If Steven has said several times that Verra is flat, why the constant use of globes?
"The Verran planet is not flat. You may not see a curvature on the horizon in this, but from a lore perspective the universe in Verra does adhere to some basic physics and laws of physics that we experience in the real world, which means it is not flat" - Steven Sharif
Verra is in fact NOT flat, nor has Steven said it was. In-game, you will not see the planet's curvature and there will not be world-wrapping. With that said, in terms of lore, Verra is a planet and similarly to Earth, a globe ^_^ I hope this clears up any misunderstandings!
I think map making should be a part of the crafting system. Someone would have to harvest tree's, process them to paper, and then make maps. Different levels of skill in map making means different ways for the map to look. A basic map might offer just an outline. A higher level skilled map maker might be able to fully map dungeons along with having creatures listed where they spawn and what types. So the higher skill level maps would sell well to other players. And this also helps create more player vs player interaction, as the best map makers will be a mix between dungeon explorers and crafting. So while a normal crafter might go all out and never really do combat, relying on others to find rare loot, map crafting might be less severe in terms of required skill points so that even a normal adventurer can max out both their killing and map making. At least in my mind. I am sure there would need some sort of balance, but making maps a sort of thing you can buy from other players would be epic. And perhaps a super simple "overworld" map you can buy from NPC's that you can fill out yourself "basic" wise as you play, maybe simple fog of war, but maps created my map makers ("cartographers") would be highly sought after and every guild would have that one guy who is the map making king.
I wouldn't mind having a map that doesn't update automatically when something changes. I would want some kind of indication that the map changes though, the out of date section grayed out or something of that sort.
I'm not against it, but iam also not for it in a big way. Its one of those things where it has to be good or else its bad. I think it gives explorations a new turn but it may also mean that if i come into a new zone i would find a map before i go explore. Can someone be a troll and sell a wrong map? Can i mark things for myself on my map? Will it show quests and where/how to do them? Can i tell if resources are gone or changes when the node has leveled? Can i see PVP markers / hostiles or guild protected area? Are there hidden paths or caves that i can mark or do i have to find someone to mark for me? Like i dont know how this will work, but if it works well, then great iam all in, cant wait to see what you guys come up whit.
I think it could be novel and engaging for AOC’s map to progressively update with player exploration and deconstructivity update with node changes and world events.
Example scenario:
A player gains map vision over a dormant area after discovery. After players trigger an event, the node changes to the effects of its geography and contents. In result, the map area would be obstructed by a specialized visual which signifies that a world shaping event has occurred and the land is no longer as you last experienced it.
To gain an updated map vision, you can:
return and re-explore the area.
transcribe maps from a friend who has already done so.
fill in bits as described from news, word of mouth, or far-sight magic.
Honestly, I think that the Fallout paradigm is my favorite when it comes to map exploration. Start in your spawn location and when you come within a certain distance of POIs, you gain an indicator denoting that location. It also allows NPCs or questgivers to describe locations to players that can act as directional guides.
AoC could also leverage its incredible draw distance is make things that are visible to a player on screen pop as icons on the player map. It might not make sense for the specifics to show on the mini-map but a simple '?' could be used as a visual indicator that the toon saw something the player can explore.
When it comes to map updates, I think that presence in the Node should be a requisite for keeping the map up to date. As a player, it would certainly push me to move between zones if that meant it provided the most up to date information, especially with regards to things like Node level, trading information, and other relevant information. That said, I think that a "rumor" type system might be an interesting inclusion that can help drive player movement. As an example, if you wander in from the wilderness into a Node, a pop-up appears that says something like "You overhear a merchant saying <<Node X>> elected a new mayor/became a Metropolis/is looking for caravan drivers" or "A drover is complaining that they couldn't buy any <<resource>> in <<Node Y>>". It could even be something that guilds or other organizations can take part in as part of an economic campaign or other interest.
I don't have any suggestion of what and how to improve, but will share some things I find relevant for engagement:
Always opt in for innovation - if you succeed, that's great. If you don't - you'll create an example for others (to be inspired and improve, or - not to do it that way) thus improving the MMO maps.
The exploration feel in games like Don't Starve Together / Minecraft is just amazing. If you would somehow make a map or a part of it random generated - that could be insane. You would never know what you will find there. Randomness is key in my eyes, because who like a "hidden"/"rare" elite monster that always spawns in the same spot...(=
If you somehow make internet guides unusable - you are the winners of the century. People would actually need to play the game themselves. Versus - riding on a piggy back with a guide.
I would prefer a self-updating map. Other options would potentially be fine but they would have to add some entertainment value or you're just kind of saying "work harder at playing", which I don't think is the philosophy here.
Dynamic, changing map with map crafting and even map related skills / spells would potentially keep the excitement and mystery of early gameplay going constantly. This would be more than awesome and first of its kind.
Getting the honeymoon of early gameplay to continue in the endgame must be one of the big challenges of MMOs. In my experience nobody else has done this so far but dynamic map gameplay and evolving online world has all the potential for this.
I feel like it's important to have a cartography skill that requires you to take time doing some sort of mini game or in game activity to create and update maps over time. I feel like maps should be something cartographers can physically craft that are also expanded through the crafting system (Minecraft is a half decent example of a map crafting system) and also intrinsically tied to the economy in all regions of the game world due to their importance, being physical objects instead of something you just pull up magically out of your back pocket after hitting "m".
The reason I say this is tied to the economy is because these maps of course become obsolete over time as the game world actively changes, and with not all players being interested in making their own maps, it adds extra value to the crafting system and cartography skill. Map quality could also be an important aspect to consider, as players could potentially buy "crude" or "low" quality maps from npc vendors to get a rough lay of the land in a given area, or perhaps specific maps are given to players by npc's as part of quest lines, where players use the crude form map to guide them to a specific location.
I did see players mentioning fake landmarks and the inclusion of other false information on maps, which would be a fantastic idea for large scale espionage, or even small group pirates who have hidden stashes in the game world and use maps with symbolic forms of encryption as reminders of where the caches wait.
Either way, it seems like a waste to just have the standard hit "m" and have the map pop up mechanic like every other massively multiplayer online role playing game has implemented into their user interface. Ashes of Creation is something totally different, and I believe it's map system is no different than any other system.
ps. Please add controller support. If Square Enix can do it well, so you can you guys. I believe in you!
Sorry for the late and long reply just saw the email with link to discussion.
I think AOC should have dynamic maps my only worry is scope creep. However, if it is done how I describe below I think it could only be added later if you start with a static map and add it once someone has fully explored the world to make it feel immersive.
Secondary skill – I think everybody should have a secondary skill, in my example I will call it “exploration”. Everybody should start out with max learnable skill of 100, cartographers can raise max to 300. Your exploration skill will determine how well you update your own map, this would be done automatically as you explore the world. If you are in combat or riding a mount at full speed through an area your exploration skill would take a 50% debuff while updating your map, due to you not being able to focus as much. This would lead to certain players wanting to explore more.
Quest for anyone (daily)-I think that every town should have a map board in the town that has a daily quest. By completing the quest you update the town map with what you have explored within, the lesser of, the last 24 hours or since the last time you have completed the quest. Time frame makes it were you would only miss one daily quest if you found something awesome and did not want to share with everybody. Quest reward should be based on your exploration skill, will determine how detailed it is, and how much you have explored. This will help to bring people to the towns for potential player interaction and make it fairly easy to update maps.
Quest from Library – I think that T6 scientific nodes should have quests for cartographer at library with reward based on quality and quantity, which would likely be more than player reward at town maps.
Players can also complete quest to update map if they have a certain exploration skill level, to ensure quality map, if they have high priority poi like new dungeon or highes tier gatherable.
Quest from towns – If an area is unexplored, which can happen for many reasons like high monster level, and all surrounding areas are explored then mayor has option of starting quest for cartographer to go explore that area for high rewards.
Town maps – Players can click on the town map to update their own map for free. However, it will only update map for town zoi excluding the zoi of the town it is a vassal of, i.e. higher level towns and appropriate level gatherables. Lets say for my example there are 6 tiers of gatherables. So a T3 town would show all T2 and lower gatherables on the map. Allowing a need to buy cartographer maps to get the best.
Guild maps – Should be located in town by guild bank or where you go to create guild, not sure of details on how guilds work in game. Allow all guild members to update. Would create a need to have cartographer in guild. Guild owner can set permission on who can update their map from guild map.
Maps inside dungeons –
All player maps should update depending on their skill level but only adds poi of where monsters are
Cartographers, if skill level high enough, can have their maps update with the number and type of enemies.
Fog of war –
Starting out I believe the map should only have outlines of obvious things. Outline of land mass, mountains, and any large bodies of water should be shown without details. Traditional fog of war should be applied to all areas at 0% transparency, large bodies of water and mountains should have 30% transparency. As you explore map opens up.
If you buy a map then area should update to have fog of war at 90% and land features transparency at 10%, barely obscure but lets you know you have not actually explored.
If area unexplored for a long time transparency of fog of war and land features should be at 50%, or amount where you can barely make out old land marks since you have previously explored it.
If re explore area should be able to rediscover at increased rate, as long as area has not changed.
Libraries, I am under assumption will only be in scientific node.
T6 Scientific nodes have the option for all citizens, or players with fee, to explore all maps older than 3 weeks to see how it has changed.
Allow cartographers to pay huge fee to get access to all info, as to were regular players are limited to 1 tier lower gatherables. This will allow cartographers maps to be important and highly sought after. Cartographers can blury map but not update their map unless they make a map, causing them to pay the fee, and then using the consumable map to update their own.
Mayor, town leaders access to town maps. I think that they should have an interactive window that reveals the tier of gatherables equal to their town level when their mouse hovers over the area but does not reveal the entire map at once. This allows them to have access to more information but make it difficult to share maps online.
Updating maps
All players maps automatically update with their exploration skill level and how much they explore of the actual map.
Cartographers, assuming higher level exploration skill, will have better maps just from exploring.
Players can update map from town map, will only be zoi of town minus zoi of town it is a vassal of.
If no T6 scientific node will create a need for cartographers to go to surrounding towns and update personal maps to then sell.
Making/selling maps.
This would be the difficult part for game makers.
Description would need to include name of maker, quality level dependent on skill, how new the data is, what zones are included in the update, plus more I am sure I can’t think of.
Basically, what I feel I am being asked is -- Do I want the $100 in my hand (the map) or what is behind door number 3. Not really fair to ask this question since I have no idea what ""more innovative ways"" may include. Also, an answer would greatly depend upon whether a type of cartography skill is in thoughts for game inclusion. Could at least offer a list of options/possibilities that one could choose from - like or dislike. So much is in the dark. Presently my first intuitive choice is to respond with --> its working - don't try to fix something not broken. Leave it as it is so game will be launch ready sooner!!!
I think once one has discovered a portion of the map, that portion should stay revealed forever. However in case of special events, like a wheather event, a mist for example, that portion of the map that is covered with a mist should stay hidden for the duration of that event. Or another example of an event is an erupting volcano destroying landscape and leaving the map in a disfigured state that one can only "fix" by revisiting that zone. A fog of war before exploration is a must in my opinion.
If I understood the concept of the game correctly it is more of an evolving game that changes certain areas depending on the state of the node, like suddenly having a cave entrance in a mountain appear after a node evolved.
That being sad not only do I think it should not show what got changed only because you visited a far away area once, it should also not show directly what got changed in your surrounding area.
Let's say the map will be shown entirely white in areas you have not visited before. When you discover those areas the first time it is shown in full color but if a node developes or evolves it is going to have a grey mist in the area surrounding the node which roughly shows how it looked like when you first discovered the area. This alone would make me want to go out and discover what got changed. This scenario would make it really exciting even late in the game because you can always discover something new.
It could also be somewhat important for future castle sieges. It would be kinda boring to me to already see all the positions of the important buildings in a distant castle just because I was once there when it was a little village. Having to go there once it is a castle and to scout the important buildings yourself would make the strategic aspect in preperation of a castle siege way more exciting.
I can also see some events being indicated through the map. Let's say there is a sandstorm coming that indicates a world boss event that could be shown through a yellow-ish mist blocking the surrounding area of the event. Once you are inside the sandstorm you get a "disoriented" debuff which either disables the map and mini map or makes it just impossible to determine your exact position.
I think having a game that changes the map all the time through node development should also have a different way to display the map than all those old mmos.
I also like the modern way of a map that the game Black Desert online has in which it shows the current weather in certain areas like a rain cloud slowly moving from left to the right or just showing snow in certain areas.
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zammwichMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I'd like to see something more innovative; the world is very different from a standard mmo world, I think the mapping should reflect that.
Would be cool to maybe see a time leak. Basically a tear in time and space in certain areas that allow you to experience that same area through the past. Like a temporary tear in time that allows the area to change for like a week and you can experience that area from that specific point in time uncovering lore and meeting people of the past and experiencing battle from the past and then once that week is up the tear in time closes and it goes back to normal. Would love to uncover lore that way.
I'd rather have a scenario where people need to small talk to hear what the geo-political situation (what node leveld up, what node was destroyed, how trade is affected) is right now, maybe have City Newspapers and medieval-style public announcements, and stuff like that, rather than a boring, spoon-fed map/feed in regards to the most recent geo-political changes.
This is a difficult question for me, because I both hate and love certain aspects of both.
That said, I can't imagine Ashes being quite dynamic ENOUGH to update in a way that will physically matter to the map's appearances other than 'adding Metros'. This isn't MineCraft where you can actually change the landscape and have to update your map.
Having players able to make markers on their maps and then sell the 'marked' maps is my opinion of how this can be done best. This is a real ingame work process and has some good options for people, particularly since we would no longer be tied to what the mainmap thinks is important.
As always please reference FFXI's magic map markers.
If I find a boss, and I mark the location of that boss and a few other things in the sub-area, I wanna be able to copy/trade/sell that map with the markings to people. Is it a lot of database space? Maybe, but not MORE than any other 'actual map stuff' I could think of that I'd care about.
I REALLY REALLY like this idea. I think it could be cool to have a meta-exploration market of sorts where you can sell your maps to other players. What would be cool on top of this, would be if they were static. So if a node progressed/changed, the map WOULDN'T show that, and that makes part of your journey a mystery always. You'd always be thinking to yourself (I hope I don't end up in orc territory or that this node is still t3 for x service/resources).
Not sure if someone commented already or if I’m late. How about making the map a system of its own. In the sense that it can be used as currency to exchange between players or maybe npcs. Maybe it’s a mutual trade or you pay someone who’s traveled. By only updating your map with the most up to date information in said exchange. Something like that would be cool, also a good outlet for money or material sinks. After all information is always the most valuable resource.
I would like to see the map system like this:
- You only get information about nodes you have explored before (with exceptions of events and others mentioned below)
- The current node you are in is always up to date. This is because you can see what is going on and you would realistically hear from others about local events and changes.
- Each adjacent node to the one you are in is partially updated (providing you have explored it) as you would hear about the node town being updated etc from 'words down the vine' but you knowledge of this is very limited. As I don't know how big each node area is this could be expanded to you know an average amount about an adjacent node and very little about ones connected to that node.
- When a node reaches max level, or there is a very high tier world event, this is big news and you will hear about it no matter where it is. This does not reveal the area on the map if you haven't explored it, you will just know where to go to on the map if you want to explore that changed area or visit the event.
- The Scribe profession (or I would prefer a new profession called Cartography) would allow a player to craft the map they know and sell this information to others. This could seem as a bit of a cheat to some as if you have the money then you don't have to bother exploring. But I see it as a way to reward explorers. Don't forget that this will be a constantly changing world and this information will soon go out of date and would constantly need to be updated which is why I would prefer a new profession for it.
Basically, what I feel I am being asked is -- Do I want the $100 in my hand (the map) or what is behind door number 3. Not really fair to ask this question since I have no idea what ""more innovative ways"" may include. Also, an answer would greatly depend upon whether a type of cartography skill is in thoughts for game inclusion. Could at least offer a list of options/possibilities that one could choose from - like or dislike. So much is in the dark. Presently my first intuitive choice is to respond with --> its working - don't try to fix something not broken. Leave it as it is so game will be launch ready sooner!!!
Read through the thread, there are many innovative examples of how to tackle the situation.
I like the idea of having cartography, making maps out of different map materials like ink and paper(along with a high enough skill of course) yielding better resolution
Higher skill letting the cartographer make better notation such as unique markers, legends, ect.
Having the maps of different materials being sell-able and making it so that maps are updated by trading it to another player who can then update it to keep the process social. Having it so that maps are very expensive so just selling a map on the AH is not gonna be the way to go(although it is possible).
The idea of going to my local cartographer, or the local library everyday when I log in for the latest update where my friendly neighborhood scholars have been maintaining the map sounds like a good add to my daily routine in game.
Make a cartography profession.....Maps would need to be purchased/traded from players who have used tools and exploration to map regions/areas. Cartographers could create maps with different uses, i.e resource maps.
I don't have a good concept of the economy state of play. This could be a reasonable aspect for a meaningful money sink via a simple system where the first X people can sell point of interest updates to a cartography vendor for a small bit of cash and anyone can refresh their maps at the same vendor for a medium cost per point of interest. Maybe the vendors only service map updates for adjacent nodes.
Could potentially share maps within guilds via an upgrade perk to cut costs.
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OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Took a few weeks to think about it, but I think MMO's it is always a neat experience when I travel to new lands (or the previously discovered land) and find something that blows away my expectations. If I havent been on for a couple weeks, or miss a siege event, I think it would be super cool to go around exploring to see how the world of Verra has changed in my absence. If it is already filled out, for what purpose would I want to explore it?
Now, I have seen some people express interest in a cartography skill in order to make a map. I do not like this at all. I think this would add needless complexity to an already complex game. As I have grown older, I have seen the impact super hardcore games have on a community. That impact is to make the community smaller. The MORE hardcore a game REQUIRES you to be, the smaller the community will become. Now, that isn't to say I don't think people should be able to play an MMO in a hardcore way, I ABSOLUTELY think they should be able to. But do not force that on casual players, for they are what will be the silent majority.
Player driven map. (you need objectives locations to be dynamic for this to work)
Make the basic map and let the players put in the reste (painting tool) that way you only need to make a world where there is a need for players to be paying attention to their surroundings for stuff like caravan routes, mobs (level,type,route) , player aktiviti , dungeons , resource nodes. make sure that most of them change positions so that someone can't make a website with all the info. then let the player shere this map in guild or node and with friends
What i would like to see is that when i go somewhere it's not just the same as a week ago so that i don't just watch a movie while framing
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griffithMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I like these suggestions here a lot! A cartography skill would be super cool and great for community interaction. Some maps should be basic flat tan colour and good enough to see the general outline of the area it encompasses. while more advanced maps should have 3D visualizing to show elevation or weather effects and mobs etc. I think the higher grade maps should be reasonably barred from access by requiring enchantment of the map and/or a higher level cartography proficiency. higher level cartographers should also be able to explore newly developed areas and be able to cover more ground quicker than a noob. There should be much more utility to the cartography proficiency though so it isn't a skill that is only valuable once it is maxed out.
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eyalgoldxMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would like the world to be very dynamic, but it's super important to me that some places will remain static with signiture looks. For wxample: I want a huge tree city to always remain the huge tree city, even if seasons and node progression make it look slightly different. I want iconic statues of the city to look the same. I want iconic logos/flags to remain the same. I want "knowing the area" to mean something.
A more dynamic map could be a point to make Ashes of Creation (AOC) truly unique.
The biggest problem: it hs to be beginner friendly and still something the casual ad the pro-gamer can work with.
So my fist thought would be to make a fog of war on the map at the start of the journey but with certain points the charackter already knows, like the main city, of his/her hometown and surronding.
I am not sue how classes will exacly work in the end in AOC, but maybee some of them could alread influence what you see in what detail on the map. A mage sees an arcane point of interest, runes, a ruin of a old magic library, a hunter sees what animals live in that area and can see what items they drop and so on.
As the hero levels up, the information will be more, more complex and more detailed. So fist you on get: there is something "animal location", then what is there say "bear", then "bear, drops fur" and lastly "bear, drops fur, most active on day, not seen in winter"
Other infomration like a dungeon entry or the citys on the other hand is visible once a hero discovers them.
Plus the cartographer skill as mentiond by others could also support that. So the cartographer card is interesting for newcommers who want to know what is ahead. It is also useull for anyone coming back after month or a year or a big event that changed a contry like a war, a natural disaster, a big monster, bandits, etc.
Also you could buy maps that have information you can not see on your own map, but for example you can find interesting things in a mage tower that is shown on a map mae by a mage or a cartographer, without beeing a mage.
The cartographer skill can mark all points of interest on the map, when he is skilled. So a cartographer would have to learn how to make a map that shows the animals, the magic artifacts, the minerals, the herbs, Strategic points (maybee for thiefs), guradsmen (maybee for warriors), etc.
Most of this information is not changing, or only slowly changing, because of the seasons. So an older map will lead you to the next city, but it might be ruined by now, whereas the new map or if you already discored it, shows the ruins of the city.
Of course an interactive map like this is complex, as the things that change in the world would need to show, once a hero discovers them (if the are able to "see" them). The safest way to not mak anything wrong, but also noothing new would be the usual map where every plyer can vreate their own markers. So everyone would decide for hemselfs what is interesting and all the big things like city etc. will be there in the first place.
Sorry for any writing mistakes, english is not my mother tounge.
Comments
"The Verran planet is not flat. You may not see a curvature on the horizon in this, but from a lore perspective the universe in Verra does adhere to some basic physics and laws of physics that we experience in the real world, which means it is not flat" - Steven Sharif
Verra is in fact NOT flat, nor has Steven said it was. In-game, you will not see the planet's curvature and there will not be world-wrapping. With that said, in terms of lore, Verra is a planet and similarly to Earth, a globe ^_^ I hope this clears up any misunderstandings!
Example scenario:
A player gains map vision over a dormant area after discovery. After players trigger an event, the node changes to the effects of its geography and contents. In result, the map area would be obstructed by a specialized visual which signifies that a world shaping event has occurred and the land is no longer as you last experienced it.
To gain an updated map vision, you can:
AoC could also leverage its incredible draw distance is make things that are visible to a player on screen pop as icons on the player map. It might not make sense for the specifics to show on the mini-map but a simple '?' could be used as a visual indicator that the toon saw something the player can explore.
When it comes to map updates, I think that presence in the Node should be a requisite for keeping the map up to date. As a player, it would certainly push me to move between zones if that meant it provided the most up to date information, especially with regards to things like Node level, trading information, and other relevant information. That said, I think that a "rumor" type system might be an interesting inclusion that can help drive player movement. As an example, if you wander in from the wilderness into a Node, a pop-up appears that says something like "You overhear a merchant saying <<Node X>> elected a new mayor/became a Metropolis/is looking for caravan drivers" or "A drover is complaining that they couldn't buy any <<resource>> in <<Node Y>>". It could even be something that guilds or other organizations can take part in as part of an economic campaign or other interest.
Getting the honeymoon of early gameplay to continue in the endgame must be one of the big challenges of MMOs. In my experience nobody else has done this so far but dynamic map gameplay and evolving online world has all the potential for this.
The reason I say this is tied to the economy is because these maps of course become obsolete over time as the game world actively changes, and with not all players being interested in making their own maps, it adds extra value to the crafting system and cartography skill. Map quality could also be an important aspect to consider, as players could potentially buy "crude" or "low" quality maps from npc vendors to get a rough lay of the land in a given area, or perhaps specific maps are given to players by npc's as part of quest lines, where players use the crude form map to guide them to a specific location.
I did see players mentioning fake landmarks and the inclusion of other false information on maps, which would be a fantastic idea for large scale espionage, or even small group pirates who have hidden stashes in the game world and use maps with symbolic forms of encryption as reminders of where the caches wait.
Either way, it seems like a waste to just have the standard hit "m" and have the map pop up mechanic like every other massively multiplayer online role playing game has implemented into their user interface. Ashes of Creation is something totally different, and I believe it's map system is no different than any other system.
ps. Please add controller support. If Square Enix can do it well, so you can you guys. I believe in you!
I think AOC should have dynamic maps my only worry is scope creep. However, if it is done how I describe below I think it could only be added later if you start with a static map and add it once someone has fully explored the world to make it feel immersive.
Secondary skill – I think everybody should have a secondary skill, in my example I will call it “exploration”. Everybody should start out with max learnable skill of 100, cartographers can raise max to 300. Your exploration skill will determine how well you update your own map, this would be done automatically as you explore the world. If you are in combat or riding a mount at full speed through an area your exploration skill would take a 50% debuff while updating your map, due to you not being able to focus as much. This would lead to certain players wanting to explore more.
Quest for anyone (daily)-I think that every town should have a map board in the town that has a daily quest. By completing the quest you update the town map with what you have explored within, the lesser of, the last 24 hours or since the last time you have completed the quest. Time frame makes it were you would only miss one daily quest if you found something awesome and did not want to share with everybody. Quest reward should be based on your exploration skill, will determine how detailed it is, and how much you have explored. This will help to bring people to the towns for potential player interaction and make it fairly easy to update maps.
Quest from Library – I think that T6 scientific nodes should have quests for cartographer at library with reward based on quality and quantity, which would likely be more than player reward at town maps.
Players can also complete quest to update map if they have a certain exploration skill level, to ensure quality map, if they have high priority poi like new dungeon or highes tier gatherable.
Quest from towns – If an area is unexplored, which can happen for many reasons like high monster level, and all surrounding areas are explored then mayor has option of starting quest for cartographer to go explore that area for high rewards.
Town maps – Players can click on the town map to update their own map for free. However, it will only update map for town zoi excluding the zoi of the town it is a vassal of, i.e. higher level towns and appropriate level gatherables. Lets say for my example there are 6 tiers of gatherables. So a T3 town would show all T2 and lower gatherables on the map. Allowing a need to buy cartographer maps to get the best.
Guild maps – Should be located in town by guild bank or where you go to create guild, not sure of details on how guilds work in game. Allow all guild members to update. Would create a need to have cartographer in guild. Guild owner can set permission on who can update their map from guild map.
Maps inside dungeons –
All player maps should update depending on their skill level but only adds poi of where monsters are
Cartographers, if skill level high enough, can have their maps update with the number and type of enemies.
Fog of war –
Starting out I believe the map should only have outlines of obvious things. Outline of land mass, mountains, and any large bodies of water should be shown without details. Traditional fog of war should be applied to all areas at 0% transparency, large bodies of water and mountains should have 30% transparency. As you explore map opens up.
If you buy a map then area should update to have fog of war at 90% and land features transparency at 10%, barely obscure but lets you know you have not actually explored.
If area unexplored for a long time transparency of fog of war and land features should be at 50%, or amount where you can barely make out old land marks since you have previously explored it.
If re explore area should be able to rediscover at increased rate, as long as area has not changed.
Libraries, I am under assumption will only be in scientific node.
T6 Scientific nodes have the option for all citizens, or players with fee, to explore all maps older than 3 weeks to see how it has changed.
Allow cartographers to pay huge fee to get access to all info, as to were regular players are limited to 1 tier lower gatherables. This will allow cartographers maps to be important and highly sought after. Cartographers can blury map but not update their map unless they make a map, causing them to pay the fee, and then using the consumable map to update their own.
Mayor, town leaders access to town maps. I think that they should have an interactive window that reveals the tier of gatherables equal to their town level when their mouse hovers over the area but does not reveal the entire map at once. This allows them to have access to more information but make it difficult to share maps online.
Updating maps
All players maps automatically update with their exploration skill level and how much they explore of the actual map.
Cartographers, assuming higher level exploration skill, will have better maps just from exploring.
Players can update map from town map, will only be zoi of town minus zoi of town it is a vassal of.
If no T6 scientific node will create a need for cartographers to go to surrounding towns and update personal maps to then sell.
Making/selling maps.
This would be the difficult part for game makers.
Description would need to include name of maker, quality level dependent on skill, how new the data is, what zones are included in the update, plus more I am sure I can’t think of.
That being sad not only do I think it should not show what got changed only because you visited a far away area once, it should also not show directly what got changed in your surrounding area.
Let's say the map will be shown entirely white in areas you have not visited before. When you discover those areas the first time it is shown in full color but if a node developes or evolves it is going to have a grey mist in the area surrounding the node which roughly shows how it looked like when you first discovered the area. This alone would make me want to go out and discover what got changed. This scenario would make it really exciting even late in the game because you can always discover something new.
It could also be somewhat important for future castle sieges. It would be kinda boring to me to already see all the positions of the important buildings in a distant castle just because I was once there when it was a little village. Having to go there once it is a castle and to scout the important buildings yourself would make the strategic aspect in preperation of a castle siege way more exciting.
I can also see some events being indicated through the map. Let's say there is a sandstorm coming that indicates a world boss event that could be shown through a yellow-ish mist blocking the surrounding area of the event. Once you are inside the sandstorm you get a "disoriented" debuff which either disables the map and mini map or makes it just impossible to determine your exact position.
I think having a game that changes the map all the time through node development should also have a different way to display the map than all those old mmos.
I also like the modern way of a map that the game Black Desert online has in which it shows the current weather in certain areas like a rain cloud slowly moving from left to the right or just showing snow in certain areas.
member of Knights of the Phoenix
I'd rather have a scenario where people need to small talk to hear what the geo-political situation (what node leveld up, what node was destroyed, how trade is affected) is right now, maybe have City Newspapers and medieval-style public announcements, and stuff like that, rather than a boring, spoon-fed map/feed in regards to the most recent geo-political changes.
I REALLY REALLY like this idea. I think it could be cool to have a meta-exploration market of sorts where you can sell your maps to other players. What would be cool on top of this, would be if they were static. So if a node progressed/changed, the map WOULDN'T show that, and that makes part of your journey a mystery always. You'd always be thinking to yourself (I hope I don't end up in orc territory or that this node is still t3 for x service/resources).
- You only get information about nodes you have explored before (with exceptions of events and others mentioned below)
- The current node you are in is always up to date. This is because you can see what is going on and you would realistically hear from others about local events and changes.
- Each adjacent node to the one you are in is partially updated (providing you have explored it) as you would hear about the node town being updated etc from 'words down the vine' but you knowledge of this is very limited. As I don't know how big each node area is this could be expanded to you know an average amount about an adjacent node and very little about ones connected to that node.
- When a node reaches max level, or there is a very high tier world event, this is big news and you will hear about it no matter where it is. This does not reveal the area on the map if you haven't explored it, you will just know where to go to on the map if you want to explore that changed area or visit the event.
- The Scribe profession (or I would prefer a new profession called Cartography) would allow a player to craft the map they know and sell this information to others. This could seem as a bit of a cheat to some as if you have the money then you don't have to bother exploring. But I see it as a way to reward explorers. Don't forget that this will be a constantly changing world and this information will soon go out of date and would constantly need to be updated which is why I would prefer a new profession for it.
Read through the thread, there are many innovative examples of how to tackle the situation.
I like the idea of having cartography, making maps out of different map materials like ink and paper(along with a high enough skill of course) yielding better resolution
Higher skill letting the cartographer make better notation such as unique markers, legends, ect.
Having the maps of different materials being sell-able and making it so that maps are updated by trading it to another player who can then update it to keep the process social. Having it so that maps are very expensive so just selling a map on the AH is not gonna be the way to go(although it is possible).
Could potentially share maps within guilds via an upgrade perk to cut costs.
Now, I have seen some people express interest in a cartography skill in order to make a map. I do not like this at all. I think this would add needless complexity to an already complex game. As I have grown older, I have seen the impact super hardcore games have on a community. That impact is to make the community smaller. The MORE hardcore a game REQUIRES you to be, the smaller the community will become. Now, that isn't to say I don't think people should be able to play an MMO in a hardcore way, I ABSOLUTELY think they should be able to. But do not force that on casual players, for they are what will be the silent majority.
There are many great suggestions here, I'll just cast my vote for a more dynamic system.
basic map. information like nodes,castles positions (you can get more info they get scouted)
Static map
Look to https://www.newworld-map.com/aeternum?filters=cities (+ paint = done )
and der is going to be marks for the dynamic stuff like mops framing routes……
Player driven map. (you need objectives locations to be dynamic for this to work)
Make the basic map and let the players put in the reste (painting tool) that way you only need to make a world where there is a need for players to be paying attention to their surroundings for stuff like caravan routes, mobs (level,type,route) , player aktiviti , dungeons , resource nodes. make sure that most of them change positions so that someone can't make a website with all the info. then let the player shere this map in guild or node and with friends
What i would like to see is that when i go somewhere it's not just the same as a week ago so that i don't just watch a movie while framing
The biggest problem: it hs to be beginner friendly and still something the casual ad the pro-gamer can work with.
So my fist thought would be to make a fog of war on the map at the start of the journey but with certain points the charackter already knows, like the main city, of his/her hometown and surronding.
I am not sue how classes will exacly work in the end in AOC, but maybee some of them could alread influence what you see in what detail on the map. A mage sees an arcane point of interest, runes, a ruin of a old magic library, a hunter sees what animals live in that area and can see what items they drop and so on.
As the hero levels up, the information will be more, more complex and more detailed. So fist you on get: there is something "animal location", then what is there say "bear", then "bear, drops fur" and lastly "bear, drops fur, most active on day, not seen in winter"
Other infomration like a dungeon entry or the citys on the other hand is visible once a hero discovers them.
Plus the cartographer skill as mentiond by others could also support that. So the cartographer card is interesting for newcommers who want to know what is ahead. It is also useull for anyone coming back after month or a year or a big event that changed a contry like a war, a natural disaster, a big monster, bandits, etc.
Also you could buy maps that have information you can not see on your own map, but for example you can find interesting things in a mage tower that is shown on a map mae by a mage or a cartographer, without beeing a mage.
The cartographer skill can mark all points of interest on the map, when he is skilled. So a cartographer would have to learn how to make a map that shows the animals, the magic artifacts, the minerals, the herbs, Strategic points (maybee for thiefs), guradsmen (maybee for warriors), etc.
Most of this information is not changing, or only slowly changing, because of the seasons. So an older map will lead you to the next city, but it might be ruined by now, whereas the new map or if you already discored it, shows the ruins of the city.
Of course an interactive map like this is complex, as the things that change in the world would need to show, once a hero discovers them (if the are able to "see" them). The safest way to not mak anything wrong, but also noothing new would be the usual map where every plyer can vreate their own markers. So everyone would decide for hemselfs what is interesting and all the big things like city etc. will be there in the first place.
Sorry for any writing mistakes, english is not my mother tounge.