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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Trash talk the Corruptin system
Arya_Yeshe
Member
Let's friendly trash talk this system, we can do this without being asses, I am sure of it!
Bear with me,
There are many comments across various topics where people wonder about potential exploits or circumvention of game mechanics, as well as other dissatisfactions such as how looting and rights on PK loot will work. There are also debates about what constitutes fair PK and when it becomes "griefing", as well as the possibility of having too few PKs which could make bounty hunting unengaging and a dead end in the game
I've been asking myself the question "Why are there so many inquiries?" and I've finally realized that it is because the system is unnatural, unintuitive, and based on nothing but hatred towards PKs. It is a system which creates no content, no personal stories, no benefits for the node, no benefits for their victims and so on, nothing good comes from this system. The whole idea behind the system is corny.
Corny is the right word for today's model.
AoC has a political and node systems, but the corruption system is "spiritual" thing, it is a fiasco since the corruption system has no synergy with the other systems, it is just a boring dead end for the pks, victims and bounty hunters.
If the bounty hunter catches/kill them then they should face:
Letting the PK do his little PvE for cleansing is just weird, dude just go harvest some flowers and kill some creatures around his freehold and he is clean again.
Well, the whole problem is this conundrum of "spiritual corruption", spiritual corruption should not make players puny, maybe they could take a bit of dampening in PvP against greens only, but they should purify their sins working for the community or the node!
Stats dampening should only be effective when the corrupted starts agression against a green player.
In today's model the corrupted player works for himself and purify his sins!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Bear with me,
There are many comments across various topics where people wonder about potential exploits or circumvention of game mechanics, as well as other dissatisfactions such as how looting and rights on PK loot will work. There are also debates about what constitutes fair PK and when it becomes "griefing", as well as the possibility of having too few PKs which could make bounty hunting unengaging and a dead end in the game
I've been asking myself the question "Why are there so many inquiries?" and I've finally realized that it is because the system is unnatural, unintuitive, and based on nothing but hatred towards PKs. It is a system which creates no content, no personal stories, no benefits for the node, no benefits for their victims and so on, nothing good comes from this system. The whole idea behind the system is corny.
Corny is the right word for today's model.
AoC has a political and node systems, but the corruption system is "spiritual" thing, it is a fiasco since the corruption system has no synergy with the other systems, it is just a boring dead end for the pks, victims and bounty hunters.
If the bounty hunter catches/kill them then they should face:
- fines and bails: node policies
- community service: repair walls, defend caravans, kill public enemies, kill node war targets
- imprisonment: node should build structures and keep them there for some time
- slavery: make them harvest rocks, lumber or any resources for the node and victims
- face execution
Letting the PK do his little PvE for cleansing is just weird, dude just go harvest some flowers and kill some creatures around his freehold and he is clean again.
Well, the whole problem is this conundrum of "spiritual corruption", spiritual corruption should not make players puny, maybe they could take a bit of dampening in PvP against greens only, but they should purify their sins working for the community or the node!
Stats dampening should only be effective when the corrupted starts agression against a green player.
In today's model the corrupted player works for himself and purify his sins!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
0
Comments
When Corrupted gets caught, he will be sent to an instanced underground prison for one hour, stripped of his gear. Inside the prison, any resources gathered by the corrupted player and successfully deposited into the prison's storage will be split between the victim, the bounty hunter, and the corrupted player.
Although the corrupted player may choose to do nothing during their time in prison, it is still an open PvP area. The corrupted player should have a share on these resources, otherwise no one will harvest anything.
AoC class wish: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/422108#Comment_422108
While I agree that there should be consequences for corruption, the current system is ineffective, unengaging, and lacks creativity. The punishment is excessive and almost renders the system pointless.
Perhaps enslaving the corrupted player and exploiting them for a period of time would be a more effective and interesting punishment.
The system as it is proposed in the wiki is pretty much a brain dead system
come on man, you are a PVP guy. you want to make people never pk. lol
When a corrupted player is caught, they would be placed in a cage and used as a training dummy for fiifteen minutes or until they die. During this time, all of their attacks would deal only 1 damage.
PVP is survival of the fittest and those who get PK'd are not fit.
That's why anti-PKing/honor PK was a thing in Asherons Call. Honor PKs like me only fought people I knew I wouldn't absolutely shit on, but I'd go out of my way to teach others how to defend themselves at the bare minimum.
It's protecting people from e-Darwinism, I'm not going to mince words. I do not have a hatred for casuals, I go out of my way to protect them, their lack of whatever it is that they don't want to fight is okay. Especially when all they want to do is craft and hang out, some of my best friends in gaming were just PvE nerds who'd NEVER flag with me.
So I agree with your sentiment.
It's going to be if the morality police keep trying to go around and gatekeep everything about the genre they love and push out everything they don't. I just wish some people would quit being pusillanimous' about it and just admit it.
Obviously for those reading it only applies to those whom it offends, because they're probably the person I'm referring to.
Yeah, the current on paper version of the corruption system offers nothing back to the game. It's definitely parasitic design, I hope it gets fleshed out.
It's nature and nature cannot be corrupted only altered. Too much hand holding isn't going to help the genre any. in PvP survival of the fittest is a thing and the corruption system is incomplete and doesn't feedback into the game.
Hopefully they flesh it out more.
Yes! The direction the corruption system is taking brings nothing back to the community and it even severs content.
Although I recognize that my perspective on consequences may be considered harsh, I believe that it can be more engaging and beneficial for all parties involved, including the victims, the bounty hunters, and even the PKs.
Harsher consequences for those caught then bounty hunters would have greater motivation to hunt them down, and PKs would have a a lot of fun in being "hard criminals."... put the corrupted in shackles and make them work to purify their souls.
I think that the consequences should be harsher ONLY if you are caught, but while you are alive and kicking you should not be punished beforehand in any way.
Yep. I have zero problem with an idea of a corruption system, I just wish it'd provide a meaningful feedback loop into the game.
I don't mind corruption tying into a religious system, like corrupted people locked out of the worship of the 7 instead they worship one of the 3.
Just make penance a long and hard process through questing and a permanent mark on the players account to where after wards their baseline is orange instead of green. So every player knows that player has went through the penance process but they're not to be trusted.
Truly I think corruption being religious is goofy like you said before, it makes me thing the Inquisition is hunting them down instead of them being actual outlaws.
I mean they killed someone within a territory, that's just breaking the law.
It's really muddied, if players control the territory you would think they get to set the laws.
Nowadays you can cleanse your corruption by harvesting mushrooms around your freehold, harvesting for yourself....
Also, if I kill someone in a guild war then it is a legal kill... since when the law of the man has anything to do with the laws of the spirit? It's super unnatural and has loopholes.
I say that if the corruption is tied to the spirit in a moralistic way, then you should do "good deeds" for others and cleanse the corruption. But today you work for yourself and clenase your own corruption... WTF?!?!
I agree, the corruption system doesn't make sense. It's a law system with a religious system skin. Because you can only get it in player controlled territories.
Yeap!
Friday, the scrap gear day!
I wonder when a carebear will come and say:
"Oh, that is circunventing the system and ALSO exploiting the possibility of changing gear!"
Those scary players who change gear!
They should be banned and counter measures implemented, it should have a one week cooldown for changing gear!
@Arya_Yeshe already has some solid ideas for potential activities that would receive these modifiers.
"fines and bails: node policies
community service: repair walls, defend caravans, kill public enemies, kill node war targets
imprisonment: node should build structures and keep them there for some time
slavery: make them harvest rocks, lumber or any resources for the node and victims"
There is a corruption score, but you will get corrupted in the first kill anyway, so the PK is in danger early on anyway.
I suggested an instanced PvP Prision where the caught PKs will stay there for an hour or more, harvesting materials or maybe even crafting stuff. In such a prision, the PKs can kill each other or make friendships/associations.
[CONTENT] I also though about using the prision for making friends, that's how many criminal organizations come together.
[CONTENT] Because it is instanced then the bounty hunters won't be able to disrupt their work and everybody may profit from it, even the PK, if the PK works hard.
[CONTENT] But let's imagine that a particular very successful PK will be in prison for 20 hours and he was a war to attend to, then he should be able to pay bail/fines... the gold should be split among victim, bounty hunter and the node which the jail belons to.
See? Much more engaging, profitable and it's not a dead end, you can pull more content from this and systems like this are simple compared to other systems Intrepid is making.
Tbh if they cant defeat somone in scrap gear while they can run around in there best set well thats their problem not to mention fridays be drunk fridays for the guild soooooo it basicly like being killed by a drunk person in rags :P
sorry the crippled drunk person in rags since they also take a stat penalty ontop of chance to drop gear so they use lesser quality gear with less stats with a stat penalty vsing somone in there best set not to mention a marker on the map so people chasing you even have hacks basicly knowing where you are at all time where they dont know where the bounty hunters are or how many of them :P i feel like it a little over the top but i guess if they loose to a corrupted player under these condition well guess there a bit of a humiliation situation right there for them loosing to somone with such a huge handicap :P
For sure there will be many afk harvesters and people alt tabbing between AoC and Netflix, for sure they will die a lot.
there fault for afking in dangerous place though, in darkfall people were often quite alert with gathering cause of this could happen most people have second screens anyway so they can watch and have game opening ready to fight/run if somone hits them :P
There comes a point where survival of the fittest is just that, anyone who knowing plays a game with a chance to get ganked acknowledges and assumes that risk by clicking the login button.
But the corruption system is just there to punish the PK and then bring no content out of it... this system is meh
Just needs fleshed out.
So there'd be a parallel between corrupted players that became Red by killing people and the mobs that can become green by killing other monsters.
That new npc could give quests that would help their community and you could maybe even make it completely green. I feel like Dygz would love that kind of thing
I agree that there should definitely be a few more ways to gain corruption and all the ways to reduce it should feed back into the nodes rather than to just the PKer. But I completely hate any forced change of gameplay (prisons/working/instances/etc), especially if it's forced onto you for many hours. At every step of the attacker/victim interaction, the victim has a choice of action (run away, fight back, give corruption; then if died: come back, go to another place, do smth else). The only direct influence on the victim's choice comes from the attacker's own decisions.
Having any kind of system-based limitation removes that player to player interaction. I could maybe see complete block of green attacks against the reds and then a requirement of constant BH enforcement of the punishment working out. So the PKer would have to do the stuff that was mentioned here, but only if they have a BH in the direct vicinity of them at all times. As soon as that BH goes away - the PKer is free and can try to run away. I'd be fine with that.
As for the "corruption is religion and wars are not" - literally make a requirement for war declarations "to go to your religious organization and ask for the holy right to kill". Every war is now a holy war!
I speak from the perspective of someone who played L2 from right after release and for many years.
- Rampant unrestricted PKing drives game population much lower...lower towards unprofitability.
- Getting PKed, particularly for a new player, hurts. The PKer is hurting a real person. They can excuse themselves by saying 'it is only a game', 'it is allowed by the game rules', 'they are a carebear' or some other such BS justification for hurting someone. But someone who enjoys hurting someone else is a a@@hole in my opinion, regardless of self-justification, and there are a lot of those people in the world.
- PKing during a siege, two-way guild war, caravan fight or other sanctioned fight is different because it is voluntary for both players to be involved, which is why the corruption system properly does not punish it. Same thing goes for purple vs purple fights, both parties agree to the fight so it is properly not punished.
The corruption, appropriately, only falls when you kill a green. When you voluntarily choose to hurt another player. Such a PKer deserves the corruption penalties in the system. Personally, I hope these penalties are severe.
Definitely, there should be more ways of gaining and cleansing corruption while offering something back to victims, bounty hunters, and nodes. Cleansing should come faster if one works for others, being a selfless worker who does good deeds. This makes sense from a roleplaying perspective and as a player.
The corrupted and bounty hunters should have options on the table. If the corrupted agrees to work, let them work. I'm fine with bounty hunters preventing escape attempts (when there are bounty hunters at the gate) or letting the corrupted work as much as they want and leave when they want, only having to respect a minimum cooldown (which shouldn't be long).
If there was such an instanced prison, people could also use the association system and have cliques among inmates. Such brotherhoods go beyond guilds. The prison would also be useful as a lobby for players interested in criminal activity.
Alright, we are all agreeing with the existence of a Corruption system, nobody wants it to be removed anyway.
But the point of the topic is that the system as it is today is corny and a dead end, the corrupted player will run PvE to cleanse his corruption and profit from it. The system is very odd, the corrupted player should somehow give something back to his victims, nodes and bounty hunters.
The system is not interesting at all, also why punishing the PK so harshly before he gets caught?
Let the guy take a deep dive even if it takes a ridiculous amount of time to fix his character later after he gets caught, he/she is a grown ass man/woman let them take responsability.
The Corruption system could be interesting and engaging just by adding some new outcomes.