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Trash talk the Corruptin system

13

Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    No. Corrupted aren't dampened in pve.

    Not written in stone, I am already considering it will be changed which is the worst scenario!

    Death penalties do not differ between Pvp and PvE, but this is subject to change.[62]

    The more skill and stat dampening applies (lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency), until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat.[16][11][18][8][19][20] This dampening only affects PvP combat.[21]

    Death penalties are different to corruption penalties.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Corrupted have no penalties against bounty hunters. It's like purple on purple. To call that dull is to call all pvp dull.

    Bounty Hunting ties into military nodes and has nothing to do with the religion system. If Corruption is a spiritual issue, why are they sending people from military nodes?

    Why now, can we only gain corruption from being inside of lawful territories?

    At this point, corruption isn't a spiritual issue. It's an issue of a territory and the territories laws.

    I would love to be a bounty hunter from a Divine Node but when did you last see a priest bounty hunt?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    It is quite absurd that PKers are penalized when fighting against purple players, but not when facing off against bounty hunters. It's a confusing situation, oh spiritual world, who get's you?

    I think that the dampening effect should be removed entirely, and instead, PKers should be sent to jail as a form of punishment or completely enslaved.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Really, when corruption was attached to the military node alongside bounty hunters the devs should have moved bounty hunters to divine node rather than removed corrupted from the military node.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    If people will be punished, at least make it interesting for everybody, including to the PK. Today's proposal is pretty much nothing, you will be in that corny dead end of corruption.

    Hopefully, corruption will never turn into the smb kink you're trying to sell it to us. It will remain a pure punishment, no pleasure for anyone involved. >:)

    It takes two to make one corrupted, and they both pay a price. The green that never fought back suffer a normal death penalty (lost resources, xp debt, respanwing somewhere else and, mostly, time lost). The attacker gets corruption. At any point in their encounter one of them could prevent the corruption, but the final say is always in the hands of the attacker. Sure, there will be a few oopsies, but in most cases the player turning corrupted decided to do so.

    Let's not forget that being green is the normal status everyone will be, and return to, while on the open world (ocean aside). Unless an area is quite active pvp-wise, most initial contact between players will be green vs. green. Everyone will have to decide if it's worthwhile to start a fight with someone else, and those opting for the easy circumstances of targets already being with mobs, or so low level compared to themselves, will run the risk of their prey having no chances to fight back and so getting corruption.

    PKs are never victims. They knew the possible consequences and decided to go through anyway.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Corrupted have no penalties against bounty hunters. It's like purple on purple. To call that dull is to call all pvp dull.

    Bounty Hunting ties into military nodes and has nothing to do with the religion system. If Corruption is a spiritual issue, why are they sending people from military nodes?

    Why now, can we only gain corruption from being inside of lawful territories?

    At this point, corruption isn't a spiritual issue. It's an issue of a territory and the territories laws.

    I would love to be a bounty hunter from a Divine Node but when did you last see a priest bounty hunt?

    I've never, but I've heard of Inquisitors hunt. Would be a damn good question for Intrepid to answer right?
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Percimes wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    If people will be punished, at least make it interesting for everybody, including to the PK. Today's proposal is pretty much nothing, you will be in that corny dead end of corruption.

    PKs are never victims. They knew the possible consequences and decided to go through anyway.

    No one is a victim when they read TOS understand what is going on and press the login button.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    If corruption is akin to karma and sin, karma and sin exist everywhere.
    This is not what corruption is.

    Corruption is the negative aspect of The Essence.

    If you are going to a make an argument as to whether a game system makes sense based on the games lore (which is what you have done above), at least look in to the games lore a little bit.

    It was a reference to actual real life mythos which in this case the system is closest to karma.

    Of course, I read the lore and saw where Steven drew his inspiration. ;)

    If you read the lore, you wouldn't have equated corruption to karma.

    The lore makes it *abundantly* clear that corruption isn't everywhere, making your point moot before you even made it.
  • PercimesPercimes Member
    edited March 2023
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Percimes wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    If people will be punished, at least make it interesting for everybody, including to the PK. Today's proposal is pretty much nothing, you will be in that corny dead end of corruption.

    PKs are never victims. They knew the possible consequences and decided to go through anyway.

    No one is a victim when they read TOS understand what is going on and press the login button.

    True, the rules are the rules, for everyone who login. So what have the PKs to complain about if they knew what the were getting into? Didn't they also read the TOS?

    I hate to say it, but the game won't be for everyone. That goes for PvEers and PvPers.

    Since the game isn't released yet, it's all fine to fight over the proposed implementations on these forums. But when it'll be live, we'll all have to judge if we're fine or not about the game.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    If corruption is akin to karma and sin, karma and sin exist everywhere.
    This is not what corruption is.

    Corruption is the negative aspect of The Essence.

    If you are going to a make an argument as to whether a game system makes sense based on the games lore (which is what you have done above), at least look in to the games lore a little bit.

    It was a reference to actual real life mythos which in this case the system is closest to karma.

    Of course, I read the lore and saw where Steven drew his inspiration. ;)

    If you read the lore, you wouldn't have equated corruption to karma.

    The lore makes it *abundantly* clear that corruption isn't everywhere, making your point moot before you even made it.

    7051mvkdebkn.png
    eq1lkb2dhe5n.png

    lol. Really no point in talking to you anymore. Chew on that shoe.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    What happend, Nik. You used to back more bonuses for greens and harsher penalties for reds. Now you advocate for the opposite. Strange times.
    I'm still for all of that, but in proper balancing. Completely fucking over the Reds, while not giving anything back to the greens, WHILE ALSO making BHs useless are all the things I've been against since the very start.

    I just want a better interconnected system than the current one seems to be.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Percimes wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Percimes wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    If people will be punished, at least make it interesting for everybody, including to the PK. Today's proposal is pretty much nothing, you will be in that corny dead end of corruption.

    PKs are never victims. They knew the possible consequences and decided to go through anyway.

    No one is a victim when they read TOS understand what is going on and press the login button.

    True, the rules are the rules, for everyone who login. So what have the PKs to complain about if they knew what the were getting into? Didn't they also read the TOS?

    I hate to say it, but the game won't be for everyone. That goes for PvEers and PvPers.

    Since the game isn't released yet, it's all fine to fight over the proposed implementations on these forums. But when it'll be live, we'll all have to judge if we're fine or not about the game.

    I'll hold my discernment on the "game isn't for everyone" till concrete decisions are made by Intrepid and Steven.

    I don't think anyone here is fighting over the proposed corruption system. Rather wanting extreme clarity.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Not only are red players unable to walk freely in cities due to NPC guards attacking them on sight wasn't punishing enough, but there is also no city specifically designed for red players.

    Green players will gain nothing from it, except for dozing off while picking mushrooms.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023

    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Not only are red players unable to walk freely in cities due to NPC guards attacking them on sight wasn't punishing enough, but there is also no city specifically designed for red players.

    Green players will gain nothing from it, except for dozing off while picking mushrooms.

    I think people weaponizing being "PKd" needs to come to an end, not every person who "PKs" is bad for destroying a green, because some greens are obnoxious and do not possess the intellectual or moral integrity to have a genuine conversation.

    At that point it's free game to destroy them, I have no sympathy for anyone who genuinely doesn't respect their own sentience.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If a player doesn't like the penalties that come with being Red, then don't go Red.

    It is simple as that. Why would someone want to go Red? What does one gain by going Red? Do they have some weird twist to their psyce that makes them think that they are macho & tough if they go Red?

    Someone infringing on what you think is your hunting spot? Make them force you out by going purple, and fight back. Or give them an unarmed hand slap for 1 point of damage so you are purple, which is a challenge to them to fight.

    Someone badmouthing you? Turn off the sound.

    You know the consequences of going Red, so you don't have much right to whine about those consequences when you make yourself Red.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    tautau wrote: »
    You know the consequences of going Red, so you don't have much right to whine about those consequences when you make yourself Red.
    But if those consequence are huge and harsh, and everyone knows that, no one will ever fight back because why would they do that, knowing that no one would ever go Red due to those huge consequences. And now you effectively have turned your owpvp into a toggleable one.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    tautau wrote: »
    If a player doesn't like the penalties that come with being Red, then don't go Red.

    It is simple as that. Why would someone want to go Red? What does one gain by going Red? Do they have some weird twist to their psyce that makes them think that they are macho & tough if they go Red?

    Someone infringing on what you think is your hunting spot? Make them force you out by going purple, and fight back. Or give them an unarmed hand slap for 1 point of damage so you are purple, which is a challenge to them to fight.

    Someone badmouthing you? Turn off the sound.

    You know the consequences of going Red, so you don't have much right to whine about those consequences when you make yourself Red.

    @tautau, it seems that you haven't read the messages in this thread. Many people here are actually in favor of the Corruption system, even with new consequences, as it provides more opportunities for greens, bounty hunters, and PKs.

    i3b7etgge8e2.png

    Hardly anyone will be flagged as red, as Stephen was too hesitant to incorporate an option to disable PvP. However, given the proposed Corruption system, Intrepid could be more straightforward and include the option to disable PvP..

    The point is that the current model is a flop, Intrepid could as well simply turn off the entire Corruption system and the flagging system should have only purple vs purple, greens doing PvE and turn off the Bounty Hunting.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    tautau wrote: »
    You know the consequences of going Red, so you don't have much right to whine about those consequences when you make yourself Red.
    But if those consequence are huge and harsh, and everyone knows that, no one will ever fight back because why would they do that, knowing that no one would ever go Red due to those huge consequences. And now you effectively have turned your owpvp into a toggleable one.

    haha we posted the same thing at the same time,we are on the same page on this

    it's pretty much the same as toggling pvp on and off, but Intrepid was too shy to do so since this would put the game in the hall of shame right of the bat
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    tautau wrote: »
    If a player doesn't like the penalties that come with being Red, then don't go Red.

    It's the same as if you know you can get ganked in open PvP, then don't click the login button.
    tautau wrote: »
    It is simple as that. Why would someone want to go Red? What does one gain by going Red? Do they have some weird twist to their psyce that makes them think that they are macho & tough if they go Red?

    To body people they don't like, to kill people in the spawn they want to hunt at, to kill people strategically so they can prevent them from entering a siege.

    There's many strategic and tactical reasons to go red that do not involve ego.

    tautau wrote: »
    Someone infringing on what you think is your hunting spot? Make them force you out by going purple, and fight back. Or give them an unarmed hand slap for 1 point of damage so you are purple, which is a challenge to them to fight.
    tautau wrote: »
    Someone badmouthing you? Turn off the sound.

    -or- they can experience actual consequences more severe like being smashed.
    tautau wrote: »
    You know the consequences of going Red, so you don't have much right to whine about those consequences when you make yourself Red.

    No ones whining, have some intellectual integrity and read the posts.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    If corruption is akin to karma and sin, karma and sin exist everywhere.
    This is not what corruption is.

    Corruption is the negative aspect of The Essence.

    If you are going to a make an argument as to whether a game system makes sense based on the games lore (which is what you have done above), at least look in to the games lore a little bit.

    It was a reference to actual real life mythos which in this case the system is closest to karma.

    Of course, I read the lore and saw where Steven drew his inspiration. ;)

    If you read the lore, you wouldn't have equated corruption to karma.

    The lore makes it *abundantly* clear that corruption isn't everywhere, making your point moot before you even made it.

    7051mvkdebkn.png
    eq1lkb2dhe5n.png

    lol. Really no point in talking to you anymore. Chew on that shoe.

    This post makes no sense.

    Corruption in Ashes isn't karma, because karma is everywhere, but corruption in Ashes isn't everywhere.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What happend, Nik. You used to back more bonuses for greens and harsher penalties for reds. Now you advocate for the opposite. Strange times.
    I'm still for all of that, but in proper balancing. Completely fucking over the Reds, while not giving anything back to the greens, WHILE ALSO making BHs useless are all the things I've been against since the very start.

    I just want a better interconnected system than the current one seems to be.

    Yeah. I don't deny that more can be added to the corruption system. I feel we can't complain about balance in any regard because balance hasn't initiated yet. I haven't seen PvP since A1 and I still feel corrupted wont face bounty hunters unless a bounty hunter is close due to no Fast Travel. The issue remains I don't think it would be fair to turn someone corrupted until a Bounty Hunter intervenes.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • UboonUboon Member, Alpha Two
    Corruption feels like something New World would do as an emergency patch after they realised 'always on PvP' was causing griefing. As it happens they chose 'opt-in PvP flag' which is the boring alternative.

    Corruption should not be needed if the other PvP systems were fully comprehensive. For example, you do not need Corruption in Node Wars or caravan attacks. Surely there is a system that can all but eliminate the need for the 'emergency patch' corruption mechanics?!?! I have suggested a few in the past.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Corruption has been in the game design since inception. I do not see corruption as an emergency addition.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Trenker wrote: »
    Corruption feels like something New World would do as an emergency patch after they realised 'always on PvP' was causing griefing. As it happens they chose 'opt-in PvP flag' which is the boring alternative.

    Corruption should not be needed if the other PvP systems were fully comprehensive. For example, you do not need Corruption in Node Wars or caravan attacks. Surely there is a system that can all but eliminate the need for the 'emergency patch' corruption mechanics?!?! I have suggested a few in the past.

    I have read your "Risk & Reward versus Corruption" post with great attention, and do I agree with you that the current model is flawed. However, I don't believe in having a "greed level" because I think players should explore the game world and decide for themselves which content they want to contribute to the game.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Hey everyone, I've noticed another BIG PROBLEM in the game design. Let me explain:

    While the "legalized" PvP features such as guild wars, node wars, caravan battles, and naval warfare are fantastic, there is a major issue in them. These PvP systems are not always readily available. If there are no legal PvP opportunities available at the moment, then there will be zero PvP for players to engage in.

    Yeah that's right, In other words, players could log in for multiple days without any PvP opportunities at all.

    If you're looking to take down a group of troublesome people, you'll have to go through all the necessary steps such as completing quests, gathering scrolls, and accumulating enough resources and wealth. However, by the time you have everything you need, the situation may have already changed. You could find yourself putting in all that effort to deal with the group, only to discover they have already moved on to another location.

    It can be a complete letdown due to the systems bureacratic nature, the legalized PvP is as bureacratic and slow just like public services in real life. Believe me, somedays you log in desiring for some bounty hunting but there will find no PKs to kill and you will also have no legal PvP to fight for, you will log and just stare at the trees.

    What is left is setting to purple, so you will purple yourself and embrace all the purple incomming towards you, they could be other people who have nothing to do with the people you want dead. If you are alone, good luck against guilds.

    The people who will have the fun PvP experience will be the group who brings more purples in most cases. This is what I foresee in AoC, the solo PvPers will be squashed in most cases and sometimes you will have no legal PvP to do and you will have to join large purple groups in roams.

    It will be a slow process getting yourself in the sweet spot of PvP for you and once most people are all set they will stay in that process and milk it until they get bored. Most people will be sitting in their spots, unless you travel all around as green and then travelling is just boring repetition.

    Circunvent eveything you can't chew and once you find what you can do, then slowly and bureaucratically milk it.

    The game is becomming a mix of owPvP and toggle off PvP.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The arena system may support cross-server combat. Arena should be viable for pvp at any time. It's instances and not open world but pvp is pvp.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Hey everyone, I've noticed another BIG PROBLEM in the game design. Let me explain:

    While the "legalized" PvP features such as guild wars, node wars, caravan battles, and naval warfare are fantastic, there is a major issue in them. These PvP systems are not always readily available. If there are no legal PvP opportunities available at the moment, then there will be zero PvP for players to engage in.

    Yeah that's right, In other words, players could log in for multiple days without any PvP opportunities at all.

    If you're looking to take down a group of troublesome people, you'll have to go through all the necessary steps such as completing quests, gathering scrolls, and accumulating enough resources and wealth. However, by the time you have everything you need, the situation may have already changed. You could find yourself putting in all that effort to deal with the group, only to discover they have already moved on to another location.

    It can be a complete letdown due to the systems bureacratic nature, the legalized PvP is as bureacratic and slow just like public services in real life. Believe me, somedays you log in desiring for some bounty hunting but there will find no PKs to kill and you will also have no legal PvP to fight for, you will log and just stare at the trees.

    What is left is setting to purple, so you will purple yourself and embrace all the purple incomming towards you, they could be other people who have nothing to do with the people you want dead. If you are alone, good luck against guilds.

    The people who will have the fun PvP experience will be the group who brings more purples in most cases. This is what I foresee in AoC, the solo PvPers will be squashed in most cases and sometimes you will have no legal PvP to do and you will have to join large purple groups in roams.

    It will be a slow process getting yourself in the sweet spot of PvP for you and once most people are all set they will stay in that process and milk it until they get bored. Most people will be sitting in their spots, unless you travel all around as green and then travelling is just boring repetition.

    Circunvent eveything you can't chew and once you find what you can do, then slowly and bureaucratically milk it.

    The game is becomming a mix of owPvP and toggle off PvP.

    Maybe separate corruption and lawlessness into their own systems.

    Corruption should be dealt by a religious node and lawlessness should be dealt by a military node.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Corruption should be dealt by a religious node and lawlessness should be dealt by a military node.

    The concept of spiritual corruption in the game makes it seem like you are turning into a Sith, but with no ability to use the force, which is quite absurd. It's also surprising that you can continuously kill people legally without any impact on your spiritual state. Since when the spiritual world adhere to the laws of man?
    Corruption tarnishes the character’s spiritual essence. Their ability to utilize the Verra’s magic found within them is diminished.[6] – Steven Sharif

    Utilizing Verra's magic, I don't know yet what that is for sure.
    The Essence is a metaphysical energy or life-force (Chi) that can be manipulated to create what could be viewed as magic. There are different planes of existence (realms) with varying degrees of strength (of magic), determined by their proximity to the Essence. The planes of existence in Ashes of Creation are connected across bridges created by the Essence.[11][2]

    So... a corrupted fighter couldn't care less for that? :#
    Any form of changeling or shape shifting that's capable is done so through the Essence. There’s a few ways that a soul can become attuned to a specific type of magic in manipulating the Essence; and overtime as you manipulate the Essence in the same way, your soul can start to develop a tendency to gravitate towards that type of magic. So in that sense- those shape shifters and/or changelings that are capable of changing their form- they do so because they have mastered to a degree that type of magic; and their souls have become attuned to that type of magic.[15] – Steven Sharif

    So, corruption would block you from touching the Essence and then you would be less and less powerful?
    Maybe...
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Corruption should be dealt by a religious node and lawlessness should be dealt by a military node.

    The concept of spiritual corruption in the game makes it seem like you are turning into a Sith, but with no ability to use the force, which is quite absurd. It's also surprising that you can continuously kill people legally without any impact on your spiritual state. Since when the spiritual world adhere to the laws of man?
    Corruption tarnishes the character’s spiritual essence. Their ability to utilize the Verra’s magic found within them is diminished.[6] – Steven Sharif

    Utilizing Verra's magic, I don't know yet what that is for sure.
    The Essence is a metaphysical energy or life-force (Chi) that can be manipulated to create what could be viewed as magic. There are different planes of existence (realms) with varying degrees of strength (of magic), determined by their proximity to the Essence. The planes of existence in Ashes of Creation are connected across bridges created by the Essence.[11][2]

    So... a corrupted fighter couldn't care less for that? :#
    Any form of changeling or shape shifting that's capable is done so through the Essence. There’s a few ways that a soul can become attuned to a specific type of magic in manipulating the Essence; and overtime as you manipulate the Essence in the same way, your soul can start to develop a tendency to gravitate towards that type of magic. So in that sense- those shape shifters and/or changelings that are capable of changing their form- they do so because they have mastered to a degree that type of magic; and their souls have become attuned to that type of magic.[15] – Steven Sharif

    So, corruption would block you from touching the Essence and then you would be less and less powerful?
    Maybe...

    Well it’s for Intrepid to clarify. There’s just too much missing information.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    The arena system may support cross-server combat. Arena should be viable for pvp at any time. It's instances and not open world but pvp is pvp.

    Arena is fine, but that's a not thing at all for most people, also not owpvp as you stated.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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