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The case for gear to provide more than 40-50% of a characters power.

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Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah we are, because I could say 'The game is PvX' and others will say 'PvX' is a non existent game mode and a buzz term with no substance. Just like you've claimed its softcore which is a buzz word with no substance. You couldn't explain why you think its softcore and I know for a fact the game is not like candy crush. Therefore, softcore terms need not apply.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    Yeah we are, because I could say 'The game is PvX' and others will say 'PvX' is a non existent game mode and a buzz term with no substance. Just like you've claimed its softcore which is a buzz word with no substance. You couldn't explain why you think its softcore and I know for a fact the game is not like candy crush. Therefore, softcore terms need not apply.

    we? no. you can, have fun Skippy :smile:
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Excellent. Thank you for your delightful input with little substantive essence on why you believe the game is softcore. It's enough in the modern world to promote a label, have no deeper attachment and just walk off feeling superior in a little bubble.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    well, that's some good fluff I'll give you credit for that vague reply.
    It's a softcore game with "hardcore"-like features diluted down to a nice marshmallow like design. You can imagine however hardcore you think it is. It's not full care bear but it reminds me of a build your own cupcake station with a bunch of toppings to choose from. Sure, people can play it as hardcore as they want within the games design but going past that is quite delusional. It doesn't even hit the mid-core design standards especially if going by the risk vs reward scale.

    Expectations vs Reality.

    Dont worry, there's lots stuck on the hype-train with imaginations running rampant from buzz words and copium. If you actually take the time to evaluate and look at the game features in a bigger picture, there is not as much risk in comparison to the reward. Take marketing into effect, it's going to attract a very softcore demographic and currently already has predominately and will continue to do so because of thematic and feature design.

    As I said, it's a not a bad thing per se, it's just what it is and there's lots of softcore games with similar features to compare it to assuming one can even tell the difference from an actual hardcore experience.

    Did i ever think it was going to be on the hardcore side of the scale? no. They've made that clear a long time ago. Does seem like they don't even want it to be on the mid-core scale. I wonder if it will even keep me entertained for than a couple months with above casual hours.

    I currently don't see my self wanting to fork over hundreds of dollars for an alpha 2 key and pointless cosmetics. Hope they prove me wrong! lol
    Pot calling kettle black with this wordpuke of a comment. You literally said nothing, while writing 5 fucking paragraphs of the very buzzwords you mentioned.

    Give a direct comparison to another softcore game. You said there's several of those that you can compare it to, so do it.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you base your opinion on. Each server will be different but the game bones are not softcore.

    it's definitely on the softcore side of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that.

    What would you consider an equivalent softcore game and why? I still don't think the game is softcore.

    it's softcore, explain to me why it's not :smile:

    This is a point on someone that doesn't do PvP. All hardcore pvpers are interested in the game based on what we know of the pvp which is a perfect fit.

    Legit just a WoW PvE player.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    well, that's some good fluff I'll give you credit for that vague reply.
    It's a softcore game with "hardcore"-like features diluted down to a nice marshmallow like design. You can imagine however hardcore you think it is. It's not full care bear but it reminds me of a build your own cupcake station with a bunch of toppings to choose from. Sure, people can play it as hardcore as they want within the games design but going past that is quite delusional. It doesn't even hit the mid-core design standards especially if going by the risk vs reward scale.

    Expectations vs Reality.

    Dont worry, there's lots stuck on the hype-train with imaginations running rampant from buzz words and copium. If you actually take the time to evaluate and look at the game features in a bigger picture, there is not as much risk in comparison to the reward. Take marketing into effect, it's going to attract a very softcore demographic and currently already has predominately and will continue to do so because of thematic and feature design.

    As I said, it's a not a bad thing per se, it's just what it is and there's lots of softcore games with similar features to compare it to assuming one can even tell the difference from an actual hardcore experience.

    Did i ever think it was going to be on the hardcore side of the scale? no. They've made that clear a long time ago. Does seem like they don't even want it to be on the mid-core scale. I wonder if it will even keep me entertained for than a couple months with above casual hours.

    I currently don't see my self wanting to fork over hundreds of dollars for an alpha 2 key and pointless cosmetics. Hope they prove me wrong! lol
    Pot calling kettle black with this wordpuke of a comment. You literally said nothing, while writing 5 fucking paragraphs of the very buzzwords you mentioned.

    Give a direct comparison to another softcore game. You said there's several of those that you can compare it to, so do it.

    New world, now he cant use it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not softcore though. I could have the same conversation with another person who will claim its too hardcore. Its all dependent on perspective and the facts are relative to experience.

    If it's hardcore to what you're used to, I cant deny you that opinion or perspective. But by design and what they've announced in the past, it's NOT a hardcore game.

    what are these design elements that make a game hardcore?
    are you talking about dying and losing your items like in albion or mortal online or are you talking about something else?
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.

    0 logic as usual, leave it to instanced dungeon andy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.

    0 logic as usual, leave it to instanced dungeon andy

    too easy :smile:
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.

    0 logic as usual, leave it to instanced dungeon andy

    too easy :smile:

    Yup you are proving you can't back up any of your statements all you can do is type :). ) logic in your post at this point.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.

    I can tell you now why the game is not softcore. The whole design philosophy has been created by old hardcore gamers. Which means the levelling is extremely long. There's no 1vs1 balance and you'll be nuked by your hard counter anyway. The ow pvp will be disastrous for you unless you're in at least an 8 person group. We've seen how the devs can't balance the healer, wait until we see the buffer. At least with the healer you can add anti-heal debuffs but anti-buff debuffs will still make players 100% efficient rather than over 100% efficient. Sure, you can throw in extra debuffs on top but then the debuffs have no counter and the debuffers will nuke everyone. How do you counter debuffs when buffs are already countered?

    The dev's favourite bosses make the game softcore because the dungeons are based on old bosses which were really bad with bad mechanics. All the games the game is inspired by has had rubbish bosses though. However, at least we won't get a wow clone. Furthermore, the class structures come from Archeage which means the main classes are actually 8 and the rest are just variations with similar rotations. This means the balance will be extremely difficult to achieve but none existent due to the hardcore elements inherent between the base 8 which I mentioned before. Moving closer to one hard counter means you'll potentially have two hard counters or 1 and 1/2 hard counters but I digress back into hardcore issues lol.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.

    0 logic as usual, leave it to instanced dungeon andy

    too easy :smile:
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.

    0 logic as usual, leave it to instanced dungeon andy

    too easy :smile:

    Yup you are proving you can't back up any of your statements all you can do is type :). ) logic in your post at this point.

    keep going :smile: maybe you'll get to the simple revelation.
    Neurath wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    You definitely attempted tangential validation as a group effort :smile: Seem more focused on trying to get to people agree with you rather than logic. Sad part is, it's evident across many of the participant conversations.

    I can tell you now why the game is not softcore. The whole design philosophy has been created by old hardcore gamers. Which means the levelling is extremely long. There's no 1vs1 balance and you'll be nuked by your hard counter anyway. The ow pvp will be disastrous for you unless you're in at least an 8 person group. We've seen how the devs can't balance the healer, wait until we see the buffer. At least with the healer you can add anti-heal debuffs but anti-buff debuffs will still make players 100% efficient rather than over 100% efficient. Sure, you can throw in extra debuffs on top but then the debuffs have no counter and the debuffers will nuke everyone. How do you counter debuffs when buffs are already countered?

    The dev's favourite bosses make the game softcore because the dungeons are based on old bosses which were really bad with bad mechanics. All the games the game is inspired by has had rubbish bosses though. However, at least we won't get a wow clone. Furthermore, the class structures come from Archeage which means the main classes are actually 8 and the rest are just variations with similar rotations. This means the balance will be extremely difficult to achieve but none existent due to the hardcore elements inherent between the base 8 which I mentioned before. Moving closer to one hard counter means you'll potentially have two hard counters or 1 and 1/2 hard counters but I digress back into hardcore issues lol.

    Do you not get dizzy from going in circles in all the conversations you have until you get the validation you're hoping for?

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I didn't seek validation. I answered your question from earlier. Its not a nice experience to be honest.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    I didn't seek validation. I answered your question from earlier. Its not a nice experience to be honest.

    Too fixated to even notice I see.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I have a lot of knowledge about the game except no outlet. So, i reflected on our discussion and decided to be open and honest. Gives some release at least.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    Enigmatic Sage wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not softcore though. I could have the same conversation with another person who will claim its too hardcore. Its all dependent on perspective and the facts are relative to experience.

    If it's hardcore to what you're used to, I cant deny you that opinion or perspective. But by design and what they've announced in the past, it's NOT a hardcore game.

    what are these design elements that make a game hardcore?
    are you talking about dying and losing your items like in albion or mortal online or are you talking about something else?

    .
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The classes could be balanced like Guild Wars 1, however, the Hard Counter aspect probably disables such balance. Not that the devs want to balance for 1vs1.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    To be fair, the only reason a hardcore MMO PvP player would play Ashes is because they don't want to play EVE, and have nothing else.

    A hardcore PvE player wouldn't play Ashes.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Boom
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Ok, so I was wrong and it is "the stronger the weapon, the higher the influence on player power". Well, guess no upwards fighting after all.

    Will have to see how it ends up, but for now I dislike this.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    To be fair, the only reason a hardcore MMO PvP player would play Ashes is because they don't want to play EVE, and have nothing else.

    A hardcore PvE player wouldn't play Ashes.

    To be fair, the only reason someone is going to play this game is because they don't want to play other games.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Ok, so I was wrong and it is "the stronger the weapon, the higher the influence on player power". Well, guess no upwards fighting after all.

    Will have to see how it ends up, but for now I dislike this.

    Leave the "fight upwards" to the skilled. Bye
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Ok, so I was wrong and it is "the stronger the weapon, the higher the influence on player power". Well, guess no upwards fighting after all.

    Will have to see how it ends up, but for now I dislike this.

    There will be upwards fighting mate. Its just going to be rough.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    Leave the "fight upwards" to the skilled. Bye
    25 pages and you still haven't understood that your ability to show off your skill in L2 only existed because the gear wasn't as impactful as you want it to be.
    mgx6ua8xyxsv.gif
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Lol I showed my skill in eso as well without meta sets.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    Lol I showed my skill in eso as well without meta sets.
    sza0zxwi79we.gif
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Thanks
  • Ace1234Ace1234 Member
    edited October 2023
    The point is that even if you are the best player in the game, it reduces the skill needed for a better geared player to kill you, when the gear power-gap is too large, not a very complicated concept imo
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The philosophy of most casual PvPers is 'Wait for max level and max gear to PvP'. This is all in aid of balance. Its not a good philosophy in an owmmo but the devs gave us the corruption system. Thus, owpvp will be even less likely to occur, corruption will be even more likely to occur and bounty hunters will be killed by hard counters.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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