I don't care for transmog. And i the minority? Where do you stand on it?

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

I guess there's the case of someone liking a low lvl item visual instead of literally all high lvl items, but I dunno how many people would be that way.

Even before transmogs - my main in EQ2 was a Ratonga in starting rags who could only increase armor stats from her weapon and the Jewelry crafted by her Kerran master.
In an RPG, RP is the most important part of the game.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

Even before transmogs - my main in EQ2 was a Ratonga in starting rags who could only increase armor stats from her weapon and the Jewelry crafted by her Kerran master.
In an RPG, RP is the most important part of the game.

While that is true, Ashes also has a ton of pvp in it and in pvp those transmogs stand in the way of both you and your opponent knowing each other's power before the fight even starts.

I'd be totally fine if any pvp event (or system) automatically showed the true gear of the participant. So if I'm out and about and see a dude from a warring guild - I'd see his real gear. I feel like this would be a great compromise, though I dunno if this is doable tech-wise.

Songcaller

The community voted to keep Armour Tabs for players and also voted to remove Armour Tabs for PvE Mobs. I feel it was a weird disposition of wanting toughness in PvE and easy mode in PvP. However, the community spoke and the devs obliged.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

The community voted to keep Armour Tabs for players and also voted to remove Armour Tabs for PvE Mobs. I feel it was a weird disposition of wanting toughness in PvE and easy mode in PvP. However, the community spoke and the devs obliged.

Unless Intrepid goes the way of the NW or does something directly opposite and designs smth that I don't think I've ever heard of in mmos - mobs won't just change their powerlvl out of the blue. But people will. Back in L2 I'd fight with the same people across the entire character progression from low lvls to the high ones. And when I saw my opponent wearing some new piece of gear I knew the fight would be harder, but I also got the desire to catch up to them faster.

With mobs, you'll just fight a mob once and will know his power (or at least an estimation). And that power won't randomly grow or change throughout your gameplay. Now there's the example of NW where you could see the same mob model but its lvl would be completely different, because Amazon couldn't give their devs enough time to switch to a more pve-oriented game. And there's the opposite example where mobs would in fact "grow" and change in power (outside of the weather effects or stuff like that), but I don't think I've heard an mmo do that, if anyone has pls do give that example.

But what I'm trying to say is that it's the same lvl of difficulty. You'll fight a mob and will know its power for the next fight, which to me sounds easy as hell. But even if you fight a person once, there's no certainty that your next fight wouldn't be differently matched because their power changed, at which point knowing their new power is the same as you knowing the power of the mob after your first encounter.

And if we're talking purely about first encounters, outside of the story-based instanced content, I'm not sure if there's gonna be a single boss/mob that you won't have to fight more than once, so while the wonder of world exploration is a valuable thing for an mmo to have - it's a one-time trick, while pvp is a continuous process throughout your entire character's life.

Songcaller

The armour tag literally counter acts any discontent with cosmetics or transmogs because a player can't hide the gear levels.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

The armour tag literally counter acts any discontent with cosmetics or transmogs because a player can't hide the gear levels.

But it would only do that at sight-reading lvl if we can put it directly on a target's name instead of having to target them to see it.

Songcaller

Well, I'm against it in all forms. The form it takes has little effect on my request for the dev decisions.

TyranthraxusEQ

From a roleplay perspective, can you give me any reason you should be able tell the gear score of a potential opponent? You can already see level and guild, and know reputation if you play alot and they have one. Why should you be able to tell if they choose to conceal carry so to speak? Risk, is important is it not?

Ludullu

TyranthraxusEQ wrote: »

Risk, is important is it not?

It's about gambling vs measured risk. Not knowing your opponent's power and still fighting them is a gamble. Knowing it and then deciding to fight them, even if they're stronger, is a measured risk. And to me a gamble is the shittiest form of risk-taking.

TyranthraxusEQ

That's my whole point though, If you walk up to someone on the street and sucker punch them because you think your the bigger tougher guy, and they have a glock, thats gambling and losing. This is a mmoRPG, roleplay is the most important part or any game of this type. A solid PvE experiance is the second part of a successful mmo, PVP being possible in that setting is the secret sauce. but if you remove the other parts to be able to do math on your statistical chances to solve for x, it's now math, not roleplay.

Songcaller

I don't see the value in the gimmick. You will still start fights blind to class/spec which means you could start a fight with your hard counter. In my mind, the gimmick is a hand hold device which will get a lot of people killed.

Ludullu

TyranthraxusEQ wrote: »

That's my whole point though, If you walk up to someone on the street and sucker punch them because you think your the bigger tougher guy, and they have a glock, thats gambling and losing. This is a mmoRPG, roleplay is the most important part or any game of this type. A solid PvE experiance is the second part of a successful mmo, PVP being possible in that setting is the secret sauce. but if you remove the other parts to be able to do math on your statistical chances to solve for x, it's now math, not roleplay.

Like I said in my answer to Dygz, I'd be totally fine if transmogs were turned off only to pvp event enemies. This way owpvp would still be gambley and all the RPs can just run in their transmogs.

Neurath wrote: »

I don't see the value in the gimmick. You will still start fights blind to class/spec which means you could start a fight with your hard counter. In my mind, the gimmick is a hand hold device which will get a lot of people killed.

I think it was in this thread, but I already addressed this too. There'll be some general meta, so if you know those trends you'd be able to at least suppose someone's build just from their gear.

And that's if Intrepid don't just make unique gear visuals across races/archetypes (class ones would probably be taking it too far), at which point you'd have an even smaller pool of potential builds.

Songcaller

Well, anyone can use any weapon and any armour. Crafters can put any stat you want on any crafted items too. The only time you might get a heads up is with the particle effects from dropped gear.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

Well, anyone can use any weapon and any armour. Crafters can put any stat you want on any crafted items too. The only time you might get a heads up is with the particle effects from dropped gear.

Addressed this already too. If crafters can in fact just give any piece of gear any kind of stat or effect instead of just tweaking the base ones a bit - why not just use your preferred gear as your main one? Transmogs mean that you've already achieved that piece of gear, right? So just go get it again through a crafter who'll tune it to your build.

Songcaller

I'm not sure about 'looks'. I don't know if it will be like SWG and the crafter selects the particular look, whether the materials used will affect the particular look or whether all of the same items created will share the same looks.

Thus,

I'm not sure of the viability of a transmog system unless you can use cosmetic skins as transmog skins too.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

I'm not sure about 'looks'. I don't know if it will be like SWG and the crafter selects the particular look, whether the materials used will affect the particular look or whether all of the same items created will share the same looks.

Thus,

I'm not sure of the viability of a transmog system unless you can use cosmetic skins as transmog skins too.

This seems to imply that you can use cosmetics as "transmogs"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Appearance_slots
Gear will have appearance slots (Transmutation/Transmog/cosmetic slots) that are used to copy the appearance of an item (in some cases).[1][2]

There are rules when applying cosmetics to specific items, unlike costumes, which don't have level restrictions.[3]

TyranthraxusEQ

I'd be fine with that solution tbh as long as it's possible, it's cumbersome time and cost wise though and a Grafting type transmog system seems simpler, and kinder to players in a game where time is easily taken away by a PK. Taking a piece you have obtained and want and attaching it to the fugly glowy piece of crap you hate and won't be caught dead in, even if it kills you in pvp.

Solvryn

I like my avatar looking like I want it to look.

So yeah I like transmog. Unfortunately most transmog doesn't allow for the style I like.

Songcaller

Cosmetics are separate to transmogs. There is no benefit to using a cosmetic skin which can go over any relevant piece of armour and 'scrapping' the cosmetic to simply place it over the exact same armour piece.

I think that's why the caveat of 'in some cases' applies.

TyranthraxusEQ

Part of me wonders if this thread is even useful though, as selling costumes is literally a massive part of Ashes income so far, so by that logic letting players hide the miss-matched bis stuff is cannon already. We are only asking to be able to create our own costumes from obtainable pieces as well as the full body suits that have been offered and sold.

Ludullu

TyranthraxusEQ wrote: »

Part of me wonders if this thread is even useful though, as selling costumes is literally a massive part of Ashes income so far, so by that logic letting players hide the miss-matched bis stuff is cannon already. We are only asking to be able to create our own costumes from obtainable pieces as well as the full body suits that have been offered and sold.

Yeah, it kinda is pointless, because I thiiiink Intrepid have already said that you won't be able to turn off others' cosmetics, so it's even worse than transmog.

Settite

NiKr wrote: »

TyranthraxusEQ wrote: »

Part of me wonders if this thread is even useful though, as selling costumes is literally a massive part of Ashes income so far, so by that logic letting players hide the miss-matched bis stuff is cannon already. We are only asking to be able to create our own costumes from obtainable pieces as well as the full body suits that have been offered and sold.

Yeah, it kinda is pointless, because I thiiiink Intrepid have already said that you won't be able to turn off others' cosmetics, so it's even worse than transmog.

Damn i was unaware of that prior to making this thread. I probably lean more to the pvp side and tbh I'd gladly wear something ugly if it was a notable power increase so I could really go either way on transmog/ cosmetic overlay. Il most likely use it to hide my gear do someone isn't entirely aware of my class/build.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Even before transmogs - my main in EQ2 was a Ratonga in starting rags who could only increase armor stats from her weapon and the Jewelry crafted by her Kerran master.
In an RPG, RP is the most important part of the game.

While that is true, Ashes also has a ton of pvp in it and in pvp those transmogs stand in the way of both you and your opponent knowing each other's power before the fight even starts.

I'd be totally fine if any pvp event (or system) automatically showed the true gear of the participant. So if I'm out and about and see a dude from a warring guild - I'd see his real gear. I feel like this would be a great compromise, though I dunno if this is doable tech-wise.

Pretty sure the devs said that large scale PvP and events will sometimes revert to "default player appearance" (no cosmetics) in order to prevent lag.

I don't think transmogs matter much when it comes to PvP targets.
When I PvP, it doesn't necessarily matter to me whether I win or lose.
What my opponent is wearing would have little bearing on my target.
I'd be more likely to choose a target based on rock-paper-scissors of Primary Archetype.
But... again... this is an example of the clash of trying to have disparate playstyles all playing on the same server.

Sengarden

As far as paid cosmetics go, I hate them, but I won't go there.

As far as transmog paid for using in-game currency that pulls from a "wardrobe" of all the armor / weapon appearances which you've collected in-game goes, I'm all in favor of it. You can have subjectively great armor designers and still get sets / pieces that some people hate the look of.

For example, if I was playing a warrior and the best set of crafted gear in the game for me was an edgy, somewhat villainous looking set of dark armor with all sorts of spikes and goth rubbish hanging off it, I'd hate it. Maybe it's a subjectively great looking armor set from the perspective of someone who likes that sort of thing, but that's not the character I'd be roleplaying as if I chose a warrior. Every day that I'd put more time and effort into getting another piece of it, I'd detest the fact that I'm grinding for a bunch of armor I find ugly and unrepresentative of my character fantasy just to get better stats.

Now, if I could get my hands on an awesome set of samurai-inspired armor like the cosmetic set that went on sale back in 2021, that's what I'd choose to look like. As I continue to progress my character after max level, I don't want all my power gains to just be coming from better gear. That sounds silly to me. From a thematic perspective, I'd like to think I'm continuing to hone my skills and get better at my craft, regardless of my gear. And if my character wants to dress a certain way and options are limited, I'd rather be able to stick with the appearance of a lower level set that better represents my character fantasy than be forced to wear some gaudy crap just so I can be competitive.

I can understand the PvP concerns, but I really don't think the range of power with max level gear should vary so greatly that you can't have fun engaging in combat unless you pull out your mega-nerd binoculars, crunch the stats of all your prospective opponent's visible gear and compare it to yours in the few seconds it takes to make an engagement decision.

I also agree that the strongest players on the server will have reputations, and if they don't, then they're probably not worth worrying about that much, especially if you can always get a general idea of their power level via a small info-graphic by their nameplate. I'd much rather fear Zedorah the Battle Mage because he's realm-renowned as the most powerful sorcerer of his class regardless of what clothes it looks like he's wearing, than fear him simply because I can see that he's adorned in the Emerald Crusted Celadian Breastplate that I've memorized has +85 Intellect and wielding the Mace of Unyielding Wrath, which anyone who's serious about the game will know has +70 Critical Strike. Which one of those scenarios sounds more fun?

Dygz

I'd much rather see the transmog gear Zedorah has chosen, rather than the cookie-cutter BiS gear.

blta

I prefer being able to stylize my character how I'd like, especially in an mmo since most will follow the exact same progression gear so we all end up looking the exact same elsewise. If you want to know the gear of the player, just have it be available to look at their character profile