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The Implications of the Removal of Crossbows/Potion Launchers

24

Comments

  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    You behave like you are some kind of important share holder. The studio doesnt owe you anything. You accepted the terms and they will also give credit for the skins.

    They are developing a game. You are just a forum user who may have donated money for the opportunity to play the game during tests. Stop acting like IS is accountable to you.
    You want an mmo. They make an mmo. They are not making YOUR mmo with their money.
    Talents wrote: »
    Judeth wrote: »
    Natasha wrote: »

    Intrepid can remove anything. For any reason. It's their game. They can also add stuff in later down the line.

    Its not “their” game, we’re the ones paying for the product, its our game. This isn’t a sandbox and they’re building a sand castle while I stand there and suggest they add a moat.

    Damn, someone tell Steven his and John's millions invested in the game isn't needed. Judeth is ready to fund the development all on his own.
    A small correction, I am in fact a woman.

    It’s astonishing to me that some people can’t comprehend that Ashes of Creation is a product, and Steven isn’t solely funding the game, and he intends to get back any amount of money ten-fold of what he invested into the development of this game once it launches. Its also a shame that people don’t understand that these forums exist for us to discuss the game, its development, and any concerns we have. Just because people have the nerve to actually use the forum for what its made for, doesn’t mean they are acting entitled.
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    And I'm pretty much watching the owpvp system disappear in front of my eyes with almost every new dev stream. And I will most likely not play the game on release if it is "gone". But that's a whole system, while weapons are just a fraction of their whole system.

    I'm just trying not to draw a line from a point, because I hate when people do that. While twitter is obviously a hellhole, I do think that it represents the worst possible extrapolations that people like to do. And twitter is damn full with people seeing one thing and then extrapolating into the worst possible direction, then thinking that this direction is somehow reality (though no indication of such thing ever happened) and then they argue their ass off against that direction.

    Rn, to me, it seems that you're doing exactly that. There's obviously a chance that they remove more features or go back on more promises in the future. But I'd prefer to worry about those if they come, rather than panicking rn.

    Also, "having more" hurts when we're talking about a game that has already promised a shitton of stuff and has yet to deliver on the absolute majority of that stuff. We could assume that Intrepid have, realistically, only worked on the game for maybe a year or two, due to super small team early on and then covid messing with stuff. But then it would mean that we still have 5+ years of development ahead of us. And at those time scales I'm almost sure that quite a few things will either get delayed by a lot of removed completely. And right now I'd prefer if those were little things rather than big core systems.

    Fair points, I can agree with you. Though personally, I think bringing up any concern major or small, is always worth discussing so that the developers know what’s on our minds (assuming they read the forum posts). I also think that voicing concerns about potential let downs is important, because being its easier to avoid something than it is to fix it. If everyone waits till its too late to say “Hey I don’t like this.” Then well, it’ll be too late.

    Edit: didn’t end quote
  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Galvyr wrote: »
    People dismissing Judeth's points are missing the forest for the trees. It's not about the weapons at the end of the day. It's the more significant implication that if they can remove this stretch goal, what else can they remove? I don't understand how anyone can be okay with unfulfilled promises. Especially when those unfulfilled promises were used to raise money for the Kickstarter. We have to be able to criticize Interipid for bad calls because that's the only way those things are going to improve. We do this because we care.

    You behave like you are some kind of important share holder. The studio doesnt owe you anything. You accepted the terms and they will also give credit for the skins.

    They are developing a game. You are just a forum user who may have donated money for the opportunity to play the game during tests. Stop acting like IS is accountable to you.
    You want an mmo. They make an mmo. They are not making YOUR mmo with their money.

    This kind of mindset is so diametrically opposed to YOUR own interests. You are also a customer. We are in this together. Interpid wants feedback all the time. I'm simply giving my perspective and advocating for the consumer. I don't understand why people are so dismissive of forum members simply criticizing Intrepid about anything. Criticism is necessary and appreciated.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Galvyr wrote: »
    Galvyr wrote: »
    People dismissing Judeth's points are missing the forest for the trees. It's not about the weapons at the end of the day. It's the more significant implication that if they can remove this stretch goal, what else can they remove? I don't understand how anyone can be okay with unfulfilled promises. Especially when those unfulfilled promises were used to raise money for the Kickstarter. We have to be able to criticize Interipid for bad calls because that's the only way those things are going to improve. We do this because we care.

    You behave like you are some kind of important share holder. The studio doesnt owe you anything. You accepted the terms and they will also give credit for the skins.

    They are developing a game. You are just a forum user who may have donated money for the opportunity to play the game during tests. Stop acting like IS is accountable to you.
    You want an mmo. They make an mmo. They are not making YOUR mmo with their money.

    This kind of mindset is so diametrically opposed to YOUR own interests. You are also a customer. We are in this together. Interpid wants feedback all the time. I'm simply giving my perspective and advocating for the consumer. I don't understand why people are so dismissive of forum members simply criticizing Intrepid about anything. Criticism is necessary and appreciated.

    A customer? You are playing videogames mate. You are not hiring contractors to build your home.
    Talk about core designs and we can have a discussion.
    Cast doubt on the integrity of the development because they did not include crossbows and potion launchers, and Ill laught at you.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Natasha wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »

    Also we haven't ACTUALLY gotten any progress on Tulnar.
    Good, we don't want the killing to begin too soon.
    gw9ufevigerl.jpeg

    That is a Tulnar.

    yeah the tulnar doing the killing on the other races :P pesky invaders coming back to tulnars lands :P
  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What would I be other than a customer? I'm not playing a Ranger, this decision doesn't affect me personally. I'm just saying that this decision sets a precedent and it's a precedent that I personally think is a bad one. I'm not questioning the integrity of the development. I'm questioning the choice to remove a section of the game and the possible controversy that can arise from that choice. Intrepid is certainly better than 99% of other game companies, but that doesn't mean they're perfect. No one is perfect.
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    A customer? You are playing videogames mate. You are not hiring contractors to build your home.
    Talk about core designs and we can have a discussion.
    Cast doubt on the integrity of the development because they did not include crossbows and potion launchers, and Ill laught at you.

    We are customers, we’re they buyers of this product. People don’t make games and charge you a fee (monthly/box/cash shop) for charity. They will make a return on investment.

    You can feel free to laugh, because i’m laughing at anyone who feels the need to demean those of us who understand the value of constructive feedback. Try to be more like the people here who are able to disagree while maintaining a healthy conversation and attitude.

    Thank you
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Judeth wrote: »
    We are customers, we’re they buyers of this product. People don’t make games and charge you a fee (monthly/box/cash shop) for charity. They will make a return on investment.

    You can feel free to laugh, because i’m laughing at anyone who feels the need to demean those of us who understand the value of constructive feedback. Try to be more like the people here who are able to disagree while maintaining a healthy conversation and attitude.

    Thank you

    Yes, George's delivery can be brusque at times ... but his point is still valid.

    Drawing a conclusion (that other promised features might go missing) may be crossing the line from "constructive feedback" over to "slippery slope".

    That's how the OP was framed at least.
  • So with crossbows and potion launchers put to one side for now. It still means that there are 16 different weapon types listed in the wiki (with some of them offering 1-handed and 2-handed options).

    Axes (One and two handed).
    Bows.
    Clubs.
    Daggers.
    Hammers.
    Lances.
    Maces (One and two handed).
    Orbs.
    Polearms/Halberds.
    Scepters.
    Shields.
    Spears (One-handed).
    Spellbooks.
    Staves.
    Swords/Rapiers (One and two handed).
    Wands.

    Interestingly, out of those 16 options, there are only 5 (marked in bold) that I can see that will offer ranged abilities. Unless other weapons are also being given ranged options. (like throwing daggers and axes or significant gap closers and leap attacks)
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »
    So with crossbows and potion launchers put to one side for now. It still means that there are 16 different weapon types listed in the wiki (with some of them offering 1-handed and 2-handed options).

    Axes (One and two handed).
    Bows.
    Clubs.
    Daggers.
    Hammers.
    Lances.
    Maces (One and two handed).
    Orbs.
    Polearms/Halberds.
    Scepters.
    Shields.
    Spears (One-handed).
    Spellbooks.
    Staves.
    Swords/Rapiers (One and two handed).
    Wands.

    Interestingly, out of those 16 options, there are only 5 (marked in bold) that I can see that will offer ranged abilities. Unless other weapons are also being given ranged options. (like throwing daggers and axes or significant gap closers and leap attacks)

    Yeah, and unfortunately only one out of those 5 seems to be for the archer class, the rest are for mages. I think they will have different types of bows (longbows/shortbows), but those options are still pretty limiting. I assume the archer primary class is supposed to mainly focus on ranged attacks.
  • This content has been removed.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I've only played a game that required particular weapons to use class abilities (so pretty much what Ashes is gonna be), so I got a question. Are there mmos (or even rpgs) where rogues don't use daggers and instead use smth else? I don't think I've even heard of them using short swords or anything like that, but maybe I just missed the game that did that.
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    I've only played a game that required particular weapons to use class abilities (so pretty much what Ashes is gonna be), so I got a question. Are there mmos (or even rpgs) where rogues don't use daggers and instead use smth else? I don't think I've even heard of them using short swords or anything like that, but maybe I just missed the game that did that.

    Non mmorpgs:
    Path of Exile I believe (been awhile since i’ve played), you can use any weapon and spec your character however you want.
    Dark and Darker rogues can use rapiers
    Mabinogi is an mmorpg, there are no classes and you have to use a certain weapon for certain skills, but you can equip whatever weapon and efficiently switch between different “classes” in combat.

    But no, I can’t think of any mmos that allow the player choice I have mentioned.
    Just because there aren’t any mmos (that I know of) with classes that don’t have class locked weapons, doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be. Can’t break the mold if they use the same mold every other game uses. So honestly i’m not sure why it matters if there aren’t any.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Judeth wrote: »
    Just because there aren’t any mmos (that I know of) with classes that don’t have class locked weapons, doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be. Can’t break the mold if they use the same mold every other game uses. So honestly i’m not sure why it matters if there aren’t any.
    It's just that to me a "Rogue" always means someone who's gonna kill you from the shadows with a super short pointy stick, mainly because anything longer just doesn't work in close quarters. And I can't come up with a weapon that could replace daggers w/o changing the rogues role. Rapier is kinda close and L2 had its rapier-wearing class be as close to a rogue as possible, but it still gave off a light fighter feel rather than a rogue one.

    And my point here is that archers aren't the only ones that are limited in their RP weaponry. No one's gonna stop you from just using other weapons, but if you wanna get the best out of your class - you gotta use its main weapon. Just as the tank showcase was laughed at because it didn't have a shield on the tank for the first half of the video, the absolute majority of archers/rogues would be laughed at if they didn't use their main weapons.

    Though considering that even the fighter in Ashes has that magic hammer that appears out of nowhere, I'd imagine that other classes will have magic-based attacks that don't really require any specific weapon too. And with a proper set of augments, there'd have to be at least one viable build that uses those abilities with some non-main weapon. You'll still probably get laughed at if you go down that route though.
  • GoalidGoalid Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Judeth wrote: »
    Are we to expect more shortcuts in the future?

    Considering that crossbows were a stretch goal, people paid to have them implemented. Dropping them from the game implies a disregard for other promised features.

    This is incorrect. It was a stretch goal for Intrepid, not a Kickstarter stretch goal. It's akin to Intrepid's goal to have 500v500 battles, even though they would be ok with 250v250 wars. They sold some cosmetics for crossbows during APOC and are refunding the embers spent. I think if anything, they should refund the money as well, it can't be much. But it really isn't as big a deal, or a sign that they'll betray the Kickstarter backers.
    Judeth wrote: »
    It also implies that Ashes combat/class systems will not be as multiplex and flexible as many of us hope it will be. They’ve chosen to exclude these weapons because of extra animation and vfx work, and most likely because they also don’t want to worry about adding additional skills that support these weapons. This suggests that there will only be a set amount of skills that come with your class, and players will not be able to build their character with unique skill combinations that specialize with their weapon choice and enchants/buffs. This suggests a very two-dimensional system, which is a major disappointment… Not only because it limits player choice, but it limits the heights that can be reached in the game. A two-dimensional combat system goes in tandem with a two-dimensional craft system and so forth.

    They probably felt that a crossbow would necessitate a number of new skills or a new class. It isn't that Intrepid can't easily make a couple new skills. It's that each new skill comes with 32 augments, and the design team probably decided the cost benefit of launching with crossbows wasn't worth it. It's probably easier for Intrepid to do a full refund for crossbow cosmetics than it would cost them in dev time to make crossbow a weapon.
    h4iQQYb.png
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Judeth wrote: »
    A customer? You are playing videogames mate. You are not hiring contractors to build your home.
    Talk about core designs and we can have a discussion.
    Cast doubt on the integrity of the development because they did not include crossbows and potion launchers, and Ill laught at you.

    We are customers, we’re they buyers of this product. People don’t make games and charge you a fee (monthly/box/cash shop) for charity. They will make a return on investment.

    You can feel free to laugh, because i’m laughing at anyone who feels the need to demean those of us who understand the value of constructive feedback. Try to be more like the people here who are able to disagree while maintaining a healthy conversation and attitude.

    Thank you

    What did you buy?
    How is your feedback constructive? You act as if the game isn't in development. You act as if you have purchased something and they tricked you.
    So every time that IS makes such minor changes should people come here and discredit the transparent development? Again, you are playing a video game. You are not hiring lawyers, doctors, builders, you are not travelling with a plane, you are deluded if you think that a studio "must be held accountable to the playerbase" when they are in the process of designing a game because they decided not to include damn crossbows.
    It's not like they removed the class system
    It's not like they removed crafting, leveling, questing, pvping, They decided not to implement a weapon that never existed. Get over it, you ain't got no constructive criticism.


    What is there to criticize? What is your feedback? "I want crossbows in the game" ?
    "You made a change without our approval" ?
    "You didn't consider my feelings or my placed trust"?

    Seriously, go read what you signed up for....... and give it a rest.
  • GalvyrGalvyr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Goalid wrote: »
    Judeth wrote: »
    Are we to expect more shortcuts in the future?

    Considering that crossbows were a stretch goal, people paid to have them implemented. Dropping them from the game implies a disregard for other promised features.

    This is incorrect. It was a stretch goal for Intrepid, not a Kickstarter stretch goal. It's akin to Intrepid's goal to have 500v500 battles, even though they would be ok with 250v250 wars. They sold some cosmetics for crossbows during APOC and are refunding the embers spent. I think if anything, they should refund the money as well, it can't be much. But it really isn't as big a deal, or a sign that they'll betray the Kickstarter backers.
    Judeth wrote: »
    It also implies that Ashes combat/class systems will not be as multiplex and flexible as many of us hope it will be. They’ve chosen to exclude these weapons because of extra animation and vfx work, and most likely because they also don’t want to worry about adding additional skills that support these weapons. This suggests that there will only be a set amount of skills that come with your class, and players will not be able to build their character with unique skill combinations that specialize with their weapon choice and enchants/buffs. This suggests a very two-dimensional system, which is a major disappointment… Not only because it limits player choice, but it limits the heights that can be reached in the game. A two-dimensional combat system goes in tandem with a two-dimensional craft system and so forth.

    They probably felt that a crossbow would necessitate a number of new skills or a new class. It isn't that Intrepid can't easily make a couple new skills. It's that each new skill comes with 32 augments, and the design team probably decided the cost benefit of launching with crossbows wasn't worth it. It's probably easier for Intrepid to do a full refund for crossbow cosmetics than it would cost them in dev time to make crossbow a weapon.
    Goalid wrote: »
    Judeth wrote: »
    Are we to expect more shortcuts in the future?

    Considering that crossbows were a stretch goal, people paid to have them implemented. Dropping them from the game implies a disregard for other promised features.

    This is incorrect. It was a stretch goal for Intrepid, not a Kickstarter stretch goal. It's akin to Intrepid's goal to have 500v500 battles, even though they would be ok with 250v250 wars. They sold some cosmetics for crossbows during APOC and are refunding the embers spent. I think if anything, they should refund the money as well, it can't be much. But it really isn't as big a deal, or a sign that they'll betray the Kickstarter backers.
    Judeth wrote: »
    It also implies that Ashes combat/class systems will not be as multiplex and flexible as many of us hope it will be. They’ve chosen to exclude these weapons because of extra animation and vfx work, and most likely because they also don’t want to worry about adding additional skills that support these weapons. This suggests that there will only be a set amount of skills that come with your class, and players will not be able to build their character with unique skill combinations that specialize with their weapon choice and enchants/buffs. This suggests a very two-dimensional system, which is a major disappointment… Not only because it limits player choice, but it limits the heights that can be reached in the game. A two-dimensional combat system goes in tandem with a two-dimensional craft system and so forth.

    They probably felt that a crossbow would necessitate a number of new skills or a new class. It isn't that Intrepid can't easily make a couple new skills. It's that each new skill comes with 32 augments, and the design team probably decided the cost benefit of launching with crossbows wasn't worth it. It's probably easier for Intrepid to do a full refund for crossbow cosmetics than it would cost them in dev time to make crossbow a weapon.

    Thank you for your help clearing that up, because I couldn't find any evidence that it was a Kickstarter stretch goal and was confused.
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Judeth wrote: »
    Just because there aren’t any mmos (that I know of) with classes that don’t have class locked weapons, doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be. Can’t break the mold if they use the same mold every other game uses. So honestly i’m not sure why it matters if there aren’t any.
    It's just that to me a "Rogue" always means someone who's gonna kill you from the shadows with a super short pointy stick, mainly because anything longer just doesn't work in close quarters. And I can't come up with a weapon that could replace daggers w/o changing the rogues role. Rapier is kinda close and L2 had its rapier-wearing class be as close to a rogue as possible, but it still gave off a light fighter feel rather than a rogue one.

    And my point here is that archers aren't the only ones that are limited in their RP weaponry. No one's gonna stop you from just using other weapons, but if you wanna get the best out of your class - you gotta use its main weapon. Just as the tank showcase was laughed at because it didn't have a shield on the tank for the first half of the video, the absolute majority of archers/rogues would be laughed at if they didn't use their main weapons.

    Though considering that even the fighter in Ashes has that magic hammer that appears out of nowhere, I'd imagine that other classes will have magic-based attacks that don't really require any specific weapon too. And with a proper set of augments, there'd have to be at least one viable build that uses those abilities with some non-main weapon. You'll still probably get laughed at if you go down that route though.

    I see your point now. You’re right there will 100% be a ‘meta’ weapon type for each class to use to maximize its potential. Even so, I still want the ability to make some ridiculous build and get laughed at for it, and I want there to be the possibility of someone making some funky build that ends up actually being viable. This level of customization really adds to the rp, and also potential fun interactions. Maybe I wanna be a dwarf mage that uses a club, it does terribly magic damage but its hilarious. More reasonable builds would be something like a rogue using a dagger offhand and short sword mainhand. Or an off tank that uses a two-handed axe.
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    Judeth wrote: »
    A customer? You are playing videogames mate. You are not hiring contractors to build your home.
    Talk about core designs and we can have a discussion.
    Cast doubt on the integrity of the development because they did not include crossbows and potion launchers, and Ill laught at you.

    We are customers, we’re they buyers of this product. People don’t make games and charge you a fee (monthly/box/cash shop) for charity. They will make a return on investment.

    You can feel free to laugh, because i’m laughing at anyone who feels the need to demean those of us who understand the value of constructive feedback. Try to be more like the people here who are able to disagree while maintaining a healthy conversation and attitude.

    Thank you

    What did you buy?
    How is your feedback constructive? You act as if the game isn't in development. You act as if you have purchased something and they tricked you.
    So every time that IS makes such minor changes should people come here and discredit the transparent development? Again, you are playing a video game. You are not hiring lawyers, doctors, builders, you are not travelling with a plane, you are deluded if you think that a studio "must be held accountable to the playerbase" when they are in the process of designing a game because they decided not to include damn crossbows.
    It's not like they removed the class system
    It's not like they removed crafting, leveling, questing, pvping, They decided not to implement a weapon that never existed. Get over it, you ain't got no constructive criticism.


    What is there to criticize? What is your feedback? "I want crossbows in the game" ?
    "You made a change without our approval" ?
    "You didn't consider my feelings or my placed trust"?

    Seriously, go read what you signed up for....... and give it a rest.

    Dude, I don’t know why you’re so angry and acting so aggressively towards people with different opinions than you. Literally no one is saying any of these things you said we are. Your first comment was chill, but then you started acting rude. I can also tell you didn’t even read my original post, or if you did you missed the point of it entirely. I’m just going to stop responding to you because you need to get off your high horse and go cool down.
    lol-tea.mp4
  • RoxiRoxi Member, Alpha Two
    it’s good that in Russian the word “archer” (лучник) came from the word “bow” (лук), and not a "crossbow" (арбалет) ... otherwise I also had foam near my mouth. XD
    5ls3nob7lngp.gif
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I feel the ability scope has been cut a lot - namely, racial skills, crossbow and potion launchers. That's around 90 skills and 360 augments at the least. Thus, I think its clear the devs have had to reign in the framework quite a lot. Doesn't help with the constant combat overhauls I think.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    I've only played a game that required particular weapons to use class abilities (so pretty much what Ashes is gonna be), so I got a question. Are there mmos (or even rpgs) where rogues don't use daggers and instead use smth else? I don't think I've even heard of them using short swords or anything like that, but maybe I just missed the game that did that.

    In EQ2 at release, a rogue would use a short sword in their main hand, and a dagger in their off hand. It wasn't restricted to this, but it was the most common weapon combination.

    There were also some lower level rogues using clubs, whips. The game also kind of moved away from that a bit as time went on as well. One of the games two Rogue classes had as their Epic Weapon (if you could get it, you would use it without question) a double bladed sword with particle effect squid tentacles coming off the top blade. Looked kind of cool for it's time.
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    Roxi wrote: »
    it’s good that in Russian the word “archer” (лучник) came from the word “bow” (лук), and not a "crossbow" (арбалет) ... otherwise I also had foam near my mouth. XD

    f459fed55209b196cf092fc6812cb6cf.jpg
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Judeth wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Your suggestion of making crossbows only available in high level nodes is missing the point. The point is to not spend time on them, and having them only available to specific nodes still requires that time be spent.

    This made me chuckle. Touché. 😆

    I mentioned it because I think its a good idea and a solid reason to spend time on them, as it would give more reasons to level up a scientific node, or to be a crafter in a scientific node.

    I would submit that the best argument to try and get Intrepid to spend development time to implement something would be to give them MORE ways in which that work will get used, not fewer ways in which it will get used.

    We will see crossbows at some point in the future. Intrepid have said they want to add new content every 3 months or so post launch.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Natasha wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I feel the ability scope has been cut a lot - namely, racial skills, crossbow and potion launchers. That's around 90 skills and 360 augments at the least. Thus, I think its clear the devs have had to reign in the framework quite a lot. Doesn't help with the constant combat overhauls I think.

    I feel like they've had an internal audit after the tax season and looked at what's happening in departments and what money is going where and they've decided to cut or change some non-essentials and redeploy some of those resources elsewhere.

    Yeah. I wouldn't disagree. I feel the core concepts are still protected but there will still be surprises. Open development can be difficult for everyone. At least we are free to express all of our emotions lol.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Judeth wrote: »
    Roxi wrote: »
    much more interesting than your snot which you call "constructive feedback".
    Вы хотите комментировать русский язык, но обижаться на русский шутки? Окей. Русская этимология переводится лучник как «bower» и «луч» означает «beam». Это не то же самое, что на английском. Это слово было создано до появления арбалета.

    He wasn't offended by anything.
  • JudethJudeth Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Judeth wrote: »
    Roxi wrote: »
    much more interesting than your snot which you call "constructive feedback".
    Вы хотите комментировать русский язык, но обижаться на русский шутки? Окей. Русская этимология переводится лучник как «bower» и «луч» означает «beam». Это не то же самое, что на английском. Это слово было создано до появления арбалета.

    He wasn't offended by anything.

    No, they were clearly offended by the meme I sent. It’s why they responded the way they did. I sent the meme because their little comment about the word archer was random as hell and amused me.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Judeth wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Judeth wrote: »
    Roxi wrote: »
    much more interesting than your snot which you call "constructive feedback".
    Вы хотите комментировать русский язык, но обижаться на русский шутки? Окей. Русская этимология переводится лучник как «bower» и «луч» означает «beam». Это не то же самое, что на английском. Это слово было создано до появления арбалета.

    He wasn't offended by anything.

    No, they were clearly offended by the meme I sent.
    No they weren't.

    There was nothing in their post to suggest offense.

    The fact that you claim to have seen it kind of says you posted that picture in an attempt to cause some sort of offense.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Galvyr wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Galvyr wrote: »
    People dismissing Judeth's points are missing the forest for the trees. It's not about the weapons at the end of the day. It's the more significant implication that if they can remove this stretch goal, what else can they remove? I don't understand how anyone can be okay with unfulfilled promises. Especially when those unfulfilled promises were used to raise money for the Kickstarter. We have to be able to criticize Interipid for bad calls because that's the only way those things are going to improve. We do this because we care.
    At 33:54 here they laugh at crossbows being accidentally included on the screenshot and then remove them, which to me seems like a good indicator that even in 2018 they already at least thought of not including those in the game
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nff_kdiKdDU

    Also, I've tried looking for concrete info, but I can't find any indication of particularly crossbows or launchers being promised in the kickstarter. And wiki seems to have moved on from them and only points towards those weapons just mentioned in the context of APOC.

    Do you have a link that directly shows Intrepid promising these 2 particular weapons for kickstarter backers?

    Steven himself said it. I have also looked for direct evidence, but I am deferring to Steven on this. He said it was a stretch goal and now that stretch goal is being axed. In my opinion, that is breaking a promise. It just makes doesn't sense for crossbows especially to not be included in the game. It does a disservice to the Ranger class. It doesn't make sense from a lore perspective. They were already in Apoc. It gives us less variety of weapon options, etc. But as I said before, it really is more about the broader implications for me than the weapons being cut.

    This may help you:
    Stretch-Goal.png
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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