Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
How do you feel about the Cleric Archetype so far?
I liked what I saw! I felt the animations and spell abilities were top notch and the overall play style was very appealing.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
I think a mix of both is always best. Having your standard spells for each situation is great but also having dual purpose abilities such as DPS/Healing adds more variety.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
I think these should be reserved for more special abilities and makeup maybe 10-20% of the total abilities.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Its a nice mixup from other MMORPG. It should have a higher cost associated with it since it seems like an emergency ability.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
I really want to see more synergies between the Cleric and other classes.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
I played a shaman back in WoW up to WoW Wrath and always enjoyed the class. Being able to heal but also provide DPS and utility gave the Shaman a lot of play ability and freedom. It felt like I could partake in various different roles without being too strong in each one.
- Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
I really enjoy the animations and particle effects despite seeing a lot of concern regarding them being too flashy. I understand its still a WIP so once Alpha 2 comes around we will see how these effects overlap in large scale fights. But overall the effects are top notch!
[Edit]
One thing, but that's more UI related. Would we be able to have the healthbars and nameplates change collor depending on a set percentage of health? like orange between 50-75% and red below 50% or something like that. Maybe customizable by the player?
You nailed most of the basics and the overall direction is good and im confident you will nail it in the future.
For me it reached a state, where the only feedback id like give, is too deep for the information we currently get from the showcase.
For a further showcase of this class i would need to see:
-a coherent class kit, that is actually meant to be played (a level 20 snapshot of an average build)
- action targeting and skill shots
- augments
Secondly i would love to see interactions inbetween abilties.
Let me give an example from the current cleric kit.
Wings of Salvation currently can be used to dash towards a friendly target.
Divine Flare is an aoe heal triggered by entering the placed template.
You could add the possibility for Divine Flare to be a friendly target, thus opening up the possibility for the player to dash towards it with Wings of Salvation and tiggering the circle himself.
Thus adding to the possibilities and tactics for both abilities, by making it an escape combo. The cleric can can escpape now autonomously.
The augment system would also be a good opportunity to introduce these kind of things, which i suspect is gonna happen.
I loved the Cleric Archetype. Honestly, love the way you're following with the class. Of course there are some things that need some polish.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
I love the versatility of the abilities we saw on the stream, it's really cool to be able to decide on the fly if I want a single heal or a group heal (like in the heal chain example).
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
I'm not the biggest fan of charge skills, but it's true that having one in the skill kit seems great to me. As an additional resource to conventional skills.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
I don't know if I'm a big fan of being able to cast "Flash cure" while casting other abilities. Because, for example, for charging abilities, it will be a hassle to have to press another additional key while you maintain the previous ability.
Or for example if we are helping with the DPS and we want a quick cure to the tank we will have to stop the DPS. Therefore, I don't see the benefit of being able to use "Flash cure" while casting something else.
In my opinion a conventional "Flash cure", instant OGC that heals a good amount is better.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
I really enjoy playing any kind of healer/cleric, but the one I enjoy the most is a hard caster healer (WoW's Holy Priest, Aion's Clerics, ...)
Extra (?)
I'd implement more skills to use Cleric's unique resource, like some really power heals or instant ressurection.
Aurora Discord
I'm coming to the party pretty late here in terms of understanding where some of the other classes are at, as officially joined the preorder party, but, I watched the live stream twice over. I'm also not a healer main myself but there were some things that I did want to point out.
Overall, I'm super hyped, there's soo much to love here, from the abilities to the GODDD RAAAYYSSSS. I read through many of the comments here already to see how other people are perceiving this update as they've likely been involved longer than I have, this gave me much insight, and my god there are some amazing, thoughtful answers by your community, I'll never match that kind of answers that some people have already given.
Anyway, here are my two-cents on this update around the Cleric. Really happy with some of the abilities that are here, Conviction is awesome, it has to stay, ultimately you're rewarded for keeping up with your ability usage, there's no doubt that in some way mana management will be a part of the game so this is a good addition that serves a different dynamic. Awesome.
Divine Flare, this type of ability feels like it should be one that you're constantly using, in the heat of the moment, you'll always pop this one. One of my gripes with it is that I'm not an overly huge fan of the health distribution or mechanic, I would much rather see this type of ability costing more mana but providing HoT to all inside the area. The idea behind this is great but for me these types of abilities are a staple and I'd much rather see a higher cost with HoT instead. I can see a healer placing it down
Alternatively, because my view above then doesn't feel like a new unique ability (some games have these types of abilities already) and ultimately changes the work you guys did to create something different, keeping with the style as it is, add an effect whereby if you receive the heal (make it in time for the heal), also receive a short HoT, this would be a good compromise without completely disregarding the ability entirely, I'd be happy with this for sure!
That's a lot to speak about one ability sure.
Next, is Barrier, 25% of maximum health out of context of gameplay seems reasonable but I think actually it's quite a lot. I'm hoping you can not kill yourself if you are less than 25% of your max health. I wondered if you'd thought to use 25% of current health an if so, what were the reasons to opt for maximum health?
If I were to be a cleric, I probably wouldn't opt for the melee focused skills, I don't want to be in a situation where I've been damaged a lot and I have to use barrier and lose pretty much all of it but that's not to say that other people will love these! so not something I would want to change, just may not be in my personal repertoire.
As for the rest of the skills, I really would like to see how exactly skill point allocation works and when/where you get certain abilities because there are some abilities you can see are for the earlier levels.
Visual effects, I read some comments around how flashy the abilities seem but for me, it's quite the opposite. I love the flashiness, I'd rather the flashness be lessened in the final third of the animation to avoid that clutter as some have mentioned but, as a Cleric, people have to know I'm here. They have to see that animation flying through the air! that for me is what it's all about when these types of classes. I want people to know I has long ranged spells xD so the flashier the better imo
I liked the majority of the tempo the only slight point I had was during the larger fight in the live stream, I felt the Cleric was lacking a way out of danger, just running was all it had pretty much.
As I said, I'm super hyped about this, and looking forward to giving as much of my views as possible, though must admit, I'm not the usual hardcore mmo player, opting for more a chill play through in the evenings and weekends, meeting people etc so my views will be more lighter and sometimes "dumber" ha
anyways!
Look forward to the next update, thanks so much for all you and the teams hard work as a software engineer, I very much understand the immense amount of efforts and work that must be going into this.
p.s. Margaret, I really thought you had fluffy wings on throughout the stream
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
This is the only thing I really have feedback on. Very cool mechanic. Adds depth and skill gap. My very boring feedback is to just not go overboard with it, don't over gimick-up the combat. Some skills having a "held" mechanic creates variety and different layers of strategy. All skills having a "held" mechanic is gimicky and tedious. So just find a good balance.
Much improved from the second a1 set of abilities. The first set of a1 abilities should be reinstated too. I much prefer the current iteration to the previous iteration.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
I prefer to have abilities that can double as attack or heal. I also prefer leech abilities, damage to heal abilities and also preemptive buffs to increase healing from damage.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
I think no more than 5 would be best. The gameplay will be too static and slow with too many held abilities. Difficult to hold an ability and move at the same time. Though preemptive healing is increased with the functions shown.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Seems reasonable. Much like a bandage function. I suppose the animation won't be an sanitation cancel so I have no issues with the current stance. I do like the idea that some heals can be thrown out into combat whilst a cleric does damage.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
Interrupts will be a nightmare. The cleric will suffer from silences too. I feel the cleric is headed in the right direction and I also feel the cleric has improved since the ogre dev stream.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
DnD Cleric. Baldur's Gate Cleric. High damage capability and high healing capability. Dependent on input rng and positional stance.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Concerned about lack of damage skills. Seems to be stacked towards healing which isn't bad at end game but sucks balls at lower levels. Also, not viable to hold ones own in a pvp match up.
This gives me great hope, for the game-to-be! Yours truly is planning on playing a High Priest (Cleric/Cleric), so it's good to know the development is on-par. Looks fun and relatively balanced, at this time.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
Would prefer abilities that might be empowered by the use of another ability. This was present in the demonstration somewhat, though might be emphasized to a wider scope and include many more "just-used" dependencies on other skills. I.E. Flash Cure could empower 2 or 3 different abilities, BUT it will only do it for the 1st of the 2 or 3 other abilities that could next be used.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
2 is probably fine for most classes, though certain Mage-combos/focii might be an exception.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
Probably not a good idea. Have come to view it as a backup while other abilities are on cooldown.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
I really hope that Clerics will receive some kind of small benefit from choosing each of the different religions. SS mentioned that Clerics' gifts won't be given by the gods - but that doesn't mean that a player who has joined a religion and also happens to be a Cleric couldn't also receive some small, non-game-breaking benefit, from being a part of a religion's following. Not really looking forward to 1v1's of Cleric/Cleric versus Cleric/Cleric, though; Feels like such a match-up would result in some VERY long fights that are more-dependent upon which player feels like hanging in there, the longest.
What are your favorite Cleric archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Jedi Sage was my fav in SWTOR. It dealt/deals with BOTH healing/recovery AND protections against damage, for other players.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
Well, we saw the basic Cleric, in the showcase; We didn't really get a peek at Cleric mixes. As "trope" as it might sound? Clerics could probably feature class-mixes that have different effects upon the Undead. I.e. some might do direct damage to a group of undead, some might affect others around them to do more damage vs the undead, some might channel an ability that made the undead non-aggressive, some might gain control/servitude of the undead, for a short time.
The art team is just KILLING it!
I am so glad you gave the healers multiple spells to pick and choose from and just doing a little thinking I can imagine scenarios where each would come into play.
I am also VERY glad that you didn't go the 3 button wonder toon/healbot way that many do these days.
I am also liking the charge abilities very much, these will be most valuable during any pvp scenario.
I am very anxious to see the darker side of the cleric and it's damage output capabilities when tweaked and given augments.
I hardly ever play healer, but after seeing this showcase I will be trying one out during Alpha2.
Keep up the great work, Intrepid! Everyone on the team is doing stellar work!
Nothing about this screams "Next gen". Literally every upcoming MMO has better combat than Ashes of Creation, but of course, your community is going to shower you with praise and positive feedbacks.
A long heal. A quick heal. A heal over time. A barrier. Can't go wrong with the standard stuff, and that is fine.
What's not fine, however, is the gameplay itself. It's so damn slow and boring!! In addition to that, you plan to add global cooldowns?!!!! Please don't, anything but the FF14 killer.
What I want to see is Mobility, like the Wings of Salvation (copied from Archeage btw, with the wings too).
Don't just stand there and press 12345. Or even worse, spam one skill(Deliverance) over and over again with 4 seconds casting time and no cooldown, this is really really bad and boring...
Besides, wouldn't a %missing health skill defeat the purpose of having multiple healing spells? With a 25% health Barrier too, it sounds as if you're encouraging Clerics to invest ~80% of their stats towards tankiness.
Since you're copying from Archeage, let's take a look at how long the casting time on the main healing skill (Antithesis) is... it's 1 second!!! Why not copy that, too?
Back to the topic of mobility, AA's healer had so many mobility options, although it was mostly from other skill trees, mounts, and gliders, all used mid-combat. I hope Ashes's Cleric can achieve an even better level of mobility without relying on items. An action combat level of mobility, and I'm NOT talking about rolling on the ground.
Next problematic skill is the Stun. I thought tab target skills couldn't hard CC? First we got the mage with Sleep spell, and now this. What is the counterplay to that? These skills need to be changed. Or you know, you could just introduce superarmors, iframes and blocking for all classes. A mage can't block with staff/wand/spellbook but can toggle a barrier skill or an Earth attack that deals damage and protects the caster in the front at the same time. In BDO, skills that do CC mostly don't have superarmor/frontal guard, which make them risky to use if timed or positioned poorly. Please play BDO's equalized PVP and see how far behind and out of touch you are.
Next point: Circle skills, the GW2 killer?(Watch first 2 minutes of it).
First, there has to be other ways to casting circular skills besides left clicking the ground! Clicking is a bad design, you want to use your mouse to turn the camera 99% of time.
Divine Flare didn't have casting time but the circle itself have a delayed activation, it's OK, we don't want instant heal spam, but the delay was too long. What if multiple allies are far away and need a quick AoE heal? Click on their names one by one? I hope the range is long and castable while moving. Perhaps you could make it activate manually by pressing the skill again, like Lux from League of Legends.
Chain of Restraint, another CC skill that needs to be reworked, for a different reason.
It needs a better warning other than a magic circle on the caster. Isn't the combat balanced around group PvP? Imagine this skill in a group PVP scenario. You don't know where the healer is aiming at without a warning circle on the ground 1 second before it takes effect.
The big bright circle lasts on the ground for 9 SECONDS. This needs to be changed to just 1 hit, instead of damage over time. Watch the GW2 video above, things like this make the melee class experience in group PVP pure stress, unfun. Where do melees fight when the battlefield is filled with ground circles and meteors? Oh, speaking of the mage's meteor, chaos-maker skills like that should have very long cooldowns, like 10 minutes long, but in that case they must be stronger. Look up Meteor Shower from Rappelz.
Mend could have been a cool action combat skill with larger AoE and multiple target healing in a linear path, in heart shape maybe. Why the extreme focus on tab target?!
Another idea, Mend could be a multipurpose spell that throw heals and simultaneously does backward leaps when it's used while holding S or shift. Cleric can already leap with wings. (EDIT: Same for Wings of Salvation, make it usable both with and without target to provide mobility. Skills in Ashes of Creation cost skill points. Don't make too many skills that are rarely used or entirely selfless, like Resurrection, it's a must-have skill for group activity, normally healers in other MMOs would reset their skill tree to unlock it temporarily, is it even a good idea that it costs skill points? more skills, more fun)
I'll stop here, sorry if I offended anyone. Been here since 2017 and I'm starting to lose faith.
I've informed the devs about the issues around ground skills since 2018. The devs are set on ground skills. Furthermore, I've tried to highlight the issues around the hybrid systems, the hard cc on base archetypes, the issue around Global Cooldowns and the reasons why we only needed them on early internet, plus the need for more variation, mobility and less static dispossession for all classes not just the cleric, yet, the devs do not listen at all and are continuing down the route of changing the dynamics through stealth parameters and then giving us these threads to hide behind. There are of course valid concerns at all points, for all current classes shown but good luck getting the devs to change the dynamics after 5 years of trying.
lol, have you considered the possibility that there are people that don't want korean combat like BDO, and are happy with hybrid combat games like GW2, ESO etc?
thank god, I want to play intrepid's game, not a game made by committee based on what BDO and New World players think is good combat
You see, GW2 and AA are very mobile in terms of combat. We do not want BDO combat or action combat. We want combat that is equal or better than the combat aoc takes inspiration from. Not this half house, half assed, static shebang.
I honestly think it's amazing, and if the rest of the abilities, toolkits, etc. were designed with a similar mindset to what was presented in the showcase, then the cleric is in fantastic shape for launch.
Do you prefer abilities that have more single and specific uses, or abilities that have versatility with how they can be used?
I believe a mix of both is always welcome. Having mend be a straightforward heal is great. Having heals with inductions that can be used partway through is also refreshing and unique. Overall, versatility is appreciated, but if every skill can be used in several different ways, it can be a little cumbersome to the class, unless of course the class is intended to be more advanced.
How many held abilities (think abilities you hold down or charge) do you prefer in an Archetype kit?
I think in a total archetype kit, maybe 3-4, 5 is possible but pushing it, as held down abilities ought to be the most risk vs. reward abilities with the biggest output, depending on the nature of the ability and total abilities.
How do you feel about being able to use Flash Cure during other abilities?
I absolutely loved it. I thought it was, once again, refreshing and unique compared to other abilities. I also enjoyed that there was no global cooldown, with animations existing as a global cooldown so to speak. It was great, flash cure was awesome.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Cleric Archetype?
The versatility of abilities present, and how even though they are all heal based, they perform in very different ways, with different healing skills most beneficial at different times. Fighting against a cleric would also be enjoyable, as several abilities can be counteracted in so many different ways, such as being able to interrupt held abilities, stunning a cleric before they can use wings of salvation, and being able to predict which variety of skill the cleric may use next.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric Archetype?
I truly did enjoy the animations, they were phenomenal, utilizing light and prisms as opposed to an ordinary green effect, or with the notion of holiness. The fact that the cleric's focal point is to heal coupled with its unique and varied design is extremely impressive, with the designers being able to creating heal ability after heal ability and be so unique in each creation is something to be applauded, also increasing my excitement.
I'm pleased the devs brought back Instant cast heals but there is still a lack of mobility. The held heals seem to promote static behaviours, it is difficult to judge mobility until I can play myself. I can't tell if the staticness comes from Stevens play style or from the archetypes.
The devs laughed about the tank not needing to run so far to pull mobs and then proceed to state 'your heals have promoted threat and its difficult to pull the adds of you steven' when Steven was the one to pull the mobs in the first place lol.
Limited mobility while casting is usually a balance for PvP. I'd say to maybe allow for a mobile build at the cost of effectiveness with abilities
Balance for pvp? Tell me, how will a healer keep up with the front lines if they have to stop to cast? And wasn't an issue in a1, cleric had mobility and instant casts but these last two iterations have looked horrible for pvp.
As I recall, cleric was broken as hell in A1.
And as someone who has been prominent in many group PvP communities across several games for PvP in large groups, not arenas. I can say you have to be aware as a group of where your healer is, and communicate with them at all times. Knowing when to fall back to protect your healer and when to stop chasing too far is a major part of large scale PvP. And range is a key part for healer the front lines as well, just have to time things right since you'll be a prime target when in range.
Cleric wasn't broken. Cleric was op. The other two classes were shite though. Can't really glean how something fairs when the only two other archetypes were utter rubbish in comparison.
There are two ways to build a healer. Melee or ranged. Ranged healers will have no issue about standing around - we saw that on the dev stream. How will a melee healer fair with holding down heals in a pvp environment? The melee healers will be in the front and will not be able to stay there lol.
I saw 1 'melee' heal. And if you're referring to secondary archetypes, they should make that gameplay possible if that's what is intended. We have no reason yet to believe some cleric archetypes will or will not be able to hold their own on front lines, though I'd hope some can and others can't, giving different values and gameplay to each, and each having their tradeoffs as needed. Being able to run around at will popping off casts at full strength is a bit much in pvp.
You could do more than run around popping skills in GW2 and AA and the pvp was stellar. Takes far more skill to be on the move popping skills than it does to be static and clicking your skills. Its probably why we don't see much movement at all when Steven plays. We have no auto attacks so repositioning bosses mean that dps has to slacken. Also, the tank couldn't match the range of the ranged players which means groups will be a nightmare.
Then we have the gap closers. Though, I haven't seen an interrupt yet which makes the combat shallow as fuck. Then on top of that, no cc trinkets to get out of cc on a cooldown timer, again makes the combat shallow as fuck. Also, the charge to ally and heal is a nice little boon but no ranged healer will want to spec in that. I imagine that is the start of the melee healer but again, not much melee will be done if the melee healer has to hold abilities down. You don't see held heals in the majority of MMOs with PvP for a reason - those pvp games have interrupts and silences which kills a melee healer without the correct trinkets and anti measures.
I was massively active in WvW for Gw2 before they changed stability for the worse. Heals weren't so much the big factor as much as removing debuffs and providing buffs en masse, as well as stacking up for rebuffing, charging through as one and spamming stability and using self heals/defensives to deal with big group battles and big damage. The PvP battleground scene was definitely different though. Hell even warriors rezzed down allies. Healing played its part by it mostly getting healed after an initial charge and using your own heals to stay alive through it to get to that point.
As far as skill goes, that'd be true if it was single target actions, most heals in gw2 were AoE, unless they were self heals.
We don't have a clue what anti-cc, interrupts, items, etc will be available yet so this is sort of a moot point, but I agree that without them it will be a negative to combat, both PvP and PvE. Gap closers will be a large indicator of how much movement to provide, the healing one alone provides an escape for clerics, or an engage to follow up with a CC. It's a very promising and versatile ability.
And again, melee healers could be a thing, but work differently than the typical cleric/cleric based on augments. And you also need to remember any class can use any item type. So having a cleric in full plate is entirely possible for a Frontline healer. We can even speculate that a cleric/guardian may very well have defensive bonuses to heals, further granting the possibility of a Frontline healer.
A cleric/caster on the other hand would likely want to stay out of melee engagements when possible.
All of that being said, mobility should be allowed as long as it's balanced with the effectiveness of the heals. It's the same concept as a wreckingball class being super tanky and dealing high damage, you balance them by making them slow as hell.
There was backlash about aoe heals for the Cleric. Which i think is a shame really. I would prefer mouse over heals if the heals are single target, and, mouse over attacks to compliment the mouse over heals. My experience was to load HoTs and spot heal the charges. Focussed efforts and pushes through. The line would fragment or the line would hold. Heals could dictate whether the flanks would succeed or fail. The main thrust in the centre was more about speed and buff stacking like you mention.
I feel we will discuss buff stacking for large scale pvp when Bard is revealed so I won't touch on that too much now. However, static dispositions favour ranged classes and a ranged healer would be most suited to the style on offer. I can't really comment on augments from secondary classes but I see Tank augments to be defensive in nature. You also have minimal self heals unless you run Cleric secondary to my knowledge. It means Cleric secondary probably isn't worth the investment, you can still heal yourself with the current skill sets.
I've pvp'd with healers and without healers. Movement has been critical when there are no healers and movement can be less critical when there are healers. Again though, I believe the movement should be balanced and be a staple to the combat. Better to be fully mobile and balance the skills around that than to be static. There will be a lot of casting on the floor which I detest, thus, movement will be critical to move out of these floor casts. Otherwise, you will need even more healing to cover the avoidable damage unless all avoidable damage becomes unavoidable damage by default.
If the unavoidable damage becomes default, pvp will have bigger issues. It would boil down to unavoidable damage and static dispositions. A kind of pvp on rails. Its why staticness is less desired and mobility is king. The more static a combat sphere remains, the more healing is required to get the same level of performance. I've said GW2 is based around mobility and the aoc hybrid combat should be the same. The scope for greatness is there but I feel the aims are too low right now.