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Happy with Freeholds acquisition method.

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Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The reason people fight over hunting grounds is greed more than anything else. Also, hunting grounds are literally the map. Therefore, the space is quite large. There are only so many mobs one can mince through before respawns happen. I imagine more people will avoid corruption than gain corruption over solo hunting grounds.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    The reason people fight over hunting grounds is greed more than anything else. Also, hunting grounds are literally the map. Therefore, the space is quite large. There are only so many mobs one can mince through before respawns happen. I imagine more people will avoid corruption than gain corruption over solo hunting grounds.

    So, are people now waiting for repawns?

    That would also suggest there isnt ample.

    Ample means there is enough. Waiting means there isnt enough.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The hilarious thing is the solo content has ample hunting grounds (the map). Group content has no entry at all.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Do we know there wont be group based leveling content in overland content?

    I would find that really weird if it were the case.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We don't know anything about group based content. There is no wiki entry about it and a1 was definitely solo content.
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  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    iccer wrote: »
    Freeholds should absolutely be available to solo players.

    They are. You just need to put in the time and effort and farm the gold for a few months, and spend some time until you eventually win a bid.

    or you can join a guild and get access to one.

    What's not gonna happen is 50k freeholds on the server for everyone to get one at the same time.

    Ashes of Creation simply isn't that game.

    Still you didn't write why a bidding system is a necessity. You just state over and over again how bad it is
  • iccericcer Member
    Veeshan wrote: »
    I will say couple thing in regards to freehold
    - level 50 requirments to do the quest i think its excessive especially since leveling process is suppose to be longer and about the journey not the destination this will cause people to rush to 50 so they can qualify for Freehold. This also hinders artisan progression to a degree aswell
    - Should need to be a citizen for a node for a duration aswell before qualifing for quest or to bid on land just so people dont jump node to node just to bid on plots they should be needed to invest in a node to qualify but this might already be the case.

    I wanted to make this point but forgot. It's insane how so many people have missed this.
    All this talk about, it's about the journey, not about just rushing to the endgame. Meanwhile you lock out certain features behind max level.

    I understand Freeholds shouldn't be easy to obtain for everyone, but also they're Freeholds. Does that mean you can't farm (plant and harvest stuff), do animal husbandry, etc. until you're max level? In that case, you should rethink completely what Freeholds should be, and offer something to the rest of us who just want to own a house out there, and have a farm and an animal pen to farm certain resources/mats. And if you want Freeholds to be large businesses with inns and stuff, go ahead and make that a separate thing.

    Overall it just doesn't sound like it matches the vision of making leveling more important and more time consuming, rather than just using leveling as a gate to the endgame.


    At this point, I'm just going to wait and see what they do, and if they make any adjustments before Alpha 2, it's pointless discussing this any further.
  • DezmerizingDezmerizing Member, Alpha Two
    What @iccer said just above is actually a really valid point. Please make sure you post that in the official feedback thread!
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  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    @ChipsAhoy007 Do you really think you can RMT fearmonger people who played Lineage 2 against Russian RMT groups actively developing bots and running dozens of machines per person simuntaniously?

    That's just cute....
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    And bots are advancing :P In runescape they have chat GPT 3.5 bots which are indistinguishable to other players and can hold a conversation with actualy players and not give it away.

    Tbh if devs utilised chat GPT or similiar to run there own bots to act as rather realistic NPC tbh :P
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    As long as Intrepid can make sure that there won't be vioations of RMT or people blocking Nodes with proxy accounts, I don't worry too much about the whole freehold situation either. The assumption for this to actually be a serious issue is that all servers will be filled to the brim with registered and active players. If that is not the case and we have most servers running at 60-70% capacity, I think it will actually be not as bad as some worry.

    With that being said: I hoped I could open a tavern that's in some remote location "at the edge of civilization" which has become pretty unlikely given the importance freeholds have in the crafting cycle now. That's a bit of a bummer.

    Ultimately a lot remains to be seen and will only really show its efficacy (or lack thereof) during the Alpha and Beta.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • hzrddhzrdd Member, Alpha Two
    I think this is a fantastic roundup explanation. Very well done.

    My only other concern is as follows: Steven has been on record (Even in the most recent livestream) saying that professions and skills will be completed to the highest level. This will include Gear and weapons which Steven has said will be on par with the highest tier drops in-game.

    If all the Freehold plots are taken up, which on high pop servers they will be, this is going to gate keep solo players from being able to achieve highest tier gear.

    I'm aware of how group focused AoC is so this is probably intended but I think its a cause for concern regardless.
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  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    As a casual player, I won't get a freehold. No matter what I do, even if I farm 10 years, I won't be able to get it. There is no chance. Not even a small guild will be able to afford one. Logic dictates that people will join large guilds or those guilds that own Freeholds enmasse.
    How will you fight them if you can't craft the best gear?
    Why would they let you use their freeholds? It makes no sense to arm your enemies.
    So, as casual, I would join these large guilds. Eventually they will help me get gear and I will help them defend whatever node I need to.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The whole parameter has changed. Nodes have taken a back seat and guilds have been pushed to the fore.
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  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Steven even clarified that you can bid on freeholds even you're NOT a citizen. Breaks the system even more.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    As a casual player, I won't get a freehold. No matter what I do, even if I farm 10 years, I won't be able to get it. There is no chance. Not even a small guild will be able to afford one.

    This is simply not true. There are bidding systems in other games like FFXIV and even tho it takes some time, (weeks) of you looking and waiting for one to be available, you CAN get eventually get one.

    You are 100% wrong on that take.

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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    As a casual player, I won't get a freehold. No matter what I do, even if I farm 10 years, I won't be able to get it. There is no chance. Not even a small guild will be able to afford one.

    This is simply not true. There are bidding systems in other games like FFXIV and even tho it takes some time, (weeks) of you looking and waiting for one to be available, you CAN get eventually get one.

    You are 100% wrong on that take.

    Do you know why in FF14 they call the housing bids RNG? I don't consider bidding to be RNG.
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    hzrdd wrote: »
    If all the Freehold plots are taken up, which on high pop servers they will be, this is going to gate keep solo players from being able to achieve highest tier gear.

    I'm aware of how group focused AoC is so this is probably intended but I think its a cause for concern regardless.

    Keep in mind, freehold will constantly rotate, they will be removed in Sieges constantly, while sieges on level 5 or 6 nodes will be rare, sieges on level 3 and 4 nodes will happen all the time.

    Freeholds of inactive players will also be removed.
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    iccer wrote: »

    Meanwhile you lock out certain features behind max level.

    I understand Freeholds shouldn't be easy to obtain for everyone, but also they're Freeholds. Does that mean you can't farm (plant and harvest stuff), do animal husbandry, etc. until you're max level?

    No, you can still do all the processing up to T3 "to a large degree" in nodes

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  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    As a casual player, I won't get a freehold. No matter what I do, even if I farm 10 years, I won't be able to get it. There is no chance. Not even a small guild will be able to afford one.

    This is simply not true. There are bidding systems in other games like FFXIV and even tho it takes some time, (weeks) of you looking and waiting for one to be available, you CAN get eventually get one.

    You are 100% wrong on that take.

    Who can destroy a node? A large guild. Who has enough gold to get the freeholds? Large guilds.
    Why would a guild destroy a node and don't buy all the freeholds?
    It's like you saying a single player can compete against a corporation.
    I am ok with the fact of never being able to own a freehold. Not by myself.
    Like I said before, you will own one if you climb the guild ladder until you're trustworthy enough to be given ownership by a guild master.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »

    Who can destroy a node? A large guild.

    Wrong. It takes multiple guilds/alliances to destroy a node.

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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »

    Who can destroy a node? A large guild.

    Wrong. It takes multiple guilds/alliances to destroy a node.

    Depends on the size of the node...
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    Depends on the size of the node...

    I wouldn't expect a single guild to be able to destroy even a level 3 node. If they can, Intrepid did a bad job at balancing the game, because if multiple guilds live on a node, it should take multiple (even more) guilds to destroy one.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah a single guild would be a stretch but a single alliance of 900 people might be able to.
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  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Depends on the size of the node...

    I wouldn't expect a single guild to be able to destroy even a level 3 node. If they can, they did a bad job at balancing the game, because if multiple guilds live on a node, it should take multiple (even more) guilds to destroy one.

    Ok. If that's the case then, how do you distribute the freeholds then? Because you need several guilds to destroy a node, but isn't the system always bidding? So even if a small guild participates, how do they get one? There's no protection
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    BlackBrony wrote: »

    Ok. If that's the case then, how do you distribute the freeholds then? Because you need several guilds to destroy a node, but isn't the system always bidding? So even if a small guild participates, how do they get one? There's no protection

    Its not about not being able to get one, even if you are solo, you will, eventually, after a very, very long time have more gold available to spend on the freehold. If you are a small guild, you will have the gold eventually, you just need to save up - or get more guild members, nothing wrong with that.

    Guilds put a considerable amount of effort in recruiting and building up their structure to have hundreds of people contributing to the same cause, why should a solo player or a smaller guild that has no effort spent with logistics have more resources in the same amount of time? Of course you won't get the freehold in the first few months, but eventually, you will get there.
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  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »

    Ok. If that's the case then, how do you distribute the freeholds then? Because you need several guilds to destroy a node, but isn't the system always bidding? So even if a small guild participates, how do they get one? There's no protection

    Guilds put a considerable amount of effort in recruiting and building up their structure to have hundreds of people contributing to the same cause, why should a solo player or a smaller guild that has no effort spent with logistics have more resources in the same amount of time? Of course you won't get the freehold in the first few months, but eventually, you will get there.

    See, that's is the problem. It's not about effort. A guild of 50 could put 10 times the effort of a guild of 400, doesn't mean that they will get the freeholds. It's about gold. If you have 500 people generating gold, it doesn't matter what you do, the gold will come. Effort is not a parameter of sucess, not ingame, not in real life.
    It's like investing 1m. 4% of that is 40k, if you invest 1k, it's only 4.

    All I see is here is immense power for the large guilds, but none for the small ones. Even if a small guild helps takes a node, how do you garantee they get a freehold? You can't. So another larger guild can come and buy the deed.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    All I see is here is immense power for the large guilds, but none for the small ones. Even if a small guild helps takes a node, how do you garantee they get a freehold? You can't. So another larger guild can come and buy the deed.

    You are asking for equality between large guilds and small guilds. I am fundamentally against that philosophy for MMORPGs. We won't agree on this one, but gladly, I believe steven is on my side.

    Leaving the freehold thing for a moment and speaking in general terms, in AoC if you want to take down or compete against a larger group of people, you need to become a larger group of people. Make friends, forge alliances, get people together and achieve or goal - don't sit around and complain for the developers. "guilds" are made of Players not NPCs guilds are not a "system" that is unfair.

    The game has an equal playground for every single player - its your own Personal choice to not participate in a large guild so why do you expect to have access to the same things?

    That's what Ashes is all about, that's what EvE online was all about, that's what happened in Lineage 2, in Archeage, small guilds and solo players in AoC will not have an equal chance of obtaining the highest tier of loot/housing or competing in the highest content. This applies to freeholds as well.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Small guilds get buffs, large guilds don't. Thus, equality was somewhat in the picture until the most recent update on fh and crafting in general.
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  • CatmonkeyCatmonkey Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    [What doesn't make sense is expecting Steven and intrepid, with all that background, making a solo-player friendly game and allowing for the best endgame housing to be freely available for everyone.

    That's just not Ashes of Creation, that's not an MMORPG, sorry.

    I think you're wrong thinking an MMORPG can't be solo-friendly. Or at least misguided. For me, the "massively multiplayer" part is simply to do with the number of players one might see and interact with, as opposed to, say, a first-person shooter where there might be 16 players in a game.

    MMORPGs ever since Neverwinter Nights and Meridian 59 have had guilds, but rarely if ever have I found them to be mandatory in the MMORPGs I've played over the past few decades.

    Even in a game like WoW I can experience the end game without being in a guild, assuming I have the time and patience to work towards it. I can still be a high end crafter without ever joining a guild.

    Of course, some things require grouping to defeat, but beyond that I can play WoW entirely "solo". I can even solo most old content once I've over-levelled it.

    One MMORPG I played explicitly had content and achievements aimed at solo players.

    Anyway, the point is there's nothing inherent in MMORPGs that mean they can't or shouldn't cater to solo players who just want to exist in a vibrant living world.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't see freehold as the best housing. I see freehold as an essential tool for Guilds and nodes to arm players and progress players. I see mansions in metros as the best housing.
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