Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
This is a alpha nothing is complete we are all aware of that, this also isn't in relation to bosses. It is about he function of it being shown that can be applied to other content.
To assume everything is only crafted is silly. And to further tie into that arguments also tied to freeholds saying you can only craft up to lvl 30. So now effectively arguing both them together suggest there is no gear change from crafting or drops from lvl 30-50.
I seriously don't know why people can't have a level head, you can craft gear (and will be the best gear) from 1-50, you can also get drops from monsters, quest, npc shops as gear. Why we trying to argue weird scenarios?
If later on the make a comment mobs don't drop gear, or say the amount of gear they drop is extremely limited sure.
I see no reason in attempts to make absolute statements haven't even seen a showcase on crafting yet....
Yeah sure, I was just continuing to hope that you could help me understand the basis for your perception.
If you believed what you do because you weren't aware of a quote, it's different than if you believe what you do because you think people shouldn't interpret the quotes a certain way.
One answer means the thing I should do is 'gather up all the quotes to show you'. The other means that you just have a different opinion that no amount of quotes will change.
If you don't have that playstyle, you might not understand why.
Although I mostly agree with all this, the last few showcases in which bosses were killed, they did drop completed items. The cyclops, and the oak knight (where the main controversy was about 4 people completing full group content) both had item readily usable.
Yes, the drops could be place holders. Maybe they're not ready to present some elements of the crafting system and, in the final versions of the encounters, materials or quest certificates will drop. If so, it should be mentioned. Every. Single. Time.
Always assume that what is shown will be taken at face value.
Yet again, it's literally just L2. You have full drops and mats that usually sum up to several full drops when crafted (unless rng dropped you several item-worths, but not enough of each type to craft a full item).
read more
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Gear
Yes, the vast majority of gear will be crafted.
I've already mentioned a portion of this specific quote in this thread.
To me, this exact sentence should be the goal.
The thing is, that second and third best gear should still be crafted.
equivalent gear to the 2nd and 3rd best crafted gear.
also, the best can be subjective. for example back then people would choose A grade sets over S grade sets in l2, for multiple reasons, even if the s grade set had more defense.
something similar happened in ragnarok online too
Yeah, but those games didnt claim to have the vast majority of gear be player made.
I'm purely basing my comments on Intrepid planning on maintaining that claim.
If they decide they no longer want the vast majority of gear to be player made, then it doesnt matter from a gear perspective when the requirement for a freehold comes in.
If they do want to keep to that claim, players always need access to crafted gear, even if other options exist.
Thus, using freeholds as a block on top end gear is great (as I have always said). Having a freehold be a block on level appropriate mid and low tier gear is not great - not with how exclusive freeholds are currently
To be further clear, I am not suggesting a remedy here. I'm pointing out a problem as I see it, knowing full well there are multiple routes Intrepid could take to fix it (including stating they dont care if the vast majority of gear is player made any longer). Of the routes I can see myself that could fix it, I dont even have a preference - literally all I am doing is pointing out the issue.
Yeah, but those games didnt claim to have the vast majority of gear be player made. <<< that doesnt even matter. for each gear tier, you have 8 acquired by crafting, 1 from npc / quests 1 from bosses (just an example) and they still mantain their claim of the majority of the gear will be player made.
i know you believe you are pointing out a problem, and you have good intentions, the issue is, we dont even know if its a problem at all since we dont know the difference in power from the crafted gear and alternative ways to get gear...
because there are ways to get gear other than crafting, not having a fh means you get the 2nd best gear in the game (or something on par) and fh is only reserved for the 1st best gear in the game, which could be only a 5% increase in power. its also possible that the 2nd best gear is easier to overenchant, making the 2nd best gear, the actual best gear prefered by players, since 2nd best geat enchanted to +10 >>> 1st best gear enchanted to +5 and the 1st best gear enchanted to +10 will be a (very) long term goal.
we dont know if the problem is a problem until we see more of the game (or play alpha2) and actually find out if the problem is a problem at all, which is why i keep replying to you and other people claiming there is a problem when in reality, they dont even know for sure and are just basing that on how things were in a different game
Now imagine you are at the leading edge of people leveling up after release. You get your new gear for those slots up to level 30 just fine.
Then you hit level 30 and there just isnt any more gear for those slots. No more crafted gear at all.
The reason for this is because processing stops in nodes at level 30, and requires freeholds from there.
The problem is, freeholds need you to be level 50 to get, and since you are the leading edge of those leveling, no one is level 50.
So, now you are faced with gaining 20 levels with no crafted gear upgrades, because you cant craft gear without processed materials, you cant process materials without a freehold, and you cant get a freehold until you are level 50.
This is a game wide issue for the first wave of people leveling up, but is a localized issue for everyone after them
Even if the vast majority of gear wasnt supposed to be crafted, this is just a stupid situation for developers to place players in. Since the vast majority is supposed to be crafted, it just becomes bad game design.
Bro he is making up and assumption false facts and then arguing it, save your brain and time. Anyone trying to argue in game you can't craft gear from 30-49 in here trying to waste your time on unrealistic scenarios.
we go back to the same thing. i could level from 30-50 with non crafted gear =_= and lvl 50 crafted gear is just a long term goal. we are going in circles now T_T
also, adventurer level and crafting/processing level arent connected. again, its possible that t3 allows you to craft level 30-50 gear, just not the very best top tier gear...
ill just listen to mag7spy and stop, because we have been going in circles for a while. saying its bad design without even knowing what can you craft at t3 is ridiculous.
First, I would suggest not listening to Mag. He is just salty that I refuse to reply to him on anything. I think most of us probably agree that me doing this is a good thing.
Second, as to the seeming circular rotation of our discussion here, I have a feeling it is based on just a few letters difference in our thinking on this matter.
It seems to me you are thinking about what Intrepid "could" do, while I am thinking about what Intrepid "should" do.
I absolutely are making a single assumption in my thinking, but it is one that is logical.
I am assuming that a level 10 harvests materials, processes and crafts for level 10 gear, and this applies to every level range from there up. In the absense of any specific comment, it is always best to assume the most basic possible means to fill the gap - this is the most basic means to fill this gap. We need to be able to fill gaps in what we have been told with the most basic of assumptions, if not we have very little we can actually discuss about this game - this really is a point I can't stress enough.
With that one assumption in place, the issue I have mentioned is apparant. That issue is in need of discussion, and if it turns out that Intrepid can see it, in need of a remedy.
If you don't want to continue to argue the point, I don't really care. To be absolutely, brutally honest, you don't actually have a point to argue here - your entire "point" is that we don't know literally every detail around the thing so shouldn't be calling it bad game design - yet my point is based on us not knowing every little detail around the thing but what we do know results in bad game design.
My point is that either Intrepid have something major here they haven't told us in regards to processing at the level 30 range, or they have an oversight that they can fairly easily remedy. You don't know which one of these it is, I don't know which one of these it is - I am just pointing it out so Intrepid, who do know which one of these it is, can consider if it needs looking in to or not.
that's the problem with your argument. you are seeing something super incomplete, and based on your experiences in other games, you think the system will be like in a specific wayand you think it is logical that it i made that way. its just lack of creativity, but cant blame you. most people arent creative and also most pople judge new things based on the old things they have seen, which is normal.
and even if you were right, intrepid logically not gonna let us level from level 30 to 50 without gear upgrades, assuming monsters progress (too much) in difficulty (its still possible if the gear you get at 30 is not far off in strength from the gear you get at 50, you could do something like this in lineage 2 and eventually upgrade when you had the means, and this makes sense since steven said gear is just 30-40% of a character's power, so the rest 60-70% comes from sources other than gear), then players will acquire gear by other means. this is logical
at this point, your point is not even a point. it snot logical, but you cant see it because you are only seeing a small part of the whole thing. basically, your argument is: "the only thing that we know is that processing stops at around level 30 and you need to be 50 to get a fh and continue processing, therefore is bad design because people won''t be able to acquire new gear until 50". you are claiming that as an absolute truth and thats why i keep saying you dont know the rest of the systems and what things you can process and craft to claim "bad design" as an absolute truth. yes, you have a point, but its silly /facepalm
And if it isn't built that way and the issue I see isn't in the game, great.
On the other hand, if the issue I see is there right now, it's better that it be pointed out. I would hope not, but I also know that the level 30 thing is something that was still in discussion at Intrepid - because Steven said so. The level 30 thing was just where they were at the point in time of that podcast.
Since it was a decision that was in flux, it is actually reasonable to assume they hadn't yet considered it from every angle.
Again, if I am wrong, it doesn't matter, it means nothing. If I am right, better that it was said. I don't get what all the hate about this is - other than it being me.
Great post dismantling his points, though again in circles cause this is already said multiple times lmao.
Do you not play Korean games other than L2, btw?
I believe L2 started that standard of 'Enhancing' gear that was then absorbed by other games, but surely you know that it isn't actually that strange for someone's experience with MMORPGs to be 'yeah I bought this armor at level 20 and just threw enhancing items into it until it got to max strength and now it's my endgame armor until I beat a World Boss'.
I don't have any reason to be confident that Intrepid will not see this as a valid option for the first wave of settlers.
i have played a few korean mmorpg, and chinese and western. korean are my faves, chinese are my least fave.
ragnarok was the same btw, and forsaken world as well (chinese). people are just used to 1 thing because they have only played the top 5 most poplar mmorpg, so they think anything that isnt there (and they are all somewhat clones) is bad or not acceptable .-.
but yeah you are right, you can get a low level armor and overenchant it, and im sure intrepid will do something like this, since 80-90% of everything else is l2 (which is why i bring l2 so much, no point on bringing wow or ff, etc if this game is 80%-90% L2, not other games, not even ragnarok or bdo, which are korean mmorpg, thats why its unfair to compare it to other games sometimes). you dont always have to get to the next tier up levels then get the next tier of items lol
I'm not sure why you said what you said then.
But instead of starting another 'argument' I'll pivot.
If Ashes worked like BDO and that's why Processing in Nodes can stop at level 30 processing, do you have an opinion on that implementation? Like, do you like or dislike it on principle relative to what Ashes is?
Feel free to also explain why you consider it logical that they wouldn't do it, if that's your opinion.
I'd start a Splinter Topic for this but I really really don't think that one would go well, and I don't expect it to get any traction either way at this point. This seems like a reasonable thread to continue this one in though since it's philosophically relevant to the point of the thread.
Could others who wish to continue the Standard Clash please reframe too? Might as well get something out of the Clash by discussing a new point of mismatched priors.
This is the most valid take on gearing maxing out at 30 if you want to guess the worse case scenario. This is a take based off actual experience and not just saying things cause no reason or using any examples to back ti up.
We definitely need to see the enhancement system in the game and how they are looking to approach it. Based on my instincts with the game and sense of direction, i don't have the vibe it is going that route since they are trying to do more old school stuff (more on the western side).
Effectively with all the gear power it make that leveling experience much easier since you would be able to kill stronger mobs more quickly. Without getting too into it I could look at BDO and progression, I honestly feel AoC will not be looking at that kind of route in the slightest.
Still need to see enhancing and what their plans are for it though, I'm guessing it is going to feel different though.
So just to be absolutely clear, and I'm not asking you to make any assumptions here, you said you won't...
You consider this (combined with the idea that Gearing would max out at 30) to be the worst case scenario, so you would not like it?
And your reason for thinking it is not being developed that way is your design instincts, and as far as I remember you have not played Lineage 2 much, right?
Do you have any quick reasons that cause your instincts to tilt that way, that we could focus on instead of letting the Clash become about your instincts being 'baseless'?
Also, dunno if the version I'm playing is some new shit with catchup mechanics implemented and all that stuff, but Tera fucking showers you with gear on every damn lvl. AND you shoot through lvls like there's no tomorrow. I really hope this was just added in later updates of the game. I bring it up as an example of "another korean mmo".
Because the vibe I have is they are going for "more" of a traditional western mmorpg and progression in terms of leveling and acquiring gear (be in craft, gear drops, etc) and relying on crafting and having that be interesting with the market. I don't personally feel they are going to be gating progression behind rng for players between level 30-50.
On top of rng / gambling for gear doesn't sound good for those levels (that could be something more towards end game). It would also make the game feel incredibility easy later on when people just get max gear on there other characters and start one shotting mobs, if the power is suppose to be equal to lvl 30 enhanced gear allowing players to kill lvl 49 mobs. Completely wrecking the difficulty of the game, which players would give push back on that.
Effectively with that power the only thing that matter is end game at that point, filler is fully meant to be run though, if that was the case you can enhanced gear at 30 and gain power to kill lvl 49 mobs with enhanced lvl 30 gear.
Could say more on this but i feel i need to see what their plans for are on enhancing. Though i truly feel they won't go the gambling route atleast for lvl 30-50 and that being a gate of progression. Not saying it isn't something that is impossible though, it just be boring or painful to players and a early point where if people don't like that kind of gambling gives a large player base a out to leave before hooking them in.
That being said BDO gearing system is dead ass boring, not fun more excitement (unless you like gabling highs), their weapon crafting was garbage boring and not interesting. A game that would have their progression system more so early tried to it most likely will suffer from some of the same problems.
I remember this being true in TERA for basically the entire time I played it.
That game's crafting and economy turned me off so fast, it was better than BDO of course, but most games seem to just want to make an illusion.
I personally have a theory that MineCraft became popular not just because younger players could play it, but because after a certain update it handled levels and gear better than like 80% of MMOs of its era.
Alright, thanks for clarity on that.
I have read your post in detail (your posts break my base parsers, this is not a request for you to change anything about them, just letting you know that I specifically read them) and I hope you don't mind if I reference them or 'call on you' in future relative to any Enhancing paths Intrepid takes.
Grati pur do.
To me, the ideal while leveling is for every item to be replaced every 8 levels or so in most games, but every 5 or 6 levels if gear in the game actually makes a difference to how you would play.
What this would mean is that in my ideal, with the 16 slots Ashes has (I am not counting backpack, cloak, pouch slot or undergarments), you would be getting two items that are actually worth equipping per level at a minimum, or 3 items if the games gear actually changed how you played. You may get more items than that, but not items that are worth using (though I would be happy to see this not happen).
I've played a number of games with faster gearing than this and they just throw clutter at you and getting new gear is expected and unsatisfying, and I have played games with gear acquisition slower than this and they feel generally unrewarding.
Sounds good, looking forward to seeing what they do but also worried at the same time. BDO gave a lot of people a out at certain points in the game. TBH i wish in QA people asked more questions on things like this and progression in the game. People always get stuck on other topics.