Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Great point. Since this discussion has been an expanding one I laid out my opinion on some occasions already. I'll just copy them here and highlight the core message.
@JustVine Apologies for messing up
No, which is why the original post does not mention PvP at all, to avoid creating a false dichotomy. If for whatever reason someone thinks that gathering does not scratch their PvE itch, they can all choose "No" even though the reason why they think so might differ. No need to rush, we can discuss what reasons are someone says "No".
Please don't do that. That's a really dishonest discussion tactic. Your question is a different question, not the correct question, and not the question posed in this thread. My answers are for the questions posed here, not for the ones you make up in your head. Is harvesting the kind of PvE content that would attract guild level PvE players to Ashes? Yes, if the guild level PvE players like harvesting, and the system is well made, obviously it would attract them.
Based on previous comments I assume what you really mean by guild level pve is raiding. Raiding focused guilds obviously look primarily at the raid systems, and artisan skill focused guilds obviously look at the artisan systems. Most people like more than one thing. I don't expect Ashes to have quite the level of artisan skill based guild level PvE content that a game like EVE Online does though. It would be amazing if it did, considering how important resources will likely be in Ashes.
If it's part of an actual gameplay loop and not just a social interaction, yes, it would PvP.
Yes, but this question was spawned from another thread with the OP wanting to use this poll as a means of saying I was wrong when I said the bulk of PvE players don't consider harvesting to be PvE.
Yes, but I am attempting to not talk specifically about raiding. There are other content types that are at the guild level but not necessarily raiding.
Also, different games have different ideas of what raiding is. Raid content in FFXIV as an example is essentially what I would call group content.
Comparing gear between players is always a part of the greater gameplay loop of characcter and guild progression.
How about this. Imagine you are playing a game like EQ2 or WoW, in a top end raid guild. You are a pure DPS class. When you use a combat tracker to compare your DPS output to the others in your guild, is that PvP?
Note that I used these two games because this comparison is a kep part of the core gameplay loop here.
I mean, you are literally comparing your output as a player with the output of another player.
I don't know enough about FFXIV to say anything about that, but for WoW it's a primarily a social interaction, not part of the actual gameplay loop. Maybe I should have used the word inherent instead of actual here.
Using a combat tracker to compare DPS is not an inherent part of WoW's designed gameplay loop. WoW's gameplay loop primarily centers around questing, crafting, dungeons, raids, PvP, and character progression. Players sometime create additional loops and activities, such as optimizing DPS and comparing gear, to enhance their personal experience, but those are not inherently part of the game itself.
You can't defeat the top end raid content in either game without working on your DPS in a somewhat extreme manner - and comparing your DPS to others is the only means you have of assessing where you are at.
Who exactly are you to tell others what I think? I'm making this poll to find out whether people of this forum see gathering as part of their PvE experience or not. If the results are numerous enough or show a clear trend towards either "Yes" or "No" I accept the answer no matter which way it leans. You trying to tell others "I kNoW wHaT KiLiOn Is ThInKiNg, OnLy LiStEn To Me" is the lowest BS you can pull.
Why not let the community decide when you are so confident in your stance? Since you are so sure about the outcome, let the community prove you right. But no, all we get from you is claims to truth and mind reading magic.
Get a grip and stop putting words in other peoples mouth.
So, Intrepid not adding a combat tracker to the game was really them denying people PvP?
As to you thinking it is a crappy form of PvP, I'm sure you would agree that this is subjective. If we are going to call that PvP (I am not, for the record), then it is probably my favourate form of PvP.
Correct. It's subjective, hence my "IMO"
Is that PvP? I mean, buying and selling is a core part of the gameplay loop of most MMO's - and indeed the economy is one of the things Intrepid have said will separate Ashes from other games.
I know we have talked about the marketplace being PvP before - but in the specific scenario where you are comparing the price of two different players offerings, that is literally comparing players against each other.
I can see why AoC uses PvP, PvE and PvX to describe itself since the gamer community at large is accustomed to those terms. Given the depth of discussions we have on these forums, I think they are inadequate.
PvP is fighting players.
PvE is fighting mobs.
Gathering and crafting are gathering and crafting (some call this aspect of the game lifeskilling - not a term I've ever cared for, but whatever).
Questing is questing.
Economic activities are their own thing.
Home decoration is it's own thing.
What about dueling? It generally isn't a core part of the gameplay loop, so isn't PvP, right?
If there's a /duel function in the game, it's pvp. It's typically not a major gameplay loop, just a minor one, but it's an inherent and intended part of gameplay.
But this leads back to combat trackers. Developers intentionally open up the games combat logs (and sometimes API) to make this happen. Their intention is indeed for them to be a part of the game, just a part of the game that they leave up to third parties. A large part of why developers leave this to third parties is because people often need/want to go over this at times and in places where accessing the game isn't possible.
It is absolutely intended and inherent to the game and it's gameplay. It is also a part of a much larger gameplay loop than dueling (which is a self contained loop - more of a gameplay dot than loop).
For sure, that is why Killion made this poll I am pretty sure. To see where the community is on definitions. It would be a much more productive forum if everyone could alt least agree on using the same definitions for everything. There seems to be a clear split when it comes to defining gathering as PvE content or not.
Perhaps we should drop the PvE term altogether and call killing mobs Player vs Mobs (PvM) if that's what some people really mean when they say PvE. I am pretty sure that's what they do in Runescape. You know what, I think I'll start using that from now on.
As I am sure you may remeber from the PvP/PvE thread you started, that isn't even my own personal definition of PvE. What it is, is a commonly accepted definition of the terms.
But note to OP, how about edit your original post and add a strawpoll !
Tbh i have no idea what that is :')
If you just fight with NPCs, then is PvE
If you do not fight at all, then is player vs bot content. Especially if you can run a second instance of the game on another computer or GeForce Now and only click or move once in a while. I see that also a pay to win content.
Attacking a gatherer or defending yourself as a gatherer is a PvP activity. This is where you engage with other players.
If you are trying to get support for the notion that gathering should exclude the PvP aspect, then I will remove my vote altogether. And by doing so, I still would consider gathering a PvE activity, with PvP risks.
@Tearl Stoneheart
Would you be able to explain to me where the "versus" part of "player versus environment" is in harvesting?
I will happily agree that harvesting is a part of the environment, and indeed that a player is involved - but there is no "versus" between said player and the environment to be had.
This is the correct answer.
Strawpoll is an online poll creation site. Great for simple polls like this.
https://strawpoll.com/create/?gclid=CjwKCAjwhdWkBhBZEiwA1ibLmLJTmz06UEnu0hIGnfQCZJCCiXQA-A74RQQZqtkMsKElqMIrXAvA3xoCFWIQAvD_BwE
Hi! I understand the idea of conducting an investigation to discuss it afterwards. That said I have a small problem with the order you use.
What I learned for the survey was that the quantitative survey was used to control the theories of the qualitative survey.
Basically:
1- Qualitative survey (Discussion groups, debates, etc.) to collect trends
2- Quantitative survey with the items identified in step 1, to monitor trends.
Edit:
I assume the reasons why people would vote "NO" are mainly:
- They see Gathering as a supportive game system that neither aligns with PvP nor PvE
- That while they in enjoy Gathering, for them it is more of a PvP activity (competing for resources with others because in Ashes it will be open world PvP most of the time)
- They don't care about Gathering at all and could do with a different, much more simplified system that provides resources (fair enough
In any case thanks for the participation!