Just because it’s the current model doesn’t mean it’s the right one to use. Yea, it makes a lot of money because it exploits people with fomo, gambling, loot box dopamine, and the like. Hence, why I think cash shops are crap shops. Instead of exploiting people for huge profits, you could just charge a reasonable amount for your product. Especially if you want your product to be long lasting and offer a high quality experience.
I hate that model as much as the next guy. I was just countering you "research says mtx ain't shit" argument. If it wasn't so profitable, why'd everyone and their mom use it.
It's clear you're fundamentally against a cosmetic shop - totally fine - but Ashes will have a cosmetic shop, that ship has sailed. So just seems like you have to make a decision about what you want to do. Not sure what other outcome you're expecting out of this conversation...
I suppose the outcome I am hoping for is for the cash shop to not be there on release, but I’m not “expecting” anything, Crow. I wasn’t expecting anything when I shared my opinion that the hyper realistic old models weren't as good as a more stylized model could be. The same place where people told me that the art style “ship has sailed” and oh look at what happened!
I was really just sharing my opinion. I don’t know why people feel the need to defend ashes monetization model so intensely that you have to argue my opinion on the matter to this extent. Oh wait… I do… you all bought into it already.
Just because it’s the current model doesn’t mean it’s the right one to use. Yea, it makes a lot of money because it exploits people with fomo, gambling, loot box dopamine, and the like. Hence, why I think cash shops are crap shops. Instead of exploiting people for huge profits, you could just charge a reasonable amount for your product. Especially if you want your product to be long lasting and offer a high quality experience.
I hate that model as much as the next guy. I was just countering you "research says mtx ain't shit" argument. If it wasn't so profitable, why'd everyone and their mom use it.
That wasn’t my argument. The difference is that most of those offer loot boxes and p2w features to be really profitable. Ashes “won’t ever have p2w” (unless they are bought out.) therefore they are using a Gacha model, but not to it’s full profitable extent and trying to claim it’s not one. Again, justifying my opinion on it. Which was:
There are studies that show consumers will pay more for a single expensive item, such as an ashes of creation monthly fee, than they will for a combination of cheaper ones, such as cosmetics. So, no, cosmetic shop is not necessarily the best monetization model for funding future expansions.
So does the game being fully funded mean he doesn't get to maximise the profit from his investment? Was this all some charity case in favor of MMO players?
The Cosmetics and Alpha/Beta keys are the company's sole revenue at this time.
2. I understand their current revenue is cosmetics, and I don't care about that. My whole opinion has been about once they are making revenue from subs and the game is released.
So you just reiterate that this is a concern over pure hypotheticals and thus has no reason to be discussed.
Wanna avoid any sort of P2W? Focus on giving feedback that makes the game better so that it's successful and doesn't ever turn into P2W (because that seems to be a last shore attempt at monetization once a game fails), rather than attacking an unreleased project and those interested in it.
Be constructive now. And the current framework has an imperative Cosmetic shop. Deal with it.
I suppose the outcome I am hoping for is for the cash shop to not be there on release, but I’m not “expecting” anything, Crow. I wasn’t expecting anything when I shared my opinion that the hyper realistic old models weren't as good as a more stylized model could be. The same place where people told me that the art style “ship has sailed” and oh look at what happened!
I was really just sharing my opinion. I don’t know why people feel the need to defend ashes monetization model so intensely that you have to argue my opinion on the matter to this extent. Oh wait… I do… you all bought into it already.
So does the game being fully funded mean he doesn't get to maximise the profit from his investment? Was this all some charity case in favor of MMO players?
The Cosmetics and Alpha/Beta keys are the company's sole revenue at this time.
2. I understand their current revenue is cosmetics, and I don't care about that. My whole opinion has been about once they are making revenue from subs and the game is released.
So you just reiterate that this is a concern over pure hypotheticals and thus has no reason to be discussed.
Be constructive now. And the current framework has an imperative Cosmetic shop. Deal with it.
No… it’s an opinion about their current monetization plan for when the game is released. If hypotheticals have no reason to be discussed than this whole forum is pointless XD the game isn’t released so I guess it’s all hypothetical. I guess people have been buying hypothetical cosmetics this whole time… :O
Just because it’s the current model doesn’t mean it’s the right one to use. Yea, it makes a lot of money because it exploits people with fomo, gambling, loot box dopamine, and the like. Hence, why I think cash shops are crap shops. Instead of exploiting people for huge profits, you could just charge a reasonable amount for your product. Especially if you want your product to be long lasting and offer a high quality experience.
I hate that model as much as the next guy. I was just countering you "research says mtx ain't shit" argument. If it wasn't so profitable, why'd everyone and their mom use it.
That wasn’t my argument. The difference is that most of those offer loot boxes and p2w features to be really profitable. Ashes “won’t ever have p2w” (unless they are bought out.) therefore they are using a Gacha model, but not to it’s full profitable extent and trying to claim it’s not one. Again, justifying my opinion on it. Which was:
There are studies that show consumers will pay more for a single expensive item, such as an ashes of creation monthly fee, than they will for a combination of cheaper ones, such as cosmetics. So, no, cosmetic shop is not necessarily the best monetization model for funding future expansions.
There are studies lmfao, tons of people don't want to pay a monthly sub so the higher it gets the less people that play. You aren't even paying a box cost for the game or expansions, just be happy Intrepid are trying to be as fair as possible.
You are literately wasting effort here pushing for this so badly, just say you don't like it and leave it at that. There is no point really arguing this, with AoC trying to do things int he most fair way possible. If you are trying to fight this cash shop stuff do it in other games where they are actually trying to rob people and make a change there first like diablo immortal.
I can't even take you seriously, you are up in arms at the lightest cash shop possible where they are not going the BDO route and having mounts and gear in game to gain and not forcing you to have a new look through the cash shop.
Ashes “won’t ever have p2w” (unless they are bought out.) therefore they are using a Gacha model, but not to it’s full profitable extent and trying to claim it’s not.
I apologize if I've misunderstood you but, are you claiming AoC has gacha mechanics? It's hard for me to believe that anyone could come to that conclusion. I must be missing some crucial context.
Which is the greater folly, summoning the demon or expecting gratitude from it?
Just because it’s the current model doesn’t mean it’s the right one to use. Yea, it makes a lot of money because it exploits people with fomo, gambling, loot box dopamine, and the like. Hence, why I think cash shops are crap shops. Instead of exploiting people for huge profits, you could just charge a reasonable amount for your product. Especially if you want your product to be long lasting and offer a high quality experience.
I hate that model as much as the next guy. I was just countering you "research says mtx ain't shit" argument. If it wasn't so profitable, why'd everyone and their mom use it.
That wasn’t my argument. The difference is that most of those offer loot boxes and p2w features to be really profitable. Ashes “won’t ever have p2w” (unless they are bought out.) therefore they are using a Gacha model, but not to it’s full profitable extent and trying to claim it’s not one. Again, justifying my opinion on it. Which was:
Gocha mechanics utilize rng in the purchases. I don't see an rng element to the purchases.
He was implying it’s a good model for them to be using… why else would he bring it up? Also, you, like everyone else, is ignoring the point that the cash shop as their primary monetization model means that if the game is bought they will be implementing p2w into that conveniently implemented cash shop. So my opinion has simply been that it’s a better idea to make their monetization model around something that would never open the door to p2w down the road and doesn’t compromise the experience of their game. Raising sub price, paying for character slot, etc…
He was implying it’s a good model for them to be using… why else would he bring it up? Also, you, like everyone else, is ignoring the point that the cash shop as their primary monetization model means that if the game is bought they will be implementing p2w into that conveniently implemented cash shop. So my opinion has simply been that it’s a better idea to make their monetization model around something that would never open the door to p2w down the road and doesn’t compromise the experience of their game. Raising sub price, paying for character slot, etc…
Subs will be their primary revenue stream
Cosmetics will be a secondary revenue stream
Also, no one is addressing the very real possibility that an already implemented cash shop as a monetization model means p2w down the road if the game is sold. Everyone here acts like they work for intrepid’s financial team XD
I wasnt going to address this point, but I will so that it doesnt become a sticking point.
Ashes starting out with a cash shop means absolutely nothing at all in terms of whether the game will eventually have pay to win aspects or not.
Many games have gone from having no cash shop at all to having a pay to win cash shop (WoW). Not having a cash shop is straight up not a barrier at all to a game going pay to win. In fact, a game doesnt even need a functioning cash shop in order to have a pay to win capacity (EVE).
As an argument, the notion that a cosmetic only cash shop is bad because it could mean the game adds pay to win aspects later on down the road is totally pointless.
This is why no one addressed it.
Edit to add; if anything, the argument could be made that Ashes starting out with a cosmetic only cash shop should mean Intrepid do not need to look for additional revenue streams - which is what has led to other games getting pay to win aspects added.
So, the cash shop may well be what prevents pay to win in Ashes in the long run.
Most of the players the game will have at launch aren't going to be players that looked into vision of the game not having any p2w or participated in development. They will be new players. So, they will most likely view the cash shop as just that, a cash shop. With that kind of impression right at the start for new players means that cash shop is developed into the culture of the game and community. So, there would be a lot less backlash if more was added to the cash shop later on then if they launched the game without one, the player base got used to not having one, and then added one later.
Most of the players the game will have at launch aren't going to be players that looked into vision of the game not having any p2w or participated in development. They will be new players. So, they will most likely view the cash shop as just that, a cash shop. With that kind of impression right at the start for new players means that cash shop is developed into the culture of the game and community. So, there would be a lot less backlash if more was added to the cash shop later on then if they launched the game without one, the player base got used to not having one, and then added one later.
By that logic, Intrepid having a website should give you the same cause for pause.
This is because a website is all that is needed to have pay to win aspects in games (again, EVE). Since Intrepid has a website, they could easily just add pay to win features to it and there wouldn't be the backlash because the website is a part of the impression right at the start.
I mean, games can have cash shops for many years and still not sell any pay to win aspects at all. Path of Exile is as good an example of this as any - the game has been live for almost 9 years now, has no subscription fee, and a non pay to win cash shop.
Point is, if Intrepid decided at a later date to shift Ashes over to a pay to win model, the game having or not having a cash shop would have no weight on that decision, and players in the game would not think more or less of the decision based on that cash shop already existing.
He was implying it’s a good model for them to be using… why else would he bring it up?
As I've said in another post, I was just countering your "people would buy the expensive thing rather than the cheap one" comment. If that was always true, mtx wouldn't have become the biggest moneymaker in the gaming industry. I never once said that Ashes will use a gacha mechanic, nor was I implying they would/are.
I was really just sharing my opinion. I don’t know why people feel the need to defend ashes monetization model so intensely that you have to argue my opinion on the matter to this extent. Oh wait… I do… you all bought into it already.
Imagine, sharing your opinion, and then being against someone else sharing their opinion about your opinion. Its crazy how everyone can just do and say what they want to isnt it.
Imagine, sharing your opinion, and then being against someone else sharing their opinion about your opinion. Its crazy how everyone can just do and say what they want to isn't it.
Imagine feeling necessary to share your opinion about other people's opinion about a monetization model in an unreleased video game, that is already making money off of you, to this extent instead of doing something productive. In discussions there is sharing your opinion and there is attempting to dismiss and tear down people and their opinions when they say something you disagree with even though it doesn't affect you at all, including with insults like that eyepatch rat. Yea you can do what you want, but you look silly doing this.
Imagine, sharing your opinion, and then being against someone else sharing their opinion about your opinion. Its crazy how everyone can just do and say what they want to isn't it.
Imagine feeling necessary to share your opinion about other people's opinion about a monetization model in an unreleased video game, that is already making money off of you, to this extent instead of doing something productive. In discussions there is sharing your opinion and there is attempting to dismiss and tear down people and their opinions when they say something you disagree with even though it doesn't affect you at all, including with insults like that eyepatch rat. Yea you can do what you want, but you look silly doing this.
You mistake something here...
My entire purpose was to look silly here. Because i was making a joke... at your expense...
Imagine, sharing your opinion, and then being against someone else sharing their opinion about your opinion. Its crazy how everyone can just do and say what they want to isn't it.
Imagine feeling necessary to share your opinion about other people's opinion about a monetization model in an unreleased video game, that is already making money off of you, to this extent instead of doing something productive. In discussions there is sharing your opinion and there is attempting to dismiss and tear down people and their opinions when they say something you disagree with even though it doesn't affect you at all, including with insults like that eyepatch rat. Yea you can do what you want, but you look silly doing this.
You mistake something here...
My entire purpose was to look silly here. Because i was making a joke... at your expense...
Wow, you have a lot of free time and are really a welcoming and productive member of this community!
Imagine, sharing your opinion, and then being against someone else sharing their opinion about your opinion. Its crazy how everyone can just do and say what they want to isn't it.
Imagine feeling necessary to share your opinion about other people's opinion about a monetization model in an unreleased video game, that is already making money off of you, to this extent instead of doing something productive. In discussions there is sharing your opinion and there is attempting to dismiss and tear down people and their opinions when they say something you disagree with even though it doesn't affect you at all, including with insults like that eyepatch rat. Yea you can do what you want, but you look silly doing this.
You mistake something here...
My entire purpose was to look silly here. Because i was making a joke... at your expense...
Wow, you have a lot of free time and are really a welcoming and productive member of this community!
That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Just dont throw a fit if someone else also has their own opinion about it.
Comments
I suppose the outcome I am hoping for is for the cash shop to not be there on release, but I’m not “expecting” anything, Crow. I wasn’t expecting anything when I shared my opinion that the hyper realistic old models weren't as good as a more stylized model could be. The same place where people told me that the art style “ship has sailed” and oh look at what happened!
I was really just sharing my opinion. I don’t know why people feel the need to defend ashes monetization model so intensely that you have to argue my opinion on the matter to this extent. Oh wait… I do… you all bought into it already.
That wasn’t my argument. The difference is that most of those offer loot boxes and p2w features to be really profitable. Ashes “won’t ever have p2w” (unless they are bought out.) therefore they are using a Gacha model, but not to it’s full profitable extent and trying to claim it’s not one. Again, justifying my opinion on it. Which was:
There are studies that show consumers will pay more for a single expensive item, such as an ashes of creation monthly fee, than they will for a combination of cheaper ones, such as cosmetics. So, no, cosmetic shop is not necessarily the best monetization model for funding future expansions.
So you just reiterate that this is a concern over pure hypotheticals and thus has no reason to be discussed.
Wanna avoid any sort of P2W? Focus on giving feedback that makes the game better so that it's successful and doesn't ever turn into P2W (because that seems to be a last shore attempt at monetization once a game fails), rather than attacking an unreleased project and those interested in it.
Be constructive now. And the current framework has an imperative Cosmetic shop. Deal with it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No… it’s an opinion about their current monetization plan for when the game is released. If hypotheticals have no reason to be discussed than this whole forum is pointless XD the game isn’t released so I guess it’s all hypothetical. I guess people have been buying hypothetical cosmetics this whole time… :O
There are studies lmfao, tons of people don't want to pay a monthly sub so the higher it gets the less people that play. You aren't even paying a box cost for the game or expansions, just be happy Intrepid are trying to be as fair as possible.
You are literately wasting effort here pushing for this so badly, just say you don't like it and leave it at that. There is no point really arguing this, with AoC trying to do things int he most fair way possible. If you are trying to fight this cash shop stuff do it in other games where they are actually trying to rob people and make a change there first like diablo immortal.
I can't even take you seriously, you are up in arms at the lightest cash shop possible where they are not going the BDO route and having mounts and gear in game to gain and not forcing you to have a new look through the cash shop.
I apologize if I've misunderstood you but, are you claiming AoC has gacha mechanics? It's hard for me to believe that anyone could come to that conclusion. I must be missing some crucial context.
Gocha mechanics utilize rng in the purchases. I don't see an rng element to the purchases.
Where is the Gacha model?
All I see is someone bringing up how they make a lot of money, you are the one who said one is being implemented here, which I don't see.
Yes, having a shop is a helpful if you want to sell something but I don't think it means you will sell everything.
So you are just lying then lmfao.
Subs will be their primary revenue stream
Cosmetics will be a secondary revenue stream
When you have a take this extremely bad ya.
Well, technically, I was disputing your incorrect facts about the primary revenue stream. I've learned discussing your opinions isn't fruitful.
I wasnt going to address this point, but I will so that it doesnt become a sticking point.
Ashes starting out with a cash shop means absolutely nothing at all in terms of whether the game will eventually have pay to win aspects or not.
Many games have gone from having no cash shop at all to having a pay to win cash shop (WoW). Not having a cash shop is straight up not a barrier at all to a game going pay to win. In fact, a game doesnt even need a functioning cash shop in order to have a pay to win capacity (EVE).
As an argument, the notion that a cosmetic only cash shop is bad because it could mean the game adds pay to win aspects later on down the road is totally pointless.
This is why no one addressed it.
Edit to add; if anything, the argument could be made that Ashes starting out with a cosmetic only cash shop should mean Intrepid do not need to look for additional revenue streams - which is what has led to other games getting pay to win aspects added.
So, the cash shop may well be what prevents pay to win in Ashes in the long run.
This is because a website is all that is needed to have pay to win aspects in games (again, EVE). Since Intrepid has a website, they could easily just add pay to win features to it and there wouldn't be the backlash because the website is a part of the impression right at the start.
I mean, games can have cash shops for many years and still not sell any pay to win aspects at all. Path of Exile is as good an example of this as any - the game has been live for almost 9 years now, has no subscription fee, and a non pay to win cash shop.
Point is, if Intrepid decided at a later date to shift Ashes over to a pay to win model, the game having or not having a cash shop would have no weight on that decision, and players in the game would not think more or less of the decision based on that cash shop already existing.
The concern is completely unfounded.
Aaaaahahahaha, aheheheheh heeeeheheeeheehaaaaa.....
Imagine feeling necessary to share your opinion about other people's opinion about a monetization model in an unreleased video game, that is already making money off of you, to this extent instead of doing something productive. In discussions there is sharing your opinion and there is attempting to dismiss and tear down people and their opinions when they say something you disagree with even though it doesn't affect you at all, including with insults like that eyepatch rat. Yea you can do what you want, but you look silly doing this.
You mistake something here...
My entire purpose was to look silly here. Because i was making a joke... at your expense...
Wow, you have a lot of free time and are really a welcoming and productive member of this community!
That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Just dont throw a fit if someone else also has their own opinion about it.