I agree with autor. But cosmetic MTX make price for suscribe lower. But if ur ask my will i make servers - reservations for those who buy pre order, and where cosmetic is avaleble in shop with lower sub price. But some services without cosmetic have a 5$ more sub price. Its will be excelent. Who want to buy his look in shop, can do it and thear will be enought of players who just want pay less look usual. and it will be reward for thoose who already buy preorder. And for usual players should be servers without any transaction.
I agree with autor. But cosmetic MTX make price for suscribe lower. But if ur ask my will i make servers - reservations for those who buy pre order, and where cosmetic is avaleble in shop with lower sub price. But some services without cosmetic have a 5$ more sub price. Its will be excelent. Who want to buy his look in shop, can do it and thear will be enought of players who just want pay less look usual. and it will be reward for thoose who already buy preorder. And for usual players should be servers without any transaction.
This is just needless segregation of the player base.
There will be a number of regions with enough of a population to support only a single server, and Intrepid have already said no to alternate ruleset servers - so having different different servers based on cosmetics is just odd.
Well, tbh, Steven claiming the ingame earnable cosmetics / gear appearance will rival the shop cosmetics sounds pretty far fetched tbh. There's a few things I can believe but that aspect sounds like it got sucked out of a thumb
I agree with autor. But cosmetic MTX make price for suscribe lower. But if ur ask my will i make servers - reservations for those who buy pre order, and where cosmetic is avaleble in shop with lower sub price. But some services without cosmetic have a 5$ more sub price. Its will be excelent. Who want to buy his look in shop, can do it and thear will be enought of players who just want pay less look usual. and it will be reward for thoose who already buy preorder. And for usual players should be servers without any transaction.
This is just needless segregation of the player base.
There will be a number of regions with enough of a population to support only a single server, and Intrepid have already said no to alternate ruleset servers - so having different different servers based on cosmetics is just odd.
Yep, i understend thet this question is loked, but if we tolk about dreammmo, thet what i want, and most part of players will agree with me )
0
Options
AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Well, tbh, Steven claiming the ingame earnable cosmetics / gear appearance will rival the shop cosmetics sounds pretty far fetched tbh. There's a few things I can believe but that aspect sounds like it got sucked out of a thumb
It's not at all far-fetched, but it's also (potentially) meaningless. As I've pointed out in any of these discussions I've participated in, it's impossible to qualify the value of a cosmetic appearance.
For example, I think this is hideous:
And I think this is awesome (and I bought it):
Someone else might think the opposite; that the first item is fabulous and the second one is plain. So how can you say that one "rivals" the other?
The only way that I can see that Steven's promise is objectively fulfilled, is if cosmetics earned in-game are extremely similar to what you get in the shop. For example, imagine that you can earn that first set, except it has more of an autumn (orange, red, brown) color scheme. Clearly it is not the same, but it could be considered equivalent.
. Don’t give me the reasons why you claim they need MTX to develop the game. That’s BS. The sub fee more than pays for the game and the continued development.
So you are 100% wrong on this and here is the discussion on why
I don't really have a problem with them selling cosmetics during early development. It's a good way to give players some "content" and a good way for players to show support for the game and the developers. (And once the game is released it will become a proof of early development supporter)
However, I would very much so be against a in-game shop once the game have been fully released. Yes the game maybe good and a cosmetic shop won't hurt the game from the beginning, but after a few years they need to up the cosmetics more and more and finally they would be in the same position as retail WoW is today...
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Let players earn gear and variance of the same gear IN GAME, not from a cosmetic shop.
0
Options
AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
However, I would very much so be against a in-game shop once the game have been fully released. Yes the game maybe good and a cosmetic shop won't hurt the game from the beginning, but after a few years they need to up the cosmetics more and more and finally they would be in the same position as retail WoW is today...
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Let players earn gear and variance of the same gear IN GAME, not from a cosmetic shop.
Too bad, because the shop ain't going anywhere.
I've seen this same ridiculous suggestion before that somehow WoW is harmed due to selling cosmetics. It's literally based on nothing. You might as well claim WoW was taken over by aliens from planet Zorglon and it has all been downhill since.
You're also under the mistaken assumption that the cosmetics in the shop are going to be better than what you earn in-game, which is not true. Their goal is to make them equivalent. So what are you worried about?
However, I would very much so be against a in-game shop once the game have been fully released. Yes the game maybe good and a cosmetic shop won't hurt the game from the beginning, but after a few years they need to up the cosmetics more and more and finally they would be in the same position as retail WoW is today...
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Let players earn gear and variance of the same gear IN GAME, not from a cosmetic shop.
Too bad, because the shop ain't going anywhere.
I've seen this same ridiculous suggestion before that somehow WoW is harmed due to selling cosmetics. It's literally based on nothing. You might as well claim WoW was taken over by aliens from planet Zorglon and it has all been downhill since.
You're also under the mistaken assumption that the cosmetics in the shop are going to be better than what you earn in-game, which is not true. Their goal is to make them equivalent. So what are you worried about?
I also do not like the fact that they are equivalent, it will devalue all the gear that one can gain via in-game means if that's the case.
Cosmetics shops may seem harmless in the beginning, but it will always evolve into something bad and hurt the game in the long run.
A lot of people like to farm gear just for the sake of having different gear sets and looking cool. If one can buy cosmetics, equal or not, will devalue that part of the game. People say that ashes isn't about looking cool or fashion, but people that do like that stuff are usually completionist which are the players that play the game the most.
Look at wow, back in the day you had players running the same dungeon over and over to get one specific mount, just to have it and show of. Today when you can buy mounts from the store and and get overwhelming amounts of mount easy, special rare mounts are no longer special. You don't care about other peoples mounts, you only care about what you have. And that is partially because of the in-game shop.
ESO is also a great example, looking cool comes down to cash shop costumes/mounts.
I'm not saying ashes will be like this at launch, I'm just saying that having an cash shop can, and probably will, lead to this.
A lot of people like to farm gear just for the sake of having different gear sets and looking cool. If one can buy cosmetics, equal or not, will devalue that part of the game. People say that ashes isn't about looking cool or fashion, but people that do like that stuff are usually completionist which are the players that play the game the most.
Look at wow, back in the day you had players running the same dungeon over and over to get one specific mount, just to have it and show of. Today when you can buy mounts from the store and and get overwhelming amounts of mount easy, special rare mounts are no longer special. You don't care about other peoples mounts, you only care about what you have. And that is partially because of the in-game shop.
ESO is also a great example, looking cool comes down to cash shop costumes/mounts.
I'm not saying ashes will be like this at launch, I'm just saying that having an cash shop can, and probably will, lead to this.
Not sure who all the 'people' are that you're referencing. Might be safer to just state your opinion as your opinion, which is valid on its own merit. WoW has had a cash-shop for well over a decade, and it has nothing to do with it's downfall. ESO has interesting in game armor as well, but again - it's all subjective.
A lot of people like to farm gear just for the sake of having different gear sets and looking cool. If one can buy cosmetics, equal or not, will devalue that part of the game. People say that ashes isn't about looking cool or fashion, but people that do like that stuff are usually completionist which are the players that play the game the most.
Look at wow, back in the day you had players running the same dungeon over and over to get one specific mount, just to have it and show of. Today when you can buy mounts from the store and and get overwhelming amounts of mount easy, special rare mounts are no longer special. You don't care about other peoples mounts, you only care about what you have. And that is partially because of the in-game shop.
ESO is also a great example, looking cool comes down to cash shop costumes/mounts.
I'm not saying ashes will be like this at launch, I'm just saying that having an cash shop can, and probably will, lead to this.
Not sure who all the 'people' are that you're referencing. Might be safer to just state your opinion as your opinion, which is valid on its own merit. WoW has had a cash-shop for well over a decade, and it has nothing to do with it's downfall. ESO has interesting in game armor as well, but again - it's all subjective.
That is true, i shouldn't speak for other people but people like asmongold and his viewers have had multiple transmog competition were they have a small competition on who have the best gear set.
It's also true that WoWs down fall wasn't because of the cash shop but it was the down fall of the games completionist community.
Game armor is very subjective but that makes the cash shop costumes even worse. Some people will like the cash shop costumes more than in-game armor, meaning that they would need to spend money go look as they want to. They don't need to spend hours and hours farming gear, no, they only need to swipe.
I agree with autor. But cosmetic MTX make price for suscribe lower. But if ur ask my will i make servers - reservations for those who buy pre order, and where cosmetic is avaleble in shop with lower sub price. But some services without cosmetic have a 5$ more sub price. Its will be excelent. Who want to buy his look in shop, can do it and thear will be enought of players who just want pay less look usual. and it will be reward for thoose who already buy preorder. And for usual players should be servers without any transaction.
This is just needless segregation of the player base.
There will be a number of regions with enough of a population to support only a single server, and Intrepid have already said no to alternate ruleset servers - so having different different servers based on cosmetics is just odd.
Yep, i understend thet this question is loked, but if we tolk about dreammmo, thet what i want, and most part of players will agree with me )
Actually, if you look over this thread and others like it, what you will see is that most players agree with Intrepid in this being an acceptable way to make a profit from the game.
The concept of visual progression in MMO's is an artificial concept that players have generated.
I agree with autor. But cosmetic MTX make price for suscribe lower. But if ur ask my will i make servers - reservations for those who buy pre order, and where cosmetic is avaleble in shop with lower sub price. But some services without cosmetic have a 5$ more sub price. Its will be excelent. Who want to buy his look in shop, can do it and thear will be enought of players who just want pay less look usual. and it will be reward for thoose who already buy preorder. And for usual players should be servers without any transaction.
This is just needless segregation of the player base.
There will be a number of regions with enough of a population to support only a single server, and Intrepid have already said no to alternate ruleset servers - so having different different servers based on cosmetics is just odd.
Yep, i understend thet this question is loked, but if we tolk about dreammmo, thet what i want, and most part of players will agree with me )
Actually, if you look over this thread and others like it, what you will see is that most players agree with Intrepid in this being an acceptable way to make a profit from the game.
The concept of visual progression in MMO's is an artificial concept that players have generated.
Visual progression is something that Intrepid have acknowledged and are developing. And all MMOs i have played have had Visual progression were high end gear looks much more powerful and interesting than low level gear.
Visual progression is something that Intrepid have acknowledged and are developing. And all MMOs i have played have had Visual progression were high end gear looks much more powerful and interesting than low level gear.
And yet people still have preferences as to what they think looks good.
This is why visual progression isn't a concept to develop around.
What those games you have played have actually done is developed specific looks, put them on top end gear and then basically told you that it looks good and you have just blindly accepted that.
I have yet to play a game where my favorite looking equipment in the whole game was later than about level 30 - but that is because I much prefer a somewhat realistic look, and top end gear seldom has that.
Visual progression is something that Intrepid have acknowledged and are developing. And all MMOs i have played have had Visual progression were high end gear looks much more powerful and interesting than low level gear.
And yet people still have preferences as to what they think looks good.
This is why visual progression isn't a concept to develop around.
What those games you have played have actually done is developed specific looks, put them on top end gear and then basically told you that it looks good and you have just blindly accepted that.
I have yet to play a game where my favorite looking equipment in the whole game was later than about level 30 - but that is because I much prefer a somewhat realistic look, and top end gear seldom has that.
That maybe true, and I agree with you that realistic looking gear sets do look awesome, and I think that ashes will have that type of realistic style to it's gear.
But as you say, we all have preferences and that makes the cash shop even more bad for the game. Some people farm and farm for a gear set (realistic or not) and then some random player can just swipe to buy a good looking set from the store. It's bad game design, at least after the game have been released.
Let's say they released a gardener gear set in the shop, that would be cool and something that probably could do. But wouldn't it be much more fun and rewarding go obtain that Gear via in-game farming and gathering?
After giving it a lot of thought, doing market research, and rolling my 20-sided dice I finally found a solution that can make everyone happy and end the debate once and for all. Intrepid just needs to do a license with Hello Kitty and then we can all feel sexy with our transmogs, have an appropriate level of self-esteem, and feel like winners. Now the cosmetic store is a good thing.
5
Options
mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Let's say they released a gardener gear set in the shop, that would be cool and something that probably could do. But wouldn't it be much more fun and rewarding go obtain that Gear via in-game farming and gathering?
To me, you still have this rewarding content since outfits are one piece. Yes, you can buy your generic gardener outfit from the store but you still are able to make your unique one by farming the individual components in the game and get that rewarding feeling while doing so. You just don't have to do it while looking like a baker or whatever mismatch of items the game gives you in the start.
Items also are valued for their rarity. Similar to brand name items in our world, someone wearing an easy to get costume from the store won't be seen the same as someone who is wearing something that his hard to get. Yes, the hard to get item also needs to look good to some standard but from what we know, that will be the case.
Let's say they released a gardener gear set in the shop, that would be cool and something that probably could do. But wouldn't it be much more fun and rewarding go obtain that Gear via in-game farming and gathering?
Not really. No.
There will still be looks that are only able to be obtained in game - and those specific looks will be the ones with flexibility to make it exactly how you want it. Cash shop cosmetics are all or nothing.
If you want to create a specific look, or if you want to show off to people that you spent time and effort in game on your look, you can do that. Cash shop cosmetics are just for people that want to look decent, but aren't all that concerned with anything else.
Currently it’s not considered “ruined” based on the assumption that
1) Few people (in proportion to the total population) will have these cosmetics
2) The quality of earnable cosmetics will, as a whole, match or surpass quality of these real money cosmetics
Personally I like what’s being offered, but I also think there has been too many cash-exclusive offerings, and that’s they’ve been too flamboyant for what will for many initial players be their starter mount. I’m just hoping they focus on in-game items once the game launches completely, while having a seasonal cycling shop (3-4 months) of consistent offerings. No FOMO bull that’s there to manipulate players
1
Options
AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There will still be looks that are only able to be obtained in game - and those specific looks will be the ones with flexibility to make it exactly how you want it. Cash shop cosmetics are all or nothing.
Costumes are, but you can buy clothing pieces in the shop too. I own a couple pairs of boots, a couple cloaks, a hat, a belt, a couple pairs of gloves.
There will still be looks that are only able to be obtained in game - and those specific looks will be the ones with flexibility to make it exactly how you want it. Cash shop cosmetics are all or nothing.
If you want to create a specific look, or if you want to show off to people that you spent time and effort in game on your look, you can do that. Cash shop cosmetics are just for people that want to look decent, but aren't all that concerned with anything else.
Comments
This is just needless segregation of the player base.
There will be a number of regions with enough of a population to support only a single server, and Intrepid have already said no to alternate ruleset servers - so having different different servers based on cosmetics is just odd.
Yep, i understend thet this question is loked, but if we tolk about dreammmo, thet what i want, and most part of players will agree with me )
It's not at all far-fetched, but it's also (potentially) meaningless. As I've pointed out in any of these discussions I've participated in, it's impossible to qualify the value of a cosmetic appearance.
For example, I think this is hideous:
And I think this is awesome (and I bought it):
Someone else might think the opposite; that the first item is fabulous and the second one is plain. So how can you say that one "rivals" the other?
The only way that I can see that Steven's promise is objectively fulfilled, is if cosmetics earned in-game are extremely similar to what you get in the shop. For example, imagine that you can earn that first set, except it has more of an autumn (orange, red, brown) color scheme. Clearly it is not the same, but it could be considered equivalent.
I recommend that members avoid investing energy into convincing others to change their preferences.
The title appears as an invitation for discussion, but the post and first response read as an opinion piece.
✌️
Holy crap. We need to get this fixed ASAP. Who has Steven's personal cell phone number? THE GAME'S VIBE IS AT STAKE!!!
This reminded me of my electrician friends trying to do vibration analysis on pumps and me saying I don't care...
So you are 100% wrong on this and here is the discussion on why
However, I would very much so be against a in-game shop once the game have been fully released. Yes the game maybe good and a cosmetic shop won't hurt the game from the beginning, but after a few years they need to up the cosmetics more and more and finally they would be in the same position as retail WoW is today...
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Let players earn gear and variance of the same gear IN GAME, not from a cosmetic shop.
I've seen this same ridiculous suggestion before that somehow WoW is harmed due to selling cosmetics. It's literally based on nothing. You might as well claim WoW was taken over by aliens from planet Zorglon and it has all been downhill since.
You're also under the mistaken assumption that the cosmetics in the shop are going to be better than what you earn in-game, which is not true. Their goal is to make them equivalent. So what are you worried about?
I also do not like the fact that they are equivalent, it will devalue all the gear that one can gain via in-game means if that's the case.
Cosmetics shops may seem harmless in the beginning, but it will always evolve into something bad and hurt the game in the long run.
A lot of people like to farm gear just for the sake of having different gear sets and looking cool. If one can buy cosmetics, equal or not, will devalue that part of the game. People say that ashes isn't about looking cool or fashion, but people that do like that stuff are usually completionist which are the players that play the game the most.
Look at wow, back in the day you had players running the same dungeon over and over to get one specific mount, just to have it and show of. Today when you can buy mounts from the store and and get overwhelming amounts of mount easy, special rare mounts are no longer special. You don't care about other peoples mounts, you only care about what you have. And that is partially because of the in-game shop.
ESO is also a great example, looking cool comes down to cash shop costumes/mounts.
I'm not saying ashes will be like this at launch, I'm just saying that having an cash shop can, and probably will, lead to this.
It's often great fun to go through "lower-level"-looking cosmetics to make a new toon an outfit that looks level-appropriate.
Not sure who all the 'people' are that you're referencing. Might be safer to just state your opinion as your opinion, which is valid on its own merit. WoW has had a cash-shop for well over a decade, and it has nothing to do with it's downfall. ESO has interesting in game armor as well, but again - it's all subjective.
That is true, i shouldn't speak for other people but people like asmongold and his viewers have had multiple transmog competition were they have a small competition on who have the best gear set.
It's also true that WoWs down fall wasn't because of the cash shop but it was the down fall of the games completionist community.
Game armor is very subjective but that makes the cash shop costumes even worse. Some people will like the cash shop costumes more than in-game armor, meaning that they would need to spend money go look as they want to. They don't need to spend hours and hours farming gear, no, they only need to swipe.
Actually, if you look over this thread and others like it, what you will see is that most players agree with Intrepid in this being an acceptable way to make a profit from the game.
The concept of visual progression in MMO's is an artificial concept that players have generated.
Visual progression is something that Intrepid have acknowledged and are developing. And all MMOs i have played have had Visual progression were high end gear looks much more powerful and interesting than low level gear.
This is why visual progression isn't a concept to develop around.
What those games you have played have actually done is developed specific looks, put them on top end gear and then basically told you that it looks good and you have just blindly accepted that.
I have yet to play a game where my favorite looking equipment in the whole game was later than about level 30 - but that is because I much prefer a somewhat realistic look, and top end gear seldom has that.
That maybe true, and I agree with you that realistic looking gear sets do look awesome, and I think that ashes will have that type of realistic style to it's gear.
But as you say, we all have preferences and that makes the cash shop even more bad for the game. Some people farm and farm for a gear set (realistic or not) and then some random player can just swipe to buy a good looking set from the store. It's bad game design, at least after the game have been released.
Let's say they released a gardener gear set in the shop, that would be cool and something that probably could do. But wouldn't it be much more fun and rewarding go obtain that Gear via in-game farming and gathering?
Items also are valued for their rarity. Similar to brand name items in our world, someone wearing an easy to get costume from the store won't be seen the same as someone who is wearing something that his hard to get. Yes, the hard to get item also needs to look good to some standard but from what we know, that will be the case.
Not really. No.
There will still be looks that are only able to be obtained in game - and those specific looks will be the ones with flexibility to make it exactly how you want it. Cash shop cosmetics are all or nothing.
If you want to create a specific look, or if you want to show off to people that you spent time and effort in game on your look, you can do that. Cash shop cosmetics are just for people that want to look decent, but aren't all that concerned with anything else.
They are the lazy way out.
1) Few people (in proportion to the total population) will have these cosmetics
2) The quality of earnable cosmetics will, as a whole, match or surpass quality of these real money cosmetics
Personally I like what’s being offered, but I also think there has been too many cash-exclusive offerings, and that’s they’ve been too flamboyant for what will for many initial players be their starter mount. I’m just hoping they focus on in-game items once the game launches completely, while having a seasonal cycling shop (3-4 months) of consistent offerings. No FOMO bull that’s there to manipulate players
im not sure where you got that info but youre wrong..
*edit*
im not sure if the link did the right time but at 6:32 u can see the dev changing his gear/skins piece by piece