Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
You may note that I said "close to all gear" - that said, loot drops on incomplete test builds are not intended to be reflective of the finished game. I would expect a boss to drop an item, but also several crafting components - based on comments from Steven.
Additionally, Steven has been talking for 6 years now (that I have been around for) about how all gear worth using is player made. Any gear that drops from mobs (which he has said will be limited in the live game to gear that makes sense) will exist mostly just for players to break down - the expectation isn't that it be used as it is.
The small portion of the quote you are liking so much here has more to it than the few words you are quoting. So, if Steven is not a fan of developing a crafting system only for players to not use it, why would he then create a needless situation in his game where large portions of the playerbase have no acces to crafted gear for 20 levels?
Because that is what we are talking about.
The livestreams are yes incomplete snippets of the game, but they wouldn't be putting it in the livestream if it wasn't intended in the game. Therfore it is a credible evidencial source to support my point.
Steven clearly wants crafting to be where you get the best gear, he says that in the quote. He also, I think, is suggesting that other gear won't be as good as crafted gear. This isn't saying all gear will be crafted is it. What it is saying is that he's trying to incentivize you to get crafted gear, which is fine.
I'm assuming the 20 levels is from T3 to 4/5? I asked a question similar for the upcoming livestream as I am unsure what the gear gap is there.
I think that is generally besides the point I was trying to make in this post. I was arguing that design choices being made would better be discussed in the frame of what actually is known or make informative, for the designer useful statements based on laid out possible scenarios (plural because focusing only on the best or worst case is not productive). To that purpose I did not bother with "objectively good / bad", first because "objective" good or bad does not exist imo, but mostly because for the game designers the information that counts is much simpler: Will enough people play it or not.Espeicially so when, like in Intrrepids case there is a specific vision laid out. And I don't know what it looks like to you, but to me it seems like Steven is perfectly willing to sacrifice higher player numbers for sticking to his vision, which leads me to believe that goals we have to keep in mind are: "Sticking to Stevens vision of how Ashes works" and "Intrepids MMORPG has to be profitable". This means (and this is just an example) if the game would have currently 1000 people interested in it, would be profitable with 100 of them and they are making a design choice which strongly aligns with their vision and that would make 200 of the interested people leave, Intrepid would be more likely than not to make that decision and accepting that only 800 people now remain interested while they lost a customer base of 200.
They have outright stated as much in the past.
If you read the quote where Steven says this, it doesn't make any sense to only be talking about the best gear in the game. He is talking about making a crafting system that is of value at all levels, but in the quote is focusing on top end gear because that is what the specific question was about (and where most games fail in regards to crafting).
So I don't really see what your last point is about. You can still have meaningful crafting at all levels if that's where you get the best gear. It's your assumption that gear will only be attainable through crafting unless IS say otherwise, which, as I've discussed is a highly, highly illogical to make that assumption.
I agree lots of MMOs have failed to make a meaningful crafting system as you seem to just grind certain dungeons/bosses to get the BiS gear. It appears that Ashes is going to be different to that and I'm all for it.
He says the best because he is being asked about the best gear in the game. If he was asked specifically about the best gear in the game and then started talking about all gear, that would be an unclear answer to the question at the time.
Sure, him being clear at the time is making you get confused now, but that is because you are trying to apply the answer to one specific question to a totally different question.
You're just picking up on one tiny element to justify your illogical point that gear in Ashes will only be available by crafting. Him being clear about BiS gear doesn't mean he's therefore unclear about gear in general does it.
He might not have explicitly said that gear can be obtained in other ways but looking at what has been said and shown, repeatedly, it is highly unlikely that's the case and as such your point is misguided.
I have given lots of reasons this is highly illogical but you want to argue semantics again instead of the substance of the discussion.
Mostly, not only.
If you are going to argue, argue the comments made, not the comments you want ot argue against.
Try again with the above post, but get it right this time.
You haven't been able to offer any credible points and you are clearly not able to discuss the substance of my point hence why you always focus on the semantics of posts or resort to attempted belittling.
The actual discussion is that it would be bad game design if players were gearing up via one means until level 30, and then had that means of gearing up removed from them (or at least reasonable access removed) from level 30 to 50.
If you are arguing my point, then you are arguing that this is a good game design.
In relation to you wanting to talk about the amount of gear coming from crafting, the answer is "most", or "vast majority". It isn't all, but that is splitting hairs. I am not arguing this point because it is not the point of the discussion - however, if you want ot argue the point, here is a quote for you.
That is Steven saying the vast majority of gear in the game will be crafted - which is also what I have been saying, and I have been saying it because it is what Steven has said.
Questions?
I've been consistent discussing that and I disagree that there has been any design change in regards to gear. It's always been clear that the best gear will be attained via crafting. I believe gear will be attainable through other means. I absolutely believe you can have a clear emphasis on crafting the best gear and getting gear elsewhere, even though it won't be as good.
Throughout our discussion that's what I've been discussing and throughout you've failed to give any credible points to support your argument. You consistently keep focusing on semantics because you can't offer any credible argument but still want to be seen as winning.
I asked in an earlier post if I'm right in assuming you meant Level 30 being the gap between T3-4/5 but you ignored that. You again reference a gap in gear so you might want to clarify what you mean.
So I'll ask you, any questions in regards to my argument or are you going to keep trying to change the point?
That isn't and hasn't been what anyone in this thread other than you has been talking about.
I mean, I get you inserted yourself in to the middle of a discussion, and probably didn't familarise yourself with the conversation at all in order to establish context, but I honestly have no idea what you are talking about at all with anything in relation to best gear.
It simply isn't a thing in this discussion.
This is probably why you think I am trying to change the point or what ever - I have no idea what it is you are arguing, or why you are arguing it. You basically just inserted yourself in at a random point in the discussion and went off in a random direction.
At least, that has been you in this discussion from my perspective.
If you want to start up a random argument with me, go for it. Just make sure we both know what the argument is about first.
I'm not starting a random argument, I saw your point and disagreed with it. I've been very consistent in my points about gear.
I disagree with this take and you've been arguing the opposite. I've given credible suggestions and you're arguing semantics. As there is nothing more to discuss as you're unable to, we can end our discussion here.
This is despite me having quoted Steven for you saying the vast majority of gear is going to be crafted - just two posts above this one.
I'm not going to continue to get personal or accusatory as it's unhelpful for everyone.
I think it's clear we both want crafting to be meaningful and have questions, I definitely do, about potential gear gaps in crafting as I haven't seen how it is going to work.
I assume that the tier of crafting will allow you to craft gear to the next tier, so T3 will be gear up to L40 that's when T4 become meaningful and so on but not sure, what do you think it will be?
Shabooey, disagreeing with Noaani is a futile effort. He will never see your side and I personally think he just likes to type to hear himself talk. He has done this with almost everybody here. Sour grapes as they say.
I never said that the best gear won't be crafted. You are the only one that has been talking about that in this thread.
I also never said that some gear won't be unattainable in other ways, I just said the vast majority will be crafted - because that is what Steven said.
That last point, the point that I actualy were making, is why the current freehold design around processing is an example of bad game design.
This is something worth discussing
I have a similar thought to be honest, I don't think I'd go as far as it's bad design but I can't see, I'm sure there will be a reason but I'm not clever enough to see it, as to why top level processing is gated behind a freehold.
Thank you for having a brain, noaani is trying to spread misinformation on the forums.
Also welcome, not everyone is like him.
Feel free to use this (pre alpha yes) if they was no desire to have any full item drops they would be designing it in a different way. ie only recipes or wip components. You clearly see full item drops.
Don't get stuck into pages of semantic arguing with him save your brain cells lol.
And then it just depends on if he can release before the money runs out.
And then we have to hope that enough gamers enjoy the game to keep the servers running after launch.
That's really all that ever matters.
Not much different than ShadowBane or Crowfall or EvE or ArcheAge.
If you are arguing anything here, you are either arguing that Steven is wrong, or that "vast majority" and "close to all" are different. As I said though, with that post, I wasn't debating that specific point so wasn't as precise as I would be if it was a point I was making. This was the discussion that was taking place before you injected yourself in and put an end to it.
You're right that we shouldn't argue this but let's consider a different perspective.
If there is a set of people who got interested in Ashes because they were specifically interested in a game where bosses basically never dropped full items, and then they saw the full item drops from that livestream and were concerned, and Intrepid then responded to those people and said 'this is just a work in progress for testing'...
Do you think it's fair to say that those people should assume that means 'we're probably not going to have full item drops, we're just doing this for test purposes'?
It sounds like you're saying that we should base the potential for full item drops based on what we see in a test build and not things that were said originally since things can change. I just want to understand this part, not to argue about it. Sorry for all the preamble in the question.
If Intrepid says "We hear your concern about bosses in our showcase dropping full items, but this is just a test build." should players feel it is reasonable to assume 'This is not likely to stay, it's just for testing' or is that going too far in their assumptions?
From when I entered the discussion it was clearly about gear. But like I said I'm done with this discussion with you.
Please don't railroad the rest of the thread by discussing it further, it's done.
Well, my question to Mag7 above is an attempt to get it 'back on track' while still pivoting from the current direction so I pose it to you as well.
I would assume something like the loot we got a glimpse of during the boss fight is probably going to stay in for A2? I don't see why they would show that there if it wasn't going to be in. I think if it wasn't they would have still shown loot but possibly other forms, not full items.
Right, so hence my question.
If someone decided to play this game, as a crafter, because they heard 'we're going to have players make the gear, all the best gear' then see those drops, then ask 'why are these bosses dropping full items?' and get the response 'This is just a test', should those people then feel better or reassured in their concern in any way, or are those people assuming too much from that response?
I said - and you even quoted - that all gear (or close to all gear) was crafted. I didn't put that part in parentheses in the post by accident. It has meaning, and you trying to argue that I said all items is simply not accurate or acceptable.
The fact that you are still claiming that I am wrong, when you are quoting me saying the thing you are saying I did not say has me confused. Do you think parentheses means "ignore this text"?
As to your above post - full items are items ready to be equipped. Azherae is talking about a discussion that was had in this community years ago where the comments by Intrepid was that mobs generally wouldn't drop items, they would drop components for crafting items - often specific items from specific bosses.
Ultimately we can speculate, and it's fun to do so with meaningful discussions about elements of the game. We don't know how good that gear was, it was an early world boss so it's loot may be completely different to later ones, who knows.
I am just basing my opinion of what has been said and shown really as to what makes sense to me.
What do you think about it?