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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
AoC isn't as Niche as everyone thinks
Fiddlez
Member
So here's my take...
WoW Hardcore, Extraction Shooters, Survival, Classic WoW. We are definitely seeing a trend in what gamers want. Theme Park/Railroad content games are going the way of Guitar Hero.
Blizzard saw so much success with Classic and Hardcore they made them official.
Survival games,some if not most have come with hardcore rule sets,( dropping all gear, open PVP) Ark being one of the biggest had both of these. Now even Blizzard is jumping in although I suspect it will be a watered down for everyone experience.
Extraction shooters stemming from Tarkov's success(very hardcore style game) have started popping up everywhere.
If I know one thing it's when companies and investors start putting their money in to it you know the numbers are there in some fashion and they like what they see.
All I hear from everyone, Including Asmongold and other streamers is this is a niche game and it's not for everyone. Don While I don't disagree I think the degree of which they are implying is over stated, to the point that they think it might not be a very big game at all.
While it certainly won't be COD, I also think it's potential could be much higher then New World saw at its peak. Which would be considered a massive success.
I Understand that people don't want to get their hopes up and there's a lot of cynical people and deservedly so but if I am going to be real about it, the more I see the better it gets. It's like going from a narcissistic relationship to a healthy one, sometimes it just seems too good to be true but that's more about your past relationship then your current one. Just like that I think it's only fair we treat AoC and the devs with their fair shake. They have done nothing but be completely upfront and honest and currently in my eyes have the most integrity I have seen in a while and I have been around for a while.(I played UO and EQ1 a lot)
There is a lot to look forward to and don't let your past disappoints ruin your experience. Judge it on its own merits. Don't buy into the cynical majority and copy past the copium quotes. I might be disappointed, that's definitely a possibility but I am also ok with that. At least as far as I can tell they are putting their best foot forward and for now that's enough.
WoW Hardcore, Extraction Shooters, Survival, Classic WoW. We are definitely seeing a trend in what gamers want. Theme Park/Railroad content games are going the way of Guitar Hero.
Blizzard saw so much success with Classic and Hardcore they made them official.
Survival games,some if not most have come with hardcore rule sets,( dropping all gear, open PVP) Ark being one of the biggest had both of these. Now even Blizzard is jumping in although I suspect it will be a watered down for everyone experience.
Extraction shooters stemming from Tarkov's success(very hardcore style game) have started popping up everywhere.
If I know one thing it's when companies and investors start putting their money in to it you know the numbers are there in some fashion and they like what they see.
All I hear from everyone, Including Asmongold and other streamers is this is a niche game and it's not for everyone. Don While I don't disagree I think the degree of which they are implying is over stated, to the point that they think it might not be a very big game at all.
While it certainly won't be COD, I also think it's potential could be much higher then New World saw at its peak. Which would be considered a massive success.
I Understand that people don't want to get their hopes up and there's a lot of cynical people and deservedly so but if I am going to be real about it, the more I see the better it gets. It's like going from a narcissistic relationship to a healthy one, sometimes it just seems too good to be true but that's more about your past relationship then your current one. Just like that I think it's only fair we treat AoC and the devs with their fair shake. They have done nothing but be completely upfront and honest and currently in my eyes have the most integrity I have seen in a while and I have been around for a while.(I played UO and EQ1 a lot)
There is a lot to look forward to and don't let your past disappoints ruin your experience. Judge it on its own merits. Don't buy into the cynical majority and copy past the copium quotes. I might be disappointed, that's definitely a possibility but I am also ok with that. At least as far as I can tell they are putting their best foot forward and for now that's enough.
14
Comments
I don't think any of the things mentioned are the reasons why AoC would be considered Niche.
We already actually have multiple games that are relatively like AoC and those games aren't 'niche' if we count 25k actives as 'not niche'.
AoC's problem (if there even is one) is that it has little appeal to the type of player that cares about some of its selling points because it has conflicting selling points. That is what is making it 'niche'. It combines three different approaches to appeal, all of which conflict with each other, and intends to make a perfect balance of them.
Keyword being 'perfect' because people have no reason to accept anything less than that.
idk, I'm here because AoC theoretically on the macro-level claims a bunch of stuff that I like, and then keeps making decision changes that make me not want to play their specific implementation.
If I find myself waiting for 'another game with all the same core principles but done better', then it's that theoretical game that I, in my bias, would view as 'not niche' whereas AoC would be.
I expect Ashes to be about as "niche" as EvE Online, ArcheAge and Lineage II.
Where did you see a beta will last 6 months o.O.
WoW classic just plays on nostalgia for the majority of vets and any new players join it because "people are there". But afaik classic also doesn't have millions upon millions of people. And Blizz continues to fuck it up, so it'll die out too.
Extract shooters are the same as WoW HC, but even more compact.
In other words, AoC will just be different from those things. Your failures will mount instead of resetting. Your enemies will keep getting stronger while you keep losing. Availability of things seems to decrease with almost every update we get. And the game will still push people to socialize way more, while those 3 examples are quite soloable.
Those are the things that will keep Ashes niche. I'm sure it'll attract over a million subs at launch. Just as NW and LA did. But I HIGHLY doubt it'll keep 80% of those. Hell, I fucking hope it keeps 20%. I think they could live with 20 for at least a while and might then prove to others that the game is worth playing.
It's based on the cost of the beta pack and the revenue generated in that amount of time. Beta 1 lasting any longer than that and Intrepid will hemorrhage money real fast to the point where they'll be forced to launch.
So there is no confirmed date or length of beta? That is mainly what I'm checking because i don't see a beta lasting for half a year let alone months..
Beta 2 would be marketing and most likely no more than a week. Beta 1 at most would be like a few weeks i could see, maybe a month if you are lucky but i don't see it last more than 2 weeks if all major testing in alpha was done successfully.
Because WoW includes people who play MMORPGs on PvE-Only and RP servers, while Ashes will not.
Ashes will probably also not include a significant number of players who play MMORPGs on PvP-Optional servers.
Pve servers in wow always have been a significantly smaller population in wow then pvp servers. If you look at trends over time there's been a mass exodus from pve servers.
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_creation_of_US_realms
Link above shows a history of servers added. I'm at work but at a quick glance 2005 saw a significantly larger number of pvp servers added compared to pve.
ESO had a serious problem with loss of users before it went no-sub and then turned things around with Tamriel Unlimited. Had people been server locked with a tiny population, (New World was a good example of this) it would have been a lot worse.
I think there are a lot of use cases for beta that will not be relevant for AoC. Many companies use betas for stress and volume testing. AoC is going to have a high enough Alpha-2 population to do all that IMO.
As a marketing tool, Betas are great for all companies that have a good product. But they have to be kept relatively short, especially if there are content caps (Level 35, etc) to keep people from getting bored, or feeling like they've "done everything". A week or two tops for each beta.
Seems pretty close to me. Would be interesting to see the rest of history.
edit: read what it said at the start. these seem to be all the server, with a few missing. So it seems that it's quite equal.
edit to the edit of the edit: after a super surface-lvl search, the "pvp" servers seem to be INSANELY one-sided too. So in effect they're just pve servers. Maybe there's like a dozen or two of balanced pvp server in the entirety of WoW across all versions, but that's barely enough to keep the lights on for Ashes in terms of pure subs.
And considering that there're no factions in AoC, the things would be even worse, cause there'd be no one to save you from the big bad guild, while in WoW that guild might just be in your faction.
If AA2 was an amazing game, and rots mmorpg came out at the same time, that view point would be different. To me it is a race, the first good mmorpg to come out will have the best chance to define the next age of mmorpgs.
Where's your screenshot come from and is it the total number of servers added, region based, or what?
The faction imbalances happened over time and really kicked off when server transfers became vogue sometime in 2007 or 2008. Only blizzard could tell exact population and player activity per server at specific time periods.
In other words it's been the case for over 15 years. So, in theory, 3 gens of gamers are used to seeing non-pvp "pvp" servers.
We can all praise and shout off the rooftops about how our beloved mmos were so damn great 15 years ago, but that won't change the current realities of gaming. Anyone who wants pvp went to mobas and brs and everyone who wanted to play mmos are playing ff14 and wow, which are both as pve as it gets.
Yes, wow might've had great balanced servers back at its start, but back then even Lineage 2 had over a millions subs and was a very nice game. And the genre overall had way more pvp mmos. Times have changed.
Yes so you are looking at the total number of servers added, not the dates for when they were added. I used 2005 as the year to measure from as thats the period of wows largest growth. The fact blizzard choose to implement more pvp servers that year illustrates the popularity of pvp servers over pve. The 15 year comment is irrelevant as the major faction imbalances were mostly from 2008 to 2012, long after world activities and any pvp beyond 3vs3 arena was dead.
All those players that went to mobas BRs arena shooters etc want to play an mmo. There's a reason Intrepid is doing interviews with shroud and summit, and it isn't because they're pretty.
Pvp games are more popular then ever. There hasn't been any type of major pvp mmo in well over a decade +. The feature count, graphics, cycle of astonishment will make ashes insanely popular at launch. How robust those features are and how well the game runs will determine how well they retain those players.
WoW was king because it played better (by far) than any of its competitors. The pvp servers were a lot of fun at first, but the people learned to organize better and the faction system turned them one sided.
PvE-Only have traditionally always had the highest populations for both WoW and EQ.
Ashes is designed for MMORPG players who find PvP to be fun. And... that is fairly niche for MMORPGs.
Indeed.
Fun fact, in "some games", PvP servers are set to hold a lower population as PvE servers. This isneapecially true in games with a large amount of instances PvE.
a pve server doesnt mean there isnt any type of competition between players, it just means you cant be openly attacked at any time by other players, but you can still compete versus other players in different ways.
pvp servers have people that enjoy competing vs other players.
pve servers have people who enjoy competing vs other players and people who dont.
its possible that the population of players who like competing vs other players is bigger than the population of players who dont like competing vs other players. in fact, most people enjoy cooperative-competitive activities, rather than solo or purely cooperative activities.
I think even when reading the replies on this post that what people think is based on what was and not what is or could be. Which is part of the reason i posted it. "EveOnline, Lineage 2,Archeage" success is not a decent indicator of what people want now, it was about what people wanted years ago. Also, games that failed before with Open world PVP is not a fair indicator.
The market has been saturated with the same type of MMO and people want change. AoC's biggest player hurdle in Open PVP might end up being its biggest asset or draw. I think the games and genres I mentioned in the first post should definitely lead people to the same conclusion I have. People want change.
Gamers seem to want more meat in their experience. They seem willing to take huge risks for their rewards, they see the participation trophies for what they are, completely meaningless. I just don't think you can look at current gaming trends and not see the obvious shift.
Using the way back machine to look at the number of guilds successfully completing basic raid content illustrates that there is no population cap difference for pve and pvp servers at this time.
Link is below for the wow jutsu progress rankings for US servers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071011000114/http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/realm.html
This guy gets it!
I'm saying at most it'll be that length. The CS staff required for alpha and beta will be extremely expensive to implement/maintain. The way the founders packs work is you're paying a large sum upfront and while that's helpful for Intrepid financially in the short run, after a set amount of time it becomes unviable.
Once they let people in, Intrepid is on the clock for release unless Steven has money in the hundreds of millions.
Niche can be added to that list of cool kid words people use to devalue others arguments.
So I agree with your sentiment, Ashes isn't really niche. It's a call back to the oldschool in many ways.
So the real test is how many people want to actually go back to the oldschool, go back home so to speak and how many people are just stuck in some nostalgia act.
Personally, take me back to the oldschool. Games looked bad, but they where a hell of a lot more fun.
I agree. I am hopeful for many people that put money into the kickstarter. I do not have the source to validate this, but the 100k number was tossed about for people to play alpha 2. There are more backers and prob in greater numbers at the lower level pledges. So even if we lose a percentage, not sure how much, of players chances are we will have many players at launch. Will need good advertising after that and not sure how much of the current younger generation will react to the old school, but I again am hopeful we will get a good percentage to try it, because there is no box cost, just a subscription. So I look forward with optimism. People need to understand that it has been well known this will have pvp and minimal hand holding. So if that is advertised for people to see, then its their choice to play and they should expect it coming into the game. Old School rules, hell I still play UO lol.