Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
1. From the beginning, the most immersive method of implementation is to give me NOTHING and make me assume everything I encounter is potentially deadly. As a player who has always tended to play squishy classes with a focus on avoiding getting hit in the first place, and an understanding that if I DO get hit I'm QUICKLY in trouble, I PREFER to approach every encounter with the assumption that I'm likely to die. Once I have fought the same sort of entity a number of times, however, I have developed a sense IRL of how to approach the situation and would therefore accept if my character likewise had developed a greater sense of the specifics of a particular encounter. A system whereby certain details of a creature's strengths/weaknesses become known the more times I have encountered them is intriguing and also would help to address some of the concerns voiced by those who fear too LITTLE information will drive an undesirably large portion of the community to seek external sources of information rather than learning by experimentation. The thought of a system whereby one individual could learn details regarding a creature and then TEACH those details to another for a fee is even more entertaining, presenting an entirely new viable career path.
2. If possible, making the level of information available a setting with multiple options would provide the greatest degree of day-one satisfaction to the greatest segment of the community. Allowing those who simply can't bring themselves to approach an encounter without every single detail already in front of them would be happy, while those of us who actually wish to play an immersive game rather than a computerized rewards delivery system (sarcastic, hurtful tone towards adherents to the modern MMO model recognized and intentional) can have a return to the sense of wonder and danger that has been removed from games over the years by the proliferation of more and more detailed CON systems.
For example, when an enemy is more powerful it produces a red or black "aura" in the form of smoke or ash particles. And maybe withholding indicators on first encounter but if the player dies then comes back or retreats they then can "sense the danger". Perhaps having visual threat indication could help produce awareness of danger while reducing UI elements.
Overall, more Old School but obscure information in certain situations to give a feeling of challenge and discovery.
Lol not having the information is the puzzle? if you have all the information it literally isnt a puzzle. You dont play sudoku with all the numbers already put in.
That would be accurate in a world where it was that simple.
It might help to think about it in a more practical since. We both know that i was not asking them to put a level number on the monster's head. I'd prefer they use visual queues to help a player access the monster. Some queues may need to be learned but I'm not sure how many are necessary. If the UI provides any more information then what can be seen in the game or is more convenient to view, then it makes consuming that info through the game obsolete, which is the issue.
On the other side, can you tell me why you feel so strongly about the UI having this info? What are you worried about? Maybe by addressing those fears, you would understand my perspective more.
I know you mentioned you were worried about a player attacking a monster that had such a high level margin, it one shots them. If that is an issue, monsters that have an extreme level advantage could have an effect on them, like glowing eyes.
I thought the idea of an MMO was to play the game - not to play some other game like soduku.
If a developer wants to put some content in a game behind a puzzle, that's great. However, that isn't what you are saying here - you are saying that literally all content in Ashes should be behind such a puzzle.
I mean, by your argument here, we may as well make it so that we need to play Pac-Man, or do a crossword in order to be able to fight some random solo mob.
That is quite literally the argument you are using here. is that really the argument - or the game - you want to go with?
Lol. I love the idea but as a bounty hunter I must decline due to insufficient target detection.
Maybe as a bad Bounty Hunter. 🤣. Bounty Hunting needs to be somewhat difficult - no push notifications when you’re within a hundred yards.
Not sure what u reference here. I haven't seen any Bounty Hunter mechanics in action. What I referenced was relational to both pvp and pve. Namely, I don't want to have to explain how to identify a target in a group situation. Name calls, locations and beacons should be preplanned or rapid repositions.
In real war everyone wears flags, identifiers and uniforms. In an MMO half the creatures are exotic, fantasy creatures which everyone will describe differently.
You got em.
All puzzles are crossword puzzles and pac-man. I guess instead of fighting monsters in raids, we should just play pac-man or do crossword puzzles.
When you enter an raid/instance, do you think the UI should explain all the bosses mechanics? While a mechanic is happening, should there be text that tells the user exactly what they should do?
Yep, no argument on the lack of info on bounty hunting. My point above was that I want bounty hunting to be difficult, like actually have to work to track down the target. I don’t need a specific indicator saying corrupted, cause I have the target’s name and crime on the bill when I took the contract. Overall, less is more.
Raids are those encounters I mentioned where if developers want to add some puzzle components to, they can have at it.
The problem is, when we are talking about this system, we are talking about adding a puzzle to literally every mob in the game.
Yes, I agree. Remember the risk/reward aspect of BH. In the current (recent?) Concepts (old?), that when active the BH is flagged to the target.
I did used to request nameplate to be hidden for BH when active to prevent reprisals.
These days I like the idea of a wild west styled performance plus potential.
Cheers,
Neu
Assuming you want the UI to show level and maybe things like "elite" status, then, similar to instances, every mob still has abilities and resistances that have to be learned. You also might want to learn about the mobs drops.
In your system, every mob is still a "puzzle." Only difference is that the overall power level isn't part of it.
Further, you know it to be utterly ridiculous, and the argument that you are now making is not even an argument that you yourself believe.
Ok, Ill use smaller words for you.
You are claiming that it is ok to not provide players with the level of mobs in an MMO, because you don't start a sudoku with all the numbers present.
Since the point of a sudoku is to fill out the numbers, your argument here is simply not valid. The MMO equivalent of a sudoku with all the numbers filled out would be a game with all the mobs already dead.
The sudoku equivalent of being told the level and general power of a mob in an MMO would be being told if a given sudoku is beginner, intermediate or expert level - which is information that basically all publishers of sudoku provide.
I hope that was easy enough for you to understand. In short, you are making the wrong argument.
Again a bunch of vomit salad. Instead of trying to repeat my argument back to me in some altered favorable way to yourself actually come up with a counter? Regardless of word size
Of course it does. I'm not making a direct comparison saying they are equal. I'm saying this one aspect of sudoku should apply to mmos
As I said earlier. You have all your own stats, own gear, level skill and your prior experience within the game to draw upon to solve the problem. Those are the sudoku numbers you a provided with.
In theory, this means people will be dying more often because they don't know if an enemy is within their level range. If the consequences for dying are too high (loss of exp, spawn back at town, etc), there is no way this doesn't push away the masses that are required to make this game great.
I don't think the dying will be the most frustrating part: it will be fighting a tough foe and not getting any XPs because it was too low level for you, it's just that it was intended for a group. I hate elite mobs...
Many seem to fantasize about thing being hard because they're mysterious and unknown, that amassing knowledge of the world is rewarding because it gives you power, an edge over those who have not yet. They never seem to consider how short lived mysteries are. Past the first encounter, hiding the mob info serves little purpose.
I'm not sure what you think my argument is. I've have played games where mob levels weren't visible and i didn't find it to be a big deal which is all i'm trying to demonstrate here. I think you have an exaggerated perception of how this would play and i'm trying to break that.
I doubt you have never experienced this in your 20 years of playing. I'm sure you never found it a big deal (because it isn't) but i bet there are little things like when a mob runs to friends or casts a spell that have forced you to change your approach i.e. learning you need to silence healing spells.
As i said, if there is an issue with players unknowingly attacking mobs that are too strong, there are ways to warn the player with a simple effect.
If a zone is content for a small level 30 group or a single 40 player for example is in my opinion up to the player as long as you dont dictate it by meaningless item drops and other artificial restrictions. It might support group play a lot if a zone's mob difficulty covers a large range and is mixed throuout the map. Something like a level 40 -45 zone where people at these levels can just turn off their brains while soloing there are just boring.
So unless you add a mechanic that artificially binds players to killing mobs that are roughly their intended level like hit rating WoW or petrification/silence for bosses in Lineage II, I don't see the necessity to put much information or any at all about mob strength on the target.
I'd much more prefer indirect and immersive indicators for mobs that are harder (beeing it higher level or group/raid group content) for example:
- environment detail: skulls or corpses lying around, a more elaborate looking room than the ones of the henchmen, ...
- mob's appearance: more elaborate clothing, bigger in size, ...
- skillbased: Since we already have the option to find hidden stuff, it might also be nice to find clues to an opponents strength, weakness, skillset and the like in the area around the mob or even during a quest. Another idea I like is an knowledge skill you could advance in about a certain type of mobs or skills they have that are similar to your own skills or class
Probably there are a lot more of those kind of immersive indicators than I just listed. I know many of them are typical character design but they are only real indicators if used somewhat consistently (or at least not on random weak mobs)
That’s one possible outcome. Another segment of players will realize that mob is too high level or hits too hard and run away. A subset of that segment will take the risk to test a different strategy to beat the mob. A different subset will stay away and come back later. But all of these players learned through an experience instead of just being told.
IMO there is more longitudinal value for a player to learn on their own via experience than being spoonfed. Healthier for everyone involved.