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Warscore: with diplomacy option + gear damage + tips for healers and boosters

124

Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't think you understand the scope. One guild can not take on multiple guilds in infinitum. The same applies to mercenaries. While I do love to fight outnumbered there is a moment when you think 'where the fuck is everyone else?'
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't think you understand the scope. One guild can not take on multiple guilds in infinitum. The same applies to mercenaries. While I do love to fight outnumbered there is a moment when you think 'where the fuck is everyone else?'

    I fully understand the scope, I have been in wars with hundreds of groups and thousands of players

    It is up to the people to decide how much pvp they can chew
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The system doesn't stand to chalk though. You want mercenaries to give back the gold when they can't partake in a fight. A war is 24/7 and the main objectives are prime time. Its not got the benefits of a true pvp server.

    You seem fixated on gear damage and only want to pay for gear damage, yet, you've mixed two current systems together with one solution which doesn't cover either situation.

    Once again I feel that the free flow game/pvp is trying to be pegged to a scripted system and I don't like pvp on rails.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    The ultimate goal is paying people for their kills, mercenaries will suffer losses and have expenses with repairs and consumables, everybody who get killed will also suffer the same expenses.
    That's part of my point. Pvp will have decay even in pvp events, so mercs will have their good gear decay. If the pay is small, then it might not even cover the expenses. And if the pay is large, then the contractor wouldn't even have enough money to support that contract (especially when it comes to several groups picking it up). And if you have high rewards - you're laundering node's money (and a guild would just spend money on their own power instead).

    The math just doesn't add up. Also, I'd rather have better game systems than just "pvp for pvp's sake". Mainly because people can always coordinate that kind of pvp themselves even w/o system-based stuff.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @NiKr

    Death penalties (mostly) do not apply to objective-based events (also called sanctioned events).[16][17][18][19]
    Gear degradation applies on death during Caravan PvP.[17][18]

    You could skip caravans but I feel the merchants will pay well ;)
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    The system doesn't stand to chalk though. You want mercenaries to give back the gold when they can't partake in a fight. A war is 24/7 and the main objectives are prime time. Its not got the benefits of a true pvp server.

    You seem fixated on gear damage and only want to pay for gear damage, yet, you've mixed two current systems together with one solution which doesn't cover either situation.

    Once again I feel that the free flow game/pvp is trying to be pegged to a scripted system and I don't like pvp on rails.

    Where that come from?

    I thought I explained that two time, the hirer would deposit the gold in the contract, the contract retains the gold. Then all guilds/nodes/people who adhere to the contract that start killing and get daily payments.

    If they don't kill enough, then the contract expires and what is left of the gold in the contract will go back to owner.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    The ultimate goal is paying people for their kills, mercenaries will suffer losses and have expenses with repairs and consumables, everybody who get killed will also suffer the same expenses.
    That's part of my point. Pvp will have decay even in pvp events, so mercs will have their good gear decay. If the pay is small, then it might not even cover the expenses. And if the pay is large, then the contractor wouldn't even have enough money to support that contract (especially when it comes to several groups picking it up). And if you have high rewards - you're laundering node's money (and a guild would just spend money on their own power instead).

    The math just doesn't add up. Also, I'd rather have better game systems than just "pvp for pvp's sake". Mainly because people can always coordinate that kind of pvp themselves even w/o system-based stuff.

    The math is people's problem, I am not their mother. People are entitled to use the gear they want.

    In a guild war scenario, the guild leader has the ability to allocate funds from the guild bank towards a contract for their guild, which can assist in covering PvP expenses.

    This is not a form of hand-holding or babysitting, but rather a reward system for successful kills.

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah. That's precisely my point. So I, being a man of leisure, can kill for 20 hours out of 24. Bob who has to work and look after the kids can only kill for the remnant 4 hours. Between us we cover the full 24 hours. Bob is in prime time and loses far more I the way of deaths. I am not on in prime time and I get most of the kills.

    Bob gets naff all and i get a ton. Thus, my situation remains plush and Bob wonders why the time is being wasted. Both of us are mercenaries I'm our spare time but it could be argued the person doing the most work gets hardly any reward.
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    Yeah. That's precisely my point. So I, being a man of leisure, can kill for 20 hours out of 24. Bob who has to work and look after the kids can only kill for the remnant 4 hours. Between us we cover the full 24 hours. Bob is in prime time and loses far more I the way of deaths. I am not on in prime time and I get most of the kills.

    Bob gets naff all and i get a ton. Thus, my situation remains plush and Bob wonders why the time is being wasted. Both of us are mercenaries I'm our spare time but it could be argued the person doing the most work gets hardly any reward.

    Hahaha :#

    Oh, that is not a point at all

    Bob's poor PvP performance is not my problem, I want people scoring kills, anyone who get kills should get paid.

    This is not a social security system, @Neurath, if you people want to share the same payment then you would have to be in a party and get kills.

    Also, since the contract would have a ranking with the list of all mercenaries and their warscore measured in gold, then you two can talk and share your payments.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Which brings us back to my original statement of ' if you make the system too hardcore, we will have less players '.
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    Which brings us back to my original statement of ' if you make the system too hardcore, we will have less players '.

    This is an opt-in
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Who wouldn't want to opt in to a war effort when the war effort is tied to guild and node? If all those people feel cheated - even the pve players who probably paid most of the taxes, then the game will get a bad reputation.
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    Who wouldn't want to opt in to a war effort when the war effort is tied to guild and node? If all those people feel cheated - even the pve players who probably paid most of the taxes, then the game will get a bad reputation.

    Today without contracts:
    • Your war will happen anyway and you will get wrecked, you will lose all your houses, your gold, your materials, your freeholds

    That's all, are you happy with this?
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    It is literally a way of paying real PvPers to save your sufferable carebear node, so then you won't lose all your shit.

    How in the world is this bad?
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I signed up to that yeah. I literally backed with the concept. It's the ultimate troll in pvp. It's worth no payment just to raid and wipe other people's stuff.
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    I signed up to that yeah. I literally backed with the concept. It's the ultimate troll in pvp. It's worth no payment just to raid and wipe other people's stuff.

    I give up, you clearly have no idea about anything, there's no way anyone can help you
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Death penalties (mostly) do not apply to objective-based events (also called sanctioned events).[16][17][18][19]
    Gear degradation applies on death during Caravan PvP.[17][18]

    You could skip caravans but I feel the merchants will pay well ;)
    That whole premise is dumb. Why the fuck would one pvp event not have the same penalties as the others. And the other way around. I think all pvp events will have gear decay or Intrepid will remove all penalties completely. Otherwise it's very stupid. The Caravan quote comes mainly from Steven being questioned about attacker negatives, cause in caravan raids only the defenders lose.

    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    The math is people's problem, I am not their mother.
    Except it is your problem because you're suggesting the system. If no one uses the system (which I highly doubt people would) - then it was a useless system that wasted dev time.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    @Neurath you are speaking all this nonsense just out of jealously, you are jealous that real PvPers get a few gold... in your carebear head only carebears should hoard infinite gold forever

    A carebear could have 10 bilion gold, but if a pvper get paid like 1000 this will make the carebear jealous
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The node will be the heart of the matter. It is better to get guilds on side who can mass a raid or five than to rely on a pick up group of random contractors. If anyone should be able to be paid its the guilds and guild contract payments in tow too.
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Except it is your problem because you're suggesting the system. If no one uses the system (which I highly doubt people would) - then it was a useless system that wasted dev time.

    It is not my problem, if you can't make a reasonable use of gear, declare the wars you should fight and so on, if you can't do that, then it is not my problem.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    It is not my problem, if you can't make a reasonable use of gear, declare the wars you should fight and so on, if you can't do that, then it is not my problem.
    And that's the exact reason why your system wouldn't work. You don't care about it working and don't care about people enjoying it.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    The node will be the heart of the matter. It is better to get guilds on side who can mass a raid or five than to rely on a pick up group of random contractors. If anyone should be able to be paid its the guilds and guild contract payments in tow too.

    I truly believe you don't have the capacity of thinking in a malicious way.

    It is e-fing obvious that the mayor will put a contract to his citizens to kill the citizens of the other node. People will use the already open node war, siege, naval pvp and possibly could even open a guild war.

    If they have resources to open a war against one guild, then they could open a guild war against a guild from that node.

    Just give up thinking, @Neurath, if you are that malicious you will never see the system for what it is
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    It is not my problem, if you can't make a reasonable use of gear, declare the wars you should fight and so on, if you can't do that, then it is not my problem.
    And that's the exact reason why your system wouldn't work. You don't care about it working and don't care about people enjoying it.

    The system is just a tool, people would have to use their brainpower and put the pieces together.

    If you can declare a war against a random guild, then you could choose to open a war against a guild that is targeted in a contract. It is so simple! You could also email the contractor and ask him a bigger contract.

    And so no, no system should artificially guarantee stuff for you while you can simply email others and choose who to kill.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The guilds are the citizens. It is likely that a mayor will have a personal guild. That personal guild will fight for the mayor om the Mayors back. I don't think you grasp the dynamics at all. A node will have crafters, merchants, pve players and pvp players. Alliances and node allegiance comes before all.

    Your system only works when there is a surplus of funds. Thus, it is not feasible. Surplus of funds might take months.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    The system is just a tool, people would have to use their brainpower and put the pieces together.

    If you can declare a war against a random guild, then you could choose to open a war against a guild that is targeted in a contract. It is so simple! You could also email the contractor and ask him a bigger contract.

    And so no, no system should artificially guarantee stuff for you while you can simply email others and choose who to kill.
    Any guild with money would just spend that money to help themselves get stronger if they needed to win a war. Especially when the cost of a contract gets unreasonably high due to the costs on the side of the contractors.

    And like I said already, your system doesn't give any additional benefit on top of "people can and have already done that by themselves". Merc guilds would negotiate in the same way you're suggesting here, except they don't need a game system to do that.

    And also, in the current free negotiations there's always space for lying, backstabbing, going back on your word, double-crossing - all the good shit from a pvp game. In your system it would just be "kill people, get money". It makes the process way more boring.

    So again, this seems like a redundant system.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    The guilds are the citizens. It is likely that a mayor will have a personal guild. That personal guild will fight for the mayor om the Mayors back. I don't think you grasp the dynamics at all. A node will have crafters, merchants, pve players and pvp players. Alliances and node allegiance comes before all.

    Your system only works when there is a surplus of funds. Thus, it is not feasible. Surplus of funds might take months.

    Not always guilds are the citizens, node citizenship has no ties to guilds.

    Too much malice, @Neurath! Are you the "the cup is half empty" guy, right?
    In your attempt to throw rocks at the idea, you can't even see you are holding diamonds instead of rocks.

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't need to hide behind game systems to eek a deal. I will make friends and alliances. Plus I will have my rl friends and my guild. You seem keen to add systems all over the place, probably systems you will never get control of.
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    The system is just a tool, people would have to use their brainpower and put the pieces together.

    If you can declare a war against a random guild, then you could choose to open a war against a guild that is targeted in a contract. It is so simple! You could also email the contractor and ask him a bigger contract.

    And so no, no system should artificially guarantee stuff for you while you can simply email others and choose who to kill.
    Any guild with money would just spend that money to help themselves get stronger if they needed to win a war. Especially when the cost of a contract gets unreasonably high due to the costs on the side of the contractors.

    And like I said already, your system doesn't give any additional benefit on top of "people can and have already done that by themselves". Merc guilds would negotiate in the same way you're suggesting here, except they don't need a game system to do that.

    And also, in the current free negotiations there's always space for lying, backstabbing, going back on your word, double-crossing - all the good shit from a pvp game. In your system it would just be "kill people, get money". It makes the process way more boring.

    So again, this seems like a redundant system.

    Manpower, people active in other timezones, area coverage

    Can your gold buy that? Your gold can't, but it could with contracts
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't need to hide behind game systems to eek a deal. I will make friends and alliances. Plus I will have my rl friends and my guild. You seem keen to add systems all over the place, probably systems you will never get control of.

    Good for you, mister perfect
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Imperfection is perfection. I'm all for mercenary payment systems, guild payment systems and mayor war quests for Guilds and mercs for money. I'm not keen to allocate tax funds when we have no clue what tax funds are required for right now.
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