Talking about Mounting before Combat, during Combat and after Combat.
Jawjak
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
I've seen older videos of people fighting, then during a fight, they would mount up and run away. As much as I love to get out of a sticky situation, it is frustrating fighting someone then they just run off during combat. I do enjoy the mounts and how they feel, but I feel like being able to fight then mount, dismount, fight, mount repeat is sort of annoying mechanics.
The other argument is lets say you are fighting a small group when your team from far away needs your squad to rotate. Then you'd want to get out of that situation you are currently in so you can help your team. If mount timer is added, then you have to deal with the current situation before going over.
I would like to make sure the current mounting system is and discussions on what are the best approaches to this. I also am wondering if some weapons/skills can offer disabling of mounts or dismount abilities. (This is from UO where you can have a crossbow knock someone off their mount and they have to take some time before remounting).
The other argument is lets say you are fighting a small group when your team from far away needs your squad to rotate. Then you'd want to get out of that situation you are currently in so you can help your team. If mount timer is added, then you have to deal with the current situation before going over.
I would like to make sure the current mounting system is and discussions on what are the best approaches to this. I also am wondering if some weapons/skills can offer disabling of mounts or dismount abilities. (This is from UO where you can have a crossbow knock someone off their mount and they have to take some time before remounting).
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Comments
I'm not sure what no mounting during combat means.
If I'm out picking flowers, get ambushed and want to escape without flagging as Combatant, does that mean I'm stuck on foot while I'm being attacked?
I have to be able to run x distance without being hit before I can summon my mount??
What you have seen of mounts isn't the final system. From what we have heard, the mount system sounds similar to Archeage's if you are familiar.
I think that if we afford non-combatants some sort of protection then that may steers the system towards being a bit more defender-friendly. I guess you always have to balance how you want this weight between attacker/defender to feel (regardless of their combatant status).
I think that in a pvp game, even if I am picking flowers I expect to need to be overly aware of the constant risk of danger like an animal in the wild. I think that we should afford the same rules for attacker/defender. I.e. A defender can't just mount to escape if they get pulled into combat, however an attacker cannot mount to close the distance either if you manage to break off.
What this seems to suggest is that if I'm picking flowers and get attacked by someone on a combat mount, I can only run on foot. I can't also hop on a combat mount or flee on a mount while I'm being attacked.
Seems to me a Non-Combatant should be able to summon a mount, whenever.
Maybe a Combatant should not be able to summon a mount after flagging for PvP. Obviously, if they initiated combat while on a mount, the Combatant doesn't need to summon a mount.
A Non-Combatant is not a defender.
Ashes is a PvX game.
I disagree that a non-combatant should have pvp protection in particular due to the game being PvX, perhaps we just don't see eye to eye here. I feel then we are steering to the argument that as the game will entice alot of "pve" players who don't want to engage in PvP, that they need protecting. The design seems to strongly go in the direction of there being risk in just about anything and I think that yes, even flower picking should have some risk.
And that is from someone who will not be one of the avid pvpers and will very likely be outclassed in most cases. But I believe that's how the system will work. Rather than using other mechanics to protect non-combatants should we be perhaps seeing how the corruption system works when fleshed out, and work on developing Corruption as the over-arching solution to trying to prevent "griefing"?
Combatants can be on mounts. Combatants can be on mounts that have Snare abilities.
It's just that Combatants would want to initiate combat from a mount, if they expect their target(s) will summon a mount to flee or fight.
Because the OP also suggests that if I'm picking flowers and I get ambushed by a mounted attacker, I can't summon a combat mount and flag as Combatant while I'm being attacked.
If you summon your mount, you are risking it being killed and you will have to deal with whatever penalty comes with that.
As an attacker, if you drop all of your CC on someone for no reason and they mount up, then i think they deserve to get away. You will also have your own mount to try to catch them on.
I do think players should be able to escape combat if they desire.
I just don't think it should be as easy as hopping on your mount and waving bye.
it's not that easy.
A person conducting an ambush will always have the advantage that is just a matter of fact. But given there shouldn't really be true invisibility, you should at least have a chance to watch your surroundings and determine if you are safe or not, before the ambush takes place.
I personally want some sort of delay before being able to remount during combat. I know in UO ( I keep referencing UO cause that is my most played MMO) there are pvp factions and there is a statuette that you can have in your bag where it will summon a mount for you to automatically ride on. When people get dismounted, they use this statue to get back on a new mount while they other one goes away. (Some people used scripts for this fyi auto mount if dismounted).
But just wanting more thoughts on this delay. I really don't want to see someone mount during a fight, but I also don't want to see someone waiting 5-10 seconds after combat before mounting cause you might never be able to mount back up. Trying to find a good median.
I have a feeling PvP folk won’t like Non-Combatants having an advantage for escaping PvP.
I would consider the needed balance in terms of the corruption system. From what we know so far of the settings and balance of the corruption system, it seems to heavily favor consensual PvP and attempts to discourage non-consensual ganking, with repeated non-consensual PvP being heavily punished. So in that light I think allowing a non-combatant who hasn't entered combat yet to run away on their mount an appropriate choice. It seems clear that this would be more in line with Intrepid's design intention.
Because the other choice is for the flower-picker to decide not to fight back, just stand there and die which makes the player frustrated and then give the attacker corruption and the associated negative effects, which then makes the attacker frustrated. I'd much rather we have a situation with one happy player and one unhappy player, whose unhappiness is purely of their own making, than two unhappy players who are unhappy due to game design choices.
Things like that should use environmental positioning, timing and reflexes ...
I don't want mounting to take long explicitly.
I want 'Quick Mount' or 'Leaping Mount' to be a mount skill for those who wish to have an 'Escape Based' response to sudden PvP challenges.
And maybe some other skills too for when a mount 'detects a Combatant near it' when summoned in Open World. Alert Owner, Flee Towards Owner, etc.
I think it would be more interesting to be able to use your Mount as an alarm system for potential threats if you are taking the risk of having it summoned in the Open World to begin with.
As its currently described in the wiki, your mount will be summoned near you, not with you on it. And you will need to mount it. Mounting is described as a quick and easy action. So i mean. I dont think time involved in summoning the mount is a big deal if its a 2 step system. Summon, then mount. I just dont think escape should be a simple one button action.
Then it moves on to mount specialization. If you want a fast mount for escaping, its probably weaker/not as useful in combat.
A group trying to attack someone would probably have members with combat specific mounts, a few individuals with "chaser" mounts to stop people from fleeing.
We summoned the mount near us and then auto-mounted.
It's not really one-button, in any case, because it's still a second button to actually move. You don't just start speeding away simply because you summoned your mount.
Of course, there will be mount specializations due to Animal Husbandry and Combat Mounts.
1 button to mount will not have you escaping. You will just be staying where you are until you hit a 2nd button.
So, escape by summoning a mount cannot be a 1-button action, in any case.
Mounting does not cause you to evade a bunch of attacks. You still have to do something after you mount.
And you might choose to use your mount's attacks.
Flow of combat will depend on what people actually choose to do.
Some players might prefer mounted combat.
You are really exaggerating the time it takes to press W....
Preferring mounted combat and balancing so it doesn't ruin the flow of the game are two different things. I don't think they are putting effort into all the classes to make mounted combat better then everything else and 0 time frame to instantly get on a mount. Pretty sure you want that more to just run away though if you are going to say 5 seconds is too much.