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CLASS affect CHARACTER LOOK

SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
edited September 10 in General Discussion
Level 50 fighter should look more muscular than a level 1.

Actually one of the reasons I like the idea of 'Exhaustion' in the game is how it can specifically affect the way the player gains stats and changes their appearance. Closer to exhaustion and more often, with more food, the greater muscle gain; since that's how muscle increases.

It should boil down to whether your head is big enough to be a level 50 Wizard, and whether your muscles are big enough to be a level 50 Fighter. Minimum thresholds.

Unarmed fighter? Big hands. Carrying big backpack everywhere with 100 lbs in it? Larger frame.

If you start with an anorexic Fighter or Tank and another person starts with the buffest possible Fighter or Tank; the buffest should become buffer probably through definition and ridiculous levels of buff; while the anorexic person reaches good but not crazy levels of buff.

Haven't eaten in days while hiking marathons with 200 lbs of stuff on? Lose some weight.

Wizard? Big head, facial hair. Ranger? well-rounded and broad back, broad waist too. Rogue? Lean and mean. Darker or more 'charismatic' look. Necromancer? Pale. Cleric? More balanced features I guess. Bard? Warm complexion.

Comments

  • SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
    edited September 23


  • So, we spend all that time in the Character Creator, making our character look exactly how we want, and then it changes once we're levelled up? Sounds kinda sucky.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    All of this is simply another case of "perfectly fine idea, for a different game".

    The ideas you are talking about here need to be a part of a game from inception, not shoehorned in after a few years of development. These ideas also dont mesh overly well with a game that has you purchase your characters looks - they need to be a part of a game where your characters look is purely a product of in game activities.
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    So, we spend all that time in the Character Creator, making our character look exactly how we want, and then it changes once we're levelled up? Sounds kinda sucky.

    Much of the look would still be there. The face would be similar. The level of change can be tuned.
    In fact, you can preview what the level 50 char is going to look like and 'steer' the proportions, easily.

    The point is you slowly become your class (class becomes part of character).
    Your skeleton Fighter doesn't have to become an Orc leveling to 50. But there should be some significant change.

    If information is hidden for PvP it is better to have a sense of what class someone probably is as they approach you or before you approach them.

    It's more organic and makes the World more real than seeing goofy shit all the time. It's worth it, over cheap gags.

    The Character Creator makes it easy to have this kind of "Character Progression".

  • This would definitely work well in a different game, but for an MMORPG you want player expression to remain fairly unrestricted, especially when it comes to ones own character.

    If you tie appearance to stats, people will minmax it to the point where you only see a handful of template characters for any given role. You can even see this effect in the real world just by pure selection pressure, imagine how bad it would be in a world where you can choose your appearance.

    I don't mind the idea of your character physically changing based on what they do, in fact I think that's a really cool idea, but it should definitely be optional and purely visual.
  • Solmyr wrote: »
    This would definitely work well in a different game, but for an MMORPG you want player expression to remain fairly unrestricted, especially when it comes to ones own character.

    If you tie appearance to stats, people will minmax it to the point where you only see a handful of template characters for any given role. You can even see this effect in the real world just by pure selection pressure, imagine how bad it would be in a world where you can choose your appearance.

    I don't mind the idea of your character physically changing based on what they do, in fact I think that's a really cool idea, but it should definitely be optional and purely visual.

    Ahhhhh, HoMM3 flashbacks from your username :)

    Good times <3<3<3
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 23
    20 years ago, chosing a race had 2 consequences :
    1) define your look
    2) define part of the build.

    To take example everyone will easily see... Dnd3.5 (or currently, pathfinder)
    with moon elf, you get +2 dex -2 con, and with shield dwarf... +2 con and -2 dext.
    Both could be good with bow, but elf far better... while the dwarf is more fitted for front line spot.

    And to follow what customers asked... most games now, including pen&paper RPG reduced the impact of the race in builds... The race restriction on classes is now see as a flaw for games. And wizard of the coast, in oneD&D (the 6th edition) will allow to have any base racial bonus with any race.

    The global tendency so is... decorelate the character look with the character role. This is not what us here on this forum ask, this is what majority of RPG enjoyers (be it on video game or pen&paper) asked. . . I admit myself not fan of this, this is another reason for me to prefer dd3.5/pathfinder to dd5... but after speaking with lot of people clearly, "the liberty to chose the character look without have it to impact the character build" is clearly what majority wants, explaining this choice from game creators. . .


    You idea is worse than the race choice for the build. I mean, you consider fighter to have big muscle... what about swashbuckler ? those are more on fighter side than rogue side but are not based on strength. maybe there will be good fighter build using dagger which, in people's mind is bind to... dext not str


    So your idea has 2 flaws :
    It is against what most people wants (so push the game in a niche... and you dislike niche)
    It reduce the character customisation and not make it grow.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Level 50 fighter should look more muscular than a level 1.

    Actually one of the reasons I like the idea of 'Exhaustion' in the game is how it can specifically affect the way the player gains stats and changes their appearance. Closer to exhaustion and more often, with more food, the greater muscle gain; since that's how muscle increases.

    It should boil down to whether your head is big enough to be a level 50 Wizard, and whether your muscles are big enough to be a level 50 Fighter. Minimum thresholds.

    Unarmed fighter? Big hands. Carrying big backpack everywhere with 100 lbs in it? Larger frame.

    If you start with an anorexic Fighter or Tank and another person starts with the buffest possible Fighter or Tank; the buffest should become buffer probably through definition and ridiculous levels of buff; while the anorexic person reaches good but not crazy levels of buff.

    Haven't eaten in days while hiking marathons with 200 lbs of stuff on? Lose some weight.

    Wizard? Big head, facial hair. Ranger? well-rounded and broad back, broad waist too. Rogue? Lean and mean. Darker or more 'charismatic' look. Necromancer? Pale. Cleric? More balanced features I guess. Bard? Warm complexion.

    I feel like this doesn't represent real life very well, only a shallow and possibly misguided perception of it.

    We used to think that a lot of these things were VERY tied to physical traits, now we mostly know that they're not, particularly in a game with magic and lots of well made martial weaponry, and, as with most MMOs, minimal grappling/ability to knock down the opponent and fight on the ground.

    This just leads into weird things similar to genderlocked games too.

    You say 'Wizard, big head, facial hair', but then what's 'Witch'?
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • I would hope that the gear you will wear changes characters' visuals enough to make you look interesting enough towards a role. In other words some gear will make you look like a tank, other gear will make you look like a magic wielder, other gear will make you look like an assassin, etc. regardless of your class.

    No need to make a character's physical features change based on your experience/class/level/whatever else. One thing I would be a fan of is for hair to grow and in case it doesn't grow I hope you can change your hair color/size and add/remove tattoos if you go to a magical hairdresser NPC.

    So, at least for now, any other physical appearance changes are unnecessary and one should be able to get the appearance they want during character creation.
  • Solmyr wrote: »
    This would definitely work well in a different game, but for an MMORPG you want player expression to remain fairly unrestricted, especially when it comes to ones own character.

    If you tie appearance to stats, people will minmax it to the point where you only see a handful of template characters for any given role. You can even see this effect in the real world just by pure selection pressure, imagine how bad it would be in a world where you can choose your appearance.

    I don't mind the idea of your character physically changing based on what they do, in fact I think that's a really cool idea, but it should definitely be optional and purely visual.

    I didn't mean that appearance affects stats, but that stats affects appearance.
  • Aerlana wrote: »
    20 years ago, chosing a race had 2 consequences :
    1) define your look
    2) define part of the build.

    To take example everyone will easily see... Dnd3.5 (or currently, pathfinder)
    with moon elf, you get +2 dex -2 con, and with shield dwarf... +2 con and -2 dext.
    Both could be good with bow, but elf far better... while the dwarf is more fitted for front line spot.

    And to follow what customers asked... most games now, including pen&paper RPG reduced the impact of the race in builds... The race restriction on classes is now see as a flaw for games. And wizard of the coast, in oneD&D (the 6th edition) will allow to have any base racial bonus with any race.

    The global tendency so is... decorelate the character look with the character role. This is not what us here on this forum ask, this is what majority of RPG enjoyers (be it on video game or pen&paper) asked. . . I admit myself not fan of this, this is another reason for me to prefer dd3.5/pathfinder to dd5... but after speaking with lot of people clearly, "the liberty to chose the character look without have it to impact the character build" is clearly what majority wants, explaining this choice from game creators. . .


    You idea is worse than the race choice for the build. I mean, you consider fighter to have big muscle... what about swashbuckler ? those are more on fighter side than rogue side but are not based on strength. maybe there will be good fighter build using dagger which, in people's mind is bind to... dext not str


    So your idea has 2 flaws :
    It is against what most people wants (so push the game in a niche... and you dislike niche)
    It reduce the character customisation and not make it grow.

    Character customization in itself is a gimmick and people ask for dumb stuff all the time.
    The REAL trend is to lose spine and bend to every whim of customers once the money starts rolling in LMAO

    Based on attributes is what I intended and I don't intend for initial appearance to really affect stats, but there be a limit to how extreme your character visually can deviate from your attribute.

    Nothing should really be detracting from the world.
    Gimmick Goofy Jokes can lie in their Grave.

    Again: People complain, say, ask for, hate, dumb shit all the time.
    People who start a company have spine and that softens over-time as money and ### of customers start going up.

    When they have no profits and small ## of customers -> spine is intact because it's less intimidating.
  • Azherae wrote: »
    Level 50 fighter should look more muscular than a level 1.

    Actually one of the reasons I like the idea of 'Exhaustion' in the game is how it can specifically affect the way the player gains stats and changes their appearance. Closer to exhaustion and more often, with more food, the greater muscle gain; since that's how muscle increases.

    It should boil down to whether your head is big enough to be a level 50 Wizard, and whether your muscles are big enough to be a level 50 Fighter. Minimum thresholds.

    Unarmed fighter? Big hands. Carrying big backpack everywhere with 100 lbs in it? Larger frame.

    If you start with an anorexic Fighter or Tank and another person starts with the buffest possible Fighter or Tank; the buffest should become buffer probably through definition and ridiculous levels of buff; while the anorexic person reaches good but not crazy levels of buff.

    Haven't eaten in days while hiking marathons with 200 lbs of stuff on? Lose some weight.

    Wizard? Big head, facial hair. Ranger? well-rounded and broad back, broad waist too. Rogue? Lean and mean. Darker or more 'charismatic' look. Necromancer? Pale. Cleric? More balanced features I guess. Bard? Warm complexion.

    I feel like this doesn't represent real life very well, only a shallow and possibly misguided perception of it.

    We used to think that a lot of these things were VERY tied to physical traits, now we mostly know that they're not, particularly in a game with magic and lots of well made martial weaponry, and, as with most MMOs, minimal grappling/ability to knock down the opponent and fight on the ground.

    This just leads into weird things similar to genderlocked games too.

    You say 'Wizard, big head, facial hair', but then what's 'Witch'?

    I'd like to keep range and look for a large pool of examples.

    Muscle and such still impacts strength and definitely injury prevention. Someone 'gifted' in powerlifting can be pretty scrawny but usually have the bone/limb/torso structure for it and use minimal range of motion. Strength, Agility, Stamina, and Constitution is still very much tied to standard muscle.
    For those that are scrawny and running ultra-marathons: they are doing everything to keep their weight minimal. If you increase the weight on their body slightly their endurance suffers greatly. They only have endurance at a very low level of strength.
    For strength athletes: Look at Strongman competitions.
    For agility: Agile people have a minimum of musculature or are quite small. Even basketball players, being tall and 'lanky' are more muscular. Sprinters have a decent amount of leg musculature (definition & size).

    Combining any physical attributes, expanding the range of motion, increasing variability; you get muscle. Through extreme focus, extremely focusing one's 'ability', you get deviations from such.

    So general physicality boils down to muscle. Very important for injury prevention as well.
    Muscle growth generally boils down to pushing close to strength failure then using less weight and pushing close to failure again (which can be done by doing a different exercise that uses that muscle somewhat).
    So if a person never pushes to muscular exhaustion they are taking a long long long road to the goal, and will, all else equal, have a worse baseline fitness compared to someone who simply pushed to failure on exercises.

    Strength, Agility, and even Stamina and Constitution are partially 'skill' though. That 'skill' can help one target specific areas they want to improve as well.

    So yes it has some layers to it.

    As for Mages, Summoners, Bards and Clerics -->> who knows lol. It would have to be tied to their magic more than something physical. But Wizards probably strain their brain pretty hard all the time, similar to PUSHING TO THE LIMIT for muscle growth so Big Head makes perfect sense. I can relate, my head is big and so are my muscles, and I know why LMAO. Same push to exhaustion for my brain as well.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Azherae wrote: »
    Level 50 fighter should look more muscular than a level 1.

    Actually one of the reasons I like the idea of 'Exhaustion' in the game is how it can specifically affect the way the player gains stats and changes their appearance. Closer to exhaustion and more often, with more food, the greater muscle gain; since that's how muscle increases.

    It should boil down to whether your head is big enough to be a level 50 Wizard, and whether your muscles are big enough to be a level 50 Fighter. Minimum thresholds.

    Unarmed fighter? Big hands. Carrying big backpack everywhere with 100 lbs in it? Larger frame.

    If you start with an anorexic Fighter or Tank and another person starts with the buffest possible Fighter or Tank; the buffest should become buffer probably through definition and ridiculous levels of buff; while the anorexic person reaches good but not crazy levels of buff.

    Haven't eaten in days while hiking marathons with 200 lbs of stuff on? Lose some weight.

    Wizard? Big head, facial hair. Ranger? well-rounded and broad back, broad waist too. Rogue? Lean and mean. Darker or more 'charismatic' look. Necromancer? Pale. Cleric? More balanced features I guess. Bard? Warm complexion.

    I feel like this doesn't represent real life very well, only a shallow and possibly misguided perception of it.

    We used to think that a lot of these things were VERY tied to physical traits, now we mostly know that they're not, particularly in a game with magic and lots of well made martial weaponry, and, as with most MMOs, minimal grappling/ability to knock down the opponent and fight on the ground.

    This just leads into weird things similar to genderlocked games too.

    You say 'Wizard, big head, facial hair', but then what's 'Witch'?

    As for Mages, Summoners, Bards and Clerics -->> who knows lol. It would have to be tied to their magic more than something physical. But Wizards probably strain their brain pretty hard all the time, similar to PUSHING TO THE LIMIT for muscle growth so Big Head makes perfect sense. I can relate, my head is big and so are my muscles, and I know why LMAO. Same push to exhaustion for my brain as well.

    Right but there's a difference between:

    "I have a naturally large head and brain."

    and

    "I have so many ideas and think so much of them that I have a swelled head."
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
    edited September 24
    @Azherae
    The difference doesn't need to be elaborated upon. Both can exist; and I am pretty sure anyone with a big head pushes their brain (reality here). Unless their skull is extremely thick or something and/or there's a lot of tissue wrapped around it.
    Those that push their mind may not have a big brain but sharp features instead though; just like one can have definition rather than size with muscle.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Azherae
    The difference doesn't need to be elaborated upon. Both can exist; and I am pretty sure anyone with a big head pushes their brain (reality here). Unless their skull is extremely thick or something and/or there's a lot of tissue wrapped around it.
    Those that push their mind may not have a big brain but sharp features instead though; just like one can have definition rather than size with muscle.

    Features as in, facial features?

    I'm really not too versed in the morphology of the brain-to-facial-structure connection, so I'm not sure if you mean something else.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
    edited September 24
    Yes face and/or bone structure. Skull mostly since it encases the brain.
    Face tends to express a person's mind and brain as well. Eyes formed by pinching a piece of brain while in the womb, something with that would make sense too.
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