Heh. This will be interesting for those of us who are just going to wander a bit before making any choices about node citizenship. I’d probably join a guild before signing my name to a node.
EU server?!
Sorry, Davey - I'm in NA.
Our guild caters to NA and EU.
How am I supposed to come to your tavern to service all my needs if we aren't on the same server?
[Guild] - Guild Officer Message of the day: To help the guild take down X-node, we ask of our members who are citizens of that node to refrain from participating to the defence. Anyone seen flagged as a defender during the event will be expelled.
This will absolutely be a thing.
I would hope that such guilds would be decent enough to supply their affected guild members with assistance towards relocating. I mean, if you are purposely trying to destroy a guild members house, it's the least you could do.
Nope. One server, but we have officers who are NA and EU. We will have raids, pvp, RP, sieges and try to incorporate players from multiple countries. I don't believe there are geographical restrictions. So, we can pick an EST or CST server and everyone in the guild can join that server. United States, Canada, Australia, England, etc., everyone is welcome.
Nope. One server, but we have officers who are NA and EU.
So, will it be an EU server meaning your NA players will miss out on sieges, guild and node wars, monster coin event and other such, or will it be an NA server, so EU players miss out on all of that?
Not sure if you are aware, but all of these things will only be able to happen in a region specific time slot, so either way, people in one area or the other will be missing out on half the game.
Heh. This will be interesting for those of us who are just going to wander a bit before making any choices about node citizenship. I’d probably join a guild before signing my name to a node.
Node membership supersedes guild membership makes sense imo.
It's not a bond issue here, but a stakes issue.
I mean while a player will likely be interacting more with guild members than with fellow node citizens / neighbors, and hence will likely have more ~friends~ in guild ...
Let's say a guild has most of its members in node A, and a handful in neighboring node B. Over time all members have invested significantly into their nodes & now own houses, freeholds, and large amount of lootable gatherable. One day the guild management decides to siege B & raze it to the ground for whatever reason.
it's probably natural for those members in B to just defect and join another guild (or start one themselves) more deeply rooted in B to help with defense unless the guild compensates them & helps them evacuate beforehand.
Node membership supersedes guild membership makes sense imo.
It's not a bond issue here, but a stakes issue.
I mean while a player will likely be interacting more with guild members than with fellow node citizens / neighbors, and hence will likely have more ~friends~ in guild ...
Let's say a guild has most of its members in node A, and a handful in neighboring node B. Over time all members have invested significantly into their nodes & now own houses, freeholds, and large amount of lootable gatherable. One day the guild management decides to siege B & raze it to the ground for whatever reason.
it's probably natural for those members in B to just defect and join another guild (or start one themselves) more deeply rooted in B to help with defense unless the guild compensates them & helps them evacuate beforehand.
I don't think this will happen.
Guilds will want members from many nodes. Members of guilds will want services from other nodes that guild members that are citizens of those nodes can assist with.
It is worth keeping in mind, the statement that node supersedes guild as a comment comes from a person whose idea of a guild is a collection of people that exist to help him achieve his goals. Once achieved, the guild is no longer of use. His ideas of a guild are drastically different to most of ours.
To him, his node citizenship is more important, because his guild is disposable.
Context is important, and behavior in previous games is context.
[Guild] - Guild Officer Message of the day: To help the guild take down X-node, we ask of our members who are citizens of that node to refrain from participating to the defence. Anyone seen flagged as a defender during the event will be expelled.
This will absolutely be a thing.
I would hope that such guilds would be decent enough to supply their affected guild members with assistance towards relocating. I mean, if you are purposely trying to destroy a guild members house, it's the least you could do.
If I remember correctly, you don't HAVE to destroy citizen housing after sieging a node, granted you may not be the only guild helping siege said node, I can see guilds organizing to have affected guild citizens that cooperated with them will get to keep their home at its current location or even be given priority/access of a new location in the current or new node they plan to further progress.
EDIT: Directed specifically at freeholds.
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
[Guild] - Guild Officer Message of the day: To help the guild take down X-node, we ask of our members who are citizens of that node to refrain from participating to the defence. Anyone seen flagged as a defender during the event will be expelled.
This will absolutely be a thing.
I would hope that such guilds would be decent enough to supply their affected guild members with assistance towards relocating. I mean, if you are purposely trying to destroy a guild members house, it's the least you could do.
If I remember correctly, you don't HAVE to destroy citizen housing after sieging a node, granted you may not be the only guild helping siege said node, I can see guilds organizing to have affected guild citizens that cooperated with them will get to keep their home at its current location or even be given priority/access of a new location in the current or new node they plan to further progress.
EDIT: Directed specifically at freeholds.
While it is true that you don't have to destroy houses, once a node us successfully sieged, any player can come along within the two hour window and destroy a freehold. You do not need to participate in the siege in order to destroy housing afterwards.
Regardless of whether the house is destroyed or not, if the node loses the siege, it is now a level 0 node.
There are certainly interesting consequences of having node citizenship superseding guild membership. Specifically, you would have situations where the game flags a player as fighting for node A even though they are actively working with their guild in node B. So, for example the player could, during a siege, hog vital defensive equipment or open the gate as node B rushes in. Or perhaps learn Node A's army composition and forward that information to their guild so they can plan accordingly ahead of time.
I'm not sure how node A would be able to counteract that. Sure, they could repeatedly kill players belonging to the opposing node over and over again, but unless there's a means to expel players I can potentially see this being very frustrating for players. Even with that, the player could simply leave the guild and rejoin when the conflict is over.
I can't see how node citizenship can be a stronger bond than guild. Every game I've played Guild=Family.
What other games have you played that have a Node system?
None. I just can't foresee me choosing node over guild.
You are correct that I don't know for sure until I've played Ashes.
A different kind of game (Mobile/bluestacks), but the HQ and outpost system in Nova Empire has some similarities with the Node system. As you level up those structures they cast more influence over adjacent solar systems, which determines which alliance (guild) owns each solar system.
This got me thinking. A big part of me agrees with you straight up. The group of folks I play mmos with has been together for like fifteen or sixteen years, and many times we've chosen guild over games. That said, if they choose not to play Ashes, my sense of loyalty to a guild v. my node may be different. If I like where I set up camp in that node, and that's the place I want to come back to after many a dangerous foray into the wilds, I may choose that sense of 'home' over a guild.
I guess we'll just see what happens.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I just can't foresee me choosing node over guild.
You are correct that I don't know for sure until I've played Ashes.
A different kind of game (Mobile/bluestacks), but the HQ and outpost system in Nova Empire has some similarities with the Node system. As you level up those structures they cast more influence over adjacent solar systems, which determines which alliance (guild) owns each solar system.
Right. But, what you wrote is: "I can't see how node citizenship can be a stronger bond than guild."
Ashes is an mmoRPG.
Players focused on the RP aspects may very well be playing from their characters' perspectives and interests, rather than the "player's" perspective and interests.
I'll have different character with different interests. Some will be in different guilds.
A couple will be in guilds that will have an alliance.
I'm not sure which guild(s) my "main" character will belong to. I know the desired Node Type is Scientific and Seems very likely that despite being Vek, he will want to belong to a Niküa Scientific Node. And I expect that character form bonds with the other player characters in that Node. That Node will come before any other organizations... most likely. For that character.
But, I'll also have a character for the Ashen Forge's guild. And that character can support whatever Node the guild chooses. And I'll also have character for the DOP Crew's guild (Revival game devs). That character can support whatever Node the DOP Crew supports. I expect those two guilds will have an alliance.
You may play in such a way that the meta-guild you're already a member of has top priority, but other players will focus more on the characters they create specifically for Ashes. And... a lot of those characters may not decide on a guild until after they choose the specific Node they prefer.
In Ashes, we will be building the cities we want, in the locations we want... and the Node we choose will provide specific things that we want - if we maintain its progression.
So..expect people to be more connected to their homes than they have been in previous games.
You are both right @CROW3 and @McMackMuck I mean, we are so accustomed to guilds being a primary allegiance in online games that we naturally default to that. However, I think that what Stephen is implying about AoC is that it is SO radical a build that we might find that other motivations supersede our guild loyalties.
How might this happen? Just speculating here, but what if you are 18 months into the game and you have worked to raise your node to a Metropolis and you are enjoying the great benefits that come from that. You have also invested greatly into your housing (which is magnificent), your alt's outholding (which is delightful) and your standing in the local theives' guild and religion. But political shifts have resulted in your guild temporarily allying with others which want to raise their city to Metropolis and they have to destroy your Metro to do that. Might you be torn between your 18 month investment in your housing and advancements and what might just be a temporary political shift? I don't know what you or I would do, but it just could be a tough decision to throw everything away and start over because of shifting political alliances.
So yeah, this revolutionary node system may be turning not only gameplay but also loyalties upside down.
But, I'll also have a character for the Ashen Forge's guild. And that character can support whatever Node the guild chooses. And I'll also have character for the DOP Crew's guild (Revival game devs). That character can support whatever Node the DOP Crew supports. I expect those two guilds will have an alliance.
Only if you're on multiple accounts. You can only be a citizen of one node per account.
That is one way Intrepid is enforcing this concept. You can be in however many guilds you want, each character can be in a different guild. But they can only be citizens of one node. (You can also have characters that aren't citizens of any node, of course. That way you don't have to pay taxes for every character!)
"Your account is bound to one declared citizenship per server, which means that if you have two alts and your main character on one server you may only be a citizen of one node between those three... If you have an alt on a different server, it could be a citizen of a node as well." – Steven Sharif
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It's not only if you're on multiple accounts.
It's first a matter of whether you are already a member of a guild from previous games and then whether you plan to be member of that guild in Ashes of Creation.
Next, it depends on whether it's more important to you that your character focuses on a specific racial progression and how much it matters to the character what type of Node progression the character pursues as well as if location matters to the character.
Only being able to be a citizen of one Node isn't a problem.
My main character is the one for whom Node affiliation comes first.
My alts will be in guilds with some friends, but Node affiliation will not be important to those characters, so it's all good.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Only being able to be a citizen of one Node isn't a problem.
My main character is the one for whom Node affiliation comes first.
My alts will be in guilds with some friends, but Node affiliation will not be important to those characters, so it's all good.
Just as long as you understand that you can't have a character doing Ashen Forge's guild's node, and another character doing the DOP Crew's guild's node, unless those are the same node. The scenario you presented in your post isn't feasible. I didn't want this thread to present that misunderstanding.
Otherwise, I'm in agreement with you. My main character will take prominence, it will be what I spend the most time on, and so whatever node that guild supports will be likely the one I become a citizen of. My alts will have to follow suit.
...Though it's also possible for a guild to not focus on a particular node. I'm guessing most will, but it's not necessary. You can have a guild spread out among multiple adjacent nodes, especially if those nodes are set up in a vassalage system, where they will automatically be joined anyway.
And also a reminder to people reading, you aren't committed once you become a citizen. You can voluntarily revoke citizenship if you decide to switch allegiance to another node. But there is a 2 week cooldown if you do so, so don't do this casually. Also, nodes will have a citizenship cap, so you might not be able to join a node you prefer, or a guild may decide to make all of its members citizens of one node but then be unable to because the node is full.
I think in general guild loyalty will win out over node loyalty. But that's one of the cool things about the system is that node loyalty is going to put guild loyalty to the test sometimes. There will be instances where node loyalty wins.
I just can't foresee me choosing node over guild.
You are correct that I don't know for sure until I've played Ashes.
Right. But, what you wrote is: "I can't see how node citizenship can be a stronger bond than guild."
My point of view is that I remain to be convinced that any organization could take priority over my guild.
No sales pitch from Steven is likely to convince me otherwise, although I think it is great that he intends various other organizations to add depth to the social interactions within the game.
What others are able to believe is their choice - I sit at the skeptical end of the bell curve and require evidence beyond a glossy brochure of ambitious intentions. If it is effectively embodied in the released game then I will be amongst the first to stand up, clapping and shout "Bravo!", out of genuine respect. Until then, we wait.
Thank you for how you see it could work - yes, it definitely could work that way for some players.
As in real life, we should be able to choose. Just because I live in a city, doesn't mean I'd fight against my Guild or Family to defend it. However, one problem with allowing choice would be spies, that could flood a node specifically to overthrow it.
Also, one thing that hasn't been brought up was the fact that citizenship is account and character locked. No alts can be made citizen of another node, hopefully, as they intended. I don't want my alt to be automatically made a citizen because my main is.
Ideally I would want all guild members in allied nodes or in the vassal chain. But from what we know, being in a node with a specific religion or social organization could be important for your class augments or crafting skills. The reliquary will matter too, especially if you're a crafter probably. Then there is the node type, which might matter a lot as well to players. There may only be a few nodes that check all the boxes for you, and they might be neutral or hostile to the rest of the guild.
Since nodes are so central to everything in Ashes, including personal character progression, I can absolutely see guilds forming around a node membership, and also guilds splitting up over it.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Thank you for how you see it could work - yes, it definitely could work that way for some players.
Right.
Players for whom guild trumps everything - that will very likely remain the same.
There are other players where that depends on each individual character they create - even if it's only one character.
Cheers!!
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Just as long as you understand that you can't have a character doing Ashen Forge's guild's node, and another character doing the DOP Crew's guild's node, unless those are the same node. The scenario you presented in your post isn't feasible. I didn't want this thread to present that misunderstanding.
Uh. It is feasible to support the Ashen Forge Node and the DOP Crew Node without being a citizen of those Nodes.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Just as long as you understand that you can't have a character doing Ashen Forge's guild's node, and another character doing the DOP Crew's guild's node, unless those are the same node. The scenario you presented in your post isn't feasible. I didn't want this thread to present that misunderstanding.
Uh. It is feasible to support the Ashen Forge Node and the DOP Crew Node without being a citizen of those Nodes.
Fair enough. You can certainly help to advance nodes without citizenship. You won't reap all of the benefits from being a citizen, but just by accomplishing tasks within the ZOI you will work to its benefit.
"There are limited functions and services that non-citizens can gain access to as a result. Obviously you want to attract traffic. You want to attract commerce. You want to track taxation. That's possible because those are the means by which the node continues to grow; and in order for that to be attractive you must offer it to non-citizens alike... We don't want to necessarily be super lockout on content per-se, so most quest-lines are still going to be accessible from non-citizens and citizens alike, however the reward tables for those quests might be higher for citizens. You may have additional rewards that be granted based on quest completion and progression." – Steven Sharif
And everything you do will benefit a node in some way. You will never just level yourself, every inch of the world your character can travel to will be in the ZOI of a node.
"There is not a space where you will move in to do something and no node will get that experience." – Steven Sharif
So yes, you're right. You can support whatever node you want just by choosing to quest in certain areas and citizenship need not be involved at all.
Thank you for how you see it could work - yes, it definitely could work that way for some players.
Right.
Players for whom guild trumps everything - that will very likely remain the same.
There are other players where that depends on each individual character they create - even if it's only one character.
Cheers!!
As long as you understand how much of a minority perspective you are talking about here.
Most players join guilds on the player level, not the character level. Most guilds refer to players either by their actual name, or by the name of their main character - regardless of what character they happen to be playing at the time.
Most guilds also operate along these lines - they recruit players, not characters.
Sure, there are exceptions to this, as there are with everything. However, the above is the vast majority.
Comments
Our guild caters to NA and EU.
How am I supposed to come to your tavern to service all my needs if we aren't on the same server?
@daveywavey tavern will help console them.
Your guild is on two different servers?
Nope. One server, but we have officers who are NA and EU. We will have raids, pvp, RP, sieges and try to incorporate players from multiple countries. I don't believe there are geographical restrictions. So, we can pick an EST or CST server and everyone in the guild can join that server. United States, Canada, Australia, England, etc., everyone is welcome.
Not sure if you are aware, but all of these things will only be able to happen in a region specific time slot, so either way, people in one area or the other will be missing out on half the game.
It's not a bond issue here, but a stakes issue.
I mean while a player will likely be interacting more with guild members than with fellow node citizens / neighbors, and hence will likely have more ~friends~ in guild ...
Let's say a guild has most of its members in node A, and a handful in neighboring node B. Over time all members have invested significantly into their nodes & now own houses, freeholds, and large amount of lootable gatherable. One day the guild management decides to siege B & raze it to the ground for whatever reason.
it's probably natural for those members in B to just defect and join another guild (or start one themselves) more deeply rooted in B to help with defense unless the guild compensates them & helps them evacuate beforehand.
Guilds will want members from many nodes. Members of guilds will want services from other nodes that guild members that are citizens of those nodes can assist with.
It is worth keeping in mind, the statement that node supersedes guild as a comment comes from a person whose idea of a guild is a collection of people that exist to help him achieve his goals. Once achieved, the guild is no longer of use. His ideas of a guild are drastically different to most of ours.
To him, his node citizenship is more important, because his guild is disposable.
Context is important, and behavior in previous games is context.
If I remember correctly, you don't HAVE to destroy citizen housing after sieging a node, granted you may not be the only guild helping siege said node, I can see guilds organizing to have affected guild citizens that cooperated with them will get to keep their home at its current location or even be given priority/access of a new location in the current or new node they plan to further progress.
EDIT: Directed specifically at freeholds.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
While it is true that you don't have to destroy houses, once a node us successfully sieged, any player can come along within the two hour window and destroy a freehold. You do not need to participate in the siege in order to destroy housing afterwards.
Regardless of whether the house is destroyed or not, if the node loses the siege, it is now a level 0 node.
I'm unsure what you mean here.
What is depending on the guild?
I'm not sure how node A would be able to counteract that. Sure, they could repeatedly kill players belonging to the opposing node over and over again, but unless there's a means to expel players I can potentially see this being very frustrating for players. Even with that, the player could simply leave the guild and rejoin when the conflict is over.
None. I just can't foresee me choosing node over guild.
You are correct that I don't know for sure until I've played Ashes.
A different kind of game (Mobile/bluestacks), but the HQ and outpost system in Nova Empire has some similarities with the Node system. As you level up those structures they cast more influence over adjacent solar systems, which determines which alliance (guild) owns each solar system.
This got me thinking. A big part of me agrees with you straight up. The group of folks I play mmos with has been together for like fifteen or sixteen years, and many times we've chosen guild over games. That said, if they choose not to play Ashes, my sense of loyalty to a guild v. my node may be different. If I like where I set up camp in that node, and that's the place I want to come back to after many a dangerous foray into the wilds, I may choose that sense of 'home' over a guild.
I guess we'll just see what happens.
Ashes is an mmoRPG.
Players focused on the RP aspects may very well be playing from their characters' perspectives and interests, rather than the "player's" perspective and interests.
I'll have different character with different interests. Some will be in different guilds.
A couple will be in guilds that will have an alliance.
I'm not sure which guild(s) my "main" character will belong to. I know the desired Node Type is Scientific and Seems very likely that despite being Vek, he will want to belong to a Niküa Scientific Node. And I expect that character form bonds with the other player characters in that Node. That Node will come before any other organizations... most likely. For that character.
But, I'll also have a character for the Ashen Forge's guild. And that character can support whatever Node the guild chooses. And I'll also have character for the DOP Crew's guild (Revival game devs). That character can support whatever Node the DOP Crew supports. I expect those two guilds will have an alliance.
You may play in such a way that the meta-guild you're already a member of has top priority, but other players will focus more on the characters they create specifically for Ashes. And... a lot of those characters may not decide on a guild until after they choose the specific Node they prefer.
In Ashes, we will be building the cities we want, in the locations we want... and the Node we choose will provide specific things that we want - if we maintain its progression.
So..expect people to be more connected to their homes than they have been in previous games.
How might this happen? Just speculating here, but what if you are 18 months into the game and you have worked to raise your node to a Metropolis and you are enjoying the great benefits that come from that. You have also invested greatly into your housing (which is magnificent), your alt's outholding (which is delightful) and your standing in the local theives' guild and religion. But political shifts have resulted in your guild temporarily allying with others which want to raise their city to Metropolis and they have to destroy your Metro to do that. Might you be torn between your 18 month investment in your housing and advancements and what might just be a temporary political shift? I don't know what you or I would do, but it just could be a tough decision to throw everything away and start over because of shifting political alliances.
So yeah, this revolutionary node system may be turning not only gameplay but also loyalties upside down.
It's just a storage box for me. Guilds ftw
That is one way Intrepid is enforcing this concept. You can be in however many guilds you want, each character can be in a different guild. But they can only be citizens of one node. (You can also have characters that aren't citizens of any node, of course. That way you don't have to pay taxes for every character!)
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Citizenship
"Your account is bound to one declared citizenship per server, which means that if you have two alts and your main character on one server you may only be a citizen of one node between those three... If you have an alt on a different server, it could be a citizen of a node as well." – Steven Sharif
It's first a matter of whether you are already a member of a guild from previous games and then whether you plan to be member of that guild in Ashes of Creation.
Next, it depends on whether it's more important to you that your character focuses on a specific racial progression and how much it matters to the character what type of Node progression the character pursues as well as if location matters to the character.
Only being able to be a citizen of one Node isn't a problem.
My main character is the one for whom Node affiliation comes first.
My alts will be in guilds with some friends, but Node affiliation will not be important to those characters, so it's all good.
Otherwise, I'm in agreement with you. My main character will take prominence, it will be what I spend the most time on, and so whatever node that guild supports will be likely the one I become a citizen of. My alts will have to follow suit.
...Though it's also possible for a guild to not focus on a particular node. I'm guessing most will, but it's not necessary. You can have a guild spread out among multiple adjacent nodes, especially if those nodes are set up in a vassalage system, where they will automatically be joined anyway.
And also a reminder to people reading, you aren't committed once you become a citizen. You can voluntarily revoke citizenship if you decide to switch allegiance to another node. But there is a 2 week cooldown if you do so, so don't do this casually. Also, nodes will have a citizenship cap, so you might not be able to join a node you prefer, or a guild may decide to make all of its members citizens of one node but then be unable to because the node is full.
My point of view is that I remain to be convinced that any organization could take priority over my guild.
No sales pitch from Steven is likely to convince me otherwise, although I think it is great that he intends various other organizations to add depth to the social interactions within the game.
What others are able to believe is their choice - I sit at the skeptical end of the bell curve and require evidence beyond a glossy brochure of ambitious intentions. If it is effectively embodied in the released game then I will be amongst the first to stand up, clapping and shout "Bravo!", out of genuine respect. Until then, we wait.
Thank you for how you see it could work - yes, it definitely could work that way for some players.
Also, one thing that hasn't been brought up was the fact that citizenship is account and character locked. No alts can be made citizen of another node, hopefully, as they intended. I don't want my alt to be automatically made a citizen because my main is.
Since nodes are so central to everything in Ashes, including personal character progression, I can absolutely see guilds forming around a node membership, and also guilds splitting up over it.
Players for whom guild trumps everything - that will very likely remain the same.
There are other players where that depends on each individual character they create - even if it's only one character.
Cheers!!
Fair enough. You can certainly help to advance nodes without citizenship. You won't reap all of the benefits from being a citizen, but just by accomplishing tasks within the ZOI you will work to its benefit.
"There are limited functions and services that non-citizens can gain access to as a result. Obviously you want to attract traffic. You want to attract commerce. You want to track taxation. That's possible because those are the means by which the node continues to grow; and in order for that to be attractive you must offer it to non-citizens alike... We don't want to necessarily be super lockout on content per-se, so most quest-lines are still going to be accessible from non-citizens and citizens alike, however the reward tables for those quests might be higher for citizens. You may have additional rewards that be granted based on quest completion and progression." – Steven Sharif
And everything you do will benefit a node in some way. You will never just level yourself, every inch of the world your character can travel to will be in the ZOI of a node.
"There is not a space where you will move in to do something and no node will get that experience." – Steven Sharif
So yes, you're right. You can support whatever node you want just by choosing to quest in certain areas and citizenship need not be involved at all.
As long as you understand how much of a minority perspective you are talking about here.
Most players join guilds on the player level, not the character level. Most guilds refer to players either by their actual name, or by the name of their main character - regardless of what character they happen to be playing at the time.
Most guilds also operate along these lines - they recruit players, not characters.
Sure, there are exceptions to this, as there are with everything. However, the above is the vast majority.