Don't buy shit you cant afford then? Exercise some personal responsibility?
All you need to play the game is the base sub cost of 15 dollars a month, expansions are free. No one is forcing you to buy pixels. Let all the whale lords purchase 10 bazillion dollars worth of cosmetics that don't do anything in order to keep the cost of the game low for people like you with no money.
Otherwise youd be paying way more without them.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And i'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
Yet the problem is reality and it cannot be changed without massive repercussions. So you cant really expect things to change. Sorry.
Don't buy shit you cant afford then? Exercise some personal responsibility?
All you need to play the game is the base sub cost of 15 dollars a month, expansions are free. No one is forcing you to buy pixels. Let all the whale lords purchase 10 bazillion dollars worth of cosmetics that don't do anything in order to keep the cost of the game low for people like you with no money.
Otherwise youd be paying way more without them.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And i'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
What if it's not for profit? What if it's literally just to fund more development and subsidize poor people's sub fees?
What if it's not for profit? What if it's literally just to fund more development and subsidize poor people's sub fees?
If this was the case every dev / artist / tester / lead / ceo would make the same amount at a game studio. News flash no one needs to make millions a year to live comfortably. But like @Sathrago said above, this is reality. Steven would not have dumped about 20 million of his own cash into AOC if he didn't expect to make it back and much much more.
What if it's not for profit? What if it's literally just to fund more development and subsidize poor people's sub fees?
If this was the case every dev / artist / tester / lead / ceo would make the same amount at a game studio. News flash no one needs to make millions a year to live comfortably. But like @Sathrago said above, this is reality. Steven would not have dumped about 20 million of his own cash into AOC if he didn't expect to make it back and much much more.
Wait, don't you know how much Intrepid Devs 'make'?
Salary offers aren't THAT hard to find.
Anyways, no, Steven does not do this with the intention of profiting in the way you'd normally think of that word.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited October 2022
The way I see it is both your outlook on how much the game costs, how much enjoyment I get out of it and sometimes the two are not proportionate.
I bought cosmetics from Path of Exile for no other reason than I got so many hours enjoyment out of the game, I wanted to give something back. I never used them. Buying small capital outlay of some cosmetics my end, did not come close to recompense for the hours of enjoyment I got. Similar with War Thunder. I even bought the expansions to Kingdom Come Deliverance and never used them as I was so impressed with the game.
For ashes, if I see cosmetics I like I may buy, I may not, but if I gain far more enjoyment than I believe the subscriptions costs, I would be happy to support Intrepid and the future development.
As for monthly subscription, well the fact that subs have not really increased much, if at all, in many years I imagine then becomes a numbers game to keep a high player base to be viable to contiue.
Either way, I think both monthly fee at the economical rate they have proposed will mean the game hopefully is not gated from those financially challenged and the cosmetics do bring in enough support keep the margins balanced and the game progressing.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And i'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
FOMO marketing might be considered exploitation, but just having a cash shop for cosmetics is not exploiting your player base.
The way I see it is both your outlook on how much the game costs, how much enjoyment I get out of it and sometimes the two are not proportionate.
I bought cosmetics from Path of Exile for no other reason than I got so many hours enjoyment out of the game, I wanted to give something back. I never used them. Buying small capital outlay of some cosmetics my end, did not come close to recompense for the hours of enjoyment I got. Similar with War Thunder. I even bought the expansions to Kingdom Come Deliverance and never used them as I was so impressed with the game.
For ashes, if I see cosmetics I like I may buy, I may not, but if I gain far more enjoyment than I believe the subscriptions costs, I would be happy to support Intrepid and the future development.
As for monthly subscription, well the fact that subs have not really increased much, if at all, in many years I imagine then becomes a numbers game to keep a high player base to be viable to contiue.
Either way, I think both monthly fee at the economical rate they have proposed will mean the game hopefully is not gated from those financially challenged and the cosmetics do bring in enough support keep the margins balanced and the game progressing.
I think they have made the right choice!
HEAR, HEAR
It's weird enough that the argument has devolved into: "we need to protect the whales"
but not real ocean whales.
Way to lump yourself in with all of the other devs that are ruining gaming with cash shops. I'm super tired of cash shops in these games. Pay real world money for cosmetic or pay to win items. I know that your game doesn't have pay to win stuff, but still. When I play an MMO or ARPG, I expect to be able to have the ability and opportunity to find unique items on my own, without having to pay money to buy them. That is the fun and draw of games like this, DISCOVERY and LOOT. That magic is gone with these stupid and greedy cash shops.
I know, I am also tired of modern MMO"s having the coolest looking armor behind a paywall. I am ok with some cosmetic things like, different looks for mounts, but it is a slippery slope to go down. I really miss the days when you got the coolest, most stat strong armor pieces, mounts and player housing material from completing quests, completing Dungeons or Raids or getting a certain amount of accomplishment in PvP, like the old Honor system. I do appreciate that Steven already said they will never have convenience items in the shop, like experience boosters. But I also do NOT want the coolest gear to be in the shop only. So believe me, plenty of people share your opinion, and I hope Intrepid sees that and acts accordingly for the future of this product.
In my opinion quality of cash shop cosmetics should be equal to in game achievable cosmetics, but offer a diverse selection of unique looks.[8] – Steven Sharif
It's pretty obvious the game would be inaccessible to many.
limited runs of items so people can get thousands of $$$ in debt. How many times have you heard of that happening?
Way to lump yourself in with all of the other devs that are ruining gaming with cash shops. I'm super tired of cash shops in these games. Pay real world money for cosmetic or pay to win items. I know that your game doesn't have pay to win stuff, but still. When I play an MMO or ARPG, I expect to be able to have the ability and opportunity to find unique items on my own, without having to pay money to buy them. That is the fun and draw of games like this, DISCOVERY and LOOT. That magic is gone with these stupid and greedy cash shops.
I know, I am also tired of modern MMO"s having the coolest looking armor behind a paywall. I am ok with some cosmetic things like, different looks for mounts, but it is a slippery slope to go down. I really miss the days when you got the coolest, most stat strong armor pieces, mounts and player housing material from completing quests, completing Dungeons or Raids or getting a certain amount of accomplishment in PvP, like the old Honor system. I do appreciate that Steven already said they will never have convenience items in the shop, like experience boosters. But I also do NOT want the coolest gear to be in the shop only. So believe me, plenty of people share your opinion, and I hope Intrepid sees that and acts accordingly for the future of this product.
Rejoice! Steven frequently explains that in-game achievable items will look as cool or cooler than the cash shop ones, as well as allowing you to equip pieces individually (cash shop sets are all-or-nothing).
Okay now think of all the people in your same situation who wouldn't find the increased cost justifiable. Because I can tell you there'd be alot out there. We already get people coming in asking about lowered subscription fees due to their country of origin now. Imagine what it would be like if they doubled the price.
It's pretty obvious the game would be inaccessible to many.
Honestly better that than exploiting peoples FOMO with cash shop items, sales, limited runs of items so people can get thousands of $$$ in debt. How many times have you heard of that happening? And on the stupidest games ever? And it's always people like me that can not afford it. sooo... yeah. I'd rather it be a static amount that can't be exploited.
FOMO is a weakness of yours which you can easily get over by not wanting to spend all of your money on stuff that doesn't matter. It's not some psychic wizardry forcing you to buy them. Lootboxes and RNG loot/gambling are the thing that get people the most in debt in videogames. Not a company trying to fund its game to be ever better and complete, by releasing cosmetics which will serve to populate the world as well as giving players something nice if they want it.
I've been here for 2 years and I found a great many of the packs to be enticing. I missed some and went "Oh well, no biggie." I bought one, and haven't bought anything else since because they either didn't appeal to me, or I thought: "Eh it's cool, but I don't need to spend x €/$ on this right now".
If you can't resist the temptation to buy it, that's a mental health issue that needs to be checked, and not Intrepid's fault.
Way to lump yourself in with all of the other devs that are ruining gaming with cash shops. I'm super tired of cash shops in these games. Pay real world money for cosmetic or pay to win items. I know that your game doesn't have pay to win stuff, but still. When I play an MMO or ARPG, I expect to be able to have the ability and opportunity to find unique items on my own, without having to pay money to buy them. That is the fun and draw of games like this, DISCOVERY and LOOT. That magic is gone with these stupid and greedy cash shops.
Game was ruined with tab target a long time ago not a cash shop.
When I play an MMO or ARPG, I expect to be able to have the ability and opportunity to find unique items on my own, without having to pay money to buy them. That is the fun and draw of games like this, DISCOVERY and LOOT. That magic is gone with these stupid and greedy cash shops.
I think you will still have this opportunity 100%. In my experience, cash shop cosmetics hold no impressive value in the eyes of dedicated players... no one sees someone in cash shop gear and thinks "Oh wow, that must be a very skilled and devoted player!" It's more like, "Oh, he's got money." The truly valuable items are all acquired through gameplay. The rest is pretty inconsequential.
Don't buy shit you cant afford then? Exercise some personal responsibility?
All you need to play the game is the base sub cost of 15 dollars a month, expansions are free. No one is forcing you to buy pixels. Let all the whale lords purchase 10 bazillion dollars worth of cosmetics that don't do anything in order to keep the cost of the game low for people like you with no money.
Otherwise you'd be paying way more without them.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And I'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
honestly, this is the problem with the world today. the concept of personal responsibility is lost. You should be owed something... its not your fault. the system is set up against you. How is offering something for sale considered "exploiting" people... for real, get a grip... you will be in big trouble if you ever find ebay.com or amazon.com.
if you cant afford it, or if you don't like it. don't buy it. For gods sake, Steven has even said, and I quote, "we don't need your money to finish the game."
We even have people on this forum who have paid 500.00 for a pvx game and then refuse (vocally and repeatedly, and to everyone who will listen) to play because the "x" part leans too heavily to the pvp side, without even having the actual opportunity to play the game, and then have the audacity to pretend to be the victim somehow. Good lord, please let it stop.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And i'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
You have a bit of a misread of the situation.
Game developers or publishers that charge full price for a game, and then nickle and dime players via cash shop on top of that are a problem. Developers that have any form of gambling that involves real money expenditure are a problem.
Developers that legitimately find their game via cash shops are not the problem. Not at all.
If Ashes had a box cost to it, charged for additional content and charged players a subscription, then we would all be complaining about the game also having a cash shop.
However, they opted to not have a box cost, and also to not charge for additional content. As such, even with a subscription, having a cash shop is perfectly fine. It is perfectly valid to swap one income stream for another, the issue is when it is an addition rather than a swap.
As to FOMO, I have literally never come across anyone that "suffers" from it. As far as I can tell, it is simply a made up term that people with no self control devised.
If it is indeed something you consider you "suffer" from, I would then have to ask you how you handled things like the Bentley Continental GT Speed Brietling Jet Team Series. Only 7 of those were ever made - you didnt miss out on one did you?
If a person has a legitimate issue with missing out on limited time offers, they simply would not be able to function in the modern world. This would be a serious issue, and no doubt there would be an abundance of professional help offered.
This is why I cwnt see people complaining about "FOMO" as anything other than using it as a disguise for some other issue they have with the cash shop (I assume it is the misread above), and misrepresenting it as some issue that people have.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And i'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
You have a bit of a misread of the situation.
Game developers or publishers that charge full price for a game, and then nickle and dime players via cash shop on top of that are a problem. Developers that have any form of gambling that involves real money expenditure are a problem.
Developers that legitimately find their game via cash shops are not the problem. Not at all.
If Ashes had a box cost to it, charged for additional content and charged players a subscription, then we would all be complaining about the game also having a cash shop.
However, they opted to not have a box cost, and also to not charge for additional content. As such, even with a subscription, having a cash shop is perfectly fine. It is perfectly valid to swap one income stream for another, the issue is when it is an addition rather than a swap.
As to FOMO, I have literally never come across anyone that "suffers" from it. As far as I can tell, it is simply a made up term that people with no self control devised.
If it is indeed something you consider you "suffer" from, I would then have to ask you how you handled things like the Bentley Continental GT Speed Brietling Jet Team Series. Only 7 of those were ever made - you didnt miss out on one did you?
If a person has a legitimate issue with missing out on limited time offers, they simply would not be able to function in the modern world. This would be a serious issue, and no doubt there would be an abundance of professional help offered.
This is why I cwnt see people complaining about "FOMO" as anything other than using it as a disguise for some other issue they have with the cash shop (I assume it is the misread above), and misrepresenting it as some issue that people have.
I see no issues with cash shop because it keeps the subscription price down.
The only thing that worries me is (this may have been answered before, i just didn't look for the answer) the possibility of people buying stuff and then selling them to other players for in game currency. If you know the answer to that, please do let me know
I see no issues with cash shop because it keeps the subscription price down.
The only thing that worries me is (this may have been answered before, i just didn't look for the answer) the possibility of people buying stuff and then selling them to other players for in game currency. If you know the answer to that, please do let me know
I am pretty sure this has already been addressed. It will not happen.
Yeah, all cosmetics are able to be moved to various characters on your account, but can not leave the account they were purchased on.
There was some initial comments with this situation in terms of players wanting to use the same cosmetic on multiple characters, but there being no way to purchase multiple of the same cosmetic. I can see that aspect of it changing at some point (maybe after the game goes live), but they will not allow cosmetics to ever leave the account they were purchased on - not even to swap between family accounts or such.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I see no issues with cash shop because it keeps the subscription price down.
The only thing that worries me is (this may have been answered before, i just didn't look for the answer) the possibility of people buying stuff and then selling them to other players for in game currency. If you know the answer to that, please do let me know
You cant trade anything purchased in the cash shop. Its bound to your account to stop RMT. Theres also no gifting of cash shop items for this reason.
A lot of people seem to think I personally suffer from spending too much on games when I don't have the money too it seems. Even though in their responses to me they are quoting me saying that I personally don't. Again this is not an Issue I bring up cuz I myself am salty about it. I am poor yes. But I live within my means. I don't even own a credit card so I do not rack up debt.
Again just because you or I do not personally suffer from this type of behavior does not mean it does not exist and it is a huge problem. So... sorry for trying to help people I guess?
And if you think you don't suffer from even the slightest bit of marketing (aka seasonal items, sales, get it now before it doesn't come back for a year) then you are just naive. There is a reason some of the biggest publishers / game studios in the world are EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard. And they are all rife with predatory marketing, cash shops, etc.
I also bring these things up because there used to be a time in games where items used to mean something. There used to be a story behind every bit of gear, every mount, every cosmetic, and weapon. And now thanks to cash shops most everything is now "Oh, I just bought that for $20."
So again sorry if I would prefer my game world to actually mean something again. People say that Steven mentioned that there will be variants of cash shop items in game. Will you be able to distinguish them apart? Hopefully... that would be nice.
Still... Everyone who defends even cosmetic cash shops. Really look at how much you spend a year on a cash shop in a game and compare that to a yearly sub. Chances are you spend way more then a sub. Which is why I am for an increased sub price if it means that there is zero cash shop. Because I would like my game to mean something again, I would like pricing overall to be more fair without manipulating people, and I am for this despite being poor and not even knowing if I could afford a monthly sub at an increased price. But Whenever I could afford it, it would mean much more.
Until people start asking for better than average MMOs we will continue to get average MMOs. And if that comes at an increased price then ok.
Everytime this thread gets re-made, I'm always surprised no one brings it up any sooner:
It's specifically been stated and re-stated in the monthly dev update videos that you will 1) be able to get a variant of anything in the cash shop by looting/crafting it in-game, and 2) the best-looking variants of each set of armor/clothing are reserved for in-game achievement.
Given this information, your complaint boils down to: "NO! NOOOOOOO! I don't WANT people to look the way THEY want to, until they've played for SEVERAL MONTHS!"
Just remember: not everyone coming to Verra will be of the lower-classes nor a resource-less orphan; There will be nobility and well-off individuals accompanying the Return. I'm just super-glad that the only things that the cash shop will sell are cosmetic-only items; No one's going to have the ability to turn real cash into in-game money.
Fucking thank you. I was just thinking this when I read your comment.
People are stupid.
Again just because you or I do not personally suffer from this type of behavior does not mean it does not exist and it is a huge problem. So... sorry for trying to help people I guess?
If there are people that actually consider this to be an issue for themself, then they can come here and state as much.
Since this forum isn't full of people making this complaint (yet you are by no means to claim that others have this issue, and are "championing their cause" for them), tells me that this just isn't an issue - its just that a few people think it is.
Either that, or these people are trying to use FOMO as an angle to argue against a cash shop that they have no actual inherent complaint against, just a general dislike towards - or a misread of the reason gamers are against microtransactions.
Way to lump yourself in with all of the other devs that are ruining gaming with cash shops. I'm super tired of cash shops in these games. Pay real world money for cosmetic or pay to win items. I know that your game doesn't have pay to win stuff, but still. When I play an MMO or ARPG, I expect to be able to have the ability and opportunity to find unique items on my own, without having to pay money to buy them. That is the fun and draw of games like this, DISCOVERY and LOOT. That magic is gone with these stupid and greedy cash shops.
Aren't you too old to be complaining about cosmetic cash shop? So long you can also earn unique stuff in game and no pay to win then who cares. You really crying because you want to look good in game and have people validate you over how your character looks.
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TryolMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
How do people expect games like these to be viable? Where do people think money for something like this comes from? There needs to be income generated somewhere. Let's say a server has 8000 players. At $15 per month, per player that's only $120,000 per month per server.
I don't know how many servers AoC hopes to have but I think it is entirely reasonable to put world-building cosmetic assets up for Sale which allows for people to contribute to the development of the project and for additional income to be generated. As long as the lion's share of development is put into creating plenty of cool in-game achievable items then I see it as a perfectly acceptable way to generate some money.
Having a "Cosmetic package" each month with a sub-cost is entirely reasonable. (You don't have to buy them you know) I do think that Intrepid would do themselves a big favor if each Dev update when they show the Cosmetic pack items, they also showed an in-game achievable set.
Pretty sure it'll be like $700 - $2000 server-price per 10k player capacity lol. Assuming there's a lot of data throughput and calculations per player from action combat or whatever.
You forgot to tell us that you will NEVER play the game. you should consider editing your post, so you can be in the ever growing group who feels the need to come here and tell us they will not be playing.
If you're trying to make money you want to know the 'consumer', including their opinion/ input.
Why do you think so many corporations collect and sell data on people? Like Discord LMAO
It's in their privacy statement maybe they removed it at this point HA
But yeah they're juicing all the information they can get from people, might as well speak your mind.
I hate cash shop in subscription MMORPG, and i am always fast to remember that this pandora's box was opened by... blizzard during WOTLK, (and not even a activision decision ! )
FFXIV makes me hate it even more, on wow this cash shop grew (and grow) slowly, for FFXIV it is every 2 week a new thing or more.
For ashes of creation i have also a problem with this monthly addition of things while the game is still a dream.
My problem is not "i don't have money to all those" ... i totally fall for it on BDO, where my Dark Knight has 80% of the outfits (and probably all weapons/awakening weapons)
Now, lets get real...
15 or 20 years ago, the sub was 15 bucks or close (vary from games to other) and today... 15 bucks...
salary did stagnate ? sure servers probably are cheaper to maintain now than before, but all employees, be it developers or people working on servers cost more now than 10, 15 or 20 years ago... So price stagnate, cost rises... Need to explain more ?
Not even need to debate about benefits to point that there is a need to get more income...
I personally would totally prefer a 20 bucks sub, and would be ok to go up to 25... i prefer a game with a subscription, and "all same for everyone" as it was in "the good old days"... But you, the op, could you be ok for such prices to play ?
Most AAA games are $60. Even $80-Mil-to-develop games are going to be $60 or $70, and at most $80 on release.
If their game is good and they retain a playerbase they will make $60 from a person with 4 months of subscription. After 4 months it's more profit than other games provide.
The reason they charged $15 before is simply because they could. They thought they could get that much from players.
What followed after multiple failed expensive projects, after startups tried moving in to compete and grow because of their insane profit margins?
Free to Play. Because you can't ask for $15 in a competitive 2012+ market, and cash shops target bleeding whales specifically.
$15 a month is just fine. The market is more competitive now, inflation is higher, wages are a bit higher overall for lower wealth % across the world and in more-developed nations, and MMO appeal is sketchy. If Ashes of Creation is an amazing AAAA game then sure, $20 works; but who knows at this point.
$19.50 first month, $14.50 next month, $9.50 next 2 months, $7.25 from then on out would probably be a better business decision in the long-run though.
Player retention would increase and that increases the appeal of the MMO, thus having a feedback-loop effect. It's a Civ vs Civ game so having high player count is important.
Lower cost subscription for "developing nations" with a more local server for them would also be a good business decision too. Australia needs its own Server as well so the West Pacifics can get a North Australian server, and East Europe can provide coverage for most of Asia, Europe, and North Africa.
I'm not sure what kind of business and tech-related crime exists in East Europe and Australia so that needs some research into it but it should be fine.
If the product is good then return on investment is not an issue.
Don't buy shit you cant afford then? Exercise some personal responsibility?
All you need to play the game is the base sub cost of 15 dollars a month, expansions are free. No one is forcing you to buy pixels. Let all the whale lords purchase 10 bazillion dollars worth of cosmetics that don't do anything in order to keep the cost of the game low for people like you with no money.
Otherwise youd be paying way more without them.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And i'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
Yet the problem is reality and it cannot be changed without massive repercussions. So you cant really expect things to change. Sorry.
What repercussions lmao.
The cash shop stuff is going to be in the game as something others can simply work for in-game rather than buy [according to another poster in the thread], so the reality has indeed been changed, without repercussions.
I hope it is made more public that these items will be available in-game as something one can work towards (or variants of them).
Comments
Yet the problem is reality and it cannot be changed without massive repercussions. So you cant really expect things to change. Sorry.
What if it's not for profit? What if it's literally just to fund more development and subsidize poor people's sub fees?
Wait, don't you know how much Intrepid Devs 'make'?
Salary offers aren't THAT hard to find.
Anyways, no, Steven does not do this with the intention of profiting in the way you'd normally think of that word.
I bought cosmetics from Path of Exile for no other reason than I got so many hours enjoyment out of the game, I wanted to give something back. I never used them. Buying small capital outlay of some cosmetics my end, did not come close to recompense for the hours of enjoyment I got. Similar with War Thunder. I even bought the expansions to Kingdom Come Deliverance and never used them as I was so impressed with the game.
For ashes, if I see cosmetics I like I may buy, I may not, but if I gain far more enjoyment than I believe the subscriptions costs, I would be happy to support Intrepid and the future development.
As for monthly subscription, well the fact that subs have not really increased much, if at all, in many years I imagine then becomes a numbers game to keep a high player base to be viable to contiue.
Either way, I think both monthly fee at the economical rate they have proposed will mean the game hopefully is not gated from those financially challenged and the cosmetics do bring in enough support keep the margins balanced and the game progressing.
I think they have made the right choice!
FOMO marketing might be considered exploitation, but just having a cash shop for cosmetics is not exploiting your player base.
HEAR, HEAR
It's weird enough that the argument has devolved into: "we need to protect the whales"
but not real ocean whales.
#savethewhales
I know, I am also tired of modern MMO"s having the coolest looking armor behind a paywall. I am ok with some cosmetic things like, different looks for mounts, but it is a slippery slope to go down. I really miss the days when you got the coolest, most stat strong armor pieces, mounts and player housing material from completing quests, completing Dungeons or Raids or getting a certain amount of accomplishment in PvP, like the old Honor system. I do appreciate that Steven already said they will never have convenience items in the shop, like experience boosters. But I also do NOT want the coolest gear to be in the shop only. So believe me, plenty of people share your opinion, and I hope Intrepid sees that and acts accordingly for the future of this product.
Please refer to:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics
Rejoice! Steven frequently explains that in-game achievable items will look as cool or cooler than the cash shop ones, as well as allowing you to equip pieces individually (cash shop sets are all-or-nothing).
FOMO is a weakness of yours which you can easily get over by not wanting to spend all of your money on stuff that doesn't matter. It's not some psychic wizardry forcing you to buy them. Lootboxes and RNG loot/gambling are the thing that get people the most in debt in videogames. Not a company trying to fund its game to be ever better and complete, by releasing cosmetics which will serve to populate the world as well as giving players something nice if they want it.
I've been here for 2 years and I found a great many of the packs to be enticing. I missed some and went "Oh well, no biggie." I bought one, and haven't bought anything else since because they either didn't appeal to me, or I thought: "Eh it's cool, but I don't need to spend x €/$ on this right now".
If you can't resist the temptation to buy it, that's a mental health issue that needs to be checked, and not Intrepid's fault.
Game was ruined with tab target a long time ago not a cash shop.
I think you will still have this opportunity 100%. In my experience, cash shop cosmetics hold no impressive value in the eyes of dedicated players... no one sees someone in cash shop gear and thinks "Oh wow, that must be a very skilled and devoted player!" It's more like, "Oh, he's got money." The truly valuable items are all acquired through gameplay. The rest is pretty inconsequential.
honestly, this is the problem with the world today. the concept of personal responsibility is lost. You should be owed something... its not your fault. the system is set up against you. How is offering something for sale considered "exploiting" people... for real, get a grip... you will be in big trouble if you ever find ebay.com or amazon.com.
if you cant afford it, or if you don't like it. don't buy it. For gods sake, Steven has even said, and I quote, "we don't need your money to finish the game."
We even have people on this forum who have paid 500.00 for a pvx game and then refuse (vocally and repeatedly, and to everyone who will listen) to play because the "x" part leans too heavily to the pvp side, without even having the actual opportunity to play the game, and then have the audacity to pretend to be the victim somehow. Good lord, please let it stop.
Game developers or publishers that charge full price for a game, and then nickle and dime players via cash shop on top of that are a problem. Developers that have any form of gambling that involves real money expenditure are a problem.
Developers that legitimately find their game via cash shops are not the problem. Not at all.
If Ashes had a box cost to it, charged for additional content and charged players a subscription, then we would all be complaining about the game also having a cash shop.
However, they opted to not have a box cost, and also to not charge for additional content. As such, even with a subscription, having a cash shop is perfectly fine. It is perfectly valid to swap one income stream for another, the issue is when it is an addition rather than a swap.
As to FOMO, I have literally never come across anyone that "suffers" from it. As far as I can tell, it is simply a made up term that people with no self control devised.
If it is indeed something you consider you "suffer" from, I would then have to ask you how you handled things like the Bentley Continental GT Speed Brietling Jet Team Series. Only 7 of those were ever made - you didnt miss out on one did you?
If a person has a legitimate issue with missing out on limited time offers, they simply would not be able to function in the modern world. This would be a serious issue, and no doubt there would be an abundance of professional help offered.
This is why I cwnt see people complaining about "FOMO" as anything other than using it as a disguise for some other issue they have with the cash shop (I assume it is the misread above), and misrepresenting it as some issue that people have.
I see no issues with cash shop because it keeps the subscription price down.
The only thing that worries me is (this may have been answered before, i just didn't look for the answer) the possibility of people buying stuff and then selling them to other players for in game currency. If you know the answer to that, please do let me know
Drinking refreshing snowflakes tears
Drinking refreshing snowflakes tears
There was some initial comments with this situation in terms of players wanting to use the same cosmetic on multiple characters, but there being no way to purchase multiple of the same cosmetic. I can see that aspect of it changing at some point (maybe after the game goes live), but they will not allow cosmetics to ever leave the account they were purchased on - not even to swap between family accounts or such.
You cant trade anything purchased in the cash shop. Its bound to your account to stop RMT. Theres also no gifting of cash shop items for this reason.
Again just because you or I do not personally suffer from this type of behavior does not mean it does not exist and it is a huge problem. So... sorry for trying to help people I guess?
And if you think you don't suffer from even the slightest bit of marketing (aka seasonal items, sales, get it now before it doesn't come back for a year) then you are just naive. There is a reason some of the biggest publishers / game studios in the world are EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard. And they are all rife with predatory marketing, cash shops, etc.
I also bring these things up because there used to be a time in games where items used to mean something. There used to be a story behind every bit of gear, every mount, every cosmetic, and weapon. And now thanks to cash shops most everything is now "Oh, I just bought that for $20."
So again sorry if I would prefer my game world to actually mean something again. People say that Steven mentioned that there will be variants of cash shop items in game. Will you be able to distinguish them apart? Hopefully... that would be nice.
Still... Everyone who defends even cosmetic cash shops. Really look at how much you spend a year on a cash shop in a game and compare that to a yearly sub. Chances are you spend way more then a sub. Which is why I am for an increased sub price if it means that there is zero cash shop. Because I would like my game to mean something again, I would like pricing overall to be more fair without manipulating people, and I am for this despite being poor and not even knowing if I could afford a monthly sub at an increased price. But Whenever I could afford it, it would mean much more.
Until people start asking for better than average MMOs we will continue to get average MMOs. And if that comes at an increased price then ok.
Fucking thank you. I was just thinking this when I read your comment.
People are stupid.
Since this forum isn't full of people making this complaint (yet you are by no means to claim that others have this issue, and are "championing their cause" for them), tells me that this just isn't an issue - its just that a few people think it is.
Either that, or these people are trying to use FOMO as an angle to argue against a cash shop that they have no actual inherent complaint against, just a general dislike towards - or a misread of the reason gamers are against microtransactions.
Aren't you too old to be complaining about cosmetic cash shop? So long you can also earn unique stuff in game and no pay to win then who cares. You really crying because you want to look good in game and have people validate you over how your character looks.
Pretty sure it'll be like $700 - $2000 server-price per 10k player capacity lol. Assuming there's a lot of data throughput and calculations per player from action combat or whatever.
If you're trying to make money you want to know the 'consumer', including their opinion/ input.
Why do you think so many corporations collect and sell data on people? Like Discord LMAO
It's in their privacy statement maybe they removed it at this point HA
But yeah they're juicing all the information they can get from people, might as well speak your mind.
Most AAA games are $60. Even $80-Mil-to-develop games are going to be $60 or $70, and at most $80 on release.
If their game is good and they retain a playerbase they will make $60 from a person with 4 months of subscription. After 4 months it's more profit than other games provide.
The reason they charged $15 before is simply because they could. They thought they could get that much from players.
What followed after multiple failed expensive projects, after startups tried moving in to compete and grow because of their insane profit margins?
Free to Play. Because you can't ask for $15 in a competitive 2012+ market, and cash shops target bleeding whales specifically.
$15 a month is just fine. The market is more competitive now, inflation is higher, wages are a bit higher overall for lower wealth % across the world and in more-developed nations, and MMO appeal is sketchy. If Ashes of Creation is an amazing AAAA game then sure, $20 works; but who knows at this point.
$19.50 first month, $14.50 next month, $9.50 next 2 months, $7.25 from then on out would probably be a better business decision in the long-run though.
Player retention would increase and that increases the appeal of the MMO, thus having a feedback-loop effect. It's a Civ vs Civ game so having high player count is important.
Lower cost subscription for "developing nations" with a more local server for them would also be a good business decision too. Australia needs its own Server as well so the West Pacifics can get a North Australian server, and East Europe can provide coverage for most of Asia, Europe, and North Africa.
I'm not sure what kind of business and tech-related crime exists in East Europe and Australia so that needs some research into it but it should be fine.
If the product is good then return on investment is not an issue.
What repercussions lmao.
The cash shop stuff is going to be in the game as something others can simply work for in-game rather than buy [according to another poster in the thread], so the reality has indeed been changed, without repercussions.
I hope it is made more public that these items will be available in-game as something one can work towards (or variants of them).