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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Player gets an increased death penalty for becoming corrupted. Not a victim here, had it coming. With me so far?
Then they're not doing it anymore. No non-consentual killing. No additional criminal activity. They're doing what's perfectly acceptable in AoC - consentual PvP. Another example of what's perfectly acceptable is... walking. Yet one of these activities punishes the criminal additionally while the other doesn't. This is where we have an issue: a criminal, who's already being punished for their criminal deeds, is additionally punished for one type of non-criminal deed but not the other. But wait, there's more! They're only punished for said non-criminal deed if the other party, that consented to PvP, happens to be green. How is consenting to PvP a red as a green different from doing the same as a purple/BH? What's the logic here? Why make consentual PvP vs greens different from consentual PvP vs non-greens?
And there's a penalty for that. Simple as that.
Here you're talking about the act of becoming corrupted, right? Not consentual PvP afterwards? If so, I'm with you so far. Otherwise, it's the same as high level purple attacking low level green, and low level green fighting back.
Why would I ever do that? I don't get any benefit for doing this as a red, because my own death penalty is worse than if I did that as a purple. Remember that the change I suggested makes consented greens into purples, so they get purple death penalty. Being red doesn't benefit me in this case, besides perhaps giving more incentive for others to actually have a fight with me, which is consentual PvP and that's great.
This is called consentual PvP and is a system that already exists, I invented nothing, only applied it to where it belongs.
This "balance" you speak of is unfavorable for both parties, unless the whole plan of the green player is to increase the red player's corruption, and I don't think such sketchy strategies should be encouraged by the game.
And my case is, it would be better if neither got additionally punished (red gaining more corruption, green losing more resources), for this is consentual PvP, not mindless griefing/PKing.
This is consentual PvP. If the devs wanted to prevent consentual PvP in open world, they would. It's the NON-consentual PvP that the corruption system is supposed to reduce.
Perfect, that's consentual PvP! They can do the same against non-corrupted as well, only in the case of red, they don't have to worry about red not fighting back. Plus better potential rewards.
Grief the griefer back? I don't think that's what the game wants to encourage. You're already being penalized for your criminal activity, not sure why it warrants additional penalties for not doing anything bad.
Again you're providing suggestions to survive the system, when nobody asked. Just because there are workarounds, that doesn't justify the flaws of the system.
It may be working as intended, but its current design is worse than it could be, hence the discussion.
Honestly, if your entire argument hinges on: "5 seconds after committing a crime, I'm no longer a criminal. I'm now a Red identifying as Green" then you've just lost the north entirely.
You being Red at all IS agreeing to PvP. It doesn't become non consensual when other do it to you, whilst you're Red. But you get further punished for having initiated non-consensual PvP (which you seem to be sweeping under the rug repeatedly, like it wasn't even a big deal).
Giving Greens their larger death penalties simply makes it harder for them to wanna fight you, just to karma bomb you so to speak. And if you have people whom you've pissed off enough to do so? Then you deserve the extra corruption *shrug*
You're talking as if I'm trying to remove the punishment for becoming red. I'm talking about removing additional punishment for not doing bad things.
Feel free to keep punishing me for continuing to do non-consentual PvP (as in, me going on a killing spree vs greens that don't fight back). If both parties fight though, that's consentual. That's not griefing, that's not criminal activity, that's not something corruption was designed to prevent. Why punish it in this very specific circumstance?
Which is bad for greens and should be changed. People who don't want to PvP, won't do consentual PvP. People who want to PvP, will do consentual PvP, yet against red they're for some reason locked as "non-PvPers".
Only you have an issue with it. Keep going for another 7 pages.
Then you might actually be dumb enough not to understand what you're proposing. Your punishment includes the risk of potentially gaining more corruption.
You not wanting that, is equal to wanting to remove a portion of your punishment.
And again, you've done a bad thing. Until you clear off you're corruption, you're akin to still be doing a bad thing.
Imagine if someone killed a person in the street to steal their wallet and then claimed self defence when they killed someone else who attacked them to stop them.
Every time you type the same excuse of "Oh but I'm not doing anything bad anymore" you're lowering the general IQ of these forums.
There is a reason that L2 refers to the mechanic as Karma. Has nothing to do with "criminal" activity.
Greens not flagging Combatant when they fight Reds is not bad for Greens.
If a Corrupted kills a Green, the Green still gets the same death penalties they would for killing other monsters.
It removes the element of Choice that they'd have had, had they been attacked by a Purple instead. That element of choice has been: "Well, if someone attacks you, you can choose to not fight back in the hopes that they'll stop due to not wanting Corruption, or you can choose to fight back and either kill them first or protect half your drops."
You don't get that same choice when attacked by a Red. A Red is already somebody who's willing to be Corrupted, and attacking you, has already accepted that they're going to become more so. Only, you don't get to protect half your drops.
By not turning Greens into Purples upon attacking a Red, you're allowing for Bounty hunters to matter.
If any green could kill reds without its usual increased death penalties (compared to a purple), then Bounty hunters would be out of a job, and that entire social organization would be useless.
Corrupted are monsters. If a Green attacks a Red and the Red kills the Green, the Red gets more Corruption. The fairness of that balances out by the Green getting normal death penalties if they are killed. The Green is still making a Choice.
A Green will not have the same consequences when attacking a Red as they would when they initiate a fair fight by attacking a Purple.
A Red is a monster. A Green gets the normal death penalties they would for killing any other monster.
Aren't we all sinners?
- Against reds in particular, greens are removed the choice of being treated as combatants even if they're literally PvPers or just innocent PvEers wishing to preserve their resources. Oh there's a higher level red coming to get you? Well too fucking bad, enjoy your full death penalty! Damn, if only that guy was green/purple instead... Darn reds, they have it good... Corruption system FTW!
- Against greens in particular, reds can't fight back without risking additional penalty on top of what they signed up for by becoming corrupted. Because hey, they've committed a crime, so fuck them, their punishment should increase in these very specific circumstances where they're defending not against BHs or combatants, but greens!
The fact that it's stated that it's still going to need testing means no, the system isn't obviously perfect, and may need adjustments.
You say the risk of additional corruption gain for activity that normally wouldn't be considered criminal is part of the penalty. That's a perfectly valid point of view. I just disagree that it should be like that, especially when it applies in weirdly specific circumstances. It doesn't make the game better or more interesting (for anyone, not just reds).
But hey, PvE brain is PvE brain, obviously you're incapable of comprehending the fact that this part of corruption system isn't flawless, so I'll just add you to the list of PvE brains I ignore, next to Dygz.
But don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience in stupidity.
I've provided all of the reasons why and he doesn't like any of them. He just wants to PK and not accept the full breadth of penalties afforded for that.
Corruption bomb to infinite cycle of corruption is griefing. A slightly adjusted system can make things better and reduce the amount of corruption lost on death so they are still losing more if they are hunted down. Force them to have to work it off while being hunted longer and dealing with their punishment
You seem to want to support griefing though.
BTW there is a pvp life time count on your account and the more people you kill the higher corruption you gain every time.
End of the day its people voicing that aren't really for PvP, or will never go corrupted so they just want someone to have as high as possible to 100% death rate as they can get lmao.
@JamesSunderland in L2 did killing more people permanently give you more corruption every kill after on your character/account. Do you lose stats for the higher your corruption?
If a green player initiate a fight on a red player, the green player should takes same risk like the red player in stead of normal death penalty, it should be more death penalty than normal and maybe will stack to punish players who trying to abuse corruption system by using the role of green player to make red player can’t really achieve what Intrepid allows red player to do which like what Steven said in past stream that there are chances you will meet players who can’t be reasonable and encounter really bad situations you really hate and he think it’s ok to allow player to commit to kill another player with some conditions, and in other hand maybe should consider to decrease the death penalty if a green player keep killed by other players in a short time to prevent situations like players try to PK with multiple characters or accounts which means organized PK.
Because there is bounty hunter system for pvp players already, so point is if a green player is also happen to be a pvp player willing to kill red player, should bounty hunter system be able to toggle on and off no matter where the player is just one click then just join the fight.
I think that outnumbered pk and baiting pk are also problems, for example at beginning it seems a 1v1 fight between A and B but player B’s teammates of were hiding far or just stealth in shadow before the fight start, player B is just a bait to encourage A fight back to become purple, once A turns to purple B’s teammates will join the fight immediately to kill A, I don’t know that should or shouldn’t to use corruption system to deal with these kind of situations because it’s can be hard and complex to do it good enough.
In Lineage 2 you had the Karma points and your PK count, the higher the PK count the more Karma you received per kill "permanently" on that character, Karma points being lost by dying or killing monsters and your PK count can be removed through a quest called "Repent Your Sins" that would give a "Sin Eater" Devil pet that would need to be leveled up to max level, and no, no matter how high your karma point or PK count would be, it would never make you lose stats.
Aren't we all sinners?
Green attacking red could just make them purple to that red exclusively and not everyone else (like BHs are only combatants to reds), and it'd solve this. Reds would still receive corrupted death penalty, and greens would receive combatant level of death penalty. Everyone happy (except carebears, because god forbid you have a reason to kill another player even if they don't fight back).
Just to clear up a little ambiguity do you think it would be fair to say your position is that it would make the game less fun for reds specifically (let's ignore the green part of it as there is a bounty hunting system that is capable of solving this if IS so chooses to.)
Are there any other side effects to the game play that you forsee given the current status quo?
It will be less fun (while already being not fun the right amount) to anyone that is negatively affected by it, so self-defending reds and non-aggressive greens. Might be more fun to greens that choose to abuse it, though.
Being Red is the indicator that you are an active criminal who has not resolved their karma, ie worked off the corruption. Either learn to accept the consequences and risks of your actions, or stop PKing non-combatants. It really is that simple
You realize you can simply not continue killing greens right? You’re completely able to accept karma and end the corruption cycle. You, in all your wisdom, really are out here thinking your active choices to make the situation worse means you’re being “griefed”. I can’t roll my eyes hard enough
On another topic, some comments in this thread have implied that PvE players, or perhaps I should say 'anything less than a pure PvP player', is somehow flawed. Somehow less worthy. Somehow a player who should be despised and made fun of, a weak person, a joke. I do not agree with that. I trust that IS does not agree with that because those players are what is going to power the economy of the game, make the game a success and make it profitable. Don't look down on the PvE community, they will make AoC a success.
if you think you are simply going to be able to run away from someone that easily when a group is chasing you everywhere no matter the grind spot that won't be the case. This depends on the density of the area as well you are underestimating what people will do.
Bh hunter and a group of greens and it doesn't matter where you go you have no choice but to die or gain corruption.
The lower the PK score on a characters window, the less corruption is accumulated per new kill.