Your thoughts on the target player base for AoC?

Watched Jahlon's take on the primary audience for AoC earlier today. The phrase 'AoC isn't for everyone' is pretty common across our discussions, so I'm curious on your thoughts on the question of 'Who is AoC made for?'

My 2 cents is that AoC is targeted toward a blend of orignal EQ/UO players, L2/Archage players, and the more hardcore WoW raiding/pvp players. A secondary target would be the casuals from FFXIV & BDO & maybe (?) the more mainstream WoW PvE / PvP guilds. I don't think it's relying on subs from WoW casuals (though I think it's possible these folks will flow in and out of the game).

What do you think? What are the implications of who you think the target player base is on core features?

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Enigmatic Sage

Okeydoke wrote: »

Oh my god it makes sense now. I didn't know that stuff Enigmatic Sage.

I have no idea if your serious or being sarcastic, lol.

Okeydoke

I'm being serious. Not gonna go into it though.

Enigmatic Sage

Okeydoke wrote: »

I'm being serious. Not gonna go into it though.

That's fair, I'll take your word on it

Ramirez

I think if they nail the node system and pk/criminal, economy, politics they will get alot of people playing old pxv mmorpgs, or waiting for one, and bring people from albion,eve, archeage , bdo , runescape and i believe can hit people from survival games like rust/ark

Sathrago

The reason why I would deem this game as "Promising" is because their game direction/stated goals cover a wide range of activities. If they follow through on what they are proclaiming to want in the game, the game will have the systems to cater to a wide range of players. Even those that do not like to be drawn into pvp and those that do not like to grind dungeons all day. If you build a system for each type of play and actually give it depth and attention it will blossom, attracting many players just for that part of the game.

Many games attempt to focus in on one type of content as their "cash cow" so to speak, causing all of the other areas of the game to lose potential and ultimately become bland or outright garbage. Ashes is doing the opposite in my opinion and that is it's best quality. The act of adding all these systems in without skimping on their design/depth creates a fuller world for players to explore and "live" in. I think this is where the true heart of MMOs lies, and ashes is attempting to capture that heart where so many have failed.

Sigtyr

I can only speak for myself but PvP is always number one for me. I don't care if it's tab or action. I've been a hardcore PvPper in Black Desert, Guild Wars 2, and Archeage and enjoyed all three. As long as it is balanced and competitive all combat is just different sides of the same coin. I always push myself to be in the top 1% of PvPers when I commit to an MMO, but I acknowledge that playing at the highest level in an MMO means that there are immense PvE grinds. This means that even though PvP is what I show up for, I still probably spend 80-90% of my time in PvE.

The two things that really turned me on to Ashes however are the nodes and the cosmetic only cash shop. The more I explore the wiki and learn about the nuances of the node systems, politics, religion, and guild activities the more hyped I become about this game. The idea of a constantly changing world, fighting tooth and nail to defend a node when losing can potentially mean losing my house, and being a major player in the rise and fall of guilds across my server excites me to no end.

HazardNumberSeven

I expect the PvP element of the game will turn off a lot of players who are just looking for a purely PvE experience, or ways to disable PvP, which can't be done in Ashes. I don't think that's a bad thing, because almost every other MMO caters to that crowd anyway.

People hoping to just PvE mindlessly without any risk of PvP will find that impossible to do.

Inversely I think some PvP hounds who are hoping for a purely PvP experience might also get bored once they realise they must PvE at times.

I feel like this game might be catering to the old Everquest crowd from Zek servers, Ultima Online before the PvE/PvP split and ArcheAge. AcheAge is legit a very good game, if you remove the p2w elements and if it had servers in OCE.

truelyyy

Also people forget original WoW had open world PvP and that game was very popular so it may not be as limiting to a target audience as people make out, especially when the corruption system etc are put in place which needs to be strongly punishing and works well as an anti-griefing mechanic.

Vhaeyne

@CROW3

Just finished watching the video by @Jahlon. I think it is a critically important question that I really want Intrepid to answer more precisely.

Ashes may be attracting players who are not in the "target audience". Which is fine, so long as they do not attract too many of the players outside the target audience. My fear being that the "target audience" may be
lost when these players ask for change that go against design principles that brought in the original target audience.

This was my reply to his video for "Who is the target audience?":

I think the target audience is people who enjoyed and loved games like: Lineage 2, EVE, SWG, and ArcheAge but want a more modern take on those games. What made those games great was the focus on open world PvP and risk vs reward. I love that ashes is trying to be a very niche game. I don't think they should try to expand their target audience. Just like PoE the cosmetic cash shop should be enough for the game to thrive.

I would like to think I am a member of the target audience. Three of my favorite MMORPGs of all times are listed in that quote.

I did not pull those games out of my ass. I pulled it from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB3tSJ95uYg&t=515s.

A major factor in my decision to support Ashes was Steven. You get a feel for his MMORPG likes and dislikes every time he talks. The love for Lineage 2 comes out every time he opens his mouth. I have made a drinking game out of it and got tore up. It's easy, every time Steven says Lineage 2 in an interview, you drink. Have fun.

While I think I am a part of the target audience and I worry about Ashes attracting too wide of an audience. I am not worried that Ashes will fail if it is a very niche game. Niche games like MO1, DDO, EQ1, EQ2, UO, and GW2 are all alive with new content updates and active player bases. Even FFXI had an update not too long ago. I don't think Ashes needs to worry about expanding the target audience. Especially now, when the game has not been given the chance to fail yet.

truelyyy

@Vhaeyne I'm pretty sure EQ 1 and GW2 were not a niche games

Vhaeyne

truely wrote: »

@Vhaeyne I'm pretty sure EQ 1 and GW2 were not a niche games

Surprise! They are now!

truelyyy

Vhaeyne wrote: »

truely wrote: »

@Vhaeyne I'm pretty sure EQ 1 and GW2 were not a niche games

Surprise! They are now!

Well they are really old, I mean GW2 is still large in the MMO sphere I certainly wouldn't call it niche. I watched one of those statistic videos that gives number of searches for games and GW2 was in the top 10 for a while because it's box cost only it has a fairly large audience.

Vhaeyne

truely wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

truely wrote: »

@Vhaeyne I'm pretty sure EQ 1 and GW2 were not a niche games

Surprise! They are now!

Well they are really old, I mean GW2 is still large in the MMO sphere I certainly wouldn't call it niche. I watched one of those statistic videos that gives number of searches for games and GW2 was in the top 10 for a while because it's box cost only it has a fairly large audience.

Was in the top 10 on a statistics video...
For a game that is in a niche genre...

You like GW2. I get it.

Much love to the GW2 crowd.

Do you have anything to say about my actual post?

truelyyy

@Vhaeyne the statistics video was across all video games not just MMORPGs hence it's not niche or at least not around the launch time

In regards to your post seems fine, I don't per se categorise players by what games they have played previously, I don't personally see that as a good way of seeing the whole potential target audience which I think is much bigger than that but it does show flavours of those games obviously transfers over to ashes.

Vhaeyne

truely wrote: »

@Vhaeyne the statistics video was across all video games not just MMORPGs hence it's not niche or at least not around the launch time

So you want to derail the thread with a conversation about how GW2 is not a niche game in your estimation...

Okay, link the video.

truelyyy

@Vhaeyne at 3mins30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU19OFZ0vz4&t=0s
also FFXIV isn't on there much and thats seen at a large MMORPG pop wise also

Vhaeyne

truely wrote: »

@Vhaeyne at 3mins30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU19OFZ0vz4&t=0s
also FFXIV isn't on there much and thats seen at a large MMORPG pop wise also

I could watch these great videos for hours. Good link.

GW2 had some interest for a few months and fell off the charts years ago.

Today the game is alive and well with a relatively small, but dedicated fanbase.

Seems niche AF to me. That is not a bad thing. Many of my favorite games are niche AF. Touhou for example.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Ashes may be attracting players who are not in the "target audience". Which is fine, so long as they do not attract too many of the players outside the target audience. My fear being that the "target audience" may be
lost when these players ask for change that go against design principles that brought in the original target audience.

I'm also somewhat concerned that the game may attempt to too many players that are not in it's actual market, but for a slightly different reason.

I am going to assume that Steven will not listen to people when they ask him for change that goes against what the game is. I admit there is no real reason to assume this right now, as all evidence points towards game altering changes being made at the first sign of potential disinterest.

However, I am making the assumption above and sticking with it.

What that means, however, is the game is going to attract a whole lot of players to it that are not the target audience, and who will not see the game bend to be more suited to them.

So, what that means is that this game is going to have a large number of people leave the game fairly early on.

That is going to lead to two situations that will feed off of each other.

The first is that players in the game will notice the population decline.
The second is that the game will have a lot of players talking about how shit the game is.

Now, even if you enjoy the game, sticking around after a massive drop in population on a PvP game is a tall order.

If you are considering the game post launch, you'll hear all the negative word of mouth, and if you opt to try it out anyway you will see the empty servers which will confirm that negative word of mouth as far as you are concerned.

I wouldn't want to predict what would happen after that, but the above is what I see happening if Intrepid don't start being more specific in their target audience.

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Ashes may be attracting players who are not in the "target audience". Which is fine, so long as they do not attract too many of the players outside the target audience. My fear being that the "target audience" may be
lost when these players ask for change that go against design principles that brought in the original target audience.

I'm also somewhat concerned that the game may attempt to too many players that are not in it's actual market, but for a slightly different reason.

I am going to assume that Steven will not listen to people when they ask him for change that goes against what the game is. I admit there is no real reason to assume this right now, as all evidence points towards game altering changes being made at the first sign of potential disinterest.

However, I am making the assumption above and sticking with it.

What that means, however, is the game is going to attract a whole lot of players to it that are not the target audience, and who will not see the game bend to be more suited to them.

So, what that means is that this game is going to have a large number of people leave the game fairly early on.

That is going to lead to two situations that will feed off of each other.

The first is that players in the game will notice the population decline.
The second is that the game will have a lot of players talking about how shit the game is.

Now, even if you enjoy the game, sticking around after a massive drop in population on a PvP game is a tall order.

If you are considering the game post launch, you'll hear all the negative word of mouth, and if you opt to try it out anyway you will see the empty servers which will confirm that negative word of mouth as far as you are concerned.

I wouldn't want to predict what would happen after that, but the above is what I see happening if Intrepid don't start being more specific in their target audience.

I agree with this as a worry. It's why I don't want to see them spool up too many servers at launch.

Just as we seen in that video @truely just linked. Games can have a massive spike in players in the first month and then a rapid decline.

In the case of Wildstar that decline was not manageable, but for GW2 it was. Which is why one of those games is still with us.

I have called serveral times for Intrepid to be more explicit about who the target audience is. I think if they were more upfront with this the initial spike in population would be more manageable. Open world games with PvP can not handle rapid player loss as you said.

Enigmatic Sage

@Vhaeyne there is a good chance that like minded players will group up not just at a node but their vassals too.
I'm not implying dramatic spike in a certain demographic per se, but there is a good chance for some nodes to be trading orientated, crafting, supporting each other as most alliances do.
As long as the participants are ok with the risk vs reward system, they could support each other regardless if one loses a node in the vassal chain.
I picture the game as more than just a 1 node vs 1 node as there is potential for multiple nodes to team up. From the different types of nodes ie military, scientific, divine, economic etc. it creates a good range to support multiple demographics within the broader demographic of PvX Node vs Node.
It's an evolved version of GvG.

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