You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail. If you want to tie some pointless jury to that - you can.
And then the reported player can get out of jail immediately if they were afk and got wrongfully accused, but they'd still get pinged to GMs for the report (in the case that botters can operate their characters well enough to get out of jail immediately).
You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail.
Hehe - yeah, I don’t see the mmo player-base abusing that capability at all.
Huh - that green is mining in our area. Report, report, report - now we’re clear and no corruption. Yoink! 🤪
Hehe - yeah, I don’t see the mmo player-base abusing that capability at all.
Huh - that green is mining in our area. Report, report, report - now we’re clear and no corruption. Yoink! 🤪
That's why I said that the reported player can return immediately. The player doesn't die, while still remaining in the same place. And the system would definitely need to track repeated report sends. If the same 3 dudes go around reporting every single person they see - they get pinged for harassment and get sent to jail just like a bot would (except with maybe no immediate escape).
And obviously all of this is under the pretense that there's a live GM that would get pinged by all those reports and could monitor the situation live.
And obviously all of this is under the pretense that there's a live GM that would get pinged by all those reports and could monitor the situation live.
Mmm. Now think of this at scale. How many live GMs are you expecting Steven to hire?
Mmm. Now think of this at scale. How many live GMs are you expecting Steven to hire?
I mean, that applies to any issue relating to GMs though. There's an exploit in the game? Think of how many times it'll be used at scale and how much will the in-game system flag it for GMs? There's harassment of other players? Same shit. There's mass reporting? Same shit.
That's the usual case with live GMing, so it's on Intrepid to setup the tools required for those GMs to maximize their output w/o burning themselves out. Some automation of the imprisoning here and there, with GM pings for later checkup. Some abuse prevention of "if reported the same person twice within some period of time - turn off reporting. If reported multiple people in the span of some short period of time - jail for 5 mins. If continues to do so - jail longer and ping GMs".
Stuff like that can alleviate some of the scale issues, but GM's job is to look at everything they need to look at, of which there'll be a ton.
You could have your prison thing for bots. Have a proper anti-bot reporting mechanic where the reported player has to do some activity on their side when they get reported, and if there's 3 people who reported them within 5 minutes and the player failed to do the activity - they get sent to jail. If you want to tie some pointless jury to that - you can.
And then the reported player can get out of jail immediately if they were afk and got wrongfully accused, but they'd still get pinged to GMs for the report (in the case that botters can operate their characters well enough to get out of jail immediately).
As someone who's written bots before: Waste of time. No bot I'dve written is gonna have trouble with any reasonable task you request short of actual captchas and even those aren't exactly perfect.
As a player who's paid the slightest modicum of attention to New World, and the whole "report-spam the enemy guild right before the battle"? This is just gonna get triggered at critical moments. Three people reporting your main tank, as their guild mates close in to steal your raid boss? It doesn't even matter if your tank can complete the task.
At the end of the day, if you had the GMs online to monitor and respond immediately to something like this, you wouldn't need the jail. The GM would just ban the bots when you report them.
Systems like this are more effort than they're worth, and don't stop enough bots to justify the cost or the annoyance to legitimate players. Add on any potential for abuse, and you've got a non-starter. It's better to focus one's resources on other methods of dealing with the problem. Proactive automated and manual detection, review, and response is still the optimal counter to the problem of bots as a whole.
The problem for us forum-goers is that we can't just discuss good ideas for how to detect or counter bots for real. It'd just give the bot writers more hints for what to evade. At the end of the day, we have to trust the people at Intrepid.
I mean, that applies to any issue relating to GMs though. There's an exploit in the game? Think of how many times it'll be used at scale and how much will the in-game system flag it for GMs? There's harassment of other players? Same shit. There's mass reporting? Same shit.
Exactly, so why give them one more thing they are going to have to prioritize and juggle for literally no upside to any players involved when there’s already a planned automated system to manage the same behavior? 🤨
Exactly, so why give them one more thing they are going to have to prioritize and juggle for literally no upside to any players involved when there’s already a planned automated system to manage the same behavior? 🤨
I mean, the benefit would be the removal of potential bots w/o gaining corruption (in case you don't care about their loot). And depending on how those automated systems will be set up, some bots might circumvent them and just keep grinding, while all those GMs are super busy with smth else.
As a player who's paid the slightest modicum of attention to New World, and the whole "report-spam the enemy guild right before the battle"? This is just gonna get triggered at critical moments. Three people reporting your main tank, as their guild mates close in to steal your raid boss? It doesn't even matter if your tank can complete the task.
The system could be tracking the amount of people around the reported person relative to the amount of reports received. Or maybe just track event participation (be it bosses/sieges/whatever).
But yes, active GMs and proper anti-bot system are supposed to prevent this stuff from happening, but we all know that they won't be 100% effective.
Either way, this was just a suggestion for any kind of use for the prison system, cause I find the suggested use to be utter shite
Oh, I’d definitely suggest showing the account names and dates of their execution.
as cool as it would be to have that information public, I think there would be privacy issues as well as potential other issues displaying personal information regardless of real vs fake. Same thing would apply to character name as there could be issues with what people name themselves in-game.
Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.
I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?
I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.
Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?
I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
My intention is to replacing an automated punishment system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.
I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?
I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.
Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?
I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.
My intention is to turn an automated punishment system to a player driven one. How far and how long the punishment goes in prison, i not care..
The way how I understand the dynamic of the world on a server, I think your suggestion is already considered.
That's right. Many (maybe even most) systems and concepts in AOC follow this vision. Only the flagging system does not seem to me to follow this vision.
Regarding the automated punishment system:
The corruption will not be a big punishment, at least not for the first kill, because more levels of corruption are needed to make the player visible on maps and help bounty hunters find the corrupted player.
Beside the corruption, there is negative reputation, which will be gained when players attack and destroy caravans. Maybe there are other ways to get negative reputation too, which I do not know. @Dygz know much more about the game and he can correct me.
These are some things that can stay in with a jail system. Perhaps that you can only get into a jail if u have a high corruption level.
Regarding suggestion to be a player driven one:
The corruption system will not prevent players to harm and the game offers the tools for players to take action when needed:
Government officials have wide-ranging leadership powers.[30] Node policies grant certain types of actions that a node government can take:[31]
Mark foreign citizens of other nodes as enemies of the state.[32][33]
Until then, this is correct, but the consequences (punishment) of such actions are automated.
Regarding suggestion have Jail:
For practical reasons, is hard to go and capture a player, drag him in front of the jury and then put him in jail, because that player might log out and log in again when the jury is not online.
But once the jury (the government officials) decided to mark that player as enemy of the state, there must be a way for that player to clean his status.
It doesn't have to work that way. For such a system, there would be 1000 possibilities of implementation and how it would be integrated into the remaining systems.
As soon as you become visible for bounty hunters, it can also be enough for the bounty hunter kill you. Instead of being revived at the next cemetery, you immediately land in the judge Halle.
That could be a quest, like going to an NPC and begging for forgiveness and then accepting to do some work, which would benefit the citizens in that node. That work could be like collecting materials or crafting things in a detention center. He can leave and return but only after he finished the grind, will he be absolved of his crimes.
This is a cool idea. Up to a certain corruption degree you should have this option. I never said anything else. Before you come to jail, this can be an options or afterwards.
As already said several times, I don't want to remove and replace everything from the current system. I just don't want automated punishment (such as dropping loot, weakness debuffs). To reduce his corruption by grinding is not a punishment for my understanding. This is work to prevent punishment (dropping loot, debuffs or jail)
Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.
I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?
I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.
Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?
I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.
I do not necessarily speak of the current corruption system that "forces me". This game would have 1000 systems and features that can feel like a "force".
Also what you tell me can also apply to you. You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about jail.
However. For one type of player, system/feature XY is a "force", and for the other it is the gaming experience he wants.
I just don't want automated punishment (such as dropping loot, weakness debuffs). To reduce his corruption by grinding is not a punishment for my understanding. This is work to prevent punishment (dropping loot, debuffs or jail)
You still drop stuff on normal death too. And your stats decrease too, if you "delevel" by the way of XP debt. Dropping gear is just a logical upscaling of punishment for dying for criminals.
And grinding off your corruption is not a punishment, it's a way to avoid said punishment. And the BH system is there to make that avoidance harder.
Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.
I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?
I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.
Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?
I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.
I do not necessarily speak of the current corruption system that "forces me". This game would have 1000 systems and features that can feel like a "force".
Also what you tell me can also apply to you. You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about jail.
However. For one type of player, system/feature XY is a "force", and for the other it is the gaming experience he wants.
Imagine trying to turn it around on me, jail isn't in the game no one wants that, that is only you wanting a different system that is terribly designed as well.
If you don't like how games are designed don't play it, it is a game and you will have to follow the systems set. Sytems that people have been interested in AoC for that very reason , if you want some weird game with no systems and only player driven you might want tot try star citizen or a rp forum.
I just don't want automated punishment (such as dropping loot, weakness debuffs). To reduce his corruption by grinding is not a punishment for my understanding. This is work to prevent punishment (dropping loot, debuffs or jail)
You still drop stuff on normal death too. And your stats decrease too, if you "delevel" by the way of XP debt. Dropping gear is just a logical upscaling of punishment for dying for criminals.
I don't see why the upscaling the dropping loot is logical for a criminal. But I don't want to say that a jail system would be logical. It has nothing to do with logic. Nothing has a necessity here.
Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.
I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?
I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.
Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?
I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.
I do not necessarily speak of the current corruption system that "forces me". This game would have 1000 systems and features that can feel like a "force".
Also what you tell me can also apply to you. You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about jail.
However. For one type of player, system/feature XY is a "force", and for the other it is the gaming experience he wants.
Imagine trying to turn it around on me, jail isn't in the game no one wants that, that is only you wanting a different system that is terribly designed as well.
If you don't like how games are designed don't play it, it is a game and you will have to follow the systems set. Sytems that people have been interested in AoC for that very reason , if you want some weird game with no systems and only player driven you might want tot try star citizen or a rp forum.
I love mostly how AOC is designed. It seems to me to be the mmorpg that the players give the freedom, possibility, responsibility and social interactions back that are missing in almost all today's mmorpg. This is the vision that I see in this game.
Only the corruption system does not seem to me to follow this fundermental concept of the game. It is automated and except to the involvement of bounty hunters, has no further influence on other players or the game world. It looks so isolated compared to the openness and and influence width of other systems in the game. So what you call "weird game" concept is the actual vision of the game, I claim. Or do you see it differently?
And even if they don't change that, I will still play AoC.
I don't see why the upscaling the dropping loot is logical for a criminal. But I don't want to say that a jail system would be logical. It has nothing to do with logic. Nothing has a necessity here.
It has logic in the design's intent. Steven's trying to promote pvping so dying flagged reduces your penalties. Steven wants pve to have its own risks so dying to a mob unflagged has higher penalties than dying in pvp. And Steven wants to deter people from attacking pacifists, while still allowing such activities, so dying red has ever-increasing penalties (volume-wise, even though multiplier stays the same). And to prevent genocides as much as possible, high PK counts have the highest possible penalties of dropping gear. That looks like a logical progression of penalties, considering the design of the game.
But if I drop/lose stats during pvp/pve and then all of a sudden go to jail after killing someone, that feels like a complete sidestep of the system rather than a progress within it.
I don't see why the upscaling the dropping loot is logical for a criminal. But I don't want to say that a jail system would be logical. It has nothing to do with logic. Nothing has a necessity here.
It has logic in the design's intent. Steven's trying to promote pvping so dying flagged reduces your penalties. Steven wants pve to have its own risks so dying to a mob unflagged has higher penalties than dying in pvp. And Steven wants to deter people from attacking pacifists, while still allowing such activities, so dying red has ever-increasing penalties (volume-wise, even though multiplier stays the same).
I would call that practical, not logical. But no matter. Don't let us argue about Sematics.
And to prevent genocides as much as possible, high PK counts have the highest possible penalties of dropping gear.
The penalties increases with every level of corruption, this structure can also be maintained with the jail system. The higher your corruption, the higher your minimum time in prison. It then takes longer to work through it.
But if I drop/lose stats during pvp/pve and then all of a sudden go to jail after killing someone, that feels like a complete sidestep of the system rather than a progress within it.
thats right. how i said it. To be able to work out the corruption would also be in my interest. Be it outside or inside the jail.
Except the current design makes it exciting and an in-game feature, while jail makes it boring and takes you out of gameplay.
As I said, such a jail system can be added in 1000 different ways. Here too, the excitement of flee from bounty hunters and reduce your corruption before you are killed can stay. This does not contradict each other.
So instead of reducing your time in the prison of work (as I suggested at the beginning), you could also reduce your time before you are in jail (as it is in the current system). So far until you are no longer corrupted. However, if a BH catches you or if you are killed( while ur still corrupted), you will not revive at the next cemetery, but in the judge Halle.
I just want the punishment to be decided by players (BH or decision of the jury)
I just want the punishment to be decided by players (BH or decision of the jury)
And in my experience ~30% of karma (corruption) removal was done by other players, either by the victim themselves or by someone else. And the only reason that percentage is low was because there was no BH system and the karma removal was fairly quick. With a proper balancing, those 30% would probably come closer to 70-80%, with the remainder being just grinded off on mobs.
That sounds like a player-enacted punishment within the current system. Someone around the PKer decided to punish him and did so. It is no different from some randoms just saying "oh yeah, he's totally guilty so give him 10h of jail time", except it takes way less time for all the parties involved, it dishes out a bigger punishment (XP loss, potential gear loss, and time required to restore either of those things) when the prison system would only provide a time loss as punishment, which, to a "professional" PKer, is not a punishment at all.
Azherae and several other people on different platforms have already stated that even the current harsh penalties wouldn't stop them from killing whoever they want. Spending a few hours grinding, whatever it is you'd need to grind in a prison, would be an even smaller deterrent for them, except now their gear stays the same and their lvl stays the same so they're completely free to just come back to the exact same spot and continue genociding whoever they want.
And if you combine the two systems and/or make the scaling of prison time give those genocirders days-worth of grinding - you'd be pretty much removing them from the game that they paid a sub to play. And that is nowhere near good game design. And even that would not stop them from repeating the same offense in the future.
Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.
I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?
I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.
Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?
I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.
I do not necessarily speak of the current corruption system that "forces me". This game would have 1000 systems and features that can feel like a "force".
Also what you tell me can also apply to you. You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about jail.
However. For one type of player, system/feature XY is a "force", and for the other it is the gaming experience he wants.
Imagine trying to turn it around on me, jail isn't in the game no one wants that, that is only you wanting a different system that is terribly designed as well.
If you don't like how games are designed don't play it, it is a game and you will have to follow the systems set. Sytems that people have been interested in AoC for that very reason , if you want some weird game with no systems and only player driven you might want tot try star citizen or a rp forum.
I love mostly how AOC is designed. It seems to me to be the mmorpg that the players give the freedom, possibility, responsibility and social interactions back that are missing in almost all today's mmorpg. This is the vision that I see in this game.
Only the corruption system does not seem to me to follow this fundermental concept of the game. It is automated and except to the involvement of bounty hunters, has no further influence on other players or the game world. It looks so isolated compared to the openness and and influence width of other systems in the game. So what you call "weird game" concept is the actual vision of the game, I claim. Or do you see it differently?
And even if they don't change that, I will still play AoC.
I don't know why you think it is automated it is player choice on what they want to do, design is done for a reason. If you do something it has consequences but you are allowed to do it as much as you want within reason. You can make all the choices and stay as apart of the world and continue to create content while being hunted. It is player choice to deal with you or not and send a execution squad else you can work off the corruption and do what you want in the game.
Yup your idea is a jail system that can put people int here for a whole day if they pvp a lot. That honestly is a terrible joke, the only reason to take a player out of the world and STOP them from playing is because your system design has flaws and your solution is to not allow them to play the game. It doesn't get any more automated than that, the jury is simply something that can be manipulated for you to be able to potentially grief players harder if you can control it.
As far as I'm concerned if there is an immense red player with corruption the jury already exist, its the squad of BH that will hunt them down as well with plenty of other players. Them dropping gear and being pinged on the map is the motivation for players to act else people might not even care and leave them to continue to pk people.
What i know is you don't want stat dampening and you want to have a moment where you can kill a ton of people until you die and not lose gear. You aren't going to get any closer to that idea by suggesting jail or bad systems, advocate for hardcore pvp servers.
I just want the punishment to be decided by players (BH or decision of the jury)
And in my experience ~30% of karma (corruption) removal was done by other players, either by the victim themselves or by someone else. And the only reason that percentage is low was because there was no BH system and the karma removal was fairly quick. With a proper balancing, those 30% would probably come closer to 70-80%, with the remainder being just grinded off on mobs.
That sounds like a player-enacted punishment within the current system. Someone around the PKer decided to punish him and did so. It is no different from some randoms just saying "oh yeah, he's totally guilty so give him 10h of jail time", except it takes way less time for all the parties involved, it dishes out a bigger punishment (XP loss, potential gear loss, and time required to restore either of those things) when the prison system would only provide a time loss as punishment, which, to a "professional" PKer, is not a punishment at all.
That seems right to me. Until then, it is a player-enacted punishment. To be killed by others or BH´s is only one part of the punishment (if you see this as punishment). The addition of losing XP, dropping more loot and downgrading stats has not been decided by any player, but by the system. That, only that I want to replace with the jail (or something else that is pure player driven). Everything else can stay that way. You then not only have players around you who want to kill u and bounty hunters, but also a jail with a jury who decide how long you stay in the prison.
In my understanding, thats is more player driven. The interaction and communication that can result from such a jail system cannot be compared to the losing XP, dropping more loot and downgrading stats.
In my understanding, thats is more player driven. The interaction and communication that can result from such a jail system cannot be compared to the losing XP, dropping more loot and downgrading stats.
And in my understanding 5 minutes (if that) of interaction for hours of "punishment" is way smaller, relatively speaking, than 1-2 minutes of direct player-enacted punishment.
Prison is still a "system-controlled punishment", because it's the system that's keeping you in prison, not players. While in the current system, players are the jury and the executioner. The system only does the basic job of penalizing your death, if players decide to kill you as punishment for your crimes.
If you're so hellbent on introducing even more player activity into the equation - make the PK count removal quest be tied to your "jury". Make the high count PKers work with other people to absolve their sins. This would add more interaction, while not removing players from the game.
In my understanding, thats is more player driven. The interaction and communication that can result from such a jail system cannot be compared to the losing XP, dropping more loot and downgrading stats.
And in my understanding 5 minutes (if that) of interaction for hours of "punishment" is way smaller, relatively speaking, than 1-2 minutes of direct player-enacted punishment.
Prison is still a "system-controlled punishment", because it's the system that's keeping you in prison, not players. While in the current system, players are the jury and the executioner. The system only does the basic job of penalizing your death, if players decide to kill you as punishment for your crimes.
As for that, I said at the beginning that you could break out of jail in AA. There would have to be further consequences for such a case.
But I think I now understand what you mean. In both cases, it is the players who TRIGGER the punishment. But what I think is that more communication and interaction would be in a jail system. It is an addition to all the interactions and communications that are there in the current system and could be built into other systems (in political terms) more. Especially the higher possibility of abuse by organized groups or guilds is the type of interaction that makes friendships and enmities rise.
If you're so hellbent on introducing even more player activity into the equation - make the PK count removal quest be tied to your "jury". Make the high count PKers work with other people to absolve their sins. This would add more interaction, while not removing players from the game.
This is the kind of suggestions that I like to hear. That might be a good alternative. Can you describe this more precisely what you mean by "tied to your "jury ""?
Comments
they dont have show the account name or anything, just the main character model or something, lol.
lots of cool/grim options to display them somewhere in the world to watch them slowly decompose or remain for whatever duration.
And then the reported player can get out of jail immediately if they were afk and got wrongfully accused, but they'd still get pinged to GMs for the report (in the case that botters can operate their characters well enough to get out of jail immediately).
Hehe - yeah, I don’t see the mmo player-base abusing that capability at all.
Huh - that green is mining in our area. Report, report, report - now we’re clear and no corruption. Yoink! 🤪
And obviously all of this is under the pretense that there's a live GM that would get pinged by all those reports and could monitor the situation live.
Mmm. Now think of this at scale. How many live GMs are you expecting Steven to hire?
That's the usual case with live GMing, so it's on Intrepid to setup the tools required for those GMs to maximize their output w/o burning themselves out. Some automation of the imprisoning here and there, with GM pings for later checkup. Some abuse prevention of "if reported the same person twice within some period of time - turn off reporting. If reported multiple people in the span of some short period of time - jail for 5 mins. If continues to do so - jail longer and ping GMs".
Stuff like that can alleviate some of the scale issues, but GM's job is to look at everything they need to look at, of which there'll be a ton.
As someone who's written bots before: Waste of time. No bot I'dve written is gonna have trouble with any reasonable task you request short of actual captchas and even those aren't exactly perfect.
As a player who's paid the slightest modicum of attention to New World, and the whole "report-spam the enemy guild right before the battle"? This is just gonna get triggered at critical moments. Three people reporting your main tank, as their guild mates close in to steal your raid boss? It doesn't even matter if your tank can complete the task.
At the end of the day, if you had the GMs online to monitor and respond immediately to something like this, you wouldn't need the jail. The GM would just ban the bots when you report them.
Systems like this are more effort than they're worth, and don't stop enough bots to justify the cost or the annoyance to legitimate players. Add on any potential for abuse, and you've got a non-starter. It's better to focus one's resources on other methods of dealing with the problem. Proactive automated and manual detection, review, and response is still the optimal counter to the problem of bots as a whole.
The problem for us forum-goers is that we can't just discuss good ideas for how to detect or counter bots for real. It'd just give the bot writers more hints for what to evade. At the end of the day, we have to trust the people at Intrepid.
Exactly, so why give them one more thing they are going to have to prioritize and juggle for literally no upside to any players involved when there’s already a planned automated system to manage the same behavior? 🤨
But yes, active GMs and proper anti-bot system are supposed to prevent this stuff from happening, but we all know that they won't be 100% effective.
Either way, this was just a suggestion for any kind of use for the prison system, cause I find the suggested use to be utter shite
Bwhahaha! 👊
as cool as it would be to have that information public, I think there would be privacy issues as well as potential other issues displaying personal information regardless of real vs fake. Same thing would apply to character name as there could be issues with what people name themselves in-game.
I can understand. And I don't want to be punished by an automated system. In such a large MMORPG there will probably be more systems or features that "force us" to something. In some points, the force is necessary to give players a certain gaming experience. An MMORPG that does not "force" you have no specific gaming experience either.
I am not primarily suggesting this jail system to satisfying Rper. the RPer was just a addition reason. It is about replacing an automated system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
My intention is to replacing an automated punishment system with a player driven one that gave the players responsibility and decision -making. if u have a other idea that give us that, then good. its dont need to be a prison.
You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about corruption.
That's right. Many (maybe even most) systems and concepts in AOC follow this vision. Only the flagging system does not seem to me to follow this vision.
These are some things that can stay in with a jail system. Perhaps that you can only get into a jail if u have a high corruption level.
Until then, this is correct, but the consequences (punishment) of such actions are automated.
It doesn't have to work that way. For such a system, there would be 1000 possibilities of implementation and how it would be integrated into the remaining systems.
As soon as you become visible for bounty hunters, it can also be enough for the bounty hunter kill you. Instead of being revived at the next cemetery, you immediately land in the judge Halle.
This is a cool idea. Up to a certain corruption degree you should have this option. I never said anything else. Before you come to jail, this can be an options or afterwards.
As already said several times, I don't want to remove and replace everything from the current system. I just don't want automated punishment (such as dropping loot, weakness debuffs). To reduce his corruption by grinding is not a punishment for my understanding. This is work to prevent punishment (dropping loot, debuffs or jail)
I do not necessarily speak of the current corruption system that "forces me". This game would have 1000 systems and features that can feel like a "force".
Also what you tell me can also apply to you. You aren't forced, just don't pk someone and you will never have to worry about jail.
However. For one type of player, system/feature XY is a "force", and for the other it is the gaming experience he wants.
And grinding off your corruption is not a punishment, it's a way to avoid said punishment. And the BH system is there to make that avoidance harder.
Imagine trying to turn it around on me, jail isn't in the game no one wants that, that is only you wanting a different system that is terribly designed as well.
If you don't like how games are designed don't play it, it is a game and you will have to follow the systems set. Sytems that people have been interested in AoC for that very reason , if you want some weird game with no systems and only player driven you might want tot try star citizen or a rp forum.
I don't see why the upscaling the dropping loot is logical for a criminal. But I don't want to say that a jail system would be logical. It has nothing to do with logic. Nothing has a necessity here.
thats right. how i said it. To be able to work out the corruption would also be in my interest. Be it outside or inside the jail.
I love mostly how AOC is designed. It seems to me to be the mmorpg that the players give the freedom, possibility, responsibility and social interactions back that are missing in almost all today's mmorpg. This is the vision that I see in this game.
Only the corruption system does not seem to me to follow this fundermental concept of the game. It is automated and except to the involvement of bounty hunters, has no further influence on other players or the game world. It looks so isolated compared to the openness and and influence width of other systems in the game. So what you call "weird game" concept is the actual vision of the game, I claim. Or do you see it differently?
And even if they don't change that, I will still play AoC.
But if I drop/lose stats during pvp/pve and then all of a sudden go to jail after killing someone, that feels like a complete sidestep of the system rather than a progress within it. Except the current design makes it exciting and an in-game feature, while jail makes it boring and takes you out of gameplay.
I would call that practical, not logical. But no matter. Don't let us argue about Sematics.
The penalties increases with every level of corruption, this structure can also be maintained with the jail system. The higher your corruption, the higher your minimum time in prison. It then takes longer to work through it.
This should also largely prevent genocides.
As I said, such a jail system can be added in 1000 different ways. Here too, the excitement of flee from bounty hunters and reduce your corruption before you are killed can stay. This does not contradict each other.
So instead of reducing your time in the prison of work (as I suggested at the beginning), you could also reduce your time before you are in jail (as it is in the current system). So far until you are no longer corrupted. However, if a BH catches you or if you are killed( while ur still corrupted), you will not revive at the next cemetery, but in the judge Halle.
I just want the punishment to be decided by players (BH or decision of the jury)
That sounds like a player-enacted punishment within the current system. Someone around the PKer decided to punish him and did so. It is no different from some randoms just saying "oh yeah, he's totally guilty so give him 10h of jail time", except it takes way less time for all the parties involved, it dishes out a bigger punishment (XP loss, potential gear loss, and time required to restore either of those things) when the prison system would only provide a time loss as punishment, which, to a "professional" PKer, is not a punishment at all.
Azherae and several other people on different platforms have already stated that even the current harsh penalties wouldn't stop them from killing whoever they want. Spending a few hours grinding, whatever it is you'd need to grind in a prison, would be an even smaller deterrent for them, except now their gear stays the same and their lvl stays the same so they're completely free to just come back to the exact same spot and continue genociding whoever they want.
And if you combine the two systems and/or make the scaling of prison time give those genocirders days-worth of grinding - you'd be pretty much removing them from the game that they paid a sub to play. And that is nowhere near good game design. And even that would not stop them from repeating the same offense in the future.
I don't know why you think it is automated it is player choice on what they want to do, design is done for a reason. If you do something it has consequences but you are allowed to do it as much as you want within reason. You can make all the choices and stay as apart of the world and continue to create content while being hunted. It is player choice to deal with you or not and send a execution squad else you can work off the corruption and do what you want in the game.
Yup your idea is a jail system that can put people int here for a whole day if they pvp a lot. That honestly is a terrible joke, the only reason to take a player out of the world and STOP them from playing is because your system design has flaws and your solution is to not allow them to play the game. It doesn't get any more automated than that, the jury is simply something that can be manipulated for you to be able to potentially grief players harder if you can control it.
As far as I'm concerned if there is an immense red player with corruption the jury already exist, its the squad of BH that will hunt them down as well with plenty of other players. Them dropping gear and being pinged on the map is the motivation for players to act else people might not even care and leave them to continue to pk people.
What i know is you don't want stat dampening and you want to have a moment where you can kill a ton of people until you die and not lose gear. You aren't going to get any closer to that idea by suggesting jail or bad systems, advocate for hardcore pvp servers.
That seems right to me. Until then, it is a player-enacted punishment. To be killed by others or BH´s is only one part of the punishment (if you see this as punishment). The addition of losing XP, dropping more loot and downgrading stats has not been decided by any player, but by the system. That, only that I want to replace with the jail (or something else that is pure player driven). Everything else can stay that way. You then not only have players around you who want to kill u and bounty hunters, but also a jail with a jury who decide how long you stay in the prison.
In my understanding, thats is more player driven. The interaction and communication that can result from such a jail system cannot be compared to the losing XP, dropping more loot and downgrading stats.
Prison is still a "system-controlled punishment", because it's the system that's keeping you in prison, not players. While in the current system, players are the jury and the executioner. The system only does the basic job of penalizing your death, if players decide to kill you as punishment for your crimes.
If you're so hellbent on introducing even more player activity into the equation - make the PK count removal quest be tied to your "jury". Make the high count PKers work with other people to absolve their sins. This would add more interaction, while not removing players from the game.
As for that, I said at the beginning that you could break out of jail in AA. There would have to be further consequences for such a case.
But I think I now understand what you mean. In both cases, it is the players who TRIGGER the punishment. But what I think is that more communication and interaction would be in a jail system. It is an addition to all the interactions and communications that are there in the current system and could be built into other systems (in political terms) more. Especially the higher possibility of abuse by organized groups or guilds is the type of interaction that makes friendships and enmities rise.
This is the kind of suggestions that I like to hear. That might be a good alternative. Can you describe this more precisely what you mean by "tied to your "jury ""?