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[SURVEY] Is Gathering PvE Content?

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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Kilion wrote: »
    Given the amount of participants there is no way to make any conclusive statements about this matter, but what I do notice is that the votes aren't swinging strongly either way amongst those who did vote.

    I mean, you could have ten thousand people reply to that poll, it still wouldn'tlead to any conclusions other than the conclusion that the poll was poorly done.
  • Tearl StoneheartTearl Stoneheart Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    My "Yes" vote was to indicate that I think gathering is a PvE activity. Environmental hazards (corrupted areas/poisons/aggro mobs) are still Environment. I do NOT look at a PvE activity as a passive, safe activity. This is AoC of course, so there's more to it...
    Attacking a gatherer or defending yourself as a gatherer is a PvP activity. This is where you engage with other players.
    If you are trying to get support for the notion that gathering should exclude the PvP aspect, then I will remove my vote altogether. And by doing so, I still would consider gathering a PvE activity, with PvP risks.

    @Tearl Stoneheart

    Would you be able to explain to me where the "versus" part of "player versus environment" is in harvesting?

    I will happily agree that harvesting is a part of the environment, and indeed that a player is involved - but there is no "versus" between said player and the environment to be had.

    While rocks, trees, plants, fish, etc. are environment, I am of the opinion they aren't a "versus". It's the living environment that you encounter while harvesting that is the "versus". Chopping a tree isn't the "versus". Killing the spider to get to that tree is. So, yes, my opinion remains.
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    This is baiting a certain answer. No well in of itself gathering is not PVE content, but this is an MMORPG and gathering should involve PVP to regulate mindless farming, and give players an opportunity to fight scarcity by fighting over gathering nodes.
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    Kilion wrote: »
    I am quite honestly shocked how overly serious people take this topic. Sinister motives to manipulate public perception, herd mentality, trying to spin narratives to ones own end, forcing Intrepid into changing development directions - What?!

    I'm trying to ballpark what scratches peoples itch for whatever they define as "PvE content". If anything, I am trying to get a greater sense of what active members of the forum see as enjoyable PvE.

    Sure, this is not accurate science but he doomy "this is not telling anyone anything" or pseudo psycho analysis going on is way beyond anything I am trying to achieve here. I just wanrt to know what I wrote in the question by people clicking on one of the options given. It's a tiny piece of data, not a meta study of the gaming indurstry, not instructive data for Intrepid, no oppressive command for anyone thinking differently to not participate, not "the truth", just the gathered opinion of people.

    The way you set up the question and attempted to receive only yes or no answers is pushing a certain narrative and you know it. There are a million ways to more efficiently ask what you are pretending you were asking now.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    gathering is pvp in ashes. you are competing against other players for resources.

  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What's the versus?
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    My "Yes" vote was to indicate that I think gathering is a PvE activity. Environmental hazards (corrupted areas/poisons/aggro mobs) are still Environment. I do NOT look at a PvE activity as a passive, safe activity. This is AoC of course, so there's more to it...
    Attacking a gatherer or defending yourself as a gatherer is a PvP activity. This is where you engage with other players.
    If you are trying to get support for the notion that gathering should exclude the PvP aspect, then I will remove my vote altogether. And by doing so, I still would consider gathering a PvE activity, with PvP risks.

    @Tearl Stoneheart

    Would you be able to explain to me where the "versus" part of "player versus environment" is in harvesting?

    I will happily agree that harvesting is a part of the environment, and indeed that a player is involved - but there is no "versus" between said player and the environment to be had.

    While rocks, trees, plants, fish, etc. are environment, I am of the opinion they aren't a "versus". It's the living environment that you encounter while harvesting that is the "versus". Chopping a tree isn't the "versus". Killing the spider to get to that tree is. So, yes, my opinion remains.

    See, in my opinion, everything other than that last sentence is correct.

    Chopping a tree isnt "versus", and thus is not PvE.

    Killing the spider is PvE.

    However, if there is no spider, how can chopping that tree be PvE?

    Further, if chopping that tree is PvE content due to needing to kill a spider to get to it, doesnt that make everything PvE content? You need kill that spider to chop that tree to turn that tree in to a ship to sail on the ocean to kill other players.

    Thus, ocean based PvP is PvE because you needed to kill that spider.

    To further complicate the matter,what if it is a player you need to kill to get to that tree? Is harvesting now a PvP activity?

    To me, it makes much more sense to assume each is ita own activity. Killing the spider is an activity. Chopping the tree is an activity, crafting the ship is an activity, and fighting other players on the ocean is an activity.

    In this case, that would be PvE, harvesting, crafting then PvP activities.

    Perhaps I am missing something, but that seems to make a lot more sense to me.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Vissox wrote: »
    The way you set up the question and attempted to receive only yes or no answers is pushing a certain narrative and you know it.

    No and I already addressed that theory of "narrative" before, doesn't get any more legitimate by repeating it.

    Vissox wrote: »
    There are a million ways to more efficiently ask what you are pretending you were asking now.

    I am sure there are but unfortunately I am none of the million people who were capable of doing it better, while none of the people who could do it better made any effort to do it at all. It is what it is. And don't do this "you are pretending to XYZ" stuff. Like Noaani you are no mind reader and trying to tell others "LOOK I can read minds and am the authority when it comes to declaring what others truly are up to" is not exactly a good look.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited June 2023
    @Vissox
    Kilion wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    The way you set up the question and attempted to receive only yes or no answers is pushing a certain narrative and you know it.

    No and I already addressed that theory of "narrative" before, doesn't get any more legitimate by repeating it.
    This is indeed correct from Kilion here.

    It is a fairly clear cut case of Hanlon's Razor on his part.
  • Tearl StoneheartTearl Stoneheart Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    My "Yes" vote was to indicate that I think gathering is a PvE activity. Environmental hazards (corrupted areas/poisons/aggro mobs) are still Environment. I do NOT look at a PvE activity as a passive, safe activity. This is AoC of course, so there's more to it...
    Attacking a gatherer or defending yourself as a gatherer is a PvP activity. This is where you engage with other players.
    If you are trying to get support for the notion that gathering should exclude the PvP aspect, then I will remove my vote altogether. And by doing so, I still would consider gathering a PvE activity, with PvP risks.

    @Tearl Stoneheart

    Would you be able to explain to me where the "versus" part of "player versus environment" is in harvesting?

    I will happily agree that harvesting is a part of the environment, and indeed that a player is involved - but there is no "versus" between said player and the environment to be had.

    While rocks, trees, plants, fish, etc. are environment, I am of the opinion they aren't a "versus". It's the living environment that you encounter while harvesting that is the "versus". Chopping a tree isn't the "versus". Killing the spider to get to that tree is. So, yes, my opinion remains.

    See, in my opinion, everything other than that last sentence is correct.

    Chopping a tree isnt "versus", and thus is not PvE.

    Killing the spider is PvE.

    However, if there is no spider, how can chopping that tree be PvE?

    Further, if chopping that tree is PvE content due to needing to kill a spider to get to it, doesnt that make everything PvE content? You need kill that spider to chop that tree to turn that tree in to a ship to sail on the ocean to kill other players.

    Thus, ocean based PvP is PvE because you needed to kill that spider.

    To further complicate the matter,what if it is a player you need to kill to get to that tree? Is harvesting now a PvP activity?

    To me, it makes much more sense to assume each is ita own activity. Killing the spider is an activity. Chopping the tree is an activity, crafting the ship is an activity, and fighting other players on the ocean is an activity.

    In this case, that would be PvE, harvesting, crafting then PvP activities.

    Perhaps I am missing something, but that seems to make a lot more sense to me.

    Very good points. I enjoy hearing your opinion. I can certainly agree that we can get very granular with the way we define activities in this game. Perhaps PvX is most appropriate? Where X is what you see it as. In my original post in this thread, I did differentiate between PvE and PvP activities as I believe it relates to harvesting.

    Just thought of this (as just my opinion): If a low-level player gets 1 shot by a high-level player, I do not consider that PvP (simply because a player killed a player). But that's off-subject for this discussion :)
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    My "Yes" vote was to indicate that I think gathering is a PvE activity. Environmental hazards (corrupted areas/poisons/aggro mobs) are still Environment. I do NOT look at a PvE activity as a passive, safe activity. This is AoC of course, so there's more to it...
    Attacking a gatherer or defending yourself as a gatherer is a PvP activity. This is where you engage with other players.
    If you are trying to get support for the notion that gathering should exclude the PvP aspect, then I will remove my vote altogether. And by doing so, I still would consider gathering a PvE activity, with PvP risks.

    @Tearl Stoneheart

    Would you be able to explain to me where the "versus" part of "player versus environment" is in harvesting?

    I will happily agree that harvesting is a part of the environment, and indeed that a player is involved - but there is no "versus" between said player and the environment to be had.

    While rocks, trees, plants, fish, etc. are environment, I am of the opinion they aren't a "versus". It's the living environment that you encounter while harvesting that is the "versus". Chopping a tree isn't the "versus". Killing the spider to get to that tree is. So, yes, my opinion remains.

    See, in my opinion, everything other than that last sentence is correct.

    Chopping a tree isnt "versus", and thus is not PvE.

    Killing the spider is PvE.

    However, if there is no spider, how can chopping that tree be PvE?

    Further, if chopping that tree is PvE content due to needing to kill a spider to get to it, doesnt that make everything PvE content? You need kill that spider to chop that tree to turn that tree in to a ship to sail on the ocean to kill other players.

    Thus, ocean based PvP is PvE because you needed to kill that spider.

    To further complicate the matter,what if it is a player you need to kill to get to that tree? Is harvesting now a PvP activity?

    To me, it makes much more sense to assume each is ita own activity. Killing the spider is an activity. Chopping the tree is an activity, crafting the ship is an activity, and fighting other players on the ocean is an activity.

    In this case, that would be PvE, harvesting, crafting then PvP activities.

    Perhaps I am missing something, but that seems to make a lot more sense to me.

    Very good points. I enjoy hearing your opinion. I can certainly agree that we can get very granular with the way we define activities in this game. Perhaps PvX is most appropriate? Where X is what you see it as. In my original post in this thread, I did differentiate between PvE and PvP activities as I believe it relates to harvesting.

    Just thought of this (as just my opinion): If a low-level player gets 1 shot by a high-level player, I do not consider that PvP (simply because a player killed a player). But that's off-subject for this discussion :)

    I agree with your last point entirely- in order for me to consider it PvP, there must be an ability from both sides to be able to at least inflict damage on the other side.

    As to calling harvesting PvX, since that is t a very well defined term you absolutely could.

    However, my preference is to not try to.define every action in an MMO with a Pv*.

    To me, PvP is fighting other players (see above).
    PvE is fighting mobs.
    Chopping down a tree is harvesting.
    Turning that wood in to a ship is crafting.

    Each is it's own thing, but the pursuit of one may require others to take place.
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    Kilion wrote: »
    Vissox wrote: »
    The way you set up the question and attempted to receive only yes or no answers is pushing a certain narrative and you know it.

    No and I already addressed that theory of "narrative" before, doesn't get any more legitimate by repeating it.

    Vissox wrote: »
    There are a million ways to more efficiently ask what you are pretending you were asking now.

    I am sure there are but unfortunately I am none of the million people who were capable of doing it better, while none of the people who could do it better made any effort to do it at all. It is what it is. And don't do this "you are pretending to XYZ" stuff. Like Noaani you are no mind reader and trying to tell others "LOOK I can read minds and am the authority when it comes to declaring what others truly are up to" is not exactly a good look.

    Just because you mention something doesn't mean I have to absolve you of err. I read what you typed, don't believe you. You're back-pedaling.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Since you already know everything I think I leave you to discuss with my nefarious mental projection X'D
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2023
    Vissox wrote: »
    Kilion wrote: »
    I am quite honestly shocked how overly serious people take this topic. Sinister motives to manipulate public perception, herd mentality, trying to spin narratives to ones own end, forcing Intrepid into changing development directions - What?!

    I'm trying to ballpark what scratches peoples itch for whatever they define as "PvE content". If anything, I am trying to get a greater sense of what active members of the forum see as enjoyable PvE.

    Sure, this is not accurate science but he doomy "this is not telling anyone anything" or pseudo psycho analysis going on is way beyond anything I am trying to achieve here. I just wanrt to know what I wrote in the question by people clicking on one of the options given. It's a tiny piece of data, not a meta study of the gaming indurstry, not instructive data for Intrepid, no oppressive command for anyone thinking differently to not participate, not "the truth", just the gathered opinion of people.

    The way you set up the question and attempted to receive only yes or no answers is pushing a certain narrative and you know it. There are a million ways to more efficiently ask what you are pretending you were asking now.

    I tried to stay away from replying to this, but I just need to know. What dastardly narrative is this ne'er do well Killion trying to push? It's certainly possible this is a deep state (who do not like critical thinking) plot to oversimplify public MMORPG discourse into simple yes or no answers to questions that on the surface are simple yes or no questions, but in reality can be so much more if you think very long and very hard about it. You seem wise in the ways of indoctrination, however, so please teach my sheeply brain the Truth.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    What's the versus?

    pvp isnt always about killing another player. pvp is about competing with another player and killing someone is just a form of competition.

    if there is a flower on the map and you and me want to gather it, we run towards the flower, use our dashes, etc, whoever gets to the flower first wins. that's the competition. if I kill you before you gather the flower, that is also competition. if I have my guild waiting for the flower to spawn, to get it and prevent others from getting it, that is also competition.

    if I chop 100 trees and you can only chop 50 because I took the rest, that's a competition. I'm selling 100 and you are selling 50, I'm making more money.

    pvp just means you have to compete against another player for an objective. fall guys its a PVP game. parchis and monopoly are also pvp games, and so its chess.

    if gathering the flower involved, for example, going inside a dungeon, killing ai controlled monsters, and gathering the flower, then it would be a PVE activity. if other players were involved, it would be a PVP or pvx activity.
  • Depraved wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    What's the versus?
    if there is a flower on the map and you and me want to gather it, we run towards the flower, use our dashes, etc, whoever gets to the flower first wins. that's the competition.
    Speed-running ftw!
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    yasssssssssssssss
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    edited June 2023
    Noaani wrote: »

    I agree with your last point entirely- in order for me to consider it PvP, there must be an ability from both sides to be able to at least inflict damage on the other side.

    Doesn't matter if it's a 1 shot.

    Player acted upon another player.

    Just as if a UFC fight happened and only 1 punch occurred and it was a KO, it was still PvP ( person vs person ).
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Vyril wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »

    I agree with your last point entirely- in order for me to consider it PvP, there must be an ability from both sides to be able to at least inflict damage on the other side.

    Doesn't matter if it's a 1 shot.

    Player acted upon another player.

    Just as if a UFC fight happened and only 1 punch occurred and it was a KO, it was still PvP ( person vs person ).

    And yet, many commentators will say that a fight over in one punch wasnt a fight at all...
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