Environment is great as always. Only the amount of falling leaves might be a bit overmuch.
(might tank the perfomance for some)
Combat moves in the right direction. It shows that Intrepid hires mainly people who played mmorpgs and not just made them.
Animation wise only the single target Hot is way to flashy for me.
Thinking of say 100 people all with these floating lights circling around them.
Just 2 people with them was to much for me already.
It would also kinda tank the performance in mass pvp.
I would fully remove the part where it circles around the player and reduce overall flashiness by 80%.
its a small hot not an ultimate skill.
Skill effects have to take into account when 2 zergs fight each other.
Either that or give players the option to reduce or outright remove skill effects.
Ragnarok online had the ability to remove all skill effects and it was something nearly everyone used in mass pvp for good reason.
You cant fight if you cant see due to effect spam.
Other then that it looked good.
Most skill effects were just right and that is the right direction.
Balance wise the cast time and durations need a pass but that is to be expected.
-The buff needs to last longer.
-Same with both the single target hot and the group hot.
-Shield is kinda weak for the ammount of health sacrificed.
I am not sure i like all these "hold" skills.
It would really be nice if the player can chage hold skills into press once for charging and press again for using the skill early.
Otherwise there will be complex finger gymnasic needed to keep your fingers W A S D , the mouse and press and hold something like key 7.
As a healer main I appreciate the versatility the cleric spells had to offer in this showcase. I am really interested and almost concerned to see how differently the same main class can be built considering it's the only healing class. I want to be able to build a niche H.O.T. based mobility build for PVP. While hoping my heals won't offer GIANT heal bombs as a balance. I don't want to see all clerics be able to do it all. I want my choices to matter in my build. Can't wait to see where this goes.
Very nice touch having the name of the spell placed either below the cast bar when casting.
A few minor suggestions. You might want to give you chain heal/damage spells (like Cleric's Resplendent Beam and Mage's Chain Lightning) a few charges. This allows either a long channel to effect multiple targets, or a series of short charges to either due a single target, or tab target to get multiple targets at once. Also, if not all the total charges are off cool down, a long channel will be shorter and less effect.
This will help with spell rotation, because the spell becomes useful either in single target or multiple target situations.
For balance, the quick charges will not equal on full hit to a single target during a long channel of the spell.
Further, give the hybrid nature of the classes, in some cases chain spells can hit a crowd randomly, after first target, either the spell either healing or damaging the targets depending on if the target is an ally or enemy.
To remove randomness, the jumps can more likely hit allies or enemies depending of the caster is speced for healing or damage.
Further specs could determine if more or less jumps, or how long the channel, charges, or cooldown of the spell will be.
Also, offering a way to spec a heal over time spell, such as Soothing Glow, to become a channeled spell that when channeled at the end of the spell it explodes from around the caster to give heal over time buffs to the allies around.
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
Looks great so far. It looks more engaging than most pure cleric classes I've played in other games. I love the ability to tailor your abilities by adjusting the cast time.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
An overwhelming majority should have versatility with some single and specific.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
If you literally mean holding the button down, then some but not a ton. Constantly holding buttons down feels bad in any game. A second press or some other type of interrupt is better for charge abilities. Perhaps that can be a toggle feature in the preferences.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Great. It means you are locked in far less often, being able to instantly react makes a class more exciting to play.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
The ability to tailor my abilities by changing the cast time.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Fury/Warden from EQ2, Shadow Priest from WoW, Sage from FFXIV, Scoundrel from SWTOR.
I thought the live stream was amazing, correct me if I am wrong, but I did not see a way to target my party members without selecting them. That almost makes me feel like a healer would be a whack a mole style game play. That is the only thing about healing that makes it feel less immersive. Are there any plans to allow for a healer to press a key and target or cycle through party members? ((Literally just heard Steven say whack a mole ))
Cleric in Pathfinder 2nd edition, because they have spells and heals that changes depending on how many "actions" spend on it. This is an element that could be added to your healing spells btw, you could add thresholds for healing spells (Held ones), when you pass certain threshold different versions of the spell comes out.
I really like this idea! If possible to implement this, please do!!
Cleric in Pathfinder 2nd edition, because they have spells and heals that changes depending on how many "actions" spend on it. This is an element that could be added to your healing spells btw, you could add thresholds for healing spells (Held ones), when you pass certain threshold different versions of the spell comes out.
I really like this idea! If possible to implement this, please do!!
I think that is exactly what they have done, but I guess I can confirm it in an hour or so since I'm now rewatching the VOD for a different post.
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
I would love more utility spellls in pve and cc in pvp, overall there a decent amount of hots and direct heals.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
40% specific spells
60% versatility spells
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
4 - 5 some being really long but really powerful
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It is good to be able to use fillers but should heal the more if you spam it on one target.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Ulitity abilities like mind control and cluth saves spells, also diferent cc spells from the rest of the classes.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Disciple Priest from wotlk wow era. alot of utility, cc instant spells and you have to be very cautious about your resources.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
PvP abilities since with this kit shown woudl be hard to be competitive.
Thank you for your hard work.
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FuryBladeborneMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2023
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
Overall, I really like it. While I generally don't main a healer, it looks like it will be fun to play as a healer.
I do wonder how well the Cleric will function for DPS during solo or even small group gameplay. Think 2-3 players in areas that only need occasional heals. I know that during Alpha 1, the DPS from the Cleric felt really low. Of course it was low level without much ability to spec so we will have to see.
I know Steven described that the DPS wouldn't be so bad as to be unplayable solo. But what does that exactly mean? My impression is that the Cleric will need to swap from healing gear into DPS focused gear to play solo or possibly even in small groups. I would think that a minimum weapons and accessories or jewelry will need to be carried to swap between DPS and heals.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Personally, I like skills with multiple functions. It makes them more interesting and versatile. Under the Ashes system we will be able to focus on improving specific skills and having more functions per skill would have even more impact when focusing into a specific skill.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
Held abilities are restrictive to being reactive. Because of this, I prefer no more than a few or maybe 5-10%. One is fine. 0 in a build is also fine. Or one specific function per held ability with no more than a few functions available (so only a few total abilities).
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
I think its good. Adds depth and additional reactive gameplay. Also, I really like having very different effects from different abilities to match up in different ways. Assuming there is only one heal that can be instant cast during other abilities, I doubt that it will be difficult to balance.
What excites you about playing with a Cleric Archetype?
Probably not helpful, but: heals be good
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
My favorite would be the Disciple of Khaine (DOK) from Warhammer Online. This was basically a life steal healer that used dual swords and could heal his defensive target while using many of his attacks. This was a medium armor and DPS focus class. While DPS was not as high as fully focused melee DPS, the survivability from heals and other defenses made the class far more successful in PvP than focused melee DPS classes. You could also swap your offhand weapon for a chalice to easily switch into a heal focused build. Very versatile.
There was a counter class from the other side called a Warrior Priest. This class was similar to the DOK. However, the Warrior Priest wore heavy armor and used a 2 handed hammer. These guys were almost indestructible. While I had many situations in which I could survive indefinitely as a DOK facing 3 or so players by myself, my warrior priest sometimes felt immortal with 5 players beating on me while solo. If I had a tank that could throw Guard on me to transfer 50% of the damage, I would say that most of the time I was indestructible by up to 5 of any random group of players at once.
I do think the DOK and Warrior Priests were overpowered. However, given how fun they were and Ashes intended flexibility in gear and build creation, recreating the DOK in Ashes is one of my goals. I will just have to see what kind of life steal options will be available.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Mostly I just want to get my hands on it to try it out and see how gameplay actually feels.
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prymortalMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2023
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
Effects are not overdone, Good use of chromatic aberration effects, to be honest I was expecting this:
I see you are using a Sharpen Post Process, Will we have the ability to pick & choose Post Process effects in the setting menu?
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
- How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
1 Elite.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It seems like a requirement regardless of opinion & feedback that it will be required during other skills. Which is bad.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Excites? No playing against healers in all MMO's to date is pure cancer with hint of the blood poisoning. Very accurate description if i'm being honest. They are always to OP unless you & others Zerg them first.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
GW2, technically not Clerics but they lack the ability to over-heal themselves, making combat balanced for all classes. Healers & tanks from the "trinity" are always the flaws in MMO's. FFXIV 3 sets of healers would come in second: Scholar barrier heals was my main.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
The BAD
Mend
To much delay from spell cast to applied heal & that is in a local server not a online server with a Real Life Ping applied.
- Needs to be applied on button press not on animation land.
Deliverance
To much delay from spell cast to applied heal & that is in a local server not a online server with a Real Life Ping applied.
- Issue is it is a "held ability". A simple fix would be applying a basic Regen while its being held by basic I do mean next to no healing which would bandaid the issue.
Healing Touch
- Why? Zero need for novelty heals, just make it heal when cast regardless of range OR do different amount of heals for different distance from the heal in a 360 area of effect.
Divine Flare
- Straight up wrong.
- Needs a full rework.
When placed it should pulse heals.
Zero need for players to run to it.
Zero need for casters to fail placement of it, so should lock onto targets with placement.
Keep in mind MMO players (True MMO PLAYERS) are always taught "Never stand in AOE's" Hence those type of skills are an issue.
Barrier
- I personally think if going risk/reward it should consume healers Stamina rather than HP. A more fair compromise OR ground lock caster for a second or 2 which is just as bad as using HP but more fair as the damage they will take from casting comes from other players, not themselves.
THE QUESTIONABLE
Divine Power
Another stupid mechanic taken from non MMO games.....
will test but not impressed.
Resplendent beam
- hmm need to test.
Judgement
-Need to test but likely same issues as Deliverance
THE GOOD
Soothing Glow / Flash Cure / Communal Restoration / Consecrating Wave / Chains of restrain / Defiant Light / Wings of salvation
- This is how skills should work.
Consecrating Wave
- Might be due to the speed of animation making it look like it works fine?
Wings of salvation
You 100% know this is the get the FK out of Dodge skill not the go to save players skill right!!!! note the ! & not a ?.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used? I'd say I absolutely prefer to have dual functionality and versatility because in my mind it's like asking do you want a basic skill system or an in-depth skill system and I'd choose depth every time because I would get bored with a basic system.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?I think Charge abilities are fantastic and I think the amount you have at the moment is fine, however I think the ability to circumvent this Charge and turn them into burst heals with Divine Infusion is over powered.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities? I'm not a fan of it. I think the class already has to much burst heal and panic heals. Pick one Flash cure or Divine Infusion you don't need 2 skills for the same function and a healer class shouldn't have so many safety nets.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype? The Cleric appears like it would be frustrating to play against simple due to all the safety nets and burst healing it has. I normally healer main but after this video I'm considering playing a high mobility nuker because of how powerful clerics appear to be and how necessary it will be to target them first in fights.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
A few skills in the video caught my attention:
Divine Power, I noticed the only use for this is burst healing and I'd like to see a trade off like having mend use Divine Power instead of charges for example. This would cause a trade off between do you want more burst heal with your divine power or more mana regen for a longer fight. I also think you generate Divine Power too quickly and the ability to double cast Divine Infusion with sometime like deliverance provides ridiculous levels of burst healing which is exacerbated by no global cool down on the class's skills.
Mend is designed to never be off cooldown so to utilize this skill properly you need to be spamming it continuously throughout all fights as both one of your main Divine Power generators and mana restorers and this to me seems a bit too mindless especially since it seems to only generate Divine Power when it is on it's last charge which punishes you if you spend a moment not casting it. I'd prefer to see this skill use Divine Power and give a flat mana return and heal much less than it does (maybe ~25% less) rather than Generate ~2 Divine Power at 1 charge left because that would allow this skill to adapt to the tempo of the fights (The more efficiently you heal the more Divine Power you generate ergo the more Divine Power you have to convert back into mana). It's worth noting that if you are weaving this skill between your other skills then you likely won't be weaving your wand in as much if at all.
Bless Weapon appears to be castable on at least 2 or more people and the 15 second duration is low enough that it appears to be quite a high maintenance skill. If you were to use this on yourself for mana regen it would require that you use your wand to get the mana regen stacks, whilst Mend also provides mana but requires you to keep it's charges as low as possible. These two skills will conflict when trying to generate mana as both require you to spam them but I guess this may be by design?
I don't see why you would ever use Judgement to heal if you have Deliverance. Deliverance heals more, costs less and has no cooldown while Judgement has a 15 sec cooldown. The only reason I can think of is changing target mid cast(if that is even possible) because someone got hit hard and you don't have any Divine Power for Divine Infusion instant casting.
The Cleric class feels like it lacks Utility and I feel like you lose a bit of the immersive feel for the class without Utility. For example the mage has sleep and I figured the cleric would have a purge/debuff removal, resistance buff or stat buff but maybe these things will come later. Bless Weapon is technically utility but It doesn't appear to be viable to use on classes that aren't using "weapon combo attacks" in their rotations which is hard to make any conclusions about at the moment and possibly differs from player to player.
I'd like to know if you change targets mid cast does the heal hit your old target or new target.
Thanks for the live stream and great work so far.
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2023
* How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
So far I think it would feel good to play. I really like that some spells act different in melee range. All the different kinds of healing spells and different ways to cast give so many options to the player. Not just the cleric but the mage as well give me so much faith in how the classes are being designed. I hope every class continues to get this love and attention.
* Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
I love all the versatility. I feel like it is a great way to provide varied gameplay as well as increasing the skill ceiling. It also helps with ability bloat obviously. Every ability doesn’t need to have a supporting vs damage dealing part to it, but even the changes with distance to target are great.
* How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
As someone else said, I think it would be nice to have a tap to start the charge and a second tap to cast option. I don’t know how many I would really prefer, but I think I would prefer if all cast time abilities had that option. Some I could understand needing to finish the entire cast such as a summon or a revive, but anything that makes sense to be able to release early I think would be great to have that.
* How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
I think it always feels great to have some abilities off the GCD. I think anything that gives the player more options is great. I hope we are able to start a heal on ally 1 and then switch over to ally 2 to throw them a flash cure while still charging up our big heal for the tank. Having it able to be casted during other abilities could really add some cool levels of multitasking.
* What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
As: I think it could be really fun to play. The variation in how any single ability can work adds so much flavor and freedom to the class. The ally gap closer is great. It looks like some great mobility and I feel like it opens up a few different play styles that I’m already dreaming about.
With: It feels strong. I feel like today really spotlighted how important the trinity will be if you want to be getting through content at a decent pace.
Against: I am slightly worried about how much the TTK will be increased with a cleric against you. That auto revive HoT hopefully will have a lengthy CD. Hopefully classes will have skillful ways to reduce a clerics effectiveness whether that’s of course silences/stuns, or a status effect that dampens healing. Some applied to the healer that dampen the heals they send out, as well as some applied to other players/npcs to reduce their healing received.
* What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
I don’t play healer in a lot of games but some of my favorites have been resto shamans in WoW, and clerics and chanters in Aion.
The resto shaman I really enjoyed the themes. I loved the ebb and flow use of water as the method of healing. And the use of passives through totems that you could switch through depending on the situation.
Much like the resto shaman the chanter in Aion had a similar playstyle. Rotating through passive buffs and heals. The chanter was so enjoyable for me though because it was more of a midranged class. You were melee but had buffs and heals and damage you were all rotating through.
The cleric from Aion was the real healer though. Big burst heals, but also respectable damage, and just enough CC. It was amazing in solo PvP. Ashes cleric reminds me of how it felt to play a cleric in Aion, but better in every way.
* Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Excited about tons. The last two class showcases have made me so excited for how all the classes are going to feel. Keep putting all that time and love into making every one fulfill the fantasy of that archetype.
A concern I have is a lack of the death side of the cleric. I feel it would be great to have a health siphon like ability, or really anything that feels like you are actually a master of death as well. The auto revive and regular revive feel more like someone adept at cheating death, not someone who controls it.
Some more things that use your health maybe. Perhaps even a change to the class resource where it’s a tug of war. Casting life spells (healing/divine/radiant) bring you towards the radiant increasing the efficacy of those spells and casting death spells moves you the other way increasing the efficacy of your death damage or using less health on cast. Divine infusion can change based on what side your bar is on. If you’re to the death side it changes to death infusion (or something named better) causing your next death spell to be X amount stronger consuming all your death points instead of reducing the cast time. The healing wave could become more life oriented or death oriented based on what side you’re on. Hel in Smite had this light and darkness tug of war duality. I found her incredibly fun to play.
Keep up the synergies of different status effects helping to set up combos with other classes. This is going to make group play very enjoyable finding different ways to work together. I love anything that increases the skill ceiling of the archetypes that can really differentiate someone who puts in the effort to really know their class inside and out.
Some other things I forgot I wanted to add in regards to the increased health and shield UI.
I’m not a fan of it appear at the same point as 0 on the health bar. For shield I would like them to build from the tip of your current health backwards. Then it depletes the opposite way until the tip of the health bar is now visible again.
Similarly with the added health I feel like it should build off the tip of your current health to simulate it being added. It’s likely these things were already planned eventually but I still wanted to make sure to add it.
Additionally I’m not fond of the targeted hard CC. I think this is a great spot for a dual purpose spell and you should include it in the ground target heal. If an enemy is in the center ring of the circle they are stunned. It adds more potential for the stun since it wouldn’t be limited to single target but the enemy has a chance to react since it is a delayed result. Could be great for healing while providing an opening for your melee allies.
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
Improved very much from the last showcase.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Personally i enjoy having more versatility in my abilities but some spesific use case abilities can be fine.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
Depends on the class and if it fits with the playstyle, as a DPS player i would prefer the ranger snipe ability or the mage fireball or similar abilities to be hold down abilities.
on that note, it looks to me that how the current ''action mode'' abilities work currently (hover over target -> press ability -> ability starts casting -> ability hits target you hovered over and pressed ability on) imo to make this feel more "action" the abilities like ranger snipe should be freely usable to start charging and then at the end when the ability goes off, hit the target you are hovering over. This way incase you change your mind on the target you wanna hit, it would be possible to do so. Currently it's not possible. This would work with the hold down abilities on the cleric too (in action mode which wasn't shown)
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Depends on the ability, some usable while casting and going off, others being able to be used but then interrupting the current cast and casting that ability instead. Like an instant interrupt should be usable while casting and cancel the cast and interrupt the target.
Hello, below are some general takeaways I had from today's stream:
*Editing as I missed the first 20 minutes during the live stream. After re-watching the YT upload my thoughts have changed.
Ability Icons - Nice golden theme, too consistent though. Difficult to differentiate on first glance. Would be better to have more variety in color, some matte, some glossy, some light, some darker, changes in color scheme as well.
Abilities - I will watch again in more detail. The two that stood out to me that I liked the most visually were the golden v-formation arc the cleric sends out. Looks great, and functional. I also liked the bird dash though maybe give your character golden wings while dashing? Could tell a better visual story for how the cleric is dashing around like that. Otherwise it just feels like everyone gets a dash. It should have a visual story to match the mage dash warp ability portal as an example.
**The abilities shown off that are closer to quick-cast in the first 20 minutes of the stream all function nicely and will compliment the game well. I like them all.
Auto attack projectiles - Maybe make the clerics different in arc from the mage. Could invert to more of an overhand/underhand travel path rather than hooking left and right like the mage projectiles. Help distinguish between roles.
Mage side bar - Looked slow, unimpactful, low damage, a bit boring. Understood the player was likely holding back to let the tank and healer interaction play out in the spot light but in general the mage abilities and animations need to be more impactful and sped up. The mage should look and be more effective at range.
Pace of combat - Very slow. Coming from New World and Albion Online the combat shown is very different. And even amongst itself its hard to see how such a slow pace will jive with pvp or be interesting for pvp.
Self-rooting abilities and Long Animation casts - Hard to tell without further testing or showcase but the role looked very stationary (Cleric). A bit faster from the early last demo but still a lot of windup for the casts. Many abilities could be sped up by 25%-40%.
I'll have to watch the stream again but I heard mention of jump combat examples. I hope jump combat, erratic movement and ability casts isn't the meta or encouraged in the game. I hate the look and feel of the pogo stick fighting games and that would be a major turn off for me. I didn't see evidence of that on stream myself though.
Combat in general - Abilities feel and look very soft and low impact. Part of that is the slow speed of animations both in casting and their outward release. Part is the lack of audio and/or impact with mobs. There is a lack of weight and umphh to everything.
Combat is currently too feminine, floaty, flowery in how its conveyed by characters (slow, soft, no weight).
I'm not a healer player in games typically. One game that I did enjoy healing in was Albion Online as a Nature healer, particularly the old Rampant Staff. It has a rectangular roll out green carpet ability with a hunting horn that would sound and you could throw it out in any direction from your character. Super fun to use and was one of those abilities that made you feel good every time you pressed its button. They updated the ability to work more like Rumble from League of Legends with a ranged 360 degree drop, pivot, drag and it made the ability clunky as heck since. I liked the old style 100% better. The more allies stood in the green healing area granted stronger healing per/tick for all. The other mechanic nature healers used was to spam HoT's on allies. Had to manage them to keep them all running at max stacks.
Auto Attack speed - The very slow ability casts and animation speed in comparison to the fast auto/basic attack animation speed and projectiles still feels off to me. I'd flip them. Auto attacks should be slower and abilities faster/more exciting. With 20+ abilities honestly basic attacks shouldn't be much of a thing. They seem to be used a lot (way too much) for all roles.
The slower and longer ability animation and casts take, the more boring and predictable PVE encounters with bosses will have to be unless you let players roll out or cancel their abilities somehow. If you speed abilities up you can have more fun and engaging combat for both pvp and pve.
After watching the first 20 minutes ability showcase demo, this part of the stream was much better than the pve combat latter portion. I don't think there was as much value shown as most of the abilities weren't used during that portion of the stream. A reliance on a small few and my impression from catching that portion of the Twitch stream was that combat was much too slow and boring. After re-watching the YT posted stream I have more hope for combat as more of the abilities there were quick-cast. The long windup abilities/animations for both mage and cleric were underwhelming in their effect and I thought that was all there was from catching the back half of the cleric update initially.
That mage purple orb ability needs work. Make it travel a much shorter distance, speed it up, does it do any damage? It's hard to tell if its just a debuff. Seems very unimpactful atm. Maybe shoot a smaller orb out and suck it back to you like a yo-yo. New World does this with one of their Void Gauntlet abilities. Looks nice. The purple orb you have travels too far and will cause mobs behind what you're fighting to get pulled. Overall impression is the first part ability showcase is nice, the pve adventure doesn't show off the game's combat well. That looks very slow paced where I'd like to see the game more leaning towards quick-cast and higher impact. Its very slow and soft.
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
there are a lot of heal skills who hardly differ from each other ( from time spend to heal outcome, mana costs are up to changes as told in the video)
I would turn resplendent beam into a skill that has an big AOE effect off the healer. because devine flare is very small and takes a while so party members probably didnt recive it or have to left the area.
Well and I'm hoping to add some damage skills as well, otherwise it would take a while to get through the story. A Skill for Dispell negativ effects like sleeping would also be great for pvp support
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Dual purpose skills like Judgment and Consecrating Wave are great because if you're playing solo or running your storyline/farming, any unused healing ability is a blocked damaging ability
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
2 heal skills and a damage skill seem fine to me, but I prefer not to press all the time while a skill is charged. So maybe I can type a short text message.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It's great as an instant heal, but since it doesn't take long to charge up, I probably wouldn't use it while I'm already casting, but rather to prevent someone's death
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
i like supporting my party or the whole raid party while fighting bosses or in pvp
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
back in the day Aion had good clerics and also war of imortales
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
-cleric needs a Dispell skill to remove sleep. ( or at least the bard needs this)
-i would change resplendent beam to an AOE heal skill or it works like a pet that moves to group members and they heal themselves when needed
-bless weapon should be a permanent buff on an single target
-soothing glow could have a longer duration or higher heal per tick
- a movebility skill that moves the caster backwards (for pvp reasons)
The archetype looks awesome, but i have a few cool ideas i want to share. When it comes to this archetype i would be cool if the third resource (the yellow one) would give you some kind of buff when it was at max, like 10% more healing og everything everything gets a extra small hot, but they you have to sacrifice this buff when you want to spend the resources in dire times.
And, this suggestion would probably be for another archetype but, if its a healer who is very focused on HoTs it could be that whenever a HoT heals a target with full health, 50% of it goes to a random, or a selected target. So that 50% of all overhealing with _HoTs goes to the tank, or a random other person, could be OP, but balanced right it could make an awesome dynamic.
I thought the live stream was amazing, correct me if I am wrong, but I did not see a way to target my party members without selecting them. That almost makes me feel like a healer would be a whack a mole style game play. That is the only thing about healing that makes it feel less immersive. Are there any plans to allow for a healer to press a key and target or cycle through party members? ((Literally just heard Steven say whack a mole ))
Maggie and Steven covered this after the video part. There is going to be multiple ways to target and such later on. Check the VOD after they've finished the video to hear their words on it.
Q) How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
A) Great direction, huge improvement on the previous showcase during the environment stream.
Q) Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
A) Versatility all the way. By far a superior way.
Q) How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
A) If i were allowed to move and hold/charge the ability i would want there to be just a few of those sprinkled in. So about 2, maybe 3. If it were more and i have to set all those abilities on hotkeys above 1-4 (so on 5-9 on the keyboard) would be a nuisance to use. If i werent allowed to move at all during holding/charging then all of that goes out the window and it becomes a question of "flow" to play the class. Getting rooted everytime you hold/charge would feel bad and i would skip out on the abilities if they weren't powerfull enough to use. So Deliverance would be picked up, but if Mend were a charge/hold, nawh.
Q) How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
A) Great, good choice. The more active you can be with your kit the better.
Q) What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
A) Being active with the cleric kit. Stacking and maintaining Soothing Glow on a player and when you're waiting for your charges to come back. Start charging a Deliverance whilst flash heal someone else while you're waiting for your Deliverance to charge. More of this high apm stuff that really rewards your knowledge about the mechanics of the class kit. I do hope Deliverance looks for your target upon release of the ability to heal that target, and not the target when you first initiated the hold/charge.
Q) Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
A) It's great to see Resplendent Beams' beam follow the target now when they're moving, looks great. I would love to see marks in the bar though to see if your charge is high enough to heal 1, 2 or 3 targets. Flexibility to determine what happens when holding/charging for a shorter or longer duration is a phenomenal idea, i would love for this to stay.
I would love to see temp health at the end of the HP bar instead of on top at the start. I feel like it'll be more clear how much temp hp you have left before it eats into your actual hp.
I really like Defiant Lights' reactionary ressurect mechanic. Being able to clutch save someone like that feels great when you manage to pull it off. Battlefield knowledge and knowing what's going on and going to happen gets rewarded.
The fact that there are some "melee" heals in there is a nice change of pace. Want to do a big heal? Get closer and risk your own safety.
The divine infusion mechanic sounds really nice. The flexibility between increased heals or instant cast when you have enough at the cost of increased heals is great. Rewarding if managed properly.
Again, love these flexible, 2 flavor aspects of the abilties.
In a nutshell, more choices to make in rotation make the gameplay more interesting. That applies to spells that either heal or damage, have better results on longer casts, different results in melee and ranged, etc. - these bear the hallmark of risk/reward, so kudos Same goes for casting in the middle of another cast, while it's not a new idea, it's a nice touch.
My concerns are about the 3rd resource, Divine Power. The shown usage was two-fold, either sit on it for a passive benefit or use it for Divine Infusion. It could certainly enjoy more abilities tied to it. The choice between "do nothing" (Divine Power is gained passively by performing rotation, and doesn't punish overcapping) vs. "press 1 button" (which may not even be there, if you don't elect to learn Divine Infusion) doesn't look like much fun. Here are some ideas for similarly meta uses, that don't add new healing / damaging powers, but affect the existing ones (like Divine Infusion does):
1. Ability that instantly restores 1 charge to all charge-based spells, fixed cost.
2. Ability that extends all currently active heal-over-time effects by X seconds. Cost may be fixed, or consume more resource for longer cast time, for greater effect.
3. Ability that accelerates cooldown recovery for you and all allies within certain range. It needs to be channeled, using any other spell or action will interrupt it, although movement is allowed. The recovery rate starts slowly, but ramps over time, the longer you maintain its channeling. Drains resource over time.
4. Ability that increases movement speed for you and all allies. Instant cast, fixed cost, fixed duration.
I was hoping to see how the cleric could be played with the action camera
The spells are interesting, i like the direction, the more versatility we can have on every spell the better the kit in my opinion. I hope they are not too hard to use with the action camera. I guess everything will depends on how good the mono-targeting will work when in action camera.
The Cleric showcase looked very good and I'm looking foward to see the other classes (Fighter! ) having same kind of updates with the same quality!
I really loved the spell designs and those golden and violet colors fit perfectly for Cleric spells! I can't wait to see how Cleric works as Shaman (Cleric + Summoner) and it would be cool to have an option to change the spell colors into green to have a little bit different vibe when playing as "nature" themed Shaman. In my opinion gold and violet colors work fantasticly with "holy" themed Clerics but optional green color (maybe with some light blue) would fit better with playing as Shaman.
Overall this update looked very good and Cleric is moving into good direction. I'm still waiting some other biomes than Riverlands but take all the time you need to finish them! 👍
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
• Really intrigued. I love healing in other games and you are definitely grabbing my attention.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
•Defiinitely a bit of both i think. I want those standard backbone types of heal that work how you expect.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
•Very few, but it depends. When there is not a clear beginning and end it might feel unsatisfied, atleast is has not felt very good in other games. A good example of a good channel/hold was the "Mend" ability in the preview. During its full channel (if you cast all charges) it's constantly happening something and even if you get interuppted you have still achived something. Imagine holding down the charge heal for 4 sec and you get interuppted at 3.5 sec and wasted all that time, bleh!
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
• As I said i love healing and the responsibility that comes with it. I love actively doing something during combat. I both like the lowkey pve chill scenarios when healing and the brutally high stakes pvp fights. Having an arsenal of abilities and stuff to do in both scenarios makes for a really fun time.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
• I have to say warhammer online was the mmo that really made me love healing. The constant need of me to heal someone on the open pvp zones whether they were in my party or just an ally.
Warhammer also had super fun healing classes and abilites.
For example an oh shit ability called siphon i think were you damage everyone around you and for the damage done you heal everyone in your party. You would time that for when the enemy used their ultimate types of abilities. Super scary and you would need fast reaction and have good positioning, exactly what i love about the healing class.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
• Im excited about feeling like a can always be in my healing spec and still be useful to people around me and not only people in my party.
Im also excited about how all the abilites is gonna feel. Like the mend ability looked super nice with how you "threw" a bolt of light to an ally.
• Im concerned about the mana system. I have not played a fun healing class in any game where there were a slow draining big pool of resource. I much prefer you haveing to actively do something to keep your resources up. Like in warhammer. One class had to regain resource by putting a drain on an enemy that took resource from them and gave it to you. Another class had to damage enemies in between their heals. Much more fun to have better control over your mana or whatever and not just watch it slowly drain away and when empty you are a fish in a barrel, boooring.
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
There's work to be done and many thoughts about it have to be reserved until we know more about other archetypes and classes, but at a glance, it looks great!
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
I dramatically prefer abilities that have versatile/multiple usages. It leads to decision-making with benefits and sacrifices when you choose one of an ability's options over the other and reduces the need for a greater number of abilities (I personally enjoy fewer abilities with greater distinction rather than a ton of abilities that are functionally similar and only exist to serve as part of a rotation). So long as it makes sense (and all of the showcased abilities did) the more the merrier. I'd even prefer if every single ability worked similarly so long as it's done in a way that makes sense.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
I don't have a preference so long as each ability with that quality has it for a specific reason, not just to increase the number of held abilities.
If held abilities can contribute to the versatility (which has the advantages I described above among others) of abilities, then I'm all for them.
Note, that I'll be playing on an orb-weaver or a controller, so I won't experience the mechanical drawbacks of held abilities. I understand some people not preferring them for that reason.
Edit: Wanted to add - If there is going to be many held abilities, I wouldn't want them all to make you stationary and having more abilities you can use while charging (like flash cure) would be needed so you aren't just sitting there holding a button and waiting, there are other things you can do (movement/abilities). I'm imagining something like a held ability for tank which generates threat while being held and then unleashes an attack that does more damage the more times he got hit while holding. Wouldn't need to restrict his movement much/at all.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It has a unique function, so as long as it ends up being balanced well I think it's a cool and powerful option to have. With held abilities being a thing, these kinds of abilities fit nicely. Maybe should be reserved for heavily heal-invested builds. I know balancing is for later though.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Cleric is not my favorite style of healer but it looks fun and I imagine those who like that kind of healing will have a blast with this. I think they'll definitely feel needed by and valuable to any team, which at the core is what healers love.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
I've mostly played other styles of healers so I don't have strong preferences here.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
I'm excited to see how augments affect the cleric gameplay and how choosing cleric as a secondary class will affect other archetypes.
I'm concerned about counterplay against and as the cleric. The heals seem extremely strong, and I imagine anyone attempting to kill a cleric would need cc's to prevent them from flying away, on top of healing output/receiving debuffs to prevent them from healing all damage. Hopefully, the cleric would have ways to mitigate those kinds of threats as well. I love trump cards trumping trump cards, so the more layered counterplay the better in my mind.
Perhaps aura debuffs that limit incoming healing would be necessary too for large-scale pvp with lots of healing going around. I just hope that counterplay is possible and rewarding both as and against the cleric.
Some other thoughts:
I'll avoid tuning topics like "Why is the cleansing wave charge time so small for such a big effect compared to the tap/single target version?" or about mana regeneration. Those and others are issues, but I know the game needs tuning and iterations and this isn't the time or place for too many details about that.
Limited Starting Healers
My biggest concern isn't so much with the cleric itself which looks like it's heading in an amazing direction, but with the limited options for starting out as a healer. The cleric looks great, but it being the only healing option to start the game with feels like a missed opportunity. I'm imagining them being mandatory for difficult content below the level where you can choose a class (30 was it?). And for anyone who wants to be a healer but doesn't want to be this kind of healer, they're out of luck until they reach that level. It feels strange to start with holy magic and then suddenly at level 30 to potentially turn to some darkside. I wish we had those options from the start so that you could live something resembling the kind of fantasy character you want from the start instead of arbitrarily becoming it once a level threshold is reached.
Hybrid Combat and Controllers
I feel like the hybrid combat is kind of in an awkward place because the vast number of abilities are tab targeted, but then you have one ability that is a ground target. I personally wish that the combat leaned more heavily on action, but simultaneously I know that many of my friends will not play a game if it doesn't support playing with a controller and the only action abilities I've seen so far is the hallowed ground (on cleric, I know there may be some on mage too but I haven't checked that out as extensively) and the basic sword swings. The ground targets are very bad for controllers. Since it's mostly tab target anyway, could you make an option to have that appear on a selected ally instead of having to aim it? Sword swings and even some skill shots can be fine on a controller, but ground targeting is awful so it feels like a shame to have the only action-oriented abilities be the most controller-unfriendly kind. That wouldn't even impact me personally except when I'm feeling lazy and play on the couch, but so many people, and my friends in particular, won't play if it feels bad to play on a controller. Please develop controller support!
Edit 2: I missed Consecrating Wave. This is the type of action ability I'd like to see the most of. Action, but directional instead of ground targeted. My bad for missing that! It's a great ability I'd love to see more like it.
Ally/Enemy targetting
I love the idea of separate targeting for allies and enemies. Please implement that! It's a great idea.
Final Thoughts:
All in all, it looks great for Alpha; keep up the good work!
I don't normally post much on forums, but I felt it was important to say something on the subject of this archetype, as I'm concerned that this might spill over into other archetypes.
Briefly about myself: Since the 2005 release, I have levelled as an Undead as a Holy Priest and was used as the main healer until the end of Wrath of the Lich King in all raids. I also popped into other games as a healer in between and I'll go into that a bit later.
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
In principle, the basic tone of the class is good. There were some great skills that read great, were clearly explained by the staff and were easy to understand. The conclusion in the video as possible gameplay pretty much sums up what to expect. As with previous videos, I ask that you keep this style of presentation as it gave me a clear picture of this archetype, even in the development phase.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Personally, I prefer skills that are primarily straightforward and self-explanatory. For example, I don't have a problem with a DoT (damage over time) doing damage to the target and the attacker getting back resources like mana in the process. But in general, an ability should always have a clear target, be it friend, foe, itself or terrain (ground).
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
The number should be 0. As for held abilities, I am not one for it. I don't think much of this playstyle, as I've seen and played it as an evoker in other MMORPGs like WoW, and it felt very sluggish to me. I also got this impression from the video shown, while everything in combat seemed organic, the holding skills seemed clunky and out of place. Even when it comes to toggleable skills, I see it similarly, namely that they are out of place for me.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
I personally prefer Flash Cure not to be on a global cooldown. But it should also not be able to be used while using other spells.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
What excites me about playing as a healer class is the role of healer and supporter. Since Dark Age of Camelot, I love being the judge of life and death and keeping my party members alive. It always feels rewarding to me when I see at the end that I have kept them all alive, even if it has cost me a grey hair or two in my career.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
WoW Classic: Holy Priest. Strightforward gameplay with direct heals and shields. I don't like the insanity bar in Retail for the (Shadow) Priest.
WoW Classic: Shaman. Strightforward gameplay with totems, chain heals and simple heals. I do not like the maelstrom bar for the shaman in Retail.
WoW Classic: Druid. Strightforward gameplay HoT, enchanting Hot with direct heals and terrain healing.
Lord of the Rings Online: Minstrel. I just like the core mechanics.
Bear Shaman in Age of Conan - Healing while smashing. Always good.
Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning: Disciple of Khaine. I love this melee healer till today.
Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning : Shaman. Interesting technique there: The more healing you did, the more you strengthened your next attack abilities. The reverse is exactly the same!
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
In conclusion, there are two things that bother me personally.
Firstly, I am not a fan of held abilities as they disrupt the harmonious flow of the game. I don't think they fit this archetype (or healing and support classes in general). A toggleable solution would not convince me either.
Secondly, I definitely have issues with the build-and-consume Divine Infusion mechanic. I already hated it when Holy Power was introduced for Paladins in WoW Cataclysm and later for Shamans and Priests in Legion with an equivalent bar. It broke the class fantasy for me that suddenly everyone got something like that for no significant reason, and all classes ended up playing the same, different only in the distance where you cast the spell. The problem I see with this is that it will just lead to wild key hammering without knowing exactly what you're doing. This experience has only strengthened me at the end of the Evoker.
Apart from that, I enjoyed the stream.
Thank you very much for reading through. I'm looking forward to the Bard, which hopefully won't have any held or build and consume mechanics.
UI
I like the clean window frame layout. However, the font. UGH.. please change. At higher resolutions, I see that being hard to read.....Currently its tough to read in video at 4k res fullscreen and i'm on a 2k monitor. The ONLY thing AGS got right in New World was the UI Font (easy to read and crisp). Please go in that direction for UI font type
It’s a starting point. I think you need around 3-5 abilities/spells per level/progression where there is no clear dominant ability/spell. That way players can customize their builds in a way that all clerics are not basically carbon copies. That is of course a challenge for design to keep them balanced among the choice while also balanced with other systems. Also, a larger pool allows you to test them all out to weed out the ideas/concepts that just don’t work. So we should see a bunch of iterations during Alpha 2 before you’re settled on the final set that can be polished during Beta.
I also like the idea of scarcity in ability/spell based on other associations, accomplishments or synergies between archetypes that we haven’t seen yet.
I am sure a lot of people have commented on spell effects. I think you should consider some options. First, as a caster, you should have some way to scale up or down the spell effect for each of your abilities/spells. Some effects being visible makes sense, others not so much. For example, if you wanted a more subtle caster, you should have the option to tone it down. Second, in general players ought to have a way to adjust the spell effects on their displays in similar ways so that they can see what’s going on. Believe this has been mentioned, but there are effects that are beneficial to still stand out. Third, there ought to be the same risk-reward applied to effects. So say aggro increases proportionally to the intensity of the effect. That would also provide players an option to customize specific abilities/spells to generate a desired aggro. Example, the Tank/Cleric may want the aggro, whereas the Cleric/Tank may not. Bottom line, if players see the effects and can react to them, then so should the mobs or bosses.
I think held casting is the way for the player to customize the cost-benefit of the cast. So while some folks like a simple spam cast option, perhaps there would be a way for the player to customize or toggle these spells to switch between those options. Fast click vs hold would be the toggle, but if the button starts at the lower end of the scale you lose that. So maybe have the power start in the middle for a fraction of a second, drop down and then scale up. Part of that strategy would be to hold for a less powerful but less costly cast.
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AstroliteMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2023
Wow! I am so glad the kits are coming together with a blend of interesting mechanics. Great job with understanding how a healer is able have diverse yet meaningful types of heals. Excited to see this system expanded upon with the cleric and all the other classes and abilities! I cant wait to see how the main archetype blends with the sub type and the choices to make within that context.
Please please do not pigeon hole into a single build once you have made that choice, to where every person who has that spec looks exactly the same. Options Options Options! Again yall have made some great steps in the direction of diverse combat mechanics and amount of skills in a kit.
For the Action Abilities such as the healing wave make sure their casting range is not too short. Since they are action based it needs some good range to it for it to feel good or else it will never land with people moving and hoping around all the time.
I am not sure about the yellow resource slowly gaining. I believe it would be better to have instant feedback in relation to your healing output. Or At least a more tactile punch? is what im looking for here. If you want the generation system to slowly build up still maybe apply 90% instantly on big heals.
Some things that i have enjoyed from cleric in the past that would help to finish out the kits:
Long term buffs - that apply to raids/party Thinking 30 min to hour long Stat modifiers
(Move Speed)(Overall Stat boost)(Cooldowns)
Short Term Buffs - Apply instant buffs that are stronger to other players
(Attack Speed)(Attack Power)(Cooldowns)(CC Duration)
Summoning party members/raid - The ability to summon party members in the same zone
Shields - Shields that last longer or apply to multiple people. I understand the idea of the typical 10 second health shield but we also need some longer lasting less/more impactful shields. Could be mix and matched with certain sub-class types.(some have more than others)
Examples:
Healing shield - Increases overall healing to the target
Stat Shield - Increases Defenses
Reflective Shield - reflects damage and heals =]
Anti-Crowd Control Shield
Cleanse Abilities - can be combined or even separate skills
Damage cleansing
CC Cleansing
Status Cleansing
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
Looks good. Although i am concerned what and how subclasses will play hearing, "It may not change anything but the look of some abilities.." Also needs more damaging spells (Hard to tell without subclass). Although the wands were nice in alpha 1 but was dull. Would have been nice to see magical staffs that have a heavier hit but a slower speed then the wand. Would be more useful for a healer who may be healing more and still want to throw around a few damaging auto-attacks. Wands seem more warlock/mage'ish. Although if was a thing wouldnt lock it by class. Cleric would still benefit more from it. It needs more damaging abilities. I hope that there are damage types ingame to help balance so it can get holy damage or radiant damage from aoe healing spells to do AOE damage too. There was no nearly enough damage spells, directly or by proxy. It does not seem viable to solo beyond just spamming wand. I would suggest just making the base abilities have dual use so they can be used to damage targets as well directly or indirectly.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
A little bit of both prolly 50/50 60/50 50/60
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
At least 3 from the plethora of about 20 you showed. Also, however 1/2 of those 3-4 charge spells should be movable and not immobilize you even at reduced moved speed. The point i think maybe in pvp might be to expend less mana and might be hard to optimize however to make it practical in some fights.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Not too sure yet since you said mana isnt balanced yet but seems like a dump. Just not sure in a good or bad way yet but the idea is interesting.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Generally healers are primary targets so im looking forward to trying to CC the crap out of them and zerg killing them. On the flip side i am interested in how some other classes will play into cleric dip in primary class or subclass and hope it will make things unique like a mage/cleric who may get minor healing to or from damaging spells.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Like i said i want to be able to notice the play style differences... just seeing a spell turn to some dark effect like a cleric/warlock build just doesn't cut it. Hope to be sure to get unique abilities with each mix as well as unique modifiers to already existing spells. The answer Steven gave that ive stated above: "It may not change anything but the look of some abilities.." concerns me greatly and i feel its a lazy way out. Also if so i hope a cleric/cleric abilities are like a cleric on roids in visual and talent.. Within reason of course..
Please add quick ways like a hotkey to choose who to heal/target that you can set to a few players or between a group of 5 including yourself.
Lastly, the godrays and graphics looks amazing, i like the nestled nook in cranny feel from the passageway to the ruin. I can only imagine how much more beautiful and encapsulating it will look throughout the seasons especially fall.
Comments
Environment is great as always. Only the amount of falling leaves might be a bit overmuch.
(might tank the perfomance for some)
Combat moves in the right direction. It shows that Intrepid hires mainly people who played mmorpgs and not just made them.
Animation wise only the single target Hot is way to flashy for me.
Thinking of say 100 people all with these floating lights circling around them.
Just 2 people with them was to much for me already.
It would also kinda tank the performance in mass pvp.
I would fully remove the part where it circles around the player and reduce overall flashiness by 80%.
its a small hot not an ultimate skill.
Skill effects have to take into account when 2 zergs fight each other.
Either that or give players the option to reduce or outright remove skill effects.
Ragnarok online had the ability to remove all skill effects and it was something nearly everyone used in mass pvp for good reason.
You cant fight if you cant see due to effect spam.
Other then that it looked good.
Most skill effects were just right and that is the right direction.
Balance wise the cast time and durations need a pass but that is to be expected.
-The buff needs to last longer.
-Same with both the single target hot and the group hot.
-Shield is kinda weak for the ammount of health sacrificed.
I am not sure i like all these "hold" skills.
It would really be nice if the player can chage hold skills into press once for charging and press again for using the skill early.
Otherwise there will be complex finger gymnasic needed to keep your fingers W A S D , the mouse and press and hold something like key 7.
Art wise I think the Clerics abilities are a thing of beauty and matches the rest of the gorgeous art.
Kit wise it has plenty of utility and versatility.
The Cleric is in a great spot, everything about the Cleric is looking great.
• Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Since you’re showing off tab, I am genuinely wondering how the skills will behave differently when action combat.
Free aim abilities do not calculate the same way tab abilities would, I am also waiting to see how spell collision will work in terms of healing.
Very nice touch having the name of the spell placed either below the cast bar when casting.
A few minor suggestions. You might want to give you chain heal/damage spells (like Cleric's Resplendent Beam and Mage's Chain Lightning) a few charges. This allows either a long channel to effect multiple targets, or a series of short charges to either due a single target, or tab target to get multiple targets at once. Also, if not all the total charges are off cool down, a long channel will be shorter and less effect.
This will help with spell rotation, because the spell becomes useful either in single target or multiple target situations.
For balance, the quick charges will not equal on full hit to a single target during a long channel of the spell.
Further, give the hybrid nature of the classes, in some cases chain spells can hit a crowd randomly, after first target, either the spell either healing or damaging the targets depending on if the target is an ally or enemy.
To remove randomness, the jumps can more likely hit allies or enemies depending of the caster is speced for healing or damage.
Further specs could determine if more or less jumps, or how long the channel, charges, or cooldown of the spell will be.
Also, offering a way to spec a heal over time spell, such as Soothing Glow, to become a channeled spell that when channeled at the end of the spell it explodes from around the caster to give heal over time buffs to the allies around.
Looks great so far. It looks more engaging than most pure cleric classes I've played in other games. I love the ability to tailor your abilities by adjusting the cast time.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
An overwhelming majority should have versatility with some single and specific.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
If you literally mean holding the button down, then some but not a ton. Constantly holding buttons down feels bad in any game. A second press or some other type of interrupt is better for charge abilities. Perhaps that can be a toggle feature in the preferences.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Great. It means you are locked in far less often, being able to instantly react makes a class more exciting to play.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
The ability to tailor my abilities by changing the cast time.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Fury/Warden from EQ2, Shadow Priest from WoW, Sage from FFXIV, Scoundrel from SWTOR.
Looks great so far!
I really like this idea! If possible to implement this, please do!!
I think that is exactly what they have done, but I guess I can confirm it in an hour or so since I'm now rewatching the VOD for a different post.
I would love more utility spellls in pve and cc in pvp, overall there a decent amount of hots and direct heals.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
40% specific spells
60% versatility spells
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
4 - 5 some being really long but really powerful
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It is good to be able to use fillers but should heal the more if you spam it on one target.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Ulitity abilities like mind control and cluth saves spells, also diferent cc spells from the rest of the classes.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Disciple Priest from wotlk wow era. alot of utility, cc instant spells and you have to be very cautious about your resources.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
PvP abilities since with this kit shown woudl be hard to be competitive.
Thank you for your hard work.
Overall, I really like it. While I generally don't main a healer, it looks like it will be fun to play as a healer.
I do wonder how well the Cleric will function for DPS during solo or even small group gameplay. Think 2-3 players in areas that only need occasional heals. I know that during Alpha 1, the DPS from the Cleric felt really low. Of course it was low level without much ability to spec so we will have to see.
I know Steven described that the DPS wouldn't be so bad as to be unplayable solo. But what does that exactly mean? My impression is that the Cleric will need to swap from healing gear into DPS focused gear to play solo or possibly even in small groups. I would think that a minimum weapons and accessories or jewelry will need to be carried to swap between DPS and heals.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Personally, I like skills with multiple functions. It makes them more interesting and versatile. Under the Ashes system we will be able to focus on improving specific skills and having more functions per skill would have even more impact when focusing into a specific skill.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
Held abilities are restrictive to being reactive. Because of this, I prefer no more than a few or maybe 5-10%. One is fine. 0 in a build is also fine. Or one specific function per held ability with no more than a few functions available (so only a few total abilities).
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
I think its good. Adds depth and additional reactive gameplay. Also, I really like having very different effects from different abilities to match up in different ways. Assuming there is only one heal that can be instant cast during other abilities, I doubt that it will be difficult to balance.
What excites you about playing with a Cleric Archetype?
Probably not helpful, but: heals be good
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
My favorite would be the Disciple of Khaine (DOK) from Warhammer Online. This was basically a life steal healer that used dual swords and could heal his defensive target while using many of his attacks. This was a medium armor and DPS focus class. While DPS was not as high as fully focused melee DPS, the survivability from heals and other defenses made the class far more successful in PvP than focused melee DPS classes. You could also swap your offhand weapon for a chalice to easily switch into a heal focused build. Very versatile.
There was a counter class from the other side called a Warrior Priest. This class was similar to the DOK. However, the Warrior Priest wore heavy armor and used a 2 handed hammer. These guys were almost indestructible. While I had many situations in which I could survive indefinitely as a DOK facing 3 or so players by myself, my warrior priest sometimes felt immortal with 5 players beating on me while solo. If I had a tank that could throw Guard on me to transfer 50% of the damage, I would say that most of the time I was indestructible by up to 5 of any random group of players at once.
I do think the DOK and Warrior Priests were overpowered. However, given how fun they were and Ashes intended flexibility in gear and build creation, recreating the DOK in Ashes is one of my goals. I will just have to see what kind of life steal options will be available.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Mostly I just want to get my hands on it to try it out and see how gameplay actually feels.
Effects are not overdone, Good use of chromatic aberration effects, to be honest I was expecting this:
https://youtu.be/bwxkz0dePQw
I see you are using a Sharpen Post Process, Will we have the ability to pick & choose Post Process effects in the setting menu?
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
-
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
1 Elite.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It seems like a requirement regardless of opinion & feedback that it will be required during other skills. Which is bad.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Excites? No playing against healers in all MMO's to date is pure cancer with hint of the blood poisoning. Very accurate description if i'm being honest. They are always to OP unless you & others Zerg them first.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
GW2, technically not Clerics but they lack the ability to over-heal themselves, making combat balanced for all classes. Healers & tanks from the "trinity" are always the flaws in MMO's. FFXIV 3 sets of healers would come in second: Scholar barrier heals was my main.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
The BAD
Mend
To much delay from spell cast to applied heal & that is in a local server not a online server with a Real Life Ping applied.
- Needs to be applied on button press not on animation land.
Deliverance
To much delay from spell cast to applied heal & that is in a local server not a online server with a Real Life Ping applied.
- Issue is it is a "held ability". A simple fix would be applying a basic Regen while its being held by basic I do mean next to no healing which would bandaid the issue.
Healing Touch
- Why? Zero need for novelty heals, just make it heal when cast regardless of range OR do different amount of heals for different distance from the heal in a 360 area of effect.
Divine Flare
- Straight up wrong.
- Needs a full rework.
When placed it should pulse heals.
Zero need for players to run to it.
Zero need for casters to fail placement of it, so should lock onto targets with placement.
Keep in mind MMO players (True MMO PLAYERS) are always taught "Never stand in AOE's" Hence those type of skills are an issue.
Barrier
- I personally think if going risk/reward it should consume healers Stamina rather than HP. A more fair compromise OR ground lock caster for a second or 2 which is just as bad as using HP but more fair as the damage they will take from casting comes from other players, not themselves.
THE QUESTIONABLE
Divine Power
Another stupid mechanic taken from non MMO games.....
will test but not impressed.
Resplendent beam
- hmm need to test.
Judgement
-Need to test but likely same issues as Deliverance
THE GOOD
Soothing Glow / Flash Cure / Communal Restoration / Consecrating Wave / Chains of restrain / Defiant Light / Wings of salvation
- This is how skills should work.
Consecrating Wave
- Might be due to the speed of animation making it look like it works fine?
Wings of salvation
You 100% know this is the get the FK out of Dodge skill not the go to save players skill right!!!! note the ! & not a ?.
Other attacks are good.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?I think Charge abilities are fantastic and I think the amount you have at the moment is fine, however I think the ability to circumvent this Charge and turn them into burst heals with Divine Infusion is over powered.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities? I'm not a fan of it. I think the class already has to much burst heal and panic heals. Pick one Flash cure or Divine Infusion you don't need 2 skills for the same function and a healer class shouldn't have so many safety nets.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype? The Cleric appears like it would be frustrating to play against simple due to all the safety nets and burst healing it has. I normally healer main but after this video I'm considering playing a high mobility nuker because of how powerful clerics appear to be and how necessary it will be to target them first in fights.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
A few skills in the video caught my attention:
Divine Power, I noticed the only use for this is burst healing and I'd like to see a trade off like having mend use Divine Power instead of charges for example. This would cause a trade off between do you want more burst heal with your divine power or more mana regen for a longer fight. I also think you generate Divine Power too quickly and the ability to double cast Divine Infusion with sometime like deliverance provides ridiculous levels of burst healing which is exacerbated by no global cool down on the class's skills.
Mend is designed to never be off cooldown so to utilize this skill properly you need to be spamming it continuously throughout all fights as both one of your main Divine Power generators and mana restorers and this to me seems a bit too mindless especially since it seems to only generate Divine Power when it is on it's last charge which punishes you if you spend a moment not casting it. I'd prefer to see this skill use Divine Power and give a flat mana return and heal much less than it does (maybe ~25% less) rather than Generate ~2 Divine Power at 1 charge left because that would allow this skill to adapt to the tempo of the fights (The more efficiently you heal the more Divine Power you generate ergo the more Divine Power you have to convert back into mana). It's worth noting that if you are weaving this skill between your other skills then you likely won't be weaving your wand in as much if at all.
Bless Weapon appears to be castable on at least 2 or more people and the 15 second duration is low enough that it appears to be quite a high maintenance skill. If you were to use this on yourself for mana regen it would require that you use your wand to get the mana regen stacks, whilst Mend also provides mana but requires you to keep it's charges as low as possible. These two skills will conflict when trying to generate mana as both require you to spam them but I guess this may be by design?
I don't see why you would ever use Judgement to heal if you have Deliverance. Deliverance heals more, costs less and has no cooldown while Judgement has a 15 sec cooldown. The only reason I can think of is changing target mid cast(if that is even possible) because someone got hit hard and you don't have any Divine Power for Divine Infusion instant casting.
The Cleric class feels like it lacks Utility and I feel like you lose a bit of the immersive feel for the class without Utility. For example the mage has sleep and I figured the cleric would have a purge/debuff removal, resistance buff or stat buff but maybe these things will come later. Bless Weapon is technically utility but It doesn't appear to be viable to use on classes that aren't using "weapon combo attacks" in their rotations which is hard to make any conclusions about at the moment and possibly differs from player to player.
I'd like to know if you change targets mid cast does the heal hit your old target or new target.
Thanks for the live stream and great work so far.
With: It feels strong. I feel like today really spotlighted how important the trinity will be if you want to be getting through content at a decent pace.
Against: I am slightly worried about how much the TTK will be increased with a cleric against you. That auto revive HoT hopefully will have a lengthy CD. Hopefully classes will have skillful ways to reduce a clerics effectiveness whether that’s of course silences/stuns, or a status effect that dampens healing. Some applied to the healer that dampen the heals they send out, as well as some applied to other players/npcs to reduce their healing received.
I don’t play healer in a lot of games but some of my favorites have been resto shamans in WoW, and clerics and chanters in Aion.
The resto shaman I really enjoyed the themes. I loved the ebb and flow use of water as the method of healing. And the use of passives through totems that you could switch through depending on the situation.
Much like the resto shaman the chanter in Aion had a similar playstyle. Rotating through passive buffs and heals. The chanter was so enjoyable for me though because it was more of a midranged class. You were melee but had buffs and heals and damage you were all rotating through.
The cleric from Aion was the real healer though. Big burst heals, but also respectable damage, and just enough CC. It was amazing in solo PvP. Ashes cleric reminds me of how it felt to play a cleric in Aion, but better in every way. Excited about tons. The last two class showcases have made me so excited for how all the classes are going to feel. Keep putting all that time and love into making every one fulfill the fantasy of that archetype.
A concern I have is a lack of the death side of the cleric. I feel it would be great to have a health siphon like ability, or really anything that feels like you are actually a master of death as well. The auto revive and regular revive feel more like someone adept at cheating death, not someone who controls it.
Some more things that use your health maybe. Perhaps even a change to the class resource where it’s a tug of war. Casting life spells (healing/divine/radiant) bring you towards the radiant increasing the efficacy of those spells and casting death spells moves you the other way increasing the efficacy of your death damage or using less health on cast. Divine infusion can change based on what side your bar is on. If you’re to the death side it changes to death infusion (or something named better) causing your next death spell to be X amount stronger consuming all your death points instead of reducing the cast time. The healing wave could become more life oriented or death oriented based on what side you’re on. Hel in Smite had this light and darkness tug of war duality. I found her incredibly fun to play.
Keep up the synergies of different status effects helping to set up combos with other classes. This is going to make group play very enjoyable finding different ways to work together. I love anything that increases the skill ceiling of the archetypes that can really differentiate someone who puts in the effort to really know their class inside and out.
Some other things I forgot I wanted to add in regards to the increased health and shield UI.
I’m not a fan of it appear at the same point as 0 on the health bar. For shield I would like them to build from the tip of your current health backwards. Then it depletes the opposite way until the tip of the health bar is now visible again.
Similarly with the added health I feel like it should build off the tip of your current health to simulate it being added. It’s likely these things were already planned eventually but I still wanted to make sure to add it.
Additionally I’m not fond of the targeted hard CC. I think this is a great spot for a dual purpose spell and you should include it in the ground target heal. If an enemy is in the center ring of the circle they are stunned. It adds more potential for the stun since it wouldn’t be limited to single target but the enemy has a chance to react since it is a delayed result. Could be great for healing while providing an opening for your melee allies.
Improved very much from the last showcase.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Personally i enjoy having more versatility in my abilities but some spesific use case abilities can be fine.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
Depends on the class and if it fits with the playstyle, as a DPS player i would prefer the ranger snipe ability or the mage fireball or similar abilities to be hold down abilities.
on that note, it looks to me that how the current ''action mode'' abilities work currently (hover over target -> press ability -> ability starts casting -> ability hits target you hovered over and pressed ability on) imo to make this feel more "action" the abilities like ranger snipe should be freely usable to start charging and then at the end when the ability goes off, hit the target you are hovering over. This way incase you change your mind on the target you wanna hit, it would be possible to do so. Currently it's not possible. This would work with the hold down abilities on the cleric too (in action mode which wasn't shown)
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Depends on the ability, some usable while casting and going off, others being able to be used but then interrupting the current cast and casting that ability instead. Like an instant interrupt should be usable while casting and cancel the cast and interrupt the target.
*Editing as I missed the first 20 minutes during the live stream. After re-watching the YT upload my thoughts have changed.
Ability Icons - Nice golden theme, too consistent though. Difficult to differentiate on first glance. Would be better to have more variety in color, some matte, some glossy, some light, some darker, changes in color scheme as well.
Abilities - I will watch again in more detail. The two that stood out to me that I liked the most visually were the golden v-formation arc the cleric sends out. Looks great, and functional. I also liked the bird dash though maybe give your character golden wings while dashing? Could tell a better visual story for how the cleric is dashing around like that. Otherwise it just feels like everyone gets a dash. It should have a visual story to match the mage dash warp ability portal as an example.
**The abilities shown off that are closer to quick-cast in the first 20 minutes of the stream all function nicely and will compliment the game well. I like them all.
Auto attack projectiles - Maybe make the clerics different in arc from the mage. Could invert to more of an overhand/underhand travel path rather than hooking left and right like the mage projectiles. Help distinguish between roles.
Mage side bar - Looked slow, unimpactful, low damage, a bit boring. Understood the player was likely holding back to let the tank and healer interaction play out in the spot light but in general the mage abilities and animations need to be more impactful and sped up. The mage should look and be more effective at range.
Pace of combat - Very slow. Coming from New World and Albion Online the combat shown is very different. And even amongst itself its hard to see how such a slow pace will jive with pvp or be interesting for pvp.
Self-rooting abilities and Long Animation casts - Hard to tell without further testing or showcase but the role looked very stationary (Cleric). A bit faster from the early last demo but still a lot of windup for the casts. Many abilities could be sped up by 25%-40%.
I'll have to watch the stream again but I heard mention of jump combat examples. I hope jump combat, erratic movement and ability casts isn't the meta or encouraged in the game. I hate the look and feel of the pogo stick fighting games and that would be a major turn off for me. I didn't see evidence of that on stream myself though.
Combat in general - Abilities feel and look very soft and low impact. Part of that is the slow speed of animations both in casting and their outward release. Part is the lack of audio and/or impact with mobs. There is a lack of weight and umphh to everything.
Combat is currently too feminine, floaty, flowery in how its conveyed by characters (slow, soft, no weight).
I'm not a healer player in games typically. One game that I did enjoy healing in was Albion Online as a Nature healer, particularly the old Rampant Staff. It has a rectangular roll out green carpet ability with a hunting horn that would sound and you could throw it out in any direction from your character. Super fun to use and was one of those abilities that made you feel good every time you pressed its button. They updated the ability to work more like Rumble from League of Legends with a ranged 360 degree drop, pivot, drag and it made the ability clunky as heck since. I liked the old style 100% better. The more allies stood in the green healing area granted stronger healing per/tick for all. The other mechanic nature healers used was to spam HoT's on allies. Had to manage them to keep them all running at max stacks.
Auto Attack speed - The very slow ability casts and animation speed in comparison to the fast auto/basic attack animation speed and projectiles still feels off to me. I'd flip them. Auto attacks should be slower and abilities faster/more exciting. With 20+ abilities honestly basic attacks shouldn't be much of a thing. They seem to be used a lot (way too much) for all roles.
The slower and longer ability animation and casts take, the more boring and predictable PVE encounters with bosses will have to be unless you let players roll out or cancel their abilities somehow. If you speed abilities up you can have more fun and engaging combat for both pvp and pve.
After watching the first 20 minutes ability showcase demo, this part of the stream was much better than the pve combat latter portion. I don't think there was as much value shown as most of the abilities weren't used during that portion of the stream. A reliance on a small few and my impression from catching that portion of the Twitch stream was that combat was much too slow and boring. After re-watching the YT posted stream I have more hope for combat as more of the abilities there were quick-cast. The long windup abilities/animations for both mage and cleric were underwhelming in their effect and I thought that was all there was from catching the back half of the cleric update initially.
That mage purple orb ability needs work. Make it travel a much shorter distance, speed it up, does it do any damage? It's hard to tell if its just a debuff. Seems very unimpactful atm. Maybe shoot a smaller orb out and suck it back to you like a yo-yo. New World does this with one of their Void Gauntlet abilities. Looks nice. The purple orb you have travels too far and will cause mobs behind what you're fighting to get pulled. Overall impression is the first part ability showcase is nice, the pve adventure doesn't show off the game's combat well. That looks very slow paced where I'd like to see the game more leaning towards quick-cast and higher impact. Its very slow and soft.
there are a lot of heal skills who hardly differ from each other ( from time spend to heal outcome, mana costs are up to changes as told in the video)
I would turn resplendent beam into a skill that has an big AOE effect off the healer. because devine flare is very small and takes a while so party members probably didnt recive it or have to left the area.
Well and I'm hoping to add some damage skills as well, otherwise it would take a while to get through the story. A Skill for Dispell negativ effects like sleeping would also be great for pvp support
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Dual purpose skills like Judgment and Consecrating Wave are great because if you're playing solo or running your storyline/farming, any unused healing ability is a blocked damaging ability
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
2 heal skills and a damage skill seem fine to me, but I prefer not to press all the time while a skill is charged. So maybe I can type a short text message.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It's great as an instant heal, but since it doesn't take long to charge up, I probably wouldn't use it while I'm already casting, but rather to prevent someone's death
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
i like supporting my party or the whole raid party while fighting bosses or in pvp
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
back in the day Aion had good clerics and also war of imortales
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
-cleric needs a Dispell skill to remove sleep. ( or at least the bard needs this)
-i would change resplendent beam to an AOE heal skill or it works like a pet that moves to group members and they heal themselves when needed
-bless weapon should be a permanent buff on an single target
-soothing glow could have a longer duration or higher heal per tick
- a movebility skill that moves the caster backwards (for pvp reasons)
Maggie and Steven covered this after the video part. There is going to be multiple ways to target and such later on. Check the VOD after they've finished the video to hear their words on it.
A) Great direction, huge improvement on the previous showcase during the environment stream.
Q) Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
A) Versatility all the way. By far a superior way.
Q) How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
A) If i were allowed to move and hold/charge the ability i would want there to be just a few of those sprinkled in. So about 2, maybe 3. If it were more and i have to set all those abilities on hotkeys above 1-4 (so on 5-9 on the keyboard) would be a nuisance to use. If i werent allowed to move at all during holding/charging then all of that goes out the window and it becomes a question of "flow" to play the class. Getting rooted everytime you hold/charge would feel bad and i would skip out on the abilities if they weren't powerfull enough to use. So Deliverance would be picked up, but if Mend were a charge/hold, nawh.
Q) How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
A) Great, good choice. The more active you can be with your kit the better.
Q) What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
A) Being active with the cleric kit. Stacking and maintaining Soothing Glow on a player and when you're waiting for your charges to come back. Start charging a Deliverance whilst flash heal someone else while you're waiting for your Deliverance to charge. More of this high apm stuff that really rewards your knowledge about the mechanics of the class kit. I do hope Deliverance looks for your target upon release of the ability to heal that target, and not the target when you first initiated the hold/charge.
Q) Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
A) It's great to see Resplendent Beams' beam follow the target now when they're moving, looks great. I would love to see marks in the bar though to see if your charge is high enough to heal 1, 2 or 3 targets. Flexibility to determine what happens when holding/charging for a shorter or longer duration is a phenomenal idea, i would love for this to stay.
I would love to see temp health at the end of the HP bar instead of on top at the start. I feel like it'll be more clear how much temp hp you have left before it eats into your actual hp.
I really like Defiant Lights' reactionary ressurect mechanic. Being able to clutch save someone like that feels great when you manage to pull it off. Battlefield knowledge and knowing what's going on and going to happen gets rewarded.
The fact that there are some "melee" heals in there is a nice change of pace. Want to do a big heal? Get closer and risk your own safety.
The divine infusion mechanic sounds really nice. The flexibility between increased heals or instant cast when you have enough at the cost of increased heals is great. Rewarding if managed properly.
Again, love these flexible, 2 flavor aspects of the abilties.
My concerns are about the 3rd resource, Divine Power. The shown usage was two-fold, either sit on it for a passive benefit or use it for Divine Infusion. It could certainly enjoy more abilities tied to it. The choice between "do nothing" (Divine Power is gained passively by performing rotation, and doesn't punish overcapping) vs. "press 1 button" (which may not even be there, if you don't elect to learn Divine Infusion) doesn't look like much fun. Here are some ideas for similarly meta uses, that don't add new healing / damaging powers, but affect the existing ones (like Divine Infusion does):
1. Ability that instantly restores 1 charge to all charge-based spells, fixed cost.
2. Ability that extends all currently active heal-over-time effects by X seconds. Cost may be fixed, or consume more resource for longer cast time, for greater effect.
3. Ability that accelerates cooldown recovery for you and all allies within certain range. It needs to be channeled, using any other spell or action will interrupt it, although movement is allowed. The recovery rate starts slowly, but ramps over time, the longer you maintain its channeling. Drains resource over time.
4. Ability that increases movement speed for you and all allies. Instant cast, fixed cost, fixed duration.
The spells are interesting, i like the direction, the more versatility we can have on every spell the better the kit in my opinion. I hope they are not too hard to use with the action camera. I guess everything will depends on how good the mono-targeting will work when in action camera.
I really loved the spell designs and those golden and violet colors fit perfectly for Cleric spells! I can't wait to see how Cleric works as Shaman (Cleric + Summoner) and it would be cool to have an option to change the spell colors into green to have a little bit different vibe when playing as "nature" themed Shaman. In my opinion gold and violet colors work fantasticly with "holy" themed Clerics but optional green color (maybe with some light blue) would fit better with playing as Shaman.
Overall this update looked very good and Cleric is moving into good direction. I'm still waiting some other biomes than Riverlands but take all the time you need to finish them!
• Really intrigued. I love healing in other games and you are definitely grabbing my attention.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
•Defiinitely a bit of both i think. I want those standard backbone types of heal that work how you expect.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
•Very few, but it depends. When there is not a clear beginning and end it might feel unsatisfied, atleast is has not felt very good in other games. A good example of a good channel/hold was the "Mend" ability in the preview. During its full channel (if you cast all charges) it's constantly happening something and even if you get interuppted you have still achived something. Imagine holding down the charge heal for 4 sec and you get interuppted at 3.5 sec and wasted all that time, bleh!
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
• As I said i love healing and the responsibility that comes with it. I love actively doing something during combat. I both like the lowkey pve chill scenarios when healing and the brutally high stakes pvp fights. Having an arsenal of abilities and stuff to do in both scenarios makes for a really fun time.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
• I have to say warhammer online was the mmo that really made me love healing. The constant need of me to heal someone on the open pvp zones whether they were in my party or just an ally.
Warhammer also had super fun healing classes and abilites.
For example an oh shit ability called siphon i think were you damage everyone around you and for the damage done you heal everyone in your party. You would time that for when the enemy used their ultimate types of abilities. Super scary and you would need fast reaction and have good positioning, exactly what i love about the healing class.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
• Im excited about feeling like a can always be in my healing spec and still be useful to people around me and not only people in my party.
Im also excited about how all the abilites is gonna feel. Like the mend ability looked super nice with how you "threw" a bolt of light to an ally.
• Im concerned about the mana system. I have not played a fun healing class in any game where there were a slow draining big pool of resource. I much prefer you haveing to actively do something to keep your resources up. Like in warhammer. One class had to regain resource by putting a drain on an enemy that took resource from them and gave it to you. Another class had to damage enemies in between their heals. Much more fun to have better control over your mana or whatever and not just watch it slowly drain away and when empty you are a fish in a barrel, boooring.
There's work to be done and many thoughts about it have to be reserved until we know more about other archetypes and classes, but at a glance, it looks great!
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
I dramatically prefer abilities that have versatile/multiple usages. It leads to decision-making with benefits and sacrifices when you choose one of an ability's options over the other and reduces the need for a greater number of abilities (I personally enjoy fewer abilities with greater distinction rather than a ton of abilities that are functionally similar and only exist to serve as part of a rotation). So long as it makes sense (and all of the showcased abilities did) the more the merrier. I'd even prefer if every single ability worked similarly so long as it's done in a way that makes sense.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
I don't have a preference so long as each ability with that quality has it for a specific reason, not just to increase the number of held abilities.
If held abilities can contribute to the versatility (which has the advantages I described above among others) of abilities, then I'm all for them.
Note, that I'll be playing on an orb-weaver or a controller, so I won't experience the mechanical drawbacks of held abilities. I understand some people not preferring them for that reason.
Edit: Wanted to add - If there is going to be many held abilities, I wouldn't want them all to make you stationary and having more abilities you can use while charging (like flash cure) would be needed so you aren't just sitting there holding a button and waiting, there are other things you can do (movement/abilities). I'm imagining something like a held ability for tank which generates threat while being held and then unleashes an attack that does more damage the more times he got hit while holding. Wouldn't need to restrict his movement much/at all.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
It has a unique function, so as long as it ends up being balanced well I think it's a cool and powerful option to have. With held abilities being a thing, these kinds of abilities fit nicely. Maybe should be reserved for heavily heal-invested builds. I know balancing is for later though.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Cleric is not my favorite style of healer but it looks fun and I imagine those who like that kind of healing will have a blast with this. I think they'll definitely feel needed by and valuable to any team, which at the core is what healers love.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
I've mostly played other styles of healers so I don't have strong preferences here.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
I'm excited to see how augments affect the cleric gameplay and how choosing cleric as a secondary class will affect other archetypes.
I'm concerned about counterplay against and as the cleric. The heals seem extremely strong, and I imagine anyone attempting to kill a cleric would need cc's to prevent them from flying away, on top of healing output/receiving debuffs to prevent them from healing all damage. Hopefully, the cleric would have ways to mitigate those kinds of threats as well. I love trump cards trumping trump cards, so the more layered counterplay the better in my mind.
Perhaps aura debuffs that limit incoming healing would be necessary too for large-scale pvp with lots of healing going around. I just hope that counterplay is possible and rewarding both as and against the cleric.
Some other thoughts:
I'll avoid tuning topics like "Why is the cleansing wave charge time so small for such a big effect compared to the tap/single target version?" or about mana regeneration. Those and others are issues, but I know the game needs tuning and iterations and this isn't the time or place for too many details about that.
Limited Starting Healers
My biggest concern isn't so much with the cleric itself which looks like it's heading in an amazing direction, but with the limited options for starting out as a healer. The cleric looks great, but it being the only healing option to start the game with feels like a missed opportunity. I'm imagining them being mandatory for difficult content below the level where you can choose a class (30 was it?). And for anyone who wants to be a healer but doesn't want to be this kind of healer, they're out of luck until they reach that level. It feels strange to start with holy magic and then suddenly at level 30 to potentially turn to some darkside. I wish we had those options from the start so that you could live something resembling the kind of fantasy character you want from the start instead of arbitrarily becoming it once a level threshold is reached.
Hybrid Combat and Controllers
I feel like the hybrid combat is kind of in an awkward place because the vast number of abilities are tab targeted, but then you have one ability that is a ground target. I personally wish that the combat leaned more heavily on action, but simultaneously I know that many of my friends will not play a game if it doesn't support playing with a controller and the only action abilities I've seen so far is the hallowed ground (on cleric, I know there may be some on mage too but I haven't checked that out as extensively) and the basic sword swings. The ground targets are very bad for controllers. Since it's mostly tab target anyway, could you make an option to have that appear on a selected ally instead of having to aim it? Sword swings and even some skill shots can be fine on a controller, but ground targeting is awful so it feels like a shame to have the only action-oriented abilities be the most controller-unfriendly kind. That wouldn't even impact me personally except when I'm feeling lazy and play on the couch, but so many people, and my friends in particular, won't play if it feels bad to play on a controller. Please develop controller support!
Edit 2: I missed Consecrating Wave. This is the type of action ability I'd like to see the most of. Action, but directional instead of ground targeted. My bad for missing that! It's a great ability I'd love to see more like it.
Ally/Enemy targetting
I love the idea of separate targeting for allies and enemies. Please implement that! It's a great idea.
Final Thoughts:
All in all, it looks great for Alpha; keep up the good work!
Briefly about myself: Since the 2005 release, I have levelled as an Undead as a Holy Priest and was used as the main healer until the end of Wrath of the Lich King in all raids. I also popped into other games as a healer in between and I'll go into that a bit later.
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
In principle, the basic tone of the class is good. There were some great skills that read great, were clearly explained by the staff and were easy to understand. The conclusion in the video as possible gameplay pretty much sums up what to expect. As with previous videos, I ask that you keep this style of presentation as it gave me a clear picture of this archetype, even in the development phase.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Personally, I prefer skills that are primarily straightforward and self-explanatory. For example, I don't have a problem with a DoT (damage over time) doing damage to the target and the attacker getting back resources like mana in the process. But in general, an ability should always have a clear target, be it friend, foe, itself or terrain (ground).
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
The number should be 0. As for held abilities, I am not one for it. I don't think much of this playstyle, as I've seen and played it as an evoker in other MMORPGs like WoW, and it felt very sluggish to me. I also got this impression from the video shown, while everything in combat seemed organic, the holding skills seemed clunky and out of place. Even when it comes to toggleable skills, I see it similarly, namely that they are out of place for me.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
I personally prefer Flash Cure not to be on a global cooldown. But it should also not be able to be used while using other spells.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
What excites me about playing as a healer class is the role of healer and supporter. Since Dark Age of Camelot, I love being the judge of life and death and keeping my party members alive. It always feels rewarding to me when I see at the end that I have kept them all alive, even if it has cost me a grey hair or two in my career.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
In conclusion, there are two things that bother me personally.
Firstly, I am not a fan of held abilities as they disrupt the harmonious flow of the game. I don't think they fit this archetype (or healing and support classes in general). A toggleable solution would not convince me either.
Secondly, I definitely have issues with the build-and-consume Divine Infusion mechanic. I already hated it when Holy Power was introduced for Paladins in WoW Cataclysm and later for Shamans and Priests in Legion with an equivalent bar. It broke the class fantasy for me that suddenly everyone got something like that for no significant reason, and all classes ended up playing the same, different only in the distance where you cast the spell. The problem I see with this is that it will just lead to wild key hammering without knowing exactly what you're doing. This experience has only strengthened me at the end of the Evoker.
Apart from that, I enjoyed the stream.
Thank you very much for reading through. I'm looking forward to the Bard, which hopefully won't have any held or build and consume mechanics.
I like the clean window frame layout. However, the font. UGH.. please change. At higher resolutions, I see that being hard to read.....Currently its tough to read in video at 4k res fullscreen and i'm on a 2k monitor. The ONLY thing AGS got right in New World was the UI Font (easy to read and crisp). Please go in that direction for UI font type
I also like the idea of scarcity in ability/spell based on other associations, accomplishments or synergies between archetypes that we haven’t seen yet.
I am sure a lot of people have commented on spell effects. I think you should consider some options. First, as a caster, you should have some way to scale up or down the spell effect for each of your abilities/spells. Some effects being visible makes sense, others not so much. For example, if you wanted a more subtle caster, you should have the option to tone it down. Second, in general players ought to have a way to adjust the spell effects on their displays in similar ways so that they can see what’s going on. Believe this has been mentioned, but there are effects that are beneficial to still stand out. Third, there ought to be the same risk-reward applied to effects. So say aggro increases proportionally to the intensity of the effect. That would also provide players an option to customize specific abilities/spells to generate a desired aggro. Example, the Tank/Cleric may want the aggro, whereas the Cleric/Tank may not. Bottom line, if players see the effects and can react to them, then so should the mobs or bosses.
I think held casting is the way for the player to customize the cost-benefit of the cast. So while some folks like a simple spam cast option, perhaps there would be a way for the player to customize or toggle these spells to switch between those options. Fast click vs hold would be the toggle, but if the button starts at the lower end of the scale you lose that. So maybe have the power start in the middle for a fraction of a second, drop down and then scale up. Part of that strategy would be to hold for a less powerful but less costly cast.
Please please do not pigeon hole into a single build once you have made that choice, to where every person who has that spec looks exactly the same. Options Options Options! Again yall have made some great steps in the direction of diverse combat mechanics and amount of skills in a kit.
For the Action Abilities such as the healing wave make sure their casting range is not too short. Since they are action based it needs some good range to it for it to feel good or else it will never land with people moving and hoping around all the time.
I am not sure about the yellow resource slowly gaining. I believe it would be better to have instant feedback in relation to your healing output. Or At least a more tactile punch? is what im looking for here. If you want the generation system to slowly build up still maybe apply 90% instantly on big heals.
Some things that i have enjoyed from cleric in the past that would help to finish out the kits:
Long term buffs - that apply to raids/party Thinking 30 min to hour long Stat modifiers
(Move Speed)(Overall Stat boost)(Cooldowns)
Short Term Buffs - Apply instant buffs that are stronger to other players
(Attack Speed)(Attack Power)(Cooldowns)(CC Duration)
Summoning party members/raid - The ability to summon party members in the same zone
Shields - Shields that last longer or apply to multiple people. I understand the idea of the typical 10 second health shield but we also need some longer lasting less/more impactful shields. Could be mix and matched with certain sub-class types.(some have more than others)
Examples:
Healing shield - Increases overall healing to the target
Stat Shield - Increases Defenses
Reflective Shield - reflects damage and heals =]
Anti-Crowd Control Shield
Cleanse Abilities - can be combined or even separate skills
Damage cleansing
CC Cleansing
Status Cleansing
Looks good. Although i am concerned what and how subclasses will play hearing, "It may not change anything but the look of some abilities.." Also needs more damaging spells (Hard to tell without subclass). Although the wands were nice in alpha 1 but was dull. Would have been nice to see magical staffs that have a heavier hit but a slower speed then the wand. Would be more useful for a healer who may be healing more and still want to throw around a few damaging auto-attacks. Wands seem more warlock/mage'ish. Although if was a thing wouldnt lock it by class. Cleric would still benefit more from it. It needs more damaging abilities. I hope that there are damage types ingame to help balance so it can get holy damage or radiant damage from aoe healing spells to do AOE damage too. There was no nearly enough damage spells, directly or by proxy. It does not seem viable to solo beyond just spamming wand. I would suggest just making the base abilities have dual use so they can be used to damage targets as well directly or indirectly.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
A little bit of both prolly 50/50 60/50 50/60
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
At least 3 from the plethora of about 20 you showed. Also, however 1/2 of those 3-4 charge spells should be movable and not immobilize you even at reduced moved speed. The point i think maybe in pvp might be to expend less mana and might be hard to optimize however to make it practical in some fights.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Not too sure yet since you said mana isnt balanced yet but seems like a dump. Just not sure in a good or bad way yet but the idea is interesting.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Generally healers are primary targets so im looking forward to trying to CC the crap out of them and zerg killing them. On the flip side i am interested in how some other classes will play into cleric dip in primary class or subclass and hope it will make things unique like a mage/cleric who may get minor healing to or from damaging spells.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Like i said i want to be able to notice the play style differences... just seeing a spell turn to some dark effect like a cleric/warlock build just doesn't cut it. Hope to be sure to get unique abilities with each mix as well as unique modifiers to already existing spells. The answer Steven gave that ive stated above: "It may not change anything but the look of some abilities.." concerns me greatly and i feel its a lazy way out. Also if so i hope a cleric/cleric abilities are like a cleric on roids in visual and talent.. Within reason of course..
Please add quick ways like a hotkey to choose who to heal/target that you can set to a few players or between a group of 5 including yourself.
Lastly, the godrays and graphics looks amazing, i like the nestled nook in cranny feel from the passageway to the ruin. I can only imagine how much more beautiful and encapsulating it will look throughout the seasons especially fall.