Tab target is just sad

It looked similar to the old ranger video I saw years ago. People play WoW for its nostalgia not for its combat and ashes will not have any nostalgia to benefit from.

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Serithis

Both combat styles are good.

Foni wrote: »

It looked similar to the old ranger video I saw years ago. People play WoW for its nostalgia not for its combat and ashes will not have any nostalgia to benefit from.

WoW had one of the best tab targeting systems out there. Games like ESO and GW2 have tried to have a mish-mash between tab targeting and action combat and failed, feeling a lot more floaty and unimpactful.

On the other hand, a game like black desert online or blade&soul that did action combat fairly well which was really fun but also became a chore to play a lot quicker because of how much combo spamming you had to do just to commit to the every day grind and farm. It's very taxing after a while. WoW you can sort of go hard or chill out and still get by fairly well unless you're trying to be more hardcore for any PVP/PVE instance.

Just because it's an old system, does not make it terrible. I also hate my character being locked to a reticule as it was in ESO or TERA.

Selo

If theres anything people play WoW for its for its fluent tab target combat that the masses are able to play at decent level while skilled players can still excel at it
Noone likes getting 1 shot headshot by players over and over.

Dummo

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

If you want to aim, you can aim. What's the problem?

It's still tab targeting, really. People act like the action camera is action combat.

Edit: The reticle camera mode is not tab target, it's softlock aiming. Still not the action combat how people describe it though. Personally I like the direction Ashes is going with the hybrid combat.

WHIT3ROS3

Dummo wrote: »

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

If you want to aim, you can aim. What's the problem?

It's still tab targeting, really. I don't necessarily dislike tab targeting, but people act like the action camera is action combat.

It's really not though. I think it is great from a gameplay POV to have the ability to switch over between Tab targeting and a type of action combat. I think the feel of gameplay and how it will cater to those different playstyles is going above and beyond to cater to players IMO. Both the Tab and Action elements looked smooth and responsive.

I do think that having a small crit spot on creatures that can only be hit through Action combat would elevate a lot of the moaning from the FPS crowd (Who I don't think will stick around regardless as there will always be better full FPS games for that type of gameplay)

I also think it will be important to try and integrate Action combat abilities in others ways. Hitting switches and levers in dungeons, aiming at certain targets through quests. From the limited amount we have see, won't all siege weapons also be action combat?

Dummo

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Dummo wrote: »

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

If you want to aim, you can aim. What's the problem?

It's still tab targeting, really. I don't necessarily dislike tab targeting, but people act like the action camera is action combat.

It's really not though. I think it is great from a gameplay POV to have the ability to switch over between Tab targeting and a type of action combat. I think the feel of gameplay and how it will cater to those different playstyles is going above and beyond to cater to players IMO. Both the Tab and Action elements looked smooth and responsive.

It is tab targeting, but with an action camera - since it's not actually aiming, it has a softlock.

Edit: The reticle camera mode is not tab target, the softlock aiming is indeed a type of action combat. Personally I like the direction Ashes is going with the hybrid combat.

Ludullu

Dummo wrote: »

It is tab targeting, but with an action camera - since it's not actually aiming, it has a lock.

Yet Steven said that people can run into arrows that were loosened in action mode. Wouldn't that mean that it's action?

Dummo

NiKr wrote: »

Dummo wrote: »

It is tab targeting, but with an action camera - since it's not actually aiming, it has a lock.

Yet Steven said that people can run into arrows that were loosened in action mode. Wouldn't that mean that it's action?

If that is what he said, I assume that he meant in the area that the arrow is going. Just like you don't have to precisely aim at the target for the arrow to hit. And if not, I don't see that happening often, since you'll be aiming somewhat near someone if your intention is to hit that person - and if that is the case, the lock will make your arrow hit the target anyway.

But I'm not hating on the direction they're going, just saying it's not really action combat.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Dummo wrote: »

It is tab targeting, but with an action camera - since it's not actually aiming, it has a lock.

Yet Steven said that people can run into arrows that were loosened in action mode. Wouldn't that mean that it's action?

Was impressed when i heard that, will add more complexity to fights if it works well like that and help balance out the ranger class while involving more strategy in wars / fights.

Ludullu

Dummo wrote: »

If that is what he said, I assume that he meant in the area that the arrow is going. Just like you don't have to precisely aim at the target for the arrow to hit. And if not, I don't see that happening often, since you'll be aiming somewhat near someone if your intention is to hit that person - and if that is the case, the lock will make your arrow hit the target anyway.

How is that different from any action combat projectiles though? You literally just shoot in some direction and if another player happens to then move into the way of your projectile he gets hit.

Now there's a chance Steven misspoke, but that'd be one hell of a misspeak so I don't think he did. And if arrows are projectile I'd hope/assume that magic missiles are too. At which point you have yourself an action range combat.

I'd assume that if you aim at a crowd of people the soft lock will in fact just make your attacks hit one target, but if you're on top of a wall during a siege with a group of archers and yall are just unloading onto the ground before the gates, anyone who steps into that line of fire should be hit with those arrows even though they were loosened w/o a lock on. To me that sounds like as much of an action combat mechanic as anything can be.

AidanKD

Just chiming in to say, there is a massive market people who plenty enjoy tab targeting. I.e. lets say...all players in WoW, FF14 and I guess the partial-tab in Gw2. Combine the three and don't you have essentially most of the MMO market?

Then you have BDO (which is respectively successful) and new world. Respect New World, it's now got its concurrent player base rocking around 45k players lets see if it can grow on that - and I don't know if there are reliable stats on BDO's playerbase but lets just assume it's doing okay. I still think that the current audience of actively-action-playing players are smaller than tab.

It's not to say that there aren't action players waiting for a good action MMO to come out, but you'd be pulling figures out of thin air to assume it outweighs the tab players.

--

if you hopped into any of these tab games i.e. WoW and jumped into the arena, you would have to put in a lot of work to challenge for any worthy accolades - akin to any action game as well. Tab doesn't have the requirement for mechanical aim, but if you watch professional WoW players and track their APM, it's no afk simulator by any means.

Everyone's entitled to their own taste - but intrepid has sold hybrid and so I am dead curious what they can do to have them coexist, if they will get action closer to what the action crowd want, then what I am more interested in how they will balance the two - the true challenge.

Dummo

NiKr wrote: »

Dummo wrote: »

If that is what he said, I assume that he meant in the area that the arrow is going. Just like you don't have to precisely aim at the target for the arrow to hit. And if not, I don't see that happening often, since you'll be aiming somewhat near someone if your intention is to hit that person - and if that is the case, the lock will make your arrow hit the target anyway.

How is that different from any action combat projectiles though? You literally just shoot in some direction and if another player happens to then move into the way of your projectile he gets hit.

Now there's a chance Steven misspoke, but that'd be one hell of a misspeak so I don't think he did. And if arrows are projectile I'd hope/assume that magic missiles are too. At which point you have yourself an action range combat.

I'd assume that if you aim at a crowd of people the soft lock will in fact just make your attacks hit one target, but if you're on top of a wall during a siege with a group of archers and yall are just unloading onto the ground before the gates, anyone who steps into that line of fire should be hit with those arrows even though they were loosened w/o a lock on. To me that sounds like as much of an action combat mechanic as anything can be.

The fact that it's not actual skilled aiming makes it not, atleast not fully, action combat. But yes, being able to shoot randomly and people walking into the shot is a part of action combat.

Gaf

Look into this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypB_gemG_JQ

Balrog21

If you want that play style, you're more than welcome to go play that glorified Street Fighter game called BDO.

Voxtrium

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I still can't wrap my head around how they are going to pull it off to be perfectly honest. 6 different stages of Node development with 9 different potential racial outcomes for each of the stages. and we haven't even seen the full development of one...

Racial traits will change the skins of buildings, but is not like they are introducing a entirely new city per node per race.

Azherae

I think we can pivot this thread to something useful if y'all don't mind, because looking at Ranger doesn't show us the 'problem' most people will have, it shows us the 'wrong side'.

The issue here is "Tab Target Gap Closers" and how they work exactly. I think that IF we wanted to discuss a situation where something is affected by a player's skill, it would be those, not some Ranger Basic.

IF a player can Tab Target another, hit a gap closer, and the game autocorrects their target position to wherever the target is when the skill actually goes off, or changes their trajectory as the opponent moves, this is massively different 'skill wise' than not having this option because it entirely changes 'the way in which you dodge these'.

And then we have to question 'does the gap closer effectively turn the user's body into a projectile'?

I think I would have to side with those who say 'This absolutely isn't Action Combat' if there are Tab-Target Gap closers. Now, I don't actually care about this much, but if I had to define 'is a game Action Combat or Tab Target' I would be checking the gap closer skills first.

Mezcon

Foni wrote: »

It looked similar to the old ranger video I saw years ago. People play WoW for its nostalgia not for its combat and ashes will not have any nostalgia to benefit from.

A lot of the abilities are going to be action target based. So I am sorry you got the idea that everything is going to be tab target only like the older games. Its going to be a hybrid.

ItsmeToki

Foni wrote: »

It looked similar to the old ranger video I saw years ago. People play WoW for its nostalgia not for its combat and ashes will not have any nostalgia to benefit from.

False. Thats a false statement. Do some research, than come back and correct your statement

Ppl enjoy wow because of its nostalgia, right BUT the nostalgia comes partly because of its responsive and fluent combat system.
Because the game overall was and still is so much better than anything else that existed/exists.

Magic Man

Well it is sad and a thing of the past. But that doesn't mean there is no market for it. People play FFXIV and WoW and most of them are generally fine with it. As you can also see from the snarky boomers people from this post, it is the type of combat many MMORPGers are used to and they'll defend it. Now that doesn't mean that action combat has no place in the upcoming MMOs, including Ashes. We'll just have to wait and see.

ItsmeToki

Magic Man wrote: »

Well it is sad and a thing of the past. But that doesn't mean there is no market for it. People play FFXIV and WoW and most of them are generally fine with it. As you can also see from the snarky boomers people from this post, it is the type of combat many MMORPGers are used to and they'll defend it. Now that doesn't mean that action combat has no place in the upcoming MMOs, including Ashes. We'll just have to wait and see.

Like the younger generation only is used to fps fortnite gameplay. Maybe they should take on new challenges instead of bad talking everthing that is unknown to them. Where do you think this mentality will lead them to in life...?

Nothing against trying out new things. Action combat had its chances in MMOs like New World showcased. It failed. So maybe the MMO market needs something that actually works.

beretta7

Foni wrote: »

It looked similar to the old ranger video I saw years ago. People play WoW for its nostalgia not for its combat and ashes will not have any nostalgia to benefit from.

It's actually really sad. I think this game has will be breakthrough on nearly every system, but they failed on combat. You can't release a game with tab target and assume it's going to be long term successful. You need skill in these games now. We need head shot mechanics especially in pvp. Without it the combat will get stale and so will the game.

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