Until people start asking for better than average MMOs we will continue to get average MMOs. And if that comes at an increased price then ok.
"This sucks, but it's just the way it is, can't change it." ...ever read any history? Start with the Tea Act.
I think what these people actually meant to say is they wont bother trying because of personal laziness, complacency, and yes, shilling. The way consumers make excuses for companies not being better is truly concerning. Especially people who have invested money into this game's development with no release date... you'd think they'd fight for it to be the best it can be, right?
I too have tried to share the idea of a slightly higher sub price instead of an immersion breaking, exploitative cash shop. Even though a cosmetic only cash shop would be far less profitable than a slightly higher sub price of $15, they cannot be convinced.
They refuse to see a potential future of a necessary increased sub price after release and how the negative impact would be much greater than an increased sub price on what was planned during development.
Also, they just don't want to think about the very potential future of an already implemented cash shop's expansion to p2w after Steven (hypothetically, but not unrealistically) sells the game or a decline in subs over time.
From what I gathered, most people on these threads who are especially against this stance are ones who have "invested" and their "reward" for doing so is the promise of cosmetics and they don't want to lose those. You can see that with all their little titles. I even agree that those are fine and to just not have the cash shop on release, but it's been futile.
They have even said to me, "this game just isn't for you," which in a way argues that the whole game is the cash shop and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it if I didn't like that aspect, which they also argue to be "insignificant" at the same time.
They can fund themselves via expansions and the monthly subscription that they are going to charge.
That's not a good answer, @Oreyeon ... I don't see a career for you on the revenue teams of any flagship MMO.
The subscription cost of $15 USD would probably double or more if you exclude the cash shop. There are already forum threads asking for a sub discount based on their country of residence or student status.
DLC/expansions won't cost more than the normal subscription (according to the Wiki). So, you can see where your idea is heading.
Remember that Intrepid is planning in-game cosmetics that are the same or better than the cash shop.
Make sure you check out the forums search feature ... before posting a new thread on a topic that is very much a dead horse.
Did they not make a ton of money through KS and other similar places? I am just now getting into the idea of playing this game and saw the old several million dollar Kickstarter..
Did they not make a ton of money through KS and other similar places? I am just now getting into the idea of playing this game and saw the old several million dollar Kickstarter..
If you type "Ashes of Creation Kickstarter" into Google you can see everything exactly. (Do people not use search Engines?) The KS project raised about $3.3 million. The total project must be around 20x that amount. (I know Steven has mentioned around 50 mil but the extended dev time will cost more)
For ANYONE that wants to hold up AoC cash shop and defend their practice of withholding items from people because "insert any ridiculous idea you have here" then consider this;
1) Steven has multiple times already assured everyone that this game is funded to completion. WTF does that mean to you? It either is or isn't funded to completion and he has REPEATEDLY stated it is, even recently. That means he doesn't need your money. So get off the "head in the sand" bandwagon and look at things for what they are. Every time you say they need money for "insert any ridiculous idea you have here" just remember THEY ALREADY HAVE IT.
2) Another smooth brain argument is "he's trying to lower the barrier to entry". REALLY? You really believe that crap? The entry to a game is typically $60 (USD) BUT that was for the physical box copy. Box cost was to cover the disk, book, actual cardboard box, wrapping, shipping, storage, printing, etc. It all adds up but that cost wont exist with this game. So what cost did you think was being lowered? What barrier is there? It is literally just $15 to enter this game because there is nothing to charge for.
3) If (when) AoC becomes very profitable, say 1 million concurrent subs a month, will you still be onboard with a cosmetics shop or will you stand with the people that say we pay full price for the game so everything should be IN the game? My guess is you will find a new ant hill to die on.
Throwing away money. I really wonder about the IQ of people who think it's a great idea to buy something and then intentionally pay more for things that should have been included to begin with AND justify it to themselves that the person charging them needs their help. Why? Also why do people champion the cause of paying more in general? Why do you do that? Because you are a trained lemming. Plain and simple. By engaging in this zombie farming behavior it perpetuates more monetization in games and more and more companies get on board because they see how many lemmings are willing to fork over extra money for minimal effort. You guys do you and I'll keep laughing at the fool and his money.....
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
They can fund themselves via expansions and the monthly subscription that they are going to charge.
That's not a good answer, @Oreyeon ... I don't see a career for you on the revenue teams of any flagship MMO.
The subscription cost of $15 USD would probably double or more if you exclude the cash shop. There are already forum threads asking for a sub discount based on their country of residence or student status.
DLC/expansions won't cost more than the normal subscription (according to the Wiki). So, you can see where your idea is heading.
Remember that Intrepid is planning in-game cosmetics that are the same or better than the cash shop.
Make sure you check out the forums search feature ... before posting a new thread on a topic that is very much a dead horse.
Did they not make a ton of money through KS and other similar places? I am just now getting into the idea of playing this game and saw the old several million dollar Kickstarter..
4 million dollars doesn't fund multi-year development on a game with over 100 staff (steven had to pour more money into the development when he realised he'd greatly underestimated how long it would take and his own prior contribution proved inadequate). Nor does it cover ongoing maintenance costs, the expansion of those staff for live service and ingame customer support and it doesn't fund future development.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Until people start asking for better than average MMOs we will continue to get average MMOs. And if that comes at an increased price then ok.
"This sucks, but it's just the way it is, can't change it." ...ever read any history? Start with the Tea Act.
I think what these people actually meant to say is they wont bother trying because of personal laziness, complacency, and yes, shilling. The way consumers make excuses for companies not being better is truly concerning. Especially people who have invested money into this game's development with no release date... you'd think they'd fight for it to be the best it can be, right?
I too have tried to share the idea of a slightly higher sub price instead of an immersion breaking, exploitative cash shop. Even though a cosmetic only cash shop would be far less profitable than a slightly higher sub price of $15, they cannot be convinced.
They refuse to see a potential future of a necessary increased sub price after release and how the negative impact would be much greater than an increased sub price on what was planned during development.
Also, they just don't want to think about the very potential future of an already implemented cash shop's expansion to p2w after Steven (hypothetically, but not unrealistically) sells the game or a decline in subs over time.
From what I gathered, most people on these threads who are especially against this stance are ones who have "invested" and their "reward" for doing so is the promise of cosmetics and they don't want to lose those. You can see that with all their little titles. I even agree that those are fine and to just not have the cash shop on release, but it's been futile.
They have even said to me, "this game just isn't for you," which in a way argues that the whole game is the cash shop and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it if I didn't like that aspect, which they also argue to be "insignificant" at the same time.
So how many people will pay the increased sub fee and box cost you suggest when it's the highest mmo price on the market?
3) If (when) AoC becomes very profitable, say 1 million concurrent subs a month, will you still be onboard with a cosmetics shop or will you stand with the people that say we pay full price for the game so everything should be IN the game? My guess is you will find a new ant hill to die on.
Highly doubt it'll keep that 1mil, but even if it does - I would still not give a single fuck about sellable cosmetics
So how many people will pay the increased sub fee and box cost you suggest when it's the highest mmo price on the market?
Sure it might be the highest price (by a few dollars), but it wont have a box cost, it wont have expansion prices, it will in this hypothetical not have a cash shop, and will be in other ways one of the best mmos to be released... so probably a lot of people. There were a lot of people paying hundreds to play the alpha so, do you have any data to say they wouldn't? I don't know of an mmo releasing for a few dollars more and not having players. I know that there are mmos that had to raise the price later and that was really bad, which is what I addressed previously. Also, there is a lot of data to show people happily pay more for quality things.
So how many people will pay the increased sub fee and box cost you suggest when it's the highest mmo price on the market?
Sure it might be the highest price (by a few dollars), but it wont have a box cost, it wont have expansion prices, it will in this hypothetical not have a cash shop, and will be in other ways one of the best mmos to be released... so probably a lot of people. There were a lot of people paying hundreds to play the alpha so, do you have any data to say they wouldn't? I don't know of an mmo releasing for a few dollars more and not having players. I know that there are mmos that had to raise the price later and that was really bad, which is what I addressed previously. Also, there is a lot of data to show people happily pay more for quality things.
You could just consider your monthly cost at 30$ and buy a outfit a month, and there you go.The rest of us can pay the 15$
Comments
I found it funny when they released guardian, and the grunil armour pretty much looked like the paid outfit cause of their lazy development lmao.
"This sucks, but it's just the way it is, can't change it." ...ever read any history? Start with the Tea Act.
I think what these people actually meant to say is they wont bother trying because of personal laziness, complacency, and yes, shilling. The way consumers make excuses for companies not being better is truly concerning. Especially people who have invested money into this game's development with no release date... you'd think they'd fight for it to be the best it can be, right?
I too have tried to share the idea of a slightly higher sub price instead of an immersion breaking, exploitative cash shop. Even though a cosmetic only cash shop would be far less profitable than a slightly higher sub price of $15, they cannot be convinced.
They refuse to see a potential future of a necessary increased sub price after release and how the negative impact would be much greater than an increased sub price on what was planned during development.
Also, they just don't want to think about the very potential future of an already implemented cash shop's expansion to p2w after Steven (hypothetically, but not unrealistically) sells the game or a decline in subs over time.
From what I gathered, most people on these threads who are especially against this stance are ones who have "invested" and their "reward" for doing so is the promise of cosmetics and they don't want to lose those. You can see that with all their little titles. I even agree that those are fine and to just not have the cash shop on release, but it's been futile.
They have even said to me, "this game just isn't for you," which in a way argues that the whole game is the cash shop and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it if I didn't like that aspect, which they also argue to be "insignificant" at the same time.
Did they not make a ton of money through KS and other similar places? I am just now getting into the idea of playing this game and saw the old several million dollar Kickstarter..
If you type "Ashes of Creation Kickstarter" into Google you can see everything exactly. (Do people not use search Engines?) The KS project raised about $3.3 million. The total project must be around 20x that amount. (I know Steven has mentioned around 50 mil but the extended dev time will cost more)
1) Steven has multiple times already assured everyone that this game is funded to completion. WTF does that mean to you? It either is or isn't funded to completion and he has REPEATEDLY stated it is, even recently. That means he doesn't need your money. So get off the "head in the sand" bandwagon and look at things for what they are. Every time you say they need money for "insert any ridiculous idea you have here" just remember THEY ALREADY HAVE IT.
2) Another smooth brain argument is "he's trying to lower the barrier to entry". REALLY? You really believe that crap? The entry to a game is typically $60 (USD) BUT that was for the physical box copy. Box cost was to cover the disk, book, actual cardboard box, wrapping, shipping, storage, printing, etc. It all adds up but that cost wont exist with this game. So what cost did you think was being lowered? What barrier is there? It is literally just $15 to enter this game because there is nothing to charge for.
3) If (when) AoC becomes very profitable, say 1 million concurrent subs a month, will you still be onboard with a cosmetics shop or will you stand with the people that say we pay full price for the game so everything should be IN the game? My guess is you will find a new ant hill to die on.
Throwing away money. I really wonder about the IQ of people who think it's a great idea to buy something and then intentionally pay more for things that should have been included to begin with AND justify it to themselves that the person charging them needs their help. Why? Also why do people champion the cause of paying more in general? Why do you do that? Because you are a trained lemming. Plain and simple. By engaging in this zombie farming behavior it perpetuates more monetization in games and more and more companies get on board because they see how many lemmings are willing to fork over extra money for minimal effort. You guys do you and I'll keep laughing at the fool and his money.....
4 million dollars doesn't fund multi-year development on a game with over 100 staff (steven had to pour more money into the development when he realised he'd greatly underestimated how long it would take and his own prior contribution proved inadequate). Nor does it cover ongoing maintenance costs, the expansion of those staff for live service and ingame customer support and it doesn't fund future development.
So how many people will pay the increased sub fee and box cost you suggest when it's the highest mmo price on the market?
Sure it might be the highest price (by a few dollars), but it wont have a box cost, it wont have expansion prices, it will in this hypothetical not have a cash shop, and will be in other ways one of the best mmos to be released... so probably a lot of people. There were a lot of people paying hundreds to play the alpha so, do you have any data to say they wouldn't? I don't know of an mmo releasing for a few dollars more and not having players. I know that there are mmos that had to raise the price later and that was really bad, which is what I addressed previously. Also, there is a lot of data to show people happily pay more for quality things.
You could just consider your monthly cost at 30$ and buy a outfit a month, and there you go.The rest of us can pay the 15$