Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Sorry, but did you not read my post about making singular mobs on the easy side? Just because you can do AoE to mobs doesn't necessarily make mass pulling and AoE'ing any less engaging, it just favors certain classes and builds more than others.
The thing is though that say in WoW, that's the meta way to level and do dungeons, if you aren't playing a cleave you're a lot less useful. This is different though, you can't just pull multiple mobs all the time because now you have something else to worry about, other players.
This doesn't mean you can't make some mobs more difficult, it should probably just be the main type of encounters in the game. It appears that weapons can aoe hit and from what I can tell it looks like every class is going to have access to some kind of AoE. If they did something like this they could do it very well and make it very engaging. Not a spam AoE, but maybe an aoe with a cooldown like multishot for WoW hunters. A combination of trapping for CC, multishotting, single target attacking.
Making the more mobs you gather more difficult. None of that pull 20 things, ice nova them and blizzard them down until they make it to you, rinse and repeat stuff.
I mean you had other players to sort of worry about in WoW with the other faction, but you didn't in dungeons. The way AoC is set up would work perfectly with this system.
And like Nikr said, bosses are already going to scale depending on your previous fights apparently so for single mob bosses they can keep doing exactly that. If you AoE pulled all throughout the dungeon then they are going to be more difficult. If you had some jackasses following you the whole time waiting for their moment to strike, and you decided to play it safe, then the boss is going to be easier as well to give you some advantage for when/if they do decide to gank you mid fight.
Remember Lineage 2 Dark Elf Fighters Skill Confusion?
That made a targetered monster(or player) lose its threat and original target and forcing them to randomly pick another one(player or even another monster) within a certain range?
I kinda want bards to have a skill like that but AoE, i believe making it specifically target something/someone you want would be insanely strong and would hella boost the skill griefing potential instead of working as a chaos creator that can flip the table and make a boss or groups of monsters to possibly attack another group(s) wanting to take over your grinding spot or raid boss while your party is with its hands full dealing with it, reseting your party threat points and giving it the chance of changing focus to deal with the enemies amidst the chaos created.
And yes such skill would require a hella long cooldown to justify its power and potential, it would even allow counterplay by having the enemy bard give its try at playing their own AoE confusion if they get the inital unlucky result of having most of the monsters/boss thrown at their party..
Aren't we all sinners?
That said, if this were how the game was designed, the basic meta would be that you only pull as many as you can manage if you get attacked half way through.
The one thing even less engaging than killing many small easy mobs is killing fewer small easy mobs in case you get attacked.
Yes, you are right and it wasn`t fair and it was not enjoyed but that is exactly the drama that made L2 players have objectives - sly play/stealth play / secrets/revenge pking/amnesties/alliances, or just politics in general.
It was the players that created the substance to the mmo. far more than mod difficulty could ever.
To me, an activity that isn't enjoyed yet causes further gameplay should be deterred, but not prevented. I mean, that is why we have corruption in the game in the first place.
Alpha testing is only really any good at seeing how things work on a technical level.
You can not test social aspects of a game in an testing situation.
Actually, humans are involved in the testing. Alot of them are not professional testers, and are in fact just players hoping to have some time in game sooner. And a prolonged alpha 2, can test social settings as well, by simply having some testing servers receive no instruction, and just seeing how things develop.
Everyone going in to alpha testing knows that the server will be wiped eventually.
Second, people put less time in to testing a game than they do in to playing a game - generally speaking.
Lastly, testing environments don't generally have peoples full social circle in them.
These all combine to not being able to properly test out how things will work on a social level.
Ie. A big guild will lock down some portion of PvE progression (like a non instanced dungeon) to prevent players from progressing to better gear or weapons.
This stops effective pvp competition from forming, makes PvE players pay your guild for access to the content, and makes it easier to lock down new content for your guild.
This only really works for big guilds able to lock down the content 24/7 though.
Instanced dungeons became a thing in MMOs for a reason. I do not like instanced dungeons one bit, but I think most people fail to recognize that they were created to solve a problem with the way mass amounts of players interact on these types of games.
Removing the instances from MMOs is a good thing, but it reintroduces the original problem of players being "toxic" ( for lack of a better word). I see that AoC is going for a PvE /PvP hybrid, and I hope they are successful, but at the end of the day, if good gear is locked behind PvE content, then that content becomes crucial to PvP and of necessity gets targeted by PvP players to control that resource.
You are 100% disengaging the pve, killing them and then doing the pve before they get back. You don't pvp them inside the mobs that just be dumb.
Disengaging may not be so simple. From what I remember from showcases and the A1, the enemies inside dungeons had an extremely long leash range.
It may be more feasible to reset a boss encounter to focus on PvP but that would require the other group to also leave the boss room instead of just taking over the fight.
And again, this is in the context of mobs being difficult and not just braindead weak ones.
If PvE has good gear drops, then it becomes a target of PvP of PvP players who want to lock down that content to slow down their competition.
You don't even have to beat a guild in a fight to cause enough chaos to prevent them from beating a dungeon.
Well we will have to look at encounter to encounter, if there is a way int here has to be a way out. If another party is starting to show up you should have some notice ahead of time that a guild is entering your area. Either way at that point you don't do the pve content your focus will have to be on beating the other players. For this kind of thing id expect respawn points to be far upon dying as well. Else you aren't doing pve you need to win the pvp first until one gives up.
People use spies and spotters for this type of thing, but maybe you know this from your name?
Im sure they function alot like dungeons from Everquest PvP servers tbh which i think worked fine appart from everquest pvp wasnt very balanced :P
As for notices, that would only work if you're a part of a guild that's at war with another guild and you're always on the lookout for them. But quite often you might just be a party of people who're farming a room and there's another random party that comes in and wants to fight you for that room.
If you're a group of 8 people and the mobs are properly difficult, you won't have anyone to be the lookout, standing somewhere else in the dungeon. Though even if you did stand somewhere else, there's no assurance that the party that's running through the dungeon is going directly for your room, so you disengaging a valuable mob preemptively might just fuck over your ability rotations (assuming we have super long cd abilities with high value).
And even if you have a lookout and he stands right outside your room, as I've said, your room might be a dead end and the only way out is through another group. But at this point you're at low mana/health because you were engaging the mob, so any kind of pvp would be hugely disadvantages to you. And depending on how Intrepid sets up loot rights checks, if you just run out of the room and the newcomers finish out the mob (because they've got all their abilities at the ready) - you might lose your valuable loot. And if you don't run away, we come back to the "pvp is shitty for you cause you're not at full power".
None of these things were really an issue in L2 because pve was super basic, but if Ashes will indeed have complex and hard pve then there's gotta be a way to manipulate mobs in your favor, in case someone comes to take them from you. The newcomers would have the same tools too, at which point it'd become a game of chess and proper party gameplay, where the more skilled group should ultimately win.
It's my understanding that the dungeon story arcs unlocked through node progression only influence the content and objectives throughout a dungeon and don't have any fail conditions or impose any negative effects on a region.
Is it not true that these fail conditions only apply to random raid events, NPC node attacks, seasonal events, etc, and not semi persistent dungeons?
I'm not stating it as fact but I've failed to find any information stating the intended design is for dungeons in AoC is to have fail conditions or impose any negative effects on the region. Only that the story arcs influence the content and objectives of the dungeon.
If you have any quotes or references proving otherwise I'd be happy to adjust my thinking on the topic.
Lots of things in Ashes can be a story arc.
I think you may be referring to Events?
But, I'm still not aware of a dev quote that says "Only Event bosses will have deleterious effects outside of the dungeon/raid that players will want to end."