Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
@insomnia luckily we have a really smart and intelligent person with us in this thread that can in great detail explain to us that are not as bright exactly where that line goes, what is winning and what is not. Beacuse if something isn't PAY to win there has to be ways OF winning by not paying. What are those ways? Thank you!
You're attempting to take an understood concept of P2W - which is about short-cutting linear progression via real currency - and speciously correlating that 'win' to some hyper-subjective concept like 'fun.' So you can move the goal posts wherever you want, but you're just playing silly games imo.
Anything else is a personal goal, and that doesn't count in terms of winning.
Is that a bright enough line for you?
They do have a different definition of "winning". The key is that people don't get to make up their own personal definitions and then chastise the developer for not abiding by them. I mean, they can do that, but they look stupid when they do.
There is a pretty clear definition of what "pay to win" is, and when a game developer claims that they will avoid it, then you know what they mean. If you try to pull some stunt like trying to change the definition of "pay" and/or "win" to something that isn't the industry standard, nobody is going to support you because you're out of your mind.
Why don't you declare that kale is meat and try to organize a boycott of a vegetarian restaurant and see how far you get.
Now you are just being a troll. But you were that to being with, with the topic
😳😳😳
Please further explain what your understanding of what p2w has been/is.
Edit: So you don't agree that if something enhances the player experience its a form of p2w?
And also, yeah how dare I bring in terms lite having fun in games, lol . That is almost entirely the purpose of games, which is kind of the difference between sports and games, right?
What looks good, is a personal oppinion. So not really
Just do an internet search on the definition of pay-to-win, @Orym, and paste it in your thread here.
That will show other forum-goers you aren't evading the topic.
According to Cyberdefinitions.com:
"PTW is used in gaming with the meaning "Pay to Win" to refer to games that allow players to purchase items or abilities (e.g., more powerful weapons, additional health points) that give them an advantage in the game, either over other players or NPCs (Non-Player Characters).
P2W is a very controversial aspect of gaming, especially in MP (Multiplayer) games. Many players strongly object to people being able to pay to trump their own hard-earned experience or superior skills."
Key words here are advantage. Could be argued that it is an advantage of looking better + not having to do any content= time saver. And it also falls under the fact that it does "trump their own hard-earned experience".
According to someone on Urbandictionary:
"The sad proof that gaming is in its most dead and soul-less state so far.
Several games nowadays have the option to pay real money to enhance the experience of the player, often frustrating him unless he pays up.
Good ways to milk players of the money they thought they wouldn't spend in the game include: energy bars that reduce the time he can devote to his game, huge timers that need to be reduced for the player to be able to continue his journey, better gear to deal with players that don't want to pay, and, the most common one, the existence of a currency in the game that can't be earned without your credit card."
As i said before aswell the fact that you can "pay real money to enhance the experience of the player" does more than enough apply to all kinds of items you can only get by paying.
I don't think this P2W thing is as clear as you guys make it out to be. But please continue the conversation and let me know what you don't agree with, because im not convinced im totally wrong just yet
OK, argue it.
My point with this is that the point of doing content is to gain rewards to do more difficult content. The rewards of one set of content acting as a key for the next set of content.
As such, there is no content that you need to do for appearance.
Now, there may well be an appearance item you like the look of. However, since appearance is subjective, it is as likely that the appearance you like would be on early gear as it is that it will be on harder to obtain gear.
If you then opt to do content to get that look that the content offered, good for you.
On the other hand, if you just buy a look off the store and don't do that content, that is a choice you can make. Since you weren't going to do that content for the reason the content exists, it doesn't matter if you still don't do it.
If you wish to buy appearances and not do content, have at it.
If you want to do content and have more appearance, each with more variety, have at it.
If monetized visual progression shatters your mojo, that ship sailed about 15 years ago. If you want to have a conversation about that, great.
But this p2w point you’re attempting is just awkward origami. AoC isn’t Project Runway.
How did this conversation in any way benefit the community? Traditionally, play to win are things that effect the combat of a game which give a player an advantage that the rest of the community can't obtain. Like in Black Desert Online you can give your characters levels making yourself much more powerful that another player couldn't grind in time. So, I pay $10,000 to make my character level 200 which would take 20 years to obtain through quests while everyone else is level 40. I laugh at your poor people as I triumph not through skill, but based on the fact there isn't a level cap.
A second concept that people don't think about and isn't rarely discussed is your actual time as a person. I like doing raids, quests, and crafting; however, ask yourself this question. If it takes 100 hours to obtain an item and you earn $10 an hour in real life, then that item is worth $1,000 because you could have been working overtime or working a second job earning that money. You are trading the potential of earning real money for the value of getting an imaginary item by having to grind many hours for it. Selling the shiny item on the store for $40 could make you $960 richer. Don't get me wrong. It is fun to play video games and unplug from the stresses of real life. I also like the satisfaction of grinding for a legendary weapon and being in the minority of players who have it. Having an item that only 1 in 5000 players have is a cool feeling. I like transmog, but if you did a survey, I think more people play an MMO for the quests, story, raid, combat, etc. I don't most people would consider cosmetics end game. Of course, the great thing about an MMO is you can set your own personal goals so winning is whatever you personally define it as.
Because that’s what the definition is. That’s what it means in the video game industry. There are clowns who make up their own definition divorced from reality so that they have something to whine about.