Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Well, why not? As someone who lurks in game design spaces, this seems like not only a valid thing to use, but also not an uncommon thing in use already.
They said it's very uncommon to hear that.
Steven Shariff has mentioned no participation trophies multiple times. Infact it's in direct reference to the Freehold Update video and how they work and why not everyone will get one. Its just a philosophy. I would imagine most game devs don't concern themselves with it since this would be a pretty high level design choice.
You will also find that most people don't innovate. They have families, hobbies and you know, life. So asking them to be philosophical on the a core pillar of game design seems like a bit much.
Alot of games these days are designed around Battle Passes, seasonal and F2P monetization options like Online Stores. Why pay money for something if you aren't guaranteed something for it? It's psychology and dopamine.
Participation award in this case is a philosophical difference in how you want the game to be developed. With a focus on achievements that you might not be able to get just because you play. Some thing's will be unattainable for some people. The philosophy would be that you want to create an atmosphere or immersive experience more so then just rewarding every player. I don't consider this hardcore at all and has no bearing on anything related to "hardcore".
If we are just speaking about the mmorpg community I think niche is an appropriate term.
If we are including everyone who plays in any type of PvP game and Ashes ends up being almost entirely meaningful on a pvp side only then there is more of a chance it will be less niche.
At least in my head it matters, maybe not in others.
This is an interesting observation and one I have made as well. I call it The Crowfall Conundrum. And I think Intrepid is trying to avoid it. Crowfall had no fanfare for it's launch because he had been up and playable for years prior to reaching beta or launch. The excitement had already been exhausted and anyone who was interested in playing had already tried it out.
The Crowfall Conundrum is one of the single best arguments against leaving a testing server up 24/7.
He has money, and so started up a game development company.
You take him and put him in a game developer jam, see how he does. Now take any of his game developer staff members and see how they do.
Having a business that does a thing does not make you a person that does that thing.
Go to 13:20 Episode 100 of Ashenforge with Steven Shariff and Steven does an excellent job of explaining this notion. You should have payed attention more of the role of an RPG.
"Participation trophies" are more of a philosophy than a "thing" that's widely talked about I think.
Also, out of curiosity, would you mind if I were to ask what titles/genres have your acquaintances worked on?
You add nothing that I didn't already know before you jumped into the topic. You add nothing to counter what I've said.
I said what I said. And you can read that at the very top of this page. You should have paid attention to THAT.
Have some seats.
This is literally my topic/forum post. Also if you want to hear Steven speak about participation trophy same episode 17:54.
Just take a chill pill and stop being so emotionally invested in other people's viewpoint. Find a way to just disagree with out trying to diminish the person. Right now the better points I make just seem to make you even more upset.
That is my entire point.
The points you try to make are frustratingly absurd.
You are trying to make points on what you haven't even experienced. You haven't even been to a birthday party with cake and you are telling everyone's they are forcing it down people's throats. Maybe go to a party before you start telling everyone what it's going to be like.
The impression I get from the folks I've talked to that played the open pvp alpha is that 80% or so of the pve content was not in the game at that time.
I couldnt agree with this sentiment more. Bugs were fixed (or not) multiple times across the various code bases making for a stupidly inefficient iteration process. Combine that with player burnout and you have a terrible start to your game. If theres anything to learn from Crowfall, its that treating a game in development as a live service is a recipe for shutting down early.
I believe GW2 did beta weekends every few months in the year or two before its launch, I would strongly urge Interpid to do something similar. While it's not what I personally want, the long-term health of the game is significantly more important than my feelings.
My impression is that the perception is it's a Hardcore PVP game niche, only for those that like PVP as a niche part of the larger MMORPG community. Maybe closer to a larger scale Crowfall community or potential.
I always felt that Crowfall's launch was more or a "we ran out of money" launch. I think they were nowhere close to what they envisioned.
Sounds like something I should read then. With regards to fictional games, have you read The King's Avatar? Their game is also interesting in some ways
He has 6 years of experience as a creative director and 2 years experience as a lead game designer, plus all the different hats at Intrepid
It's like opening a bakery shop, making bread for 6 years and a random customer saying you ain't a baker because you don't have previous experience
I have yet to meet a manager of a company that doesn't understand his company. Let's say it's a roofing company. He might not be great or the best roof installer as opposed to someone who does it everyday but it doesn't mean he has little to no understanding of it. His understanding would be a much higher level or bird's eye view.
So how to nail and glue he might be hazy on but the the cost of the nails and glue, quality of them and where to get them would be the managers.
Point being in this case that while he wouldn't be labeled as a game developer. He is the creative director and CEO of Intrepid. So it's a strange argument to make that we would listen to a "Game developer"regarding the direction of a game over the CEO and Creative Director.
He excels at running a team and fundraising for his projects.
He's got enough game dev friends to be able to have meaningful discussions about how to create the kind of MMORPG he loves to play. All of those SOE devs can teach him the details of the stuff he wants to know.
But, he's not an experienced, objective game designer. And he's not an experienced game dev with a successfully released game.
It's like a muffin shop where he primarily works on creating the ultimate blueberry muffins recipe based on his mom's blueberry muffin recipe. But, he still hasn't actually shipped any of the muffins yet. We know in theory the blueberry muffins should taste out of this world, but that doesn't mean he knows how to satisfy the muffin fans who don't particularly like blueberries (and what he really wants to do is place some blueberries in every type of muffin because, to him, that is the secret ingredient that muffin lovers truly crave. His muffins are not made for everyone. If you don't like blueberries, you might not like muffins from his muffin shop.)
Well all I know is you need to eat more because you seem like a really hungry guy
Lets also not believe that the Cake shop owner with decades of Cake Tasting experience, that understands the ingredients present in the best cakes throught that period of time being in direct contact with amazing bakers isn't capable of delivering some of the best Strawberry Vanilla cakes around.
Do not entertain Strawberry purists nor Vanilla purists (Strawberry sprinkles and Vanilla sprinkles doesn't count) they already have their franchises.
Yes, this is about actual cakes, it's dessert time.
Aren't we all sinners?
I lost it.
Big lul
I'm sorry, you think this means anything?
He owns a game development company and went straight in to the creative director position, while retaining the ability to fire all other developers.
At best, he has learned portions of things he wants to learn, but literally nothing else.
Again, put him in a games jam and see how he does. I'll guarantee if you put him in a solo competition, he wouldn't even be able to submit a game. I honestly doubt even he would contest that point.
You need a hobby besides being narcissistic on the forums for no reason. The only thing that matters is how the AoC turns out.
Being in an environment with plenty of talented people around you will help anyone grow quickly. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what you think, the results will speak for themselves with the interest in the game and the content being shown.
As I've said before though on the forums you don't argue with experience, you just try to belittle people. You shouldn't be talking down to anyone when you don't speak from a position of expertise let along experience playing different types of games.
Your words hold 0 weight except sounding like a spoiled child.
I think you have no idea how management works.
Also whether he is a game developer or not is arbitrary. We aren't asking him how to install a roof, we are asking him why we should invest in his roofing company. No one cares how the roof is installed. We are going to assume that roofs will be installed but our interests lay in how he plans on growing it, his cost controls, culture and general direction. We will want to see Business plans.Do you think a roofer would ANY idea where to even start?
I imagine that in his time with Intrepid he has had a crash course in game development and honestly as far as they goes, that's what hiring is for and his most recent hire shows he understands that. He at this point will still have a far better understanding then you probably give him credit for but also that doesn't even matter. All of this has 0 relevance.
Steven Shariff is the creative director and CEO. The entire direction of the game is in his hands. Vision wise and financially. So the direction of the game is ultimately his and arguing about how that gets done is a waste of time. Remember this was in reference to the use of "participation trophy" and someone claiming it can only be a pejoretive as opposed to a philosophy in the direction of the game. So stop trying to dismiss people as if that's a valid way of making an argument.
Saying Steven is not a game developer when that's his literal job is one of the most .. ridiculous things I've heard you say, and that's something
maybe you are under the impression that only people that can code are game developers lol
Not gonna lie... my feelings are a little hurt. I have been working at this.