Also, I’m pretty sure any in game cash shop is using part of a Gacha model, like I said perhaps just not to it’s fullest extent. Just because there isn’t a gambling mechanism doesn’t mean their buyable in game currency, aka embers, and their wearable loot, aka cosmetics, don’t utilize Gacha mechanics of those features all while doing the very Gacha thing of exploiting collection and fomo desires.
If you really wanted Steven to maximize his investment…
So does the game being fully funded mean he doesn't get to maximise the profit from his investment? Was this all some charity case in favor of MMO players?
… shouldn’t he utilize Gacha to it’s fullest extent?
You all draw the line at p2w, which is fine. I draw the line at any cash shop, which is also fine.
Also, I’m pretty sure any in game cash shop is using part of a Gacha model, like I said perhaps just not to it’s fullest extent. Just because there isn’t a gambling mechanism doesn’t mean their buyable in game currency, aka embers, and their wearable loot, aka cosmetics, don’t utilize Gacha mechanics of those features all while doing the very Gacha thing of exploiting collection and fomo desires.
If you really wanted Steven to maximize his investment…
So does the game being fully funded mean he doesn't get to maximise the profit from his investment? Was this all some charity case in favor of MMO players?
… shouldn’t he utilize Gacha to it’s fullest extent?
You all draw the line at p2w, which is fine. I draw the line at any cash shop, which is also fine.
Ill point it out. The difference between a gotcha model, and a cosmetic shop is the act of gambling. Because gambling can limit where the game is available. If gambling wouldnt effect ashes sales in the EU or other areas im sure there would be lootboxes for cosmetics. And yes, ew, "gotcha bad." I dont like gotcha products either. But im also not a person who gambles. I dont play gotcha stuff. I dont care if ashes has a cosmetic shop, im not going to use it. Thats the type of person i am.
Guy: has an opinion about things that haven't happened and doesn't like an aspect of the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: has a different opinion and doesn't see the benefit of having a full thread for someone's rant.
Guy: is upset that no one will convert to their point of view, for sharing their own opinions and accuses others of being shills for not disliking the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: dismissed the doofus for being illogical and hypocritical.
Guy: is even more upset and starts telling people they don't get to share their opinions ont his own opinion driven thread.
Guy: has an opinion about things that haven't happened and doesn't like an aspect of the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: has a different opinion and doesn't see the benefit of having a full thread for someone's rant.
Guy: is upset that no one will convert to their point of view, for sharing their own opinions and accuses others of being shills for not disliking the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: dismissed the doofus for being illogical and hypocritical.
Guy: is even more upset and starts telling people they don't get to share their opinions ont his own opinion driven thread.
You can't make this shit up.
Oh, I didn't want to assume it was about me because it didn't make sense. First of all, I am not a guy and I'm not the op so this isn't my thread XD. Secondly, wasn't ranting and I don't care if anyone converts to my point of view, never once said that. Third, that one guy was for sure acting like a shill... Lastly, people can share their opinions but it seems their opinion is really that they just don't like mine and I thought it was silly to take it to this extent when that's all it is.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Also, I’m pretty sure any in game cash shop is using part of a Gacha model, like I said perhaps just not to it’s fullest extent. Just because there isn’t a gambling mechanism doesn’t mean their buyable in game currency, aka embers, and their wearable loot, aka cosmetics, don’t utilize Gacha mechanics of those features all while doing the very Gacha thing of exploiting collection and fomo desires.
If you really wanted Steven to maximize his investment…
So does the game being fully funded mean he doesn't get to maximise the profit from his investment? Was this all some charity case in favor of MMO players?
… shouldn’t he utilize Gacha to it’s fullest extent?
You all draw the line at p2w, which is fine. I draw the line at any cash shop, which is also fine.
Why are you so attached to this buzzword?
The model is named after toy vending machines that give you a random toy. The random element is why it's called Gacha.
The Gambling mechanism is also why some considered it bad. If the gambling element isn't there then it's the same as any other shop.
Anything can be collected. If they are exploiting collectors then so is any other business that sells a large variety of things. Are you saying that those businesses should develop less things as too not overwelm someone who might want to collect their products?
Is that what this is about? Are you upset that they develop so many cosmetics because you want to have everything?
It's not about collection it's about paying for it as an in game feature with buyable in game currency. I just think it lessens the experience of a game is all, mclizard.
Guy: has an opinion about things that haven't happened and doesn't like an aspect of the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: has a different opinion and doesn't see the benefit of having a full thread for someone's rant.
Guy: is upset that no one will convert to their point of view, for sharing their own opinions and accuses others of being shills for not disliking the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: dismissed the doofus for being illogical and hypocritical.
Guy: is even more upset and starts telling people they don't get to share their opinions ont his own opinion driven thread.
You can't make this shit up.
Oh, I didn't want to assume it was about me because it didn't make sense. First of all, I am not a guy and I'm not the op so this isn't my thread XD. Secondly, wasn't ranting and I don't care if anyone converts to my point of view, never once said that. Third, that one guy was for sure acting like a shill... Lastly, people can share their opinions but it seems their opinion is really that they just don't like mine and I thought it was silly to take it to this extent when that's all it is.
When you try to pass you opinion off as a fact, you open yourself up to criticism. If others disagree with your opinion, they are free to do so. You can claim it's stupid all you want, but it's not going to change the hypocrisy of your stance.
Oh I am not claiming it's fact. This is all hypothetical, remember. This game isn't out yet. The only "fact" is that I don't like cash shops, which is an opinion.
Oh I am not claiming it's fact. This is all hypothetical, remember. This game isn't out yet. The only "fact" is that I don't like cash shops, which is an opinion.
So here is the deal.
The majority of money being made in the gaming industry is by micro transactions. Its horrible for the industry imo. But that is the truth.
Ashes of creation wants to be successful. And data shows that they are very likely to make more money with a cash shop, than any way they would otherwise fund the game.
They still want to avoid pay to win, which i think is a good thing.
They want to try and make these cosmetics something worth purchasing, instead of just cheap, of sexual flare outfits.
And they are not going the gambling route, of lootboxes, altho i beleive that is due to governemt restrictions more than it is from the companies good will, but who knows for sure.
Ashes is a monumental step forward compaired to other games of today. Its ambitious. I want it to succeed.
I personally will not be buying things from their cosmetic shop, i dont care for "skins" ill wear the gear i find regardless of what it looks like mashed together.
Im okay with others buying skins to fund the game, because i want the game to exist, so i can play it. As long as they dont get any advantages from the shop.
“Here is the deal”
To what you’ve just said, I’ve already responded many times from others. I’ve given my opinion on it, alternatives I’d like to see instead of cash shop, and how it will affect gameplay experience given other mmos.
Mr. Penguin I already understand all of the deal, but no one understands that explaining the same thing of what’s in the wiki of why ashes is using a cash shop to me over and over again isn’t going to change my opinion of not liking cash shops.
“Here is the deal”
To what you’ve just said, I’ve already responded many times from others. I’ve given my opinion on it, alternatives I’d like to see instead of cash shop, and how it will affect gameplay experience given other mmos.
Mr. Penguin I already understand all of the deal, but no one understands that explaining the same thing of what’s in the wiki of why ashes is using a cash shop to me over and over again isn’t going to change my opinion of not liking cash shops.
Please. Mr. Penguin is my father.
My point isnt to change your view. In fact im pretty sure i just agreed with your view. In saying i dont personally support cash shops.
This in my opinion isnt a major thread that is going to have a lot of relevant discussions imo, so excuse me for not actually reading through the whole thing. Im mostly here because i dont have much better to do at the moment.
Nothing ive said comes directly from the wiki or anything, these are just my thoughts, im just trying to discuss things.
And as a discussion is my main focus, and winning an argument, or proving your opinion, or simply resisting others opinions seems to be your focus, it doesnt seem possible to talk on this point.
I just see ashes cash shop, as what they need to survive the current market. Its a nessessary evil, if you will. That doesnt make it something worth defending, or praising. But i want the game to succeed, so im not going to complain about a cash shop with no in game effect.
Not me.... seeing as ive only been here for the last few minutes to play with you....
In my defense. When i see pointless arguments, i just interject to make everyone stop for a second and realize whats going on. And you seemed to be the most vocal, so i picked on you.
Its a nessessary evil, if you will. That doesnt make it something worth defending, or praising. But i want the game to succeed, so im not going to complain about a cash shop with no in game effect.
& I am not trying to win anything by sharing that I don’t like cash shops. I don’t believe in “necessary evils” and that exact line has been said to me before, pretty much everything you did has been. Maybe you didn’t get it from the wiki, but what I am gathering is a lot of people don’t like cash shop and call it things like “evil”, but they are just agreeing with it because Steven said it’s the only way for his game to survive? I like to look for alternatives to evil things and do better. So, like I said, nothing can make me agree with cash shop and that’s okay.
…When i see pointless arguments, i just interject…
-_-
& I am not trying to win anything by sharing that I don’t like cash shops. I don’t believe in “necessary evils” and that exact line has been said to me before, pretty much everything you did has been. Maybe you didn’t get it from the wiki, but what I am gathering is a lot of people don’t like cash shop and call it things like “evil”, but they are just agreeing with it because Steven said it’s the only way for his game to survive? I like to look for alternatives to evil things and do better. So, like I said, nothing can make me agree with cash shop and that’s okay.
Could you tell me which page has your alternatives to their cash shop?
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It's not about collection it's about paying for it as an in game feature with buyable in game currency. I just think it lessens the experience of a game is all, mclizard.
And this seems to be your real issue, which is cool.
I have never found store cosmetics to affect my appreciation for appearances that take effort to achieve. To me, store cosmetics are the same as basic quest gear. Even when quest gear looks good, it's not that big of a deal since it's easy to get.
Uh idk what page but some alternatives I like are paying for character slots, or raising sub fee a little while offering a type of trial period. There’s other alternatives out there I’m sure, I’m not a financial advisor or do I work for this company. And these are okay with me just like cash shop is okay with others. I explained my reasoning already in here though so we don’t need to go back into it, but the gist of it is character slots and or higher sub fee don’t affect actual in-game gameplay experience the way cosmetics do.
I think that cosmetics being a primary form of revenue means that they will be investing their artists there rather than in game art and item sets. There are tons of examples where this is the case and they put the bare minimum effort into in-game gear and focus on the buyable gear (see WoW if you need just one). It takes away from the collection and reward value of earning cool things in game. And I don’t care for the argument that “visuals don’t matter” in a video game because that’s the main reason people play them over table top games.
So the difference's there to buying character slots or just a higher sub fee is it is a more limited "amount spent per consumer"
With a cash shop, some individuals are likely to spend obscenely more than nessessary on the game every month. And for those individuals capable of that, its okay. It allows for the bulk of players, and the casual players or people just looking to try the game a shot at doing that cheaply. Where higher costs of entry will limit the player base in a game where a high population is mandatory. And buying character slots in general for a game intended to be a high time investment for every character, you probably cant expect most players to buy more than three or so...
I agree those are both less hostile monetary methods, but i dont agree that the same scale of revenue could be expected with them over a cash shop.
Nah I never suggested you have to think they are superior haha, they are just ideas. But, like I said, at least my ideas do not affect any in-game gameplay experience like cosmetics do.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Nah I never suggested you have to think they are superior haha, they are just ideas. But, like I said, at least my ideas do not affect any in-game gameplay experience like cosmetics do.
It doesn't really affect in-game gameplay anyway. Because everyone can just earn the earnable ingame cosmetics.
Natasha, here are two ways I’ve already addressed that statement as a refute to my opinion:
It breaks immersion, it reduces the significance of earning cool items in game, and it emphasizes that your visual experience in the game will be directly tied to your to real life wealth. Not to mention it gives off a weird vibe kind of like “what’s real armor.”
I think that cosmetics being a primary form of revenue means that they will be investing their artists there rather than in game art and item sets. There are tons of examples where this is the case and they put the bare minimum effort into in-game gear and focus on the buyable gear (see WoW if you need just one).
Natasha, here are two ways I’ve already addressed that statement as a refute to my opinion:
It breaks immersion, it reduces the significance of earning cool items in game, and it emphasizes that your visual experience in the game will be directly tied to your to real life wealth. Not to mention it gives off a weird vibe kind of like “what’s real armor.”
I think that cosmetics being a primary form of revenue means that they will be investing their artists there rather than in game art and item sets. There are tons of examples where this is the case and they put the bare minimum effort into in-game gear and focus on the buyable gear (see WoW if you need just one).
What if they have a graphics setting that allows you to turn off other peoples cosmetics?
Comments
If you really wanted Steven to maximize his investment… … shouldn’t he utilize Gacha to it’s fullest extent?
You all draw the line at p2w, which is fine. I draw the line at any cash shop, which is also fine.
I mean, if you really want to have a pointless argument with me instead of moving on, im also bored.... so...
You didnt even define "threw a fit" for me. I can show you anything and consider it you throwing a fit.
Here you go.
In this instance for you throwing a fit, you are represented by my cat, lizzy. Throwing a fit, by napping in a box she doesnt fit in.
Ill point it out. The difference between a gotcha model, and a cosmetic shop is the act of gambling. Because gambling can limit where the game is available. If gambling wouldnt effect ashes sales in the EU or other areas im sure there would be lootboxes for cosmetics. And yes, ew, "gotcha bad." I dont like gotcha products either. But im also not a person who gambles. I dont play gotcha stuff. I dont care if ashes has a cosmetic shop, im not going to use it. Thats the type of person i am.
Guy: has an opinion about things that haven't happened and doesn't like an aspect of the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: has a different opinion and doesn't see the benefit of having a full thread for someone's rant.
Guy: is upset that no one will convert to their point of view, for sharing their own opinions and accuses others of being shills for not disliking the game's revenue strategy.
Everyone else: dismissed the doofus for being illogical and hypocritical.
Guy: is even more upset and starts telling people they don't get to share their opinions ont his own opinion driven thread.
You can't make this shit up.
You, ya doofus
Not me.... seeing as ive only been here for the last few minutes to play with you....
Oh, I didn't want to assume it was about me because it didn't make sense. First of all, I am not a guy and I'm not the op so this isn't my thread XD. Secondly, wasn't ranting and I don't care if anyone converts to my point of view, never once said that. Third, that one guy was for sure acting like a shill... Lastly, people can share their opinions but it seems their opinion is really that they just don't like mine and I thought it was silly to take it to this extent when that's all it is.
Why are you so attached to this buzzword?
The model is named after toy vending machines that give you a random toy. The random element is why it's called Gacha.
The Gambling mechanism is also why some considered it bad. If the gambling element isn't there then it's the same as any other shop.
Anything can be collected. If they are exploiting collectors then so is any other business that sells a large variety of things. Are you saying that those businesses should develop less things as too not overwelm someone who might want to collect their products?
Is that what this is about? Are you upset that they develop so many cosmetics because you want to have everything?
When you try to pass you opinion off as a fact, you open yourself up to criticism. If others disagree with your opinion, they are free to do so. You can claim it's stupid all you want, but it's not going to change the hypocrisy of your stance.
So here is the deal.
The majority of money being made in the gaming industry is by micro transactions. Its horrible for the industry imo. But that is the truth.
Ashes of creation wants to be successful. And data shows that they are very likely to make more money with a cash shop, than any way they would otherwise fund the game.
They still want to avoid pay to win, which i think is a good thing.
They want to try and make these cosmetics something worth purchasing, instead of just cheap, of sexual flare outfits.
And they are not going the gambling route, of lootboxes, altho i beleive that is due to governemt restrictions more than it is from the companies good will, but who knows for sure.
Ashes is a monumental step forward compaired to other games of today. Its ambitious. I want it to succeed.
I personally will not be buying things from their cosmetic shop, i dont care for "skins" ill wear the gear i find regardless of what it looks like mashed together.
Im okay with others buying skins to fund the game, because i want the game to exist, so i can play it. As long as they dont get any advantages from the shop.
To what you’ve just said, I’ve already responded many times from others. I’ve given my opinion on it, alternatives I’d like to see instead of cash shop, and how it will affect gameplay experience given other mmos.
Mr. Penguin I already understand all of the deal, but no one understands that explaining the same thing of what’s in the wiki of why ashes is using a cash shop to me over and over again isn’t going to change my opinion of not liking cash shops.
Please. Mr. Penguin is my father.
My point isnt to change your view. In fact im pretty sure i just agreed with your view. In saying i dont personally support cash shops.
This in my opinion isnt a major thread that is going to have a lot of relevant discussions imo, so excuse me for not actually reading through the whole thing. Im mostly here because i dont have much better to do at the moment.
Nothing ive said comes directly from the wiki or anything, these are just my thoughts, im just trying to discuss things.
And as a discussion is my main focus, and winning an argument, or proving your opinion, or simply resisting others opinions seems to be your focus, it doesnt seem possible to talk on this point.
I just see ashes cash shop, as what they need to survive the current market. Its a nessessary evil, if you will. That doesnt make it something worth defending, or praising. But i want the game to succeed, so im not going to complain about a cash shop with no in game effect.
In my defense. When i see pointless arguments, i just interject to make everyone stop for a second and realize whats going on. And you seemed to be the most vocal, so i picked on you.
-_-
& I am not trying to win anything by sharing that I don’t like cash shops. I don’t believe in “necessary evils” and that exact line has been said to me before, pretty much everything you did has been. Maybe you didn’t get it from the wiki, but what I am gathering is a lot of people don’t like cash shop and call it things like “evil”, but they are just agreeing with it because Steven said it’s the only way for his game to survive? I like to look for alternatives to evil things and do better. So, like I said, nothing can make me agree with cash shop and that’s okay.
Could you tell me which page has your alternatives to their cash shop?
And this seems to be your real issue, which is cool.
I have never found store cosmetics to affect my appreciation for appearances that take effort to achieve. To me, store cosmetics are the same as basic quest gear. Even when quest gear looks good, it's not that big of a deal since it's easy to get.
Idk, man - the McLizard costume could be a viral skin.
With a cash shop, some individuals are likely to spend obscenely more than nessessary on the game every month. And for those individuals capable of that, its okay. It allows for the bulk of players, and the casual players or people just looking to try the game a shot at doing that cheaply. Where higher costs of entry will limit the player base in a game where a high population is mandatory. And buying character slots in general for a game intended to be a high time investment for every character, you probably cant expect most players to buy more than three or so...
I agree those are both less hostile monetary methods, but i dont agree that the same scale of revenue could be expected with them over a cash shop.
Yeah and I hat those options. So where does that leave us? Are we supposed to assume that your option is superior because you believe it to be so?
How do you weigh someone's opinion's value against another? Is it by volume of people wishing for one of the other?
It doesn't really affect in-game gameplay anyway. Because everyone can just earn the earnable ingame cosmetics.
It breaks immersion, it reduces the significance of earning cool items in game, and it emphasizes that your visual experience in the game will be directly tied to your to real life wealth. Not to mention it gives off a weird vibe kind of like “what’s real armor.”
I think that cosmetics being a primary form of revenue means that they will be investing their artists there rather than in game art and item sets. There are tons of examples where this is the case and they put the bare minimum effort into in-game gear and focus on the buyable gear (see WoW if you need just one).
What if they have a graphics setting that allows you to turn off other peoples cosmetics?