you that having to maintain a block list on that level seems like it would be a lot of work.
What if someone who is not on your block list buys from you to sell to someone who is?
For high value items I would want to know my clients well in such a competitive environment.
Maybe you should be asking for a whitelist instead? The 5 to 10 people who are allowed to buy this item...
In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else?
My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.
There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation.
1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.)
2: We bank it for potential future crafters.
3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.)
4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.)
To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable.
Hey and that's all fair. I think this is just personal preference at this point. I would like to have the option to set and forget my stall with all my loot I want to sell, and have it not be sold to the creeps I don't like. Sure they could make alts or friends buy it, whatever I made them work for it. Perhaps the guild level stuff is not as important as I first thought, but I still think a single player having the power to decide who accesses their stall or inn is a good idea.
Also fair,
I would like to warn you that having to maintain a block list on that level seems like it would be a lot of work.
What if someone who is not on your block list buys from you to sell to someone who is?
For high value items I would want to know my clients well in such a competitive environment.
Maybe you should be asking for a whitelist instead? The 5 to 10 people who are allowed to buy this item...
Hm, I quite like that idea, hell even better than a blacklist. That cuts out all the gamey crap they can pull, and we can have some fun "betrayal" drama crop up when a white listed decides to abuse said privilege.
If i had a store, i would like to as said before run MY store as i see fit. That means blacklisting, or limiting a single individual up to the full extent of a guild if needed, and it should be up to the owner fully. If a group does not like that, they should either
1: Not end up ending on that list
2: Shop elsewhere
and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed.
This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc.
This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner.
It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both.
Why would the mayor have any decision to make on this?
It was an example, as indicated by the etc etc in the end, and the " by a number of ways " in the beginning.
If i had a store, i would like to as said before run MY store as i see fit. That means blacklisting, or limiting a single individual up to the full extent of a guild if needed, and it should be up to the owner fully. If a group does not like that, they should either
1: Not end up ending on that list
2: Shop elsewhere
and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed.
This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc.
This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner.
It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both.
Why would the mayor have any decision to make on this?
It was an example, as indicated by the etc etc in the end, and the " by a number of ways " in the beginning.
But it was the only one you gave. If we are talking about players preventing those they don't want to sell to from using their shop, the mayor should have nothing to do with it.
Haha! Right!
That is the world view of someone who does not RP.
You play from the perspective of the player' not from the perspective of the character.
Not wanting to speak for Vhaeyne, but that may be because he likes who he is as a person enough to not feel the need or desire to pretend to be someone else.
I want to ask people to stick to the point going forward.
Where we are now, some agree, some don´t.
Question to you who disagree.
Why should a person that behaves bad enough to end up on a block or ignore list, be given levels of freedom in doing trades and buy materials from someone that has taken the block / ban action?
Why should a person that behaves bad enough to end up on a block or ignore list, be given levels of freedom in doing trades and buy materials from someone that has taken the block / ban action?
When you block/ignore someone you are not magically removing them from the world.
Because this is an open world game you will still have to see them, fight them, and maybe even party with them in the future.
What you are blocking/ignoring their chat. Most likely because of spam, but maybe because they annoyed you. Again, that player is still a person in the world that you are going to have to deal with moving forward.
You can't block/ignore behavior unless it is chat related.
If you choose not to trade with them manually that is on you, but just like the real world. If you set up a vending machine in a public place. Anyone can access it and there is nothing you can do about it.
Philosophically I am not against people whitelisting or blacklisting shops or vending machines in the real world or the game world. I just think it is an extra feature that could introduce more problems than it solves.
I think I also did a good job explaining why you would not want to sell anything that is really valuable in your automated vending machine. Those sales need to be manual so that you can know the party receiving those goods is someone who is not going to be your enemy or put them in the hands of your enemy.
@Vhaeyne You are very good to explain " your " personal hopes for what´s to come. Also, i doubt anyone really know how trade, chat, block, ban, ignore etc works in Ashes. You speak of, among others, Wow systems etc..but that´s other games. Possibly it will be similar, but we don´t know, neither do you.
You seem very worried that we would have to see players we have blocked due to terrible behaviour, and thank you for that. Your concern is noted, but it will be up to us if that´s the case, and i would have no problem seeing a player i blocked or banned, because he or she cannot trade with me in any way shape or form...so my goal would be reached.
You are welcome to trade as you wish in your hub.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2021
Just because you see someone in the world does not mean you will trade with them. It does not mean that you will allow the workers at your stall to sell to people you have blocked.
Blocking them does not prevent you from seeing them and does not prevent them from seeing your stall. It just prevents them from buying your stuff.
And, that is excellent RP.
Comments
I don't play RPGs to reap a bunch of money. That's probably lower on my list of interests than killing stuff and my Bartle Score Kill quotient is 0%.
It's better RP if my minions can refuse to sell to characters I don't like. It's also better RP if NPCs can refuse to sell to characters they don't like.
And, if your characters will sell to anyone, even people they don't like, because they want all the money they can get...that is also great RP for those specific characters.
I roll play as a Ferengi at all times.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Then we buy from characters not on the trade black list.
If it wasn't limited then it would just be a griefing tool and nothing else.
Maybe it would be more effective to not have a permanent squelch/ignore feature though. That way it would give players a chance to rejoin the community if they realized people were muting them for being stupid.
It would have to be permanent for a store black list, but it does not necessarily have to be that way for interactions in the game. Even if it meant you muted them every single time you saw them maybe some day you would wish for them not to be muted. It's a lot easier for that to happen on limited ignoring than if you had to remove them from the ignore list manually.
U.S. East
But it is a lot harder if you have a guild you have good reason to want to ignore due to a harassment campaign.
If people know you have to reignore them every time they see you, that in itself will become a form of harassment. Wait until the person is busy, then all rush in and bombard that player with various pieces of text based harassment, knowing they either need to stop what they are doing in order to reignore you, or wait until they have finished what they are doing.
And yes, people will do this. Daily.
It isn't worth it just to make people that didn't realize you shouldn't be a dick in chat have an automatic second chance, third chance, and fourth chance.
1: Not end up ending on that list
2: Shop elsewhere
and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed.
This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc.
This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner.
It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both.
Yes why let sentiment get in the way of business.
Why would the mayor have any decision to make on this?
My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it. Which is worth more than the gold you get from them if they immediately use that new advantage to mess with you or your guild in a malicious or competitive way.
If you set up a stall for this you would have to constantly monitor the sales or risk the above happening which I dont think is a hassle we should be forced to deal with. Not having the option is an annoyance and makes selling harder for players that are dealing with the above situation, and having it as an option is literally a check mark for you to press.
I think there's more value gained from the additional option, don't you?
just adding to this, This also can be used as a tool to force players to shop outside of their node or fight more fiercely for resources within it. It may put a hamper on short term transactions but I would expect an increase in trade as a result. You could even have political agreements where guilds demand a removal of this trade block or they will uproot and leave entirely, leaving the node vulnerable to attack.
If it were going to give a rival guild an advantage, it would give my guild an advantage as well.
If I had rare and powerful items I don't think I would put them in my stall.
If I want to go and buy, lets say: "a Hydraulic VR Motion Platform" for my living room... I had a good year and I want a toy that is beyond enthusiast level...
You can find these things online, but you can't just order them like a normal item off Amazon. In a sense they are rare and powerful items. To obtain even the price you have to deal with a broker and even haggle a little. They might even need to know what you want it for before selling it to you. Most enterprise grade hardware and software is like this in the real world. If you want the "Big Boy" version of something. The deal is rarely automated. If it is automated it comes at a much higher cost than if you just brokered a deal.
If I was selling rare and powerful items. I think it would be by trade only. I would want you to be in good standing with my guild. I would also raise/lower the price based on how risky I think giving you the item is.
That is just me, though.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Well we are talking about the sale of said item. So in this case it would be worth more in gold than the actual use of it since we are deciding to sell it. This can be because you already have one and its unique or say a recipe that your crafters already know. Basically its something you would be fine selling to anyone that is not your competitor/enemy.
It can't be that powerful if you are willing to sell it over to a rando instead of a guild mate or just keeping it. Specifically, in Ashes you are going to need the crafting mats of rare and powerful items to repair your gear.
This means that you are more likely to keep mats in their processed non-item form instead of selling completed items, and when you do come across rare items that are fully made. Their value may be in the mats you can get from deconstructing them. Remember we use mats to repair gear, not gold.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
If it is worth more gold to sell than to use, how could that item be of a benefit to a rival guild?
I mean, you specifically said the item could give a rival guild a leg up over the guild that the player selling it is in. If this is the case, how could selling that item be the most financially beneficial thing for that player to do with that item?
My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_stalls
There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation.
1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.)
2: We bank it for potential future crafters.
3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.)
4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.)
To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
That is the world view of someone who does not RP.
You play from the perspective of the player' not from the perspective of the character.
I already told you I RP as a Ferengi. I take it so seriously I don't even allow my wife to wear cloths.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Hey and that's all fair. I think this is just personal preference at this point. I would like to have the option to set and forget my stall with all my loot I want to sell, and have it not be sold to the creeps I don't like. Sure they could make alts or friends buy it, whatever I made them work for it. Perhaps the guild level stuff is not as important as I first thought, but I still think a single player having the power to decide who accesses their stall or inn is a good idea.
Also fair,
I would like to warn you that having to maintain a block list on that level seems like it would be a lot of work.
What if someone who is not on your block list buys from you to sell to someone who is?
For high value items I would want to know my clients well in such a competitive environment.
Maybe you should be asking for a whitelist instead? The 5 to 10 people who are allowed to buy this item...
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Hm, I quite like that idea, hell even better than a blacklist. That cuts out all the gamey crap they can pull, and we can have some fun "betrayal" drama crop up when a white listed decides to abuse said privilege.
It was an example, as indicated by the etc etc in the end, and the " by a number of ways " in the beginning.
But it was the only one you gave. If we are talking about players preventing those they don't want to sell to from using their shop, the mayor should have nothing to do with it.
Not wanting to speak for Vhaeyne, but that may be because he likes who he is as a person enough to not feel the need or desire to pretend to be someone else.
Where we are now, some agree, some don´t.
Question to you who disagree.
Why should a person that behaves bad enough to end up on a block or ignore list, be given levels of freedom in doing trades and buy materials from someone that has taken the block / ban action?
@Grihm
When you block/ignore someone you are not magically removing them from the world.
Because this is an open world game you will still have to see them, fight them, and maybe even party with them in the future.
What you are blocking/ignoring their chat. Most likely because of spam, but maybe because they annoyed you. Again, that player is still a person in the world that you are going to have to deal with moving forward.
You can't block/ignore behavior unless it is chat related.
If you choose not to trade with them manually that is on you, but just like the real world. If you set up a vending machine in a public place. Anyone can access it and there is nothing you can do about it.
Philosophically I am not against people whitelisting or blacklisting shops or vending machines in the real world or the game world. I just think it is an extra feature that could introduce more problems than it solves.
I think I also did a good job explaining why you would not want to sell anything that is really valuable in your automated vending machine. Those sales need to be manual so that you can know the party receiving those goods is someone who is not going to be your enemy or put them in the hands of your enemy.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
You seem very worried that we would have to see players we have blocked due to terrible behaviour, and thank you for that. Your concern is noted, but it will be up to us if that´s the case, and i would have no problem seeing a player i blocked or banned, because he or she cannot trade with me in any way shape or form...so my goal would be reached.
You are welcome to trade as you wish in your hub.
Blocking them does not prevent you from seeing them and does not prevent them from seeing your stall. It just prevents them from buying your stuff.
And, that is excellent RP.