Why would you bother spending all that time developing and updating a 3rd party map, unique for EVERY Server, if an equivalent or better system already exists in game? In this sort of thinking, you're also assuming people will be willing to give out this information freely about their homes in a PvP focused game to potential enemies, revealing locations of resources, key node buildings, fortifications, freehold locations, ETC. There will be some I'm sure, but I think most people are not that naive.
I wouldn't bother developing it, but I can ask someone to do it really easily, and someone will for sure, for everyone else, you just spend 5 seconds opening the website and there you go - no need to hire or pay gold to a cartographer, do any exploration, or have any limitation with an ingame system.
Why would you think people would be willing to spend time leveling a profession or paying someone (outside of RP) for something they can open a browser and have with no cost?
Also, in regards to you thinking people wouldn't be willing to share information... it's the snitches MO2, the game I used as the example, is way more PVP focused than AOC as it is a hardcore sandbox pvp game - people share all that info because it's a way to mess with rival guilds.... world boss spawns, node resource spawns - smaller guilds or people that can't compete will immediately snitch on that map, same thing would happen in Ashes.
That's why I think intrepid shouldn't spend time developing professions or systems around information Only - since you can not hide information or gatekeep it with in-game systems from today's player base, I'd say get those engineers/designers/artists that would be working on cartography, working on something else that wouldn't be ruined by 3rd party websites - more bosses, dungeons, combat, the other professions, etc.
As a geographer myself i would love to see cartography play a bigger part in the game than an automatically updated map.
Since the environment, spawnlocations of monsters, points of interests, ressource nodes etc. will undergo changes throughout the seasons and through the evolution of nodes on a regular basis, there is a huge potential to make the information displayed on maps matter more. There could be a system, where you turn in your gathered map information to an npc and getting rewards based on how near or far away the npc from the specific information is. Also, this npc offers citizens of the same node the npc is the possibility to update their map with all information that have been turned in at this npc. This way, sharing your map information with npc's at nodes further away will potentially give you a better reward. The downside is, if you turn in the information at other nodes than your homenode, you will give their citizens information, giving their gathering professions crutial information of good hauling spots potentially hurting your homenodes economy.
The sharing of map information between nodes could be a diplomatic contract between allied nodes or beeing prohibited completely to certain nodes while at war or through the mayor system by decree.
There could be a progression system for explorers through different variations of scouting gear. Spectacles, binoculars and ultimately stationary telescopes at your freehold for faster or easier gathering of information.
The Observatory could be a building unlocked for nodes that, if you know how to use it, reveals large areas of the map at once, or for the more sinister use, search for caravans and check out their defenses before attacking them.
During Sieges, scouting/exploration equipment or skill could be used to scout out enemy defenses, a potential weakspot or supply depots to give your strategists better ways to plan the attack or make them fail harder because of you holding the map upside down.
Maybe customizable maps could also be a thing. Decals and Ornaments or north pointer variations, scalebars, fonts etc. could be added or edited through a high skilled scribe.
I think that more innovative, interactive ways of updating the map would be interesting. An in-game cartography system to share map info within a node/guild/tavern would be really cool.
In the worst case, if it's too inconvenient, then the community would just use third-party tools or Discord channels to crowd-source the map info. Which is not a bad thing IMO. It gives people the choice: If they want more convenience they can use outside tools; or if they want more immersion they can stick with in-game systems.
Pretty late to the discussion, but here's my 2 cents:
Keep it simple. As others have pointed out, if it's not simple, there will be 3rd party resources to make it simple. My approach would be:
1. Fog of war. As you explore, you discover more of the map. Once an area is discovered, it's discovered forever.
2. If big things change on the map, such as node size, node type, etc. that could be updated.
3. Don't put tons of specifics on it. Map shouldn't tell you what mob types are where, or anything of the sort. It should be a simple guide that someone can say "let's meet up at x/y location" and the map should be able to guide you there.
4. Allow people to add markers to their map. This will make it all the more worth using, and will make people more likely to use the ingame map over 3rd party options.
I don't like the idea of if something changes, people have to go back, revisit the location, to re-identify the place. There's a certain feeling of "completion" to exploring and unlocking a map, and nobody wants to keep going back to do it again.
I enjoy the idea of buying maps off players that make them from a profession and maps being able to be out of date/not accurate bc of seasons or node events
I already saw very good answers to this question. So I am just gonna give you guys my take on this.
I think the traditional system is a good way to do it. Maybe it's not the most innovative thing, but everybody knows it and is fine with it, but the map itself should have important features like marking areas with symbols or even comments so you can navigate better through the world and mark locations how you want!
I like the sound of having the map explored after you've explored it once. Having it update relative to the world.
What I do like from a lot of the other comments is the importance of map makers, and what possibilities they could have.
Would be cool if maps are either consuming or equipable (Hotbar equipped) they would then highlight things nearby in a radius depending on what type of map this is. The map itself should be something that needs to be renewed due to the economy.
I wouldn't bother developing it, but I can ask someone to do it really easily, and someone will for sure, for everyone else, you just spend 5 seconds opening the website and there you go - no need to hire or pay gold to a cartographer, do any exploration, or have any limitation with an ingame system.
Why would you think people would be willing to spend time leveling a profession or paying someone (outside of RP) for something they can open a browser and have with no cost?
Also, in regards to you thinking people wouldn't be willing to share information... it's the snitches MO2, the game I used as the example, is way more PVP focused than AOC as it is a hardcore sandbox pvp game - people share all that info because it's a way to mess with rival guilds.... world boss spawns, node resource spawns - smaller guilds or people that can't compete will immediately snitch on that map, same thing would happen in Ashes.
That's why I think intrepid shouldn't spend time developing professions or systems around information Only - since you can not hide information or gatekeep it with in-game systems from today's player base, I'd say get those engineers/designers/artists that would be working on cartography, working on something else that wouldn't be ruined by 3rd party websites - more bosses, dungeons, combat, the other professions, etc.
Because a majority of people are saying it right before your eyes. All you have to do is read. Look at how many people are willing to do it in this discussion thread alone.
It's far more convenient to press a key and bring the map up than it is to minimize the application and search for an external map or put it on a second screen. Being able to place markers and see group members is yet another reason it's better. You also have to realize the benefit of seeing the entire map in Ashes will not be as important as it is in other MMOs due to fast travel limitations and the many ways the world will be constantly changing.
I never said people wouldn't share, I acknowledged the fact that some people would in my last post.
Again, I am not in favor of a crafting profession for maps. I guess you missed the entire second half of my last post where I talked about it in detail. I simply mentioned the plans for the Scribe and said it would fit within their role since so many people seem to like the idea.
I would like to see a simple map that I can mark locations myself as well as party members. I would like the map not to update unless I recently explored the area. So if a town turned into a city or a city fell and no longer existed I would t know unless I go back to that location or purchased a new map of that zone from a map maker.
I LOVE the idea of maps as dynamic content. Perhaps similar to Diablo 2 with a "discovery" of each area/zone per week/day/season. Each [time interval] (e.g. season, 1 week} the world changes significantly we could rediscover the map and chart new points of interest, areas that have opened/closed, etc.
I really enjoy the feeling of discovery that comes with "unlocking" a map per area/zone/bio. These maps can be updated as the zone changes, and I could see this working well with the seasonal change timeline. Long enough to feel good and unlock, short enough to keep things fresh. Perhaps seasons should be more like 2-3 weeks though.
Thanks!
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Should future expansions occur, I would much rather the maps do not extend the land mass but rather layer it.
By increasing areas below/within: ground, buildings, underwater, expanding caves, rivers. catacombs, hidden entrances - far more preferred than expanding land and increasing travel time.
Always for keeping players active in near proximity to nodes, then paths to diverge, rather than just sheer distance
I guess these kind of areas have not really been discussed other than perhaps sometimes markers on the overall map and sometimes not.
I think the details on the world map should be separated into regions that show that show updated information while within that region only; (example if it was separated into quadrants it should only show the upper right quadrants map details such as town locations while you are in the upper right quadrant). I think it would also be a cool idea if players could craft annotated maps to sell/share with other players to mark thing such as know freehold/tavern locations, mob farming areas, known resources, and dungeon/other points of interest, etc..
A more innovative way of updating the map would be better than the old traditional way. Though the traditional way works, it would be great to see something new that can innovate this aspect of the genre. Since Ashes is heavy on exploratory, it would be great if exploration impacts the economy of the world. For example, there could be a specific skill tree for exploration that players can choose to master. There would be blank maps that can be purchased from NPCs in starting areas that require players to fill out by exploring. Their filling out of these maps will increase their exploration tree allowing them to unlock skills that help them explore the map with ease. These maps can be sold to other players who haven't done any exploration on a zone. We can imagine it this way: player A bought a blank map and filled it up with information (mobs location, gatherable materials location...etc) on the Riverland zone. Player B who only has the desert zone map can purchase the map on the Riverland zone. Players B can then fuse these two maps allowing them to have a better view and understanding of the world. In addition, a master explorer will be able to collect unique information that a novice cannot. They could see whether the gatherable are depleted on the land and the health of the land to be able to produce those materials. Also, the explorer tree, once mastered, should prevent players to master other artesian skill trees.
Would be cool if cartographers can craft maps with topography and makes the map 3d or isometric, having a more detailed map might lead to being able to scout for more hidden areas, treasures etc?...
Hot damn how did I miss this post! I think I have seen a lot of good participation but I will kind of summarise how I envisage it working in Ashes:
- Fog of War of course.
- A method of acquiring an update on your map other than physically exploring there. The example of the library is good. How about a news stand which gives information of just the node that you are in? Or the ZoI? Maybe this can depend on the level of this "building".
Imparting some of this on players would be interesting with the "Cartography" skill we could have. I want it to be a bit like WoW's Archaeology - in that it's kind of a slow burner, since you can only really "level it up" by just exploring. But maybe Cartographers by increasing their ability have access to a larger area they can document in terms of range. Where the most adept Cartographers don't have to cover as much ground.
I also wonder how it's best that the information is shared. If it ends up in a locally accessible building like a library or news stand, then it's perhaps not as profitable. So if you want it to be marketable in some sense with value, then I think you would have to rely on it being solely in the hands of the players.
- In terms of how to "update" the map - I actually would want to minimise the circumstances this is done, depending on the scale of the event. If there is a major event like a world boss spawning ravaging the land, a Volcano erupting - this should show in the map AT LEAST for everyone in the ZoI - I think it also in terms of game mechanics will serve to get players where they need to be. However I think smaller than this, I don't want any update at all as the information ought to be made available by discovery or "word of mouth"/acquisition of information (i.e. the library).
Keeping the map feeling alive will help to make the world feel alive. I can picture the map basically showing what you last know of an area at all times, until there is a trigger to update it. So maybe I last visited a mine, it's been a week and to me, it's still a mine. Maybe I go there and the mine isn't there at all, then it updates. Or I would have to get information of the area in order to be sure it's still there. That seems cool to me and again just makes the world really feel alive.
Obviously some things will persist for longer and some things will be changing a lot, so hopefully the need to update the map on purely a local basis won't be super high - but often enough to keep the world feeling alive.
I think that to compliment the feelings of exploration in Ashes of Creation, I would personally like to see the map start out blank and only update the parts you visit. If you've already visited an area, the information will stay the same until you revisit that same area, in which the marker for that POI will either update or remain the same until something significant happens to it during visit.
I think this will cause interesting scenarios where two players are exploring together, but both of them have different parts of their map updated to each other.
One player might have a dungeon marked down, and they'll say: "There's a cool food market over in this direction, let's go there."
And the other player pulls them up on it saying: "Hold on, I was there just the other day. It's nothing but a bandit camp now."
And this information while updating automatically via visiting the area, can also be editted so that in this example, the other player can correct their current version of the map and think tactically about their travel routes.
I also agree with others on making cartography a job. The maps will still need to be manually updated, but buying from a cartographer not only provides you with more information, but lets you see how long ago that map was created. There will be players who try to meta this I'm sure. But I'd hope that with at least smaller details in the world changing all the time, that it wouldn't be too viable, but that's just my assumption.
I know none of that is very conventional, but I certainly think it's more important for Ashes of Creation to find it's audience. If people wanted to play a game that was just as easy to navigate as every other game out there, I feel like they don't have Ashes' strengths in their interests as a game.
Discovery and just feeling like the world is constantly moving is a game I want to play.
I do think that there should be a compass-like item or something which allows you to see the direction your registered friends are in, but that's perhaps a discussion for another time.
(I'm relatively new to discovering this game so apologies if there's anything in here that's already been covered)
I like the idea of doing it RTS or 4X style where the map shows the areas as they were the last time you were in that area. A profession, such as scribes, perhaps using Libraries or some other a scientific node building could create a one time use consumable map that simply copies their most recent map, which the player can then trade or sell to another player.
When player's use this consumable, the parts of the map that are newer than their personal map get updated.
This would be a way to encourage exploration. I don't like the idea of being able to make a map that is 100% updated without having to actually explore.
This would create another Gold Sink as well, which MMOs always seem to need a fair amount of to combat inflation.
This would be also great for PVP strategizing as well, as players would need to explore the nodes they are planning to siege, or buy a map that has that area recently explored.
And, getting people exploring these areas could foster more open world PVP as "enemies" scouting your area could get people to respond.
I would love to see Cartography in game as a profession. Give players the option to sell maps to players who may not want to explore every area or may want to fill out the world map on an alt without having to reexplore every corner of the map.
I'm not sure having to reacquire maps to update the changes in an area would be a good idea as the world of Verra will change too quickly. Yes for crafting maps but once the area is explored through walking around or purchasing maps the area should update automatically on it's own in the world map viewer imo but the idea of having to reacquire newer maps from players is intriguing and probably good for the economy of the game.
Would you like to see a traditional MMO world map that, once explored, updates with the ever-changing state of the world, or would you prefer to see more innovative ways of keeping maps up-to-date?
I'd prefer the "more innovative ways of keeping maps up-to-date"
I do like the idea of being able to trade or sell more-or-less up to date maps (+ seasonal maps).
What I thin would be really awesome would be :
A "global" automatic map update :
- the more people are exploring an area, the better is this "automatic update. It makes sense that informations about towns and cities are well-known by many, whereas small villages or wild areas are not.
- in the same way, the more people are exploring an area, the further this "automatic update" is spread. Even if I know there is a huge city on the other side of the continent, it's so far away that I might have more map info about the next door little village than about this city.
- Something really cool would be to have the global map being physically stored in towns. Like a 3D map at the mayor office or library or something like that
It would make sense that in order to have the updated "global automatic map" we should go to a town, and not having the map updating itself while we're idling in the middle of nowhere.
A personal "tradable" map :
- A map that can be traded with other players. According to the skills of the map maker, it would display more or less info such as minerals, types of trees / plants, monsters, etc...
- Having a seasonal parameter on these map could be cool too.
"We have two lives, and the second one begins when we set foot on Verra."
I would like to be able to make notes manually myself (pin it and type a note - nothing fancy,)
once explored it shows details I observed,
I would like the map not update post node development/changes until I explore it myself,
I would like to be able to buy maps from cartographers and based on the quality of the map purchased the more detail is filled in for me without traveling.
I would like maps cartographers (scribes) to be able to only cover X of the world map per map as well as level of detail or types of details.
NO, I would not like to see a world map that, once explored, updates with the ever-changing state of the world.
I would prefer to see a fog of war cloud with a timer. If time expires before you go back to an area (or buy a current map update (player/npc)), then the fog of war map recovers those areas (you've forgotten about them, but quickly fixed with new map/maps). INNOVATE. Go big or go home. (Keep up the great work). !.!
Love the idea of the map evolving like the weather system. Places change as war, events, and other player-based decision dictates. I'm just excited to see what y'all produce. Keep up the great work!
I'd love to see map changes with big expansions or if you guys want to put in the effort for this but defeating some World Bosses or losing to some big Event boss could change the corruption around it, and maybe even alter the terrain? I mention these ideas as it plays into World Discovery. If this type of route is what you end up taking I would love to see this reflected in a new "Corrupted Haze" on the map. Maybe places that you have never been to are just a nice grayed-out fog. But those that end up getting changed for better or for worse corruption wise it'd be cool to see a sort of color change of the fog on the map to reflect that.
The map should always show the lay out of the world and the node level because if you could not people would just go out of game for it. If the map does not show all the information that it does as in the node you are in then intrepid would have to find away that sources out of the game would not be helpful.
I see a lot of people commenting adding a fog of war when a big change happens to the map. I believe this should be something that should definitely be added. I think this will incite more curiosity in the player to check it out as it's an indication of change. Such as an event (some sort of boss spawn or node change). It will also have people interacting with each other more in server/world chat. Although the fog of war should not hide POIs. Maybe having a (?) on the end. An example would be a low-tier node (let's call it Beantown) that has been overrun by monsters and has been destroyed, the fog of war will surround Beantown and when hovering the POI on the map it will state Beantown(?). Then when discovered again become Bean Camp.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If there's going to be a fog of war pop up every time there's a change, there's really no point in having a map.
I think combining the old map discovery with something innovative could be really cool. Imagine finding a node at any stage, for example you find an encampment, on your map it shows an encampment while unknowingly to the player it has become a metropolis and that players map doesn't update that node as a metropolis until they visit that area again. In the same exact scenario with a complete opposite effect, Imagine finding a metropolis only to revisit the area with nothing but ruins of what once stood there. At launch I think there should be that "fog of war" to encourage discovery, but once an area has been discovered any map changes should not be shown until the player revisits the area ( unless the use of a secondary option is available and ill go over that down below. ). nor do I think a fog of war need be reapplied to an area if something does change. If I discover something and see fog in a place I know I've been I'll know something has changed and while sure that can encourage me to go back sooner, I think the impact of the rediscovery will be a fraction of what it could be compared to my map not showing any sign of changes until I decide to head that way myself.
regarding the secondary map update option I am seeing talks about a system to buy maps from npc's or other players, I think this would be a good secondary option for people who know of the change by word of mouth. maybe someone talks about the change in the guild chat. players who do not wish to venture back to that node or feel the map should just automatically update after a change have that option to update their map at the cost of a few coins. not forcing players to venture back and giving them the option is key in my opinion and i believe this is a solid option for those players.
I do not think these purchasable updated maps should be player made or give the player the ability to make maps with fake landmarks. Keep these maps standard and sold in the general store or something of that nature. however I don't see an issue with players buying them and trying to resell them for profit.
Comments
I wouldn't bother developing it, but I can ask someone to do it really easily, and someone will for sure, for everyone else, you just spend 5 seconds opening the website and there you go - no need to hire or pay gold to a cartographer, do any exploration, or have any limitation with an ingame system.
Why would you think people would be willing to spend time leveling a profession or paying someone (outside of RP) for something they can open a browser and have with no cost?
Also, in regards to you thinking people wouldn't be willing to share information... it's the snitches
That's why I think intrepid shouldn't spend time developing professions or systems around information Only - since you can not hide information or gatekeep it with in-game systems from today's player base, I'd say get those engineers/designers/artists that would be working on cartography, working on something else that wouldn't be ruined by 3rd party websites - more bosses, dungeons, combat, the other professions, etc.
Since the environment, spawnlocations of monsters, points of interests, ressource nodes etc. will undergo changes throughout the seasons and through the evolution of nodes on a regular basis, there is a huge potential to make the information displayed on maps matter more. There could be a system, where you turn in your gathered map information to an npc and getting rewards based on how near or far away the npc from the specific information is. Also, this npc offers citizens of the same node the npc is the possibility to update their map with all information that have been turned in at this npc. This way, sharing your map information with npc's at nodes further away will potentially give you a better reward. The downside is, if you turn in the information at other nodes than your homenode, you will give their citizens information, giving their gathering professions crutial information of good hauling spots potentially hurting your homenodes economy.
The sharing of map information between nodes could be a diplomatic contract between allied nodes or beeing prohibited completely to certain nodes while at war or through the mayor system by decree.
There could be a progression system for explorers through different variations of scouting gear. Spectacles, binoculars and ultimately stationary telescopes at your freehold for faster or easier gathering of information.
The Observatory could be a building unlocked for nodes that, if you know how to use it, reveals large areas of the map at once, or for the more sinister use, search for caravans and check out their defenses before attacking them.
During Sieges, scouting/exploration equipment or skill could be used to scout out enemy defenses, a potential weakspot or supply depots to give your strategists better ways to plan the attack or make them fail harder because of you holding the map upside down.
Maybe customizable maps could also be a thing. Decals and Ornaments or north pointer variations, scalebars, fonts etc. could be added or edited through a high skilled scribe.
In the worst case, if it's too inconvenient, then the community would just use third-party tools or Discord channels to crowd-source the map info. Which is not a bad thing IMO. It gives people the choice: If they want more convenience they can use outside tools; or if they want more immersion they can stick with in-game systems.
Keep it simple. As others have pointed out, if it's not simple, there will be 3rd party resources to make it simple. My approach would be:
1. Fog of war. As you explore, you discover more of the map. Once an area is discovered, it's discovered forever.
2. If big things change on the map, such as node size, node type, etc. that could be updated.
3. Don't put tons of specifics on it. Map shouldn't tell you what mob types are where, or anything of the sort. It should be a simple guide that someone can say "let's meet up at x/y location" and the map should be able to guide you there.
4. Allow people to add markers to their map. This will make it all the more worth using, and will make people more likely to use the ingame map over 3rd party options.
I don't like the idea of if something changes, people have to go back, revisit the location, to re-identify the place. There's a certain feeling of "completion" to exploring and unlocking a map, and nobody wants to keep going back to do it again.
I think the traditional system is a good way to do it. Maybe it's not the most innovative thing, but everybody knows it and is fine with it, but the map itself should have important features like marking areas with symbols or even comments so you can navigate better through the world and mark locations how you want!
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What I do like from a lot of the other comments is the importance of map makers, and what possibilities they could have.
Would be cool if maps are either consuming or equipable (Hotbar equipped) they would then highlight things nearby in a radius depending on what type of map this is. The map itself should be something that needs to be renewed due to the economy.
Because a majority of people are saying it right before your eyes. All you have to do is read. Look at how many people are willing to do it in this discussion thread alone.
It's far more convenient to press a key and bring the map up than it is to minimize the application and search for an external map or put it on a second screen. Being able to place markers and see group members is yet another reason it's better. You also have to realize the benefit of seeing the entire map in Ashes will not be as important as it is in other MMOs due to fast travel limitations and the many ways the world will be constantly changing.
I never said people wouldn't share, I acknowledged the fact that some people would in my last post.
Again, I am not in favor of a crafting profession for maps. I guess you missed the entire second half of my last post where I talked about it in detail. I simply mentioned the plans for the Scribe and said it would fit within their role since so many people seem to like the idea.
I really enjoy the feeling of discovery that comes with "unlocking" a map per area/zone/bio. These maps can be updated as the zone changes, and I could see this working well with the seasonal change timeline. Long enough to feel good and unlock, short enough to keep things fresh. Perhaps seasons should be more like 2-3 weeks though.
Thanks!
By increasing areas below/within: ground, buildings, underwater, expanding caves, rivers. catacombs, hidden entrances - far more preferred than expanding land and increasing travel time.
Always for keeping players active in near proximity to nodes, then paths to diverge, rather than just sheer distance
I guess these kind of areas have not really been discussed other than perhaps sometimes markers on the overall map and sometimes not.
- Fog of War of course.
- A method of acquiring an update on your map other than physically exploring there. The example of the library is good. How about a news stand which gives information of just the node that you are in? Or the ZoI? Maybe this can depend on the level of this "building".
Imparting some of this on players would be interesting with the "Cartography" skill we could have. I want it to be a bit like WoW's Archaeology - in that it's kind of a slow burner, since you can only really "level it up" by just exploring. But maybe Cartographers by increasing their ability have access to a larger area they can document in terms of range. Where the most adept Cartographers don't have to cover as much ground.
I also wonder how it's best that the information is shared. If it ends up in a locally accessible building like a library or news stand, then it's perhaps not as profitable. So if you want it to be marketable in some sense with value, then I think you would have to rely on it being solely in the hands of the players.
- In terms of how to "update" the map - I actually would want to minimise the circumstances this is done, depending on the scale of the event. If there is a major event like a world boss spawning ravaging the land, a Volcano erupting - this should show in the map AT LEAST for everyone in the ZoI - I think it also in terms of game mechanics will serve to get players where they need to be. However I think smaller than this, I don't want any update at all as the information ought to be made available by discovery or "word of mouth"/acquisition of information (i.e. the library).
Keeping the map feeling alive will help to make the world feel alive. I can picture the map basically showing what you last know of an area at all times, until there is a trigger to update it. So maybe I last visited a mine, it's been a week and to me, it's still a mine. Maybe I go there and the mine isn't there at all, then it updates. Or I would have to get information of the area in order to be sure it's still there. That seems cool to me and again just makes the world really feel alive.
Obviously some things will persist for longer and some things will be changing a lot, so hopefully the need to update the map on purely a local basis won't be super high - but often enough to keep the world feeling alive.
I think this will cause interesting scenarios where two players are exploring together, but both of them have different parts of their map updated to each other.
One player might have a dungeon marked down, and they'll say: "There's a cool food market over in this direction, let's go there."
And the other player pulls them up on it saying: "Hold on, I was there just the other day. It's nothing but a bandit camp now."
And this information while updating automatically via visiting the area, can also be editted so that in this example, the other player can correct their current version of the map and think tactically about their travel routes.
I also agree with others on making cartography a job. The maps will still need to be manually updated, but buying from a cartographer not only provides you with more information, but lets you see how long ago that map was created. There will be players who try to meta this I'm sure. But I'd hope that with at least smaller details in the world changing all the time, that it wouldn't be too viable, but that's just my assumption.
I know none of that is very conventional, but I certainly think it's more important for Ashes of Creation to find it's audience. If people wanted to play a game that was just as easy to navigate as every other game out there, I feel like they don't have Ashes' strengths in their interests as a game.
Discovery and just feeling like the world is constantly moving is a game I want to play.
I do think that there should be a compass-like item or something which allows you to see the direction your registered friends are in, but that's perhaps a discussion for another time.
(I'm relatively new to discovering this game so apologies if there's anything in here that's already been covered)
When player's use this consumable, the parts of the map that are newer than their personal map get updated.
This would be a way to encourage exploration. I don't like the idea of being able to make a map that is 100% updated without having to actually explore.
This would create another Gold Sink as well, which MMOs always seem to need a fair amount of to combat inflation.
This would be also great for PVP strategizing as well, as players would need to explore the nodes they are planning to siege, or buy a map that has that area recently explored.
And, getting people exploring these areas could foster more open world PVP as "enemies" scouting your area could get people to respond.
Genesis Guild Discord
I'm not sure having to reacquire maps to update the changes in an area would be a good idea as the world of Verra will change too quickly. Yes for crafting maps but once the area is explored through walking around or purchasing maps the area should update automatically on it's own in the world map viewer imo but the idea of having to reacquire newer maps from players is intriguing and probably good for the economy of the game.
I'd prefer the "more innovative ways of keeping maps up-to-date"
I do like the idea of being able to trade or sell more-or-less up to date maps (+ seasonal maps).
What I thin would be really awesome would be :
A "global" automatic map update :
- the more people are exploring an area, the better is this "automatic update. It makes sense that informations about towns and cities are well-known by many, whereas small villages or wild areas are not.
- in the same way, the more people are exploring an area, the further this "automatic update" is spread. Even if I know there is a huge city on the other side of the continent, it's so far away that I might have more map info about the next door little village than about this city.
- Something really cool would be to have the global map being physically stored in towns. Like a 3D map at the mayor office or library or something like that
It would make sense that in order to have the updated "global automatic map" we should go to a town, and not having the map updating itself while we're idling in the middle of nowhere.
A personal "tradable" map :
- A map that can be traded with other players. According to the skills of the map maker, it would display more or less info such as minerals, types of trees / plants, monsters, etc...
- Having a seasonal parameter on these map could be cool too.
I would prefer to see a fog of war cloud with a timer. If time expires before you go back to an area (or buy a current map update (player/npc)), then the fog of war map recovers those areas (you've forgotten about them, but quickly fixed with new map/maps). INNOVATE. Go big or go home. (Keep up the great work). !.!
regarding the secondary map update option I am seeing talks about a system to buy maps from npc's or other players, I think this would be a good secondary option for people who know of the change by word of mouth. maybe someone talks about the change in the guild chat. players who do not wish to venture back to that node or feel the map should just automatically update after a change have that option to update their map at the cost of a few coins. not forcing players to venture back and giving them the option is key in my opinion and i believe this is a solid option for those players.
I do not think these purchasable updated maps should be player made or give the player the ability to make maps with fake landmarks. Keep these maps standard and sold in the general store or something of that nature. however I don't see an issue with players buying them and trying to resell them for profit.