Azherae wrote: » worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful. I'm not arguing that it isn't useful, I'm arguing that it won't be as impactful as you're making it out to be. Yes, the people who have more time on their hands will gather more resources than those who don't have the time for it. Alternatively the people with time could just make money and buy the same resources, cause farming them directly might take more time than making money to buy them. Yeah that was my point. I'm talking about the people who do have time. Why force them to use alts when you could just make it harder for them to do it on one character. If the argument is that it should be harder or a bigger time investment why not just do that for a single character. Instead of 500hrs on two characters why not 1000hrs on one character. Because of the power of incidental activity. Task switching, character switching, inability to 'just suddenly grab something when you see it', they all matter. So IF a player is not ON their Master Mining character and happen to come across something great, they have to log in, bring that character all the way there, etc. If they see someone in Node asking for a sword made, that they could make, or another could make, and their Weaponsmith Alt is somewhere else, someone else gets that sale first. This additional cost in time and focus is what tilts the balance for a lot of people, and therefore is a decent deterrent.
worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful. I'm not arguing that it isn't useful, I'm arguing that it won't be as impactful as you're making it out to be. Yes, the people who have more time on their hands will gather more resources than those who don't have the time for it. Alternatively the people with time could just make money and buy the same resources, cause farming them directly might take more time than making money to buy them. Yeah that was my point. I'm talking about the people who do have time. Why force them to use alts when you could just make it harder for them to do it on one character. If the argument is that it should be harder or a bigger time investment why not just do that for a single character. Instead of 500hrs on two characters why not 1000hrs on one character.
NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful. I'm not arguing that it isn't useful, I'm arguing that it won't be as impactful as you're making it out to be. Yes, the people who have more time on their hands will gather more resources than those who don't have the time for it. Alternatively the people with time could just make money and buy the same resources, cause farming them directly might take more time than making money to buy them.
worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful. I'm not arguing that it isn't useful, I'm arguing that it won't be as impactful as you're making it out to be. Yes, the people who have more time on their hands will gather more resources than those who don't have the time for it. Alternatively the people with time could just make money and buy the same resources, cause farming them directly might take more time than making money to buy them. Yeah that was my point. I'm talking about the people who do have time. Why force them to use alts when you could just make it harder for them to do it on one character. If the argument is that it should be harder or a bigger time investment why not just do that for a single character. Instead of 500hrs on two characters why not 1000hrs on one character. Because of the power of incidental activity. Task switching, character switching, inability to 'just suddenly grab something when you see it', they all matter. So IF a player is not ON their Master Mining character and happen to come across something great, they have to log in, bring that character all the way there, etc. If they see someone in Node asking for a sword made, that they could make, or another could make, and their Weaponsmith Alt is somewhere else, someone else gets that sale first. This additional cost in time and focus is what tilts the balance for a lot of people, and therefore is a decent deterrent. if everybody can make everything, why would someone asks you or someone else to craft the sword then? because any1 can make it...probably only because their skill level is not enough, in which case, they would ask a guildie and wouldnt have to pay the crafting fee..maybe just a tip. if everybody can make everything, then you see too many items on the market, more supply than demand, and the items lose value, everybody would start undercutting each other. why would you buy my iron ore for 1 gold if the guy next to me is selling it for 0.99? etc etc so its harder to make money but the price of the gear stays the same or increases since they are more rare. this also helps new players catch up. if people can only contribute with 1 thing, they become more valuable since not everybody can supply that, less supply but same demand. sorry its inconvenient that you cant mine something if you are a hunter...just hunt then and do leatherworking stop chasing shinies haha. if everybody could do everything, then the material sink would need to be ridiculous to keep people buying stuff.
Azherae wrote: » 2 Characters per Server. That's it.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » 2 Characters per Server. That's it. F that! Ironman mode servers! (but with trading) Though I feel like we'd see way more of "having accounts is p2w" posts
Voxtrium wrote: » I would actually rather see account bound profession mastery locks. Without it the people who can play 20 hours a day have a much larger advantage, not because they are grinding the loot better/harder but because they can do things other players CAN'T do. Already alts will provide some potentially significant advantages, best to limit those as much as possible imo.
pyreal wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay. Totally agree. Restrictions of any kind are just anti-good. Its not fair that I can't be a Master Gatherer, Master Processor, and a Master Craftsman, let alone a Master Carpenter and a Master Tailor! Whom shall make the gingham tablecloths just so for my trellis tables and half top wall table?!
NiKr wrote: » I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay.
Strevi wrote: » pyreal wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay. Totally agree. Restrictions of any kind are just anti-good. Its not fair that I can't be a Master Gatherer, Master Processor, and a Master Craftsman, let alone a Master Carpenter and a Master Tailor! Whom shall make the gingham tablecloths just so for my trellis tables and half top wall table?! Players must depend on each-other. Creating alts for the purpose to be self sufficient defeats the intention of the game to bring players together. Not only danger, need to defeat bosses or defend against PvPers should make players stick together but also the production chain. Having 10 alts who can produce everything helps those who want to avoid cooperating with other players and say "please help" or "thank you for helping me". Alternatively, if you kill a gatherer, you get no services from him anymore Your alts should not help you out.
Craiken wrote: » I think it's fine to restrict a character to a single artisan class. Yes, you could level up alts and invest the time required to give them synergistic crafting abilities. But wouldn't it be faster and more fun to make friends with people who already have synergistic crafting abilities? I think Steven's game design is intended to encourage the second option.
worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » 2 Characters per Server. That's it. F that! Ironman mode servers! (but with trading) Though I feel like we'd see way more of "having accounts is p2w" posts Strevi wrote: » pyreal wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I'd personally love to see the NW approach. Just let everyone do everything. I'm sure that would in no way impact the planned economy or gameplay. Totally agree. Restrictions of any kind are just anti-good. Its not fair that I can't be a Master Gatherer, Master Processor, and a Master Craftsman, let alone a Master Carpenter and a Master Tailor! Whom shall make the gingham tablecloths just so for my trellis tables and half top wall table?! Players must depend on each-other. Creating alts for the purpose to be self sufficient defeats the intention of the game to bring players together. Not only danger, need to defeat bosses or defend against PvPers should make players stick together but also the production chain. Having 10 alts who can produce everything helps those who want to avoid cooperating with other players and say "please help" or "thank you for helping me". Alternatively, if you kill a gatherer, you get no services from him anymore Your alts should not help you out. But the game lets you make alts that can do that. So people will do it. That's all I'm saying.
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful. I'm not arguing that it isn't useful, I'm arguing that it won't be as impactful as you're making it out to be. Yes, the people who have more time on their hands will gather more resources than those who don't have the time for it. Alternatively the people with time could just make money and buy the same resources, cause farming them directly might take more time than making money to buy them. Yeah that was my point. I'm talking about the people who do have time. Why force them to use alts when you could just make it harder for them to do it on one character. If the argument is that it should be harder or a bigger time investment why not just do that for a single character. Instead of 500hrs on two characters why not 1000hrs on one character. Because of the power of incidental activity. Task switching, character switching, inability to 'just suddenly grab something when you see it', they all matter. So IF a player is not ON their Master Mining character and happen to come across something great, they have to log in, bring that character all the way there, etc. If they see someone in Node asking for a sword made, that they could make, or another could make, and their Weaponsmith Alt is somewhere else, someone else gets that sale first. This additional cost in time and focus is what tilts the balance for a lot of people, and therefore is a decent deterrent. if everybody can make everything, why would someone asks you or someone else to craft the sword then? because any1 can make it...probably only because their skill level is not enough, in which case, they would ask a guildie and wouldnt have to pay the crafting fee..maybe just a tip. if everybody can make everything, then you see too many items on the market, more supply than demand, and the items lose value, everybody would start undercutting each other. why would you buy my iron ore for 1 gold if the guy next to me is selling it for 0.99? etc etc so its harder to make money but the price of the gear stays the same or increases since they are more rare. this also helps new players catch up. if people can only contribute with 1 thing, they become more valuable since not everybody can supply that, less supply but same demand. sorry its inconvenient that you cant mine something if you are a hunter...just hunt then and do leatherworking stop chasing shinies haha. if everybody could do everything, then the material sink would need to be ridiculous to keep people buying stuff. Oh, to be clear, I have a really simple wish for Ashes, I don't think they will do it, but I hope they do. 2 Characters per Server. That's it.
Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful. I'm not arguing that it isn't useful, I'm arguing that it won't be as impactful as you're making it out to be. Yes, the people who have more time on their hands will gather more resources than those who don't have the time for it. Alternatively the people with time could just make money and buy the same resources, cause farming them directly might take more time than making money to buy them. Yeah that was my point. I'm talking about the people who do have time. Why force them to use alts when you could just make it harder for them to do it on one character. If the argument is that it should be harder or a bigger time investment why not just do that for a single character. Instead of 500hrs on two characters why not 1000hrs on one character. Because of the power of incidental activity. Task switching, character switching, inability to 'just suddenly grab something when you see it', they all matter. So IF a player is not ON their Master Mining character and happen to come across something great, they have to log in, bring that character all the way there, etc. If they see someone in Node asking for a sword made, that they could make, or another could make, and their Weaponsmith Alt is somewhere else, someone else gets that sale first. This additional cost in time and focus is what tilts the balance for a lot of people, and therefore is a decent deterrent. if everybody can make everything, why would someone asks you or someone else to craft the sword then? because any1 can make it...probably only because their skill level is not enough, in which case, they would ask a guildie and wouldnt have to pay the crafting fee..maybe just a tip. if everybody can make everything, then you see too many items on the market, more supply than demand, and the items lose value, everybody would start undercutting each other. why would you buy my iron ore for 1 gold if the guy next to me is selling it for 0.99? etc etc so its harder to make money but the price of the gear stays the same or increases since they are more rare. this also helps new players catch up. if people can only contribute with 1 thing, they become more valuable since not everybody can supply that, less supply but same demand. sorry its inconvenient that you cant mine something if you are a hunter...just hunt then and do leatherworking stop chasing shinies haha. if everybody could do everything, then the material sink would need to be ridiculous to keep people buying stuff. Oh, to be clear, I have a really simple wish for Ashes, I don't think they will do it, but I hope they do. 2 Characters per Server. That's it. yeah that would be nice too. or your artisan skills are account wide, so if you are a miner, all your alts are miners until you reset and pick somethign else
SongRune wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Azherae wrote: » worddog wrote: » NiKr wrote: » worddog wrote: » They said themselves lower tier resources are used in higher tier crafting. And the game would have to basically be a barren wasteland to prevent those from being farmed by guilds. Idk how you can even argue that having more people doing something isn't useful. I'm not arguing that it isn't useful, I'm arguing that it won't be as impactful as you're making it out to be. Yes, the people who have more time on their hands will gather more resources than those who don't have the time for it. Alternatively the people with time could just make money and buy the same resources, cause farming them directly might take more time than making money to buy them. Yeah that was my point. I'm talking about the people who do have time. Why force them to use alts when you could just make it harder for them to do it on one character. If the argument is that it should be harder or a bigger time investment why not just do that for a single character. Instead of 500hrs on two characters why not 1000hrs on one character. Because of the power of incidental activity. Task switching, character switching, inability to 'just suddenly grab something when you see it', they all matter. So IF a player is not ON their Master Mining character and happen to come across something great, they have to log in, bring that character all the way there, etc. If they see someone in Node asking for a sword made, that they could make, or another could make, and their Weaponsmith Alt is somewhere else, someone else gets that sale first. This additional cost in time and focus is what tilts the balance for a lot of people, and therefore is a decent deterrent. if everybody can make everything, why would someone asks you or someone else to craft the sword then? because any1 can make it...probably only because their skill level is not enough, in which case, they would ask a guildie and wouldnt have to pay the crafting fee..maybe just a tip. if everybody can make everything, then you see too many items on the market, more supply than demand, and the items lose value, everybody would start undercutting each other. why would you buy my iron ore for 1 gold if the guy next to me is selling it for 0.99? etc etc so its harder to make money but the price of the gear stays the same or increases since they are more rare. this also helps new players catch up. if people can only contribute with 1 thing, they become more valuable since not everybody can supply that, less supply but same demand. sorry its inconvenient that you cant mine something if you are a hunter...just hunt then and do leatherworking stop chasing shinies haha. if everybody could do everything, then the material sink would need to be ridiculous to keep people buying stuff. Oh, to be clear, I have a really simple wish for Ashes, I don't think they will do it, but I hope they do. 2 Characters per Server. That's it. yeah that would be nice too. or your artisan skills are account wide, so if you are a miner, all your alts are miners until you reset and pick somethign else Ew. Don't make alts "all the same person". They have different lives and different skillsets. What even is the point of alternate characters without that? Is "all your alts are Cleric because your main is" next?
Zaro wrote: » Anyways, totally against this... I have to milk you master armorers with my master metalworker, so I can pay the master miners, and then we both can affort buy the armors you make.
Zaro wrote: » Is it really forced? Have they stated that you have to be master miner to mine some materials, or can you get them, mayby less or less often, with just one level below master miner?
Summpwner wrote: » Zaro wrote: » Is it really forced? Have they stated that you have to be master miner to mine some materials, or can you get them, mayby less or less often, with just one level below master miner? They have specifically described a system where you start the game with the ability to try all artisanships. It is likely that new players will be able to gather everything in the early node stages at a low overall level. The decision is made LATER on what to focus on.
