Gaining experience will also slowly reduce a player's corruption score.[21]
That creates a fun kind of experience for the bounty hunters to try to catch you while you're working it off.[21] – Steven Sharif
A quest may be utilized to reduce the player kill (PK) count of a corrupt player in order for them to accumulate less corruption score in the future.[23][22]
This is a design shift from a religious quest being used to directly reduce the corruption score.[24]
Corruption duration is reduced in military nodes.[25]
Well yeah you get the corruption and you pay consequences no matter what. Increased risk of being attacked, having to work it off, can't run to town and use storage etc.
But theoretically, in regards to Noaani's example, you could kill someone at a grind spot and just continue to grind at the spot and work off the corruption without being attacked or hunted down, thus in a way "getting away with it."
I get your point though, there were still consequences for it regardless.
You won't "get away with it". Can't avoid Corruption.
come now Dygz. he's not saying that corruption literally wont affect his character. He's talking about finding pockets of secluded or otherwise advantageous locations that can make for good killing areas so that you can work off the corruption before someone reaches you to take care of you.
You won't "get away with it". Can't avoid Corruption.
come now Dygz. he's not saying that corruption literally wont affect his character. He's talking about finding pockets of secluded or otherwise advantageous locations that can make for good killing areas so that you can work off the corruption before someone reaches you to take care of you.
It's like Plato's allegory. Those who have not seen anything like the Karma system have trouble comprehending anything based on it. All this man has seen is shadows on the cave wall, and you are trying to explain colors to him. It is not an easy task...
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
3
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Well yeah you get the corruption and you pay consequences no matter what. Increased risk of being attacked, having to work it off, can't run to town and use storage etc.
If you pay consequences, you don't "get away with it".
Not caring about paying the consequences is different.
I expect my Zombie PK alts to not care about the consequences, since the entire point of those alts is to accrue as many consequences as possible.
Well yeah you get the corruption and you pay consequences no matter what. Increased risk of being attacked, having to work it off, can't run to town and use storage etc.
If you pay consequences, you don't "get away with it".
If I see you standing at a grind spot that I am about to grind for a while at, and kill you because it's you, if I grind away that corruption before anyone else comes by, I got away with it.
It's like the old tree falling in a forest argument - but in this case it is; if I work off corruption before another player even sees that I have corruption, did I ever have corruption?
In this specific case, I am not slowed down at all by having corruption, I don't have to do anything different to what I was already planning on doing, and the next time a player sees me, I have no corruption.
If that is not "getting away with it" in your mind, then maybe you should get your parents to ask for a refund on your schooling.
What gear will you wear on your "pk alts"?
Without good gear you wont deal dmg.
Ill turn around and kill you with one shot instead of letting you pk me.
Now if you want to carry around good gear, in order to manage to pk somebody, expect to lose it.
Unless ofc you manage to burn your corruption points.
There is no such thing as pk alts.
0
Options
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2021
Whatever gear is on them when they become a zombie - until the gear rots off.
I don't care how much damage zombies deal.
My zombie alts probably would not be trying to PK you. More likely you would be trying to kill my zombie alt...and succeeding. Which is great. Players are supposed to kill monsters.
Why would I want to carry around good gear on a zombie alt??
Whatever gear is on a zombie alt will be OK to lose. Obviously.
Mmmm hmmn.
Zombie alts don't fit your playstyle, so they don't exist.
You can believe the Earth is flat if you want to.
Whatever gear is on them when they become a zombie - until the gear rots off.
I don't care how much damage zombies deal.
My zombie alts probably would not be trying to PK you. More likely you would be trying to kill my zombie alt...and succeeding. Which is great. Players are supposed to kill monsters.
Why would I want to carry around good gear on a zombie alt??
Whatever gear is on a zombie alt will be OK to lose. Obviously.
Mmmm hmmn.
Zombie alts don't fit your playstyle, so they don't exist.
You can believe the Earth is flat if you want to.
Zombie alts won't exist because people like you will get bored of them very quickly.
Your zombie alt is likely to only ever gain corruption by attacking a friend of yours that doesn't fight back. You are not going to be geared or skilled enough to actually cause any other player to think that the best thing for them to do is to remain a non-combatant so you take a higher penalty - as they would also take a higher penalty.
So, all your "zombie alt" is going to do is cheese corruption, then go around annoying people for a few minutes, get killed, lose that corruption and then you'll find something else to do and not bother with that alt again for weeks/months, if at all.
What gear will you wear on your "pk alts"?
Without good gear you wont deal dmg.
Ill turn around and kill you with one shot instead of letting you pk me.
Now if you want to carry around good gear, in order to manage to pk somebody, expect to lose it.
Unless ofc you manage to burn your corruption points.
There is no such thing as pk alts.
uh.... I believe it's too early to go declaring something like this. What if on release the classes are unbalanced to a degree that level difference and or gear is less of a factor in killing a single player? Those things just are not tested yet. For all we know you could run around as a ranger with really crappy gear but win most 1v1 fights vs melee classes due to superior kiting abilities.
uh.... I believe it's too early to go declaring something like this. What if on release the classes are unbalanced to a degree that level difference and or gear is less of a factor in killing a single player? Those things just are not tested yet. For all we know you could run around as a ranger with really crappy gear but win most 1v1 fights vs melee classes due to superior kiting abilities.
It is too early to know for sure, but I would speculate that George is right this time.
We have this quote to say otherwise:
Gear has approximately a 40-50% influence on a player's overall power in the game
I just don't see how that is possible. This means that at cap, there would only be a 10% power increase from unenchanted shit tier gear to over enchanted BiS...
Unless I am reading this wrong because to me, it sounds like if you are wearing shit gear it's 40% of your power and the best possible gear brings you up to 50%. That just does not seem very likely.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
0
Options
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Ah.. then question on this one.. L2 gear and level mattered.. NW it appears gear and level matter but a skilled lower level has a good possibility to kill a non-skilled higher level.. I am hoping very much skill comes into it more than gear or level grade.. what is the consensus on the direction it is currently heading?
Ah.. then question on this one.. L2 gear and level mattered.. NW it appears gear and level matter but a skilled lower level has a good possibility to kill a non-skilled higher level.. I am hoping very much skill comes into it more than gear or level grade.. what is the consensus on the direction it is currently heading?
If they want to have a system in which gear has valuable, it has to be worth more than 40-50% of player power.
I would love to see something like:
skill:0-33%
levels/build:0-33%
gear:0-33%
I can't say where It's going to land, but gear has to be bigger than 10%.
Dying removes a significant portion of a player's corruption score.[22]
Super duper serious gankers will probably have a second account with a vpn and have their secondary account kill clear their main after a long days gank.
Will this be against the rules? Maybe. Will they get caught? Probably not for a good long while.
Dying removes a significant portion of a player's corruption score.[22]
Super duper serious gankers will probably have a second account with a vpn and have their secondary account kill clear their main after a long days gank.
Will this be against the rules? Maybe. Will they get caught? Probably not for a good long while.
The only part of this I don't see being a thing in Ashes is the VPN.
The rest of it will 100% be how a lot of people go about PK'ing.
0
Options
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2021
If it is frightfully easy to get to max level quickly, which it is looking like, then pk alts look quite promising.
But to be honest, pk`ing end game in L2 had gravity and a thrill on the main and not an alt. And quite a bit of stress when unintended and a great risk such that it was done with considerable care. For gear that took me 9-12months of playing the market to afford, there was no way I was going to lose it on a whim. And when I did pk, I knew too well that should I die and key gear was dropped I would have to play an alt for 4-6 months and grind and play the market to replace it.
I think those that played L2, this pretty similar to the outcomes here. But end game the adrenaline is what makes the game.
I sincerely hope making money is hard, leveling speed is somewhat throttled.
Most People think it will be a PvP game, but after careful consideration it is more of a PvE game. Don't get me wrong. Castle sieges, open world pvp exist, but one is the endgame content, as in other games, and the other only gives you material with the risk of losing everything.(haha no reward for me to play lotto )
For me it will be about leveling the skill tree, exploring and farming areas and killing raid bosses. Maybe, but very unlikely, to become a city mayor. Breeding, fishing and other activities that you do on the side.
Most People think it will be a PvP game, but after careful consideration it is more of a PvE game. Don't get me wrong. Castle sieges, open world pvp exist, but one is the endgame content, as in other games, and the other only gives you material with the risk of losing everything.(haha no reward for me to play lotto )
Ah.. then question on this one.. L2 gear and level mattered.. NW it appears gear and level matter but a skilled lower level has a good possibility to kill a non-skilled higher level.. I am hoping very much skill comes into it more than gear or level grade.. what is the consensus on the direction it is currently heading?
Corruption score is based on level difference, so it seems as though level will play a significant factor.
0
Options
bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Leveling is estimated to be 45 days at 4-6 hours a day. Not really easy.
When dieing as corrupted you spawn at a random spwn point not the closet. There will be no soul run back to your body. Thinking you will be able to gank your main to burn corruption over and over in one spot is hopeful thinking.
Next is the penalties for going corrupted death is 4x normal penalties. What this looks like at max level with out level loss remains to be seen.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
It is too early to know for sure, but I would speculate that George is right this time.
We have this quote to say otherwise:
Gear has approximately a 40-50% influence on a player's overall power in the game
I just don't see how that is possible. This means that at cap, there would only be a 10% power increase from unenchanted shit tier gear to over enchanted BiS...
Unless I am reading this wrong because to me, it sounds like if you are wearing shit gear it's 40% of your power and the best possible gear brings you up to 50%. That just does not seem very likely.
What we saw from alpha 1 was that gear had a really big impact. I know, game isn't balanced at all or anything yet in A1. But when a player in legendary gear faced off against a player in the quest epic gear, the difference was pretty damn big. Player crafted epics were also significantly better than the quest epics actually.
I can definitely see the 40-50% quote end up being true unless A1 gear balancing was a complete fluke and unintended.
I read the 40-50% quote two ways. Either it's naked vs. BIS gear being 50%, or it's basic white gear vs. BIS being 50% power difference.
Super duper serious gankers will probably have a second account with a vpn and have their secondary account kill clear their main after a long days gank.
Depends on development time and willingness to deal with it. Banning VPN usage isn't that hard. By tying account to limited number of IP addresses. "But I'll just make bunch of accounts" - also not that easy if we tie login with trusted oauth service providers. Or imposing stronger safety garuntees on flagged accounts which seem to have suspicious activity.
It takes times, but measures for more strict moderation are possible. And I argue are even necessary from day one to start forming proper culture of players around the game. As well as maintaining it's integrity across the board.
As for target audience. I think the game promises to offer something for players of all stripes. There is some churn about "hardcore real old school mmo with dangerous world pvp" and blablabla. I fail to read that into what's being said about the game really.
What I'm particularly intrigued is that of how node system will be developed. As it seems, different nodes will be able to cater to different type of players who have varied focus of what they like and how they like to play their game.
For example, I would like to see many ways to get power / force in the game world. Even through co-op questing PvE content (imagine node having like inner laws of not tolerating guild competition of the same node for example, seeing it as a crime against it's own citizens or something). As well as some nodes being more about survival of the fittest type of deal where aggressive competing at expense of others is encouraged. And perhaps others who do a bit of both through other supporting system like trading and perhaps hiring mercs or something to bolster their ranks. Ain't that be an interesting social experiment of it's own trying to see which 'community' or node succeeds the most? And hopefully during the game lifecycle we balance them all out to some extent.
But it's first time we can have different type of players competing in different ways on the same server to my knowledge. And that's one of the main aspects which is why I'm so excited about the game.
I read the 40-50% quote two ways. Either it's naked vs. BIS gear being 50%, or it's basic white gear vs. BIS being 50% power difference.
Yeah. It's not super clear to me. As long as the difference between white and BiS is high enough to make BiS worth getting, I am happy. Gear needs value.
I read the 40-50% quote two ways. Either it's naked vs. BIS gear being 50%, or it's basic white gear vs. BIS being 50% power difference.
Yeah. It's not super clear to me. As long as the difference between white and BiS is high enough to make BiS worth getting, I am happy. Gear needs value.
Legendary equipment will have a roughly 6-12% improvement in base stats, subject to testing and balancing.[120]
We got the 'subject to testing' caveat, but this is about normal. 6-7 Tiers of gear, 6-7% improvement over the tier before it, so someone who puts in no work at all can't stand up to someone who spent money, and someone who spent only average money can't stand up to someone who has BiS or Legendary without significantly more skill or understanding.
BiS Non-Legendary vs Legendary though, because of how these games work, will probably border very much on a fair fight, with the Legendary likely to give the player holding it 'win by longevity', which is the 'standard'.
I.e. if both players play equally well, it's as close as a mirror match normally is, but the Legendary holder has some slight bonus that keeps them alive for 5 seconds longer, assuming they make no obvious mistakes. Idk what they will do, though, just saying what the 'competitive design standard' that most games start from, is.
I read the 40-50% quote two ways. Either it's naked vs. BIS gear being 50%, or it's basic white gear vs. BIS being 50% power difference.
Yeah. It's not super clear to me. As long as the difference between white and BiS is high enough to make BiS worth getting, I am happy. Gear needs value.
Legendary equipment will have a roughly 6-12% improvement in base stats, subject to testing and balancing.[120]
We got the 'subject to testing' caveat, but this is about normal. 6-7 Tiers of gear, 6-7% improvement over the tier before it, so someone who puts in no work at all can't stand up to someone who spent money, and someone who spent only average money can't stand up to someone who has BiS or Legendary without significantly more skill or understanding.
BiS Non-Legendary vs Legendary though, because of how these games work, will probably border very much on a fair fight, with the Legendary likely to give the player holding it 'win by longevity', which is the 'standard'.
I.e. if both players play equally well, it's as close as a mirror match normally is, but the Legendary holder has some slight bonus that keeps them alive for 5 seconds longer, assuming they make no obvious mistakes. Idk what they will do, though, just saying what the 'competitive design standard' that most games start from, is.
I rewatched that clip from the quote. My favorite part was where Jeff says, "Because it is a PvP game...".
That aside, it sounds like they are on the right track. 6-7% per tier sounds good... +/- some % from over enchanting.
Comments
That creates a fun kind of experience for the bounty hunters to try to catch you while you're working it off.[21] – Steven Sharif
A quest may be utilized to reduce the player kill (PK) count of a corrupt player in order for them to accumulate less corruption score in the future.[23][22]
This is a design shift from a religious quest being used to directly reduce the corruption score.[24]
Corruption duration is reduced in military nodes.[25]
Any serious pker will get good at mob washing.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
But theoretically, in regards to Noaani's example, you could kill someone at a grind spot and just continue to grind at the spot and work off the corruption without being attacked or hunted down, thus in a way "getting away with it."
I get your point though, there were still consequences for it regardless.
come now Dygz. he's not saying that corruption literally wont affect his character. He's talking about finding pockets of secluded or otherwise advantageous locations that can make for good killing areas so that you can work off the corruption before someone reaches you to take care of you.
It's like Plato's allegory. Those who have not seen anything like the Karma system have trouble comprehending anything based on it. All this man has seen is shadows on the cave wall, and you are trying to explain colors to him. It is not an easy task...
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Not caring about paying the consequences is different.
I expect my Zombie PK alts to not care about the consequences, since the entire point of those alts is to accrue as many consequences as possible.
It's like the old tree falling in a forest argument - but in this case it is; if I work off corruption before another player even sees that I have corruption, did I ever have corruption?
In this specific case, I am not slowed down at all by having corruption, I don't have to do anything different to what I was already planning on doing, and the next time a player sees me, I have no corruption.
If that is not "getting away with it" in your mind, then maybe you should get your parents to ask for a refund on your schooling.
Without good gear you wont deal dmg.
Ill turn around and kill you with one shot instead of letting you pk me.
Now if you want to carry around good gear, in order to manage to pk somebody, expect to lose it.
Unless ofc you manage to burn your corruption points.
There is no such thing as pk alts.
I don't care how much damage zombies deal.
My zombie alts probably would not be trying to PK you. More likely you would be trying to kill my zombie alt...and succeeding. Which is great. Players are supposed to kill monsters.
Why would I want to carry around good gear on a zombie alt??
Whatever gear is on a zombie alt will be OK to lose. Obviously.
Mmmm hmmn.
Zombie alts don't fit your playstyle, so they don't exist.
You can believe the Earth is flat if you want to.
Zombie alts won't exist because people like you will get bored of them very quickly.
Your zombie alt is likely to only ever gain corruption by attacking a friend of yours that doesn't fight back. You are not going to be geared or skilled enough to actually cause any other player to think that the best thing for them to do is to remain a non-combatant so you take a higher penalty - as they would also take a higher penalty.
So, all your "zombie alt" is going to do is cheese corruption, then go around annoying people for a few minutes, get killed, lose that corruption and then you'll find something else to do and not bother with that alt again for weeks/months, if at all.
uh.... I believe it's too early to go declaring something like this. What if on release the classes are unbalanced to a degree that level difference and or gear is less of a factor in killing a single player? Those things just are not tested yet. For all we know you could run around as a ranger with really crappy gear but win most 1v1 fights vs melee classes due to superior kiting abilities.
It is too early to know for sure, but I would speculate that George is right this time.
We have this quote to say otherwise:
I just don't see how that is possible. This means that at cap, there would only be a 10% power increase from unenchanted shit tier gear to over enchanted BiS...
Unless I am reading this wrong because to me, it sounds like if you are wearing shit gear it's 40% of your power and the best possible gear brings you up to 50%. That just does not seem very likely.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
If they want to have a system in which gear has valuable, it has to be worth more than 40-50% of player power.
I would love to see something like:
skill:0-33%
levels/build:0-33%
gear:0-33%
I can't say where It's going to land, but gear has to be bigger than 10%.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Super duper serious gankers will probably have a second account with a vpn and have their secondary account kill clear their main after a long days gank.
Will this be against the rules? Maybe. Will they get caught? Probably not for a good long while.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
The only part of this I don't see being a thing in Ashes is the VPN.
The rest of it will 100% be how a lot of people go about PK'ing.
But to be honest, pk`ing end game in L2 had gravity and a thrill on the main and not an alt. And quite a bit of stress when unintended and a great risk such that it was done with considerable care. For gear that took me 9-12months of playing the market to afford, there was no way I was going to lose it on a whim. And when I did pk, I knew too well that should I die and key gear was dropped I would have to play an alt for 4-6 months and grind and play the market to replace it.
I think those that played L2, this pretty similar to the outcomes here. But end game the adrenaline is what makes the game.
I sincerely hope making money is hard, leveling speed is somewhat throttled.
For me it will be about leveling the skill tree, exploring and farming areas and killing raid bosses. Maybe, but very unlikely, to become a city mayor. Breeding, fishing and other activities that you do on the side.
Basically everything you said is horribly wrong or misleading. Please read https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP
Corruption score is based on level difference, so it seems as though level will play a significant factor.
When dieing as corrupted you spawn at a random spwn point not the closet. There will be no soul run back to your body. Thinking you will be able to gank your main to burn corruption over and over in one spot is hopeful thinking.
Next is the penalties for going corrupted death is 4x normal penalties. What this looks like at max level with out level loss remains to be seen.
What we saw from alpha 1 was that gear had a really big impact. I know, game isn't balanced at all or anything yet in A1. But when a player in legendary gear faced off against a player in the quest epic gear, the difference was pretty damn big. Player crafted epics were also significantly better than the quest epics actually.
I can definitely see the 40-50% quote end up being true unless A1 gear balancing was a complete fluke and unintended.
I read the 40-50% quote two ways. Either it's naked vs. BIS gear being 50%, or it's basic white gear vs. BIS being 50% power difference.
Depends on development time and willingness to deal with it. Banning VPN usage isn't that hard. By tying account to limited number of IP addresses. "But I'll just make bunch of accounts" - also not that easy if we tie login with trusted oauth service providers. Or imposing stronger safety garuntees on flagged accounts which seem to have suspicious activity.
It takes times, but measures for more strict moderation are possible. And I argue are even necessary from day one to start forming proper culture of players around the game. As well as maintaining it's integrity across the board.
As for target audience. I think the game promises to offer something for players of all stripes. There is some churn about "hardcore real old school mmo with dangerous world pvp" and blablabla. I fail to read that into what's being said about the game really.
What I'm particularly intrigued is that of how node system will be developed. As it seems, different nodes will be able to cater to different type of players who have varied focus of what they like and how they like to play their game.
For example, I would like to see many ways to get power / force in the game world. Even through co-op questing PvE content (imagine node having like inner laws of not tolerating guild competition of the same node for example, seeing it as a crime against it's own citizens or something). As well as some nodes being more about survival of the fittest type of deal where aggressive competing at expense of others is encouraged. And perhaps others who do a bit of both through other supporting system like trading and perhaps hiring mercs or something to bolster their ranks. Ain't that be an interesting social experiment of it's own trying to see which 'community' or node succeeds the most? And hopefully during the game lifecycle we balance them all out to some extent.
But it's first time we can have different type of players competing in different ways on the same server to my knowledge. And that's one of the main aspects which is why I'm so excited about the game.
Yeah. It's not super clear to me. As long as the difference between white and BiS is high enough to make BiS worth getting, I am happy. Gear needs value.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Legendary equipment will have a roughly 6-12% improvement in base stats, subject to testing and balancing.[120]
We got the 'subject to testing' caveat, but this is about normal. 6-7 Tiers of gear, 6-7% improvement over the tier before it, so someone who puts in no work at all can't stand up to someone who spent money, and someone who spent only average money can't stand up to someone who has BiS or Legendary without significantly more skill or understanding.
BiS Non-Legendary vs Legendary though, because of how these games work, will probably border very much on a fair fight, with the Legendary likely to give the player holding it 'win by longevity', which is the 'standard'.
I.e. if both players play equally well, it's as close as a mirror match normally is, but the Legendary holder has some slight bonus that keeps them alive for 5 seconds longer, assuming they make no obvious mistakes. Idk what they will do, though, just saying what the 'competitive design standard' that most games start from, is.
I rewatched that clip from the quote. My favorite part was where Jeff says, "Because it is a PvP game...".
That aside, it sounds like they are on the right track. 6-7% per tier sounds good... +/- some % from over enchanting.
Loots good so far.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.