Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
You are literally the first one who started misinterpreting what I said, and assuming stuff about me that are untrue. I will call out anyone who does that.
There have been people who disagreed with my points, but didn't resort to such behavior, and with those people I can actually have a conversation about the topic.
Because there's only one response to have.
Learning how to summon points without flipping all the possibly opposing people to defense mode is an Internet Skill.
Perhaps you should tell the OP that they just need to git gud.
The point at which such attempts at controling the direction of a situation turn towards that of being sociopath is when you attempt to indirectly manipulate, not when you openly talk about it.
So no, you are wrong here.
HEY DONT YOU INTERFERE WHEN IM TEASING / PROVOKING HIM. he didnt realize that ;3
i said it half jokingly, half serious though. he is acting in the same way he doesnt want people to act
Like why can't we have a normal discussion on these forums, without trolls constantly derailing every single topic.
I don't see how I'm acting in the same way at all, you're just projecting.
And if you can't help yourself but do this constantly, then I'm just going to block you and move on.
i just think it's a silly topic. you still have the freedom to post it though. but its just one more of those topics that pop up every now and then.
edit: probably as silly as the AI topics that keep popping up ;3
It's not silly. If you've never encountered such people in MMOs, then you might just be one of them (here's me trying to do the assuming stuff about the other person part).
It's a valid concern to bring up, especially because Intrepid are aware of it, and are putting systems in place to prevent them ruining the game for others.
We've got that out of the way already, we know corruption system will be there in the game, so I'm not asking them to change the game design.
What I'm trying to do is create a discussion around this topic, whether people want to share their own experiences, or their thoughts on the best ways to solve the issue (if they even see it as an issue, in general not just in Ashes), etc. Whether they think some of those people are mentally handicapped in a way, or if it's only the online world and the game itself that's making them behave in such a way, or even if such behavior could be considered sociopathic, or if it's just normal due to game's design.
But instead of that, we have people coming in trying to derail the thread, projecting, throwing personal attacks and making assumptions about me and my character, or just missing the entire point and arguing about something else. Whether that's because they feel called out, whether they found themselves in the description, but can't accept it, or whatever else, I don't know.
what if they arent really sociopaths? they are just roleplaying and going on a campaign to exterminate the enemy faction or something. are you against roleplayers? they didnt kill you for no reason, they killed you simply because you are the enemy.
its like seeing an enemy soldier in a war. if you dont shoot first, they will shoot you.
you are free to post about whatever you want, but we are free to comment however we want as well ;3
What if they aren't? Well we are here to discuss those possibilities, finally we are getting somewhere.
I agree, if the game feels like a war, you definitely do see others as enemies that want to kill you.
The issue here is, the game needs to create that feeling of war in that case. I haven't experienced it, but I'd say early WoW had that sort of a feeling. Another game I used to play, Allods Online, definitely had that sort of a feeling as well, because as soon as you get to the first PvP zone, it feels like 2 sides are at war, and that you could encounter enemies anywhere. Even the story and the setting was about 2 sides going at war with each other constantly (+ the PvP kills during leveling would give you some nice xp).
Archeage, for me, just doesn't create that feeling. Like sure, you know there are 2(3) factions, and that sometimes you can encounter them, or that you are at war during certain mass PvP events, but it's missing that feeling of there being an actual war out there in the world.
So it's a matter of lazy game design in that case probably, or just an oversight, but a lot of players could've just defaulted to behaving in a certain way after years of playing other types of faction MMOs, that they just translate that behavior into Archeage, and other games as well.
Is Ashes going to have such a setting? Well, I do not think so, because there won't be a faction system present, where 2 sides are at a constant war with each other.
However, I feel like if some guilds decide to be assholes, and just PK on sight other people, that's their choice, but there will be consequences to that behavior, both in terms of corruption, and everyone else knowing that they are PKers, treating them as an enemy, and dealing with them accordingly. It's the closest thing to having "factions", but I still feel that they're massive assholes at the best, or straight up sociopaths at the worst if they choose engage in such behavior, especially if they only do it in order to mess with other people and ruin their experience. If it is for some gain/reward then I would at least somewhat understand it.
Also, this is one of your semi-joking lines I'm guessing, but just because you are free to do something, doesn't mean you should do it. It applies to PKing in MMOs, but it also applies to commenting whatever you want to on forums, especially if it's not contributing to the discussion and is constantly derailing the topic (not aimed at you particularly, there are a few others that do it constantly).
cause it the only content they have while the game is thin air :P
for example, one of their alts got pked by a high level in that area, so they come in and pk thinking they will pk the alt of that person. so they will pk you thinking you are that person.
they might want to kill people because something important will respawn soon in that area.
they might simply be looking for pvp. they kill you, you call your friends, then fight. then the area becomes a battle fireld, which is really fun i must say.
maybe they will simply kill you for being inside an enemy's guild.
many reasons that might seem to you as "they are just assholes"
A few people have mentioned about this idea of 'NPCs that just pursue you constantly'.
We have that.
If you take a Delivery Mission in Elite Dangerous for a huge amount of precious metals, and go to a system with Pirates, sometimes it will spawn Pursuers. These Pursuers will HUNT you. I mean like 'halfway across civilized space' hunt you.
They do not relent. They do not care about security much. They do not pull punches, they are set somewhat according to your level of demonstrated skill +/- a level or two based on the mission params. The only way to stop them is to destroy them, finish, or abandon the mission.
You can run from them, but nearly no ship with the chance of finishing the mission can easily do this enough times. For most missions, they fly some of the strongest NPC ships in the game, and on a few, they fly the strongest ships in the game PERIOD.
To me, the difference between this and a PK-er is only that when I finally do get people together (if necessary) and shoot down this enemy, they are down. They stop coming. And for this reason, that's my response. Figure out a way to kill them. It's fun, sometimes.
Other times, they are able to shut down ALL OTHER GAMEPLAY. You cannot go to wars, they drop in to kill you there. You can't go exploring easily, they chase you for literal hours. You can't survey planets, they might attack you in a way that makes you crash into the surface and be immediately destroyed, and even if not that, they can sometimes at least make you unable to line up for a planetary landing. None of those disruptions are guaranteed, but they're all enough of a risk that until you have defeated this target (usually four of them in succession, actually) you cannot safely do anything else.
But even then, the goal is just 'defeat the target'. Sure, you might log off for the day if none of your friends are on, or you might even 'ditch the mission', and we could discuss in general what types of players just 'avoid these missions altogether'.
But if you ever wanted a definition of how it is not the same, Pirate Pursuers are a good one. They have a reason for hunting you. They can be relentless about it and block off all other gameplay paths until you give up, which is their objective.
But that's the point. Their objective is not 'to destroy you because you happen to be in their sights'. Their relentlessness is not the concern. Compare that to a ganker in a Fer-de-Lance who attacks because you exist, in a ship that has sacrificed literally everything else for combat ability, and the problem has to be solved another way. (ED works because they give up even jump range so you can theoretically just leave and they can't follow you, but most people of equal skill cannot fight them).
I can't speak with certainty toward their mindset, there's some situations where getting practice like this might be valid, but those are usually so much better achieved elsewhere, that combined with their usual personalities presented in chat, you wouldn't be crazy to consider them to be sociopathic.
Literally your entire post is making assumptions about people's character and motivation because they enjoy a aspect of a game you do not. You yourself say systems are already in place, yet still choose to "have a discussion" about this topic.
Your motivation is paper thin, and since you yourself say precautions are already in place, the topic is moot, and only exists to provoke.
Extremely odd and telling that you think it's a personal attack when you're literally judging people's characters. The irony.
You are falling into the classic pitfall of thinking your opinion is the only one that is right, and basically everyone is telling you this is the case and you may just be wrong. I understand you are taking it personally, but maybe this game isn't for you... I don't mean this is a nasty or negative way, but the hope many of us have is that there will be friction and it sounds like you actively avoid/dislike content like this. Additionally, you cite AA as your favorite MMO but balance your entire argument on the fact that AA also features this thing you detest so much to rile up an entire forum and when anyone tries to add context/discuss you just shut it down.
Maybe it's worth waiting for A2 and seeing if you are into the game or not.
The difference is, you are attacking a specific person here, in this case myself. I am not attacking any specific person here, I'm just describing certain behavior, from certain people that do certain stuff in MMORPGs - so that's not all MMORPG players that do PvP in open-world, but only about very specific people in specific situations. People attacking me are actually going personal, I am not.
I'm guessing that you just found yourself in my original post, and that you are one of those people, so you decided to hit back at me, because your feelings got hurt. Or am I also assuming too much here?
It's not about other people enjoying a certain aspect of the game that I'm not enjoying, because you are not the first one to come here to imply I dislike PvP, or more specifically OWPvP. That is not the case at all.
What's wrong with having a discussion btw? You can literally just ignore this whole thread if you don't want to have one, it's that easy.
I've answered this exact thing over and over again in this thread.
No, my opinion is not the only one that is right. If you think it's wrong, please come in with actual arguments instead of derailing the topic and attacking me. A few people have already disagreed, but have done so in a normal manner, actually arguing the points, and not assuming something about me.
"But maybe this game isn't for you" - is always going to be read in a negative way by me, because it mostly comes from a place of not understanding the topic at hand, and what the argument is all about. Feel free to read throughout the replies in this thread, and you may come to the conclusion that in fact I do not dislike OWPvP, but only a specific thing that happens in OWPvP that could be avoided if people were somewhat decent human beings, or if there were systems in place to prevent it.
Can you please point me to the instance of me doing this btw: "when anyone tries to add context/discuss you just shut it down"? I generally do not remember it, maybe it just went over my head.
Agreed. Labeling an entire group of players that enjoy pvp, politics or any other aspect of a game other than what I ENJOY as sociopaths or psychopaths is pretty toxic. How dare players kill players in another faction or engage in politics in a realm that isn't real life. It's almost like they're role playing in a massively multiplayer online game or something.
If only there was an acronym to describe this. Ah well, maybe someday we will.
Misrepresented my whole post and argument. Congrats.
I realize I shouldn't have even commented. Every single post of yours stating something to the effect of "I see you didn't read or understand my post" or "I expected this from someone like you" every single time someone has a differing opinion or raises a view point that dissents from your recently griefed ideas. I am going to be entirely honest and say that I skimmed 100% of the posts and only read 80% of this thread but I only really see you agree or condone with 2 or 3 posts and they were the ones most closely aligned with your feelings. I really don't have the drive or energy to crawl through this entire discussion to point out every single post where this is displayed but you at least understand what I am getting at. Regardless, I would agree that PvP focused games tend to draw out competitive and anti-social behavior in small segments of a games population but there is no measurable or consistent example to support your point.
I understand where you are coming from because getting griefed sucks. Like really sucks. Especially when it is someone specifically attempting continued abuse for minutes/hours/days. I am sorry you experienced that, but it is such a small amount of the population but you see so much talk about it because it is the "vocal minority" and it only takes 2-3 people on a given server to ruin an experience for a large section of people on any given day. But also it would seem that quite a few people both in this discussion and in the forums in general appreciate and like the dangerous and threatening world dynamic this creates, me being one of them.
The divergent point of discussion however, is that true griefing should be at least punished or "solved" by built in systems to protect from abuse, but this game seems to be aiming toward features which I would call resource warfare and common friction which could really look like griefing from a differing point of view. I have no doubt a large majority of people would kill and protect their nodes resources/infrastructure if you were "doing your thing solo" in my node farming resources that I want or don't want going to a different location. Now would 99% of players continue to chase you after you had left my node or my area of interest? probably not. However it only takes 1 experience to end up getting you frustrated to the point that you are (to be making a post on a different game forum regarding how poorly you feel about this kind of behavior).
The entire reason I even attempted to state "Maybe this game isn't for you" is because it isn't a negative thing. I played Dota competitively for years, and I realize that game "Isn't for everyone". I think (I obviously could be entirely wrong since we don't have A2) Ashes is aiming to be a game similar to AA, and specifically their tenants seem to lean toward the idea that there will be many reasons to attack people, and that a small group rolling up on a solo may have their reasons and not everyone will enjoy behavior or gameplay like that.
Thanks for the thought out reply.
The reason I'm replying with that line, is because I can't be bothered to reply the with same thing to every person that comes in and misrepresents my argument. But here we go, I'm going to do that here, again.
Like I mentioned many times before in this post, if it's competition for resources, for dungeons, world bosses, etc.. and Ashes is actually building the game with that stuff in mind, then I have no problem with PKing.
Let me say it again, I don't have a problem with PKing if it's due to competition for resources, competition for dungeons, farm spots, world bosses, caravans, or anything similar, where there's actual competition for some in-game reward.
What I have a problem with, is when players just PK for their own satisfaction of griefing others, watching them lose, and generally ruining their gameplay. Now they might as well be a small minority of PvP players, but like you mentioned, it only takes 1 experience to ruin someone's enjoyment of a game.
No, it's not one instance of PKing in Archeage that led me to post this, if that were the case I'd have made such post long ago, because it happened quite a few times already. It just made me think if this is necessary thing to have in OWPvP games, and if there's a way to prevent it from happening, because like I said, some people are just like that, they enjoy watching others suffer, and the only way to prevent them from doing so, is to put a certain ruleset, a system, or w/e in the game.
And we do have such system in Ashes.
So you see why I'm getting frustrated with people constantly misrepresenting my points? I have to constantly explain this over and over again, but some people do not want to have that argument, they just want to attack me because they think I want to change core game design of Ashes, even when it's clearly not the case.
This is why people are taking issue with this thread. Because you admit readily that such a system is in place, making this entire topic moot and irrelevant, so it serves zero purpose to paint a wide brush over a small minority that because of said systems will be even smaller. Yey you wanted to have a "discussion" where you still feel the need to judge. Just because you point to a group of people doesn't mean it's not a attack. One person or many, you are doing the same thing.
quite sad to see tbh
It is in place, because they realize there is an issue. However, we do not know how effective it's going to be.
It's only the same thing if you are one of those players I'm talking about, who likes meaningless PKing, only to watch others lose, only to grief others, etc. In that case that's a direct attack on you, so sure, it's the same thing as you directly attacking me. However, if you are not one of those players, than simply my thread is not aiming at you, therefore not attacking you in any way shape or form, so I have no idea why you have to attack me.
Anyways there were some other points about tendencies of some of those players, that I've noticed, but there's nothing that can or should be done about that anyways, it's just the nature of humans I guess.
Nah this is just a sad troll attempt at this point, because I've addressed all of the points you made in my previous few posts lmao.
They want to play the villain! Great! A Hero is measured by the foes and obstacles they have overcome.
Now now, don't rejoice too fast: if you flip the pages of the script toward the end of act 3, you'll see the villain is defeated. I'm sorry, that's how it goes. The role of the villain is to showcase the qualities and virtues of the hero.
Do not despair either! For "defeated" isn't the same as "killed". The villain may return in the sequel as reformed to the cause of good. If instead they were to insist on villainy, plans are for them to win this round. Sadly, they will be permanently killed in the last episode of the trilogy.
- PTW/Exploits
- Gear score is king
- Zero meaningful consequences for being "toxic"
- Arbitrary rule enforcement/bans
- Losing faction generally stays the losing faction
- AFK alts/leeching
I really didn't.
You: a lot of the players in archeage are psychopaths and sociopaths.
Source;
You: steven is creating a game that will attract these types of players(sociopaths and psychopaths)
Source:
You: these players that enjoy open world pvp and politics aren't regular/normal players, they're sociopaths/psychopaths
source:
You: steven played archeage, he very well may be one of these people(sociopaths/psychopaths)
Source:
You: if you disagree with me about what game modes to like, it's a personal attack and you may also be a sociopath.
Source:
Massively multiplayer online ROLE PLAYING Game. You've decided to take players living in a fantasy world and make it personal, labeling them with mental disorders because they have the audacity to kill you when you're on an opposing faction(the horror!).
You've then continued the same argument in this thread, where people are attacking your argument you made and you deem it personal as an affront to you...and therefore they are (possibly) the people in the subject matter, sociopaths/psychopaths.
I have not mislabeled anything. This is a classic ad hominem argument where you're making lofty assumptions about a player base, applying it to anyone that likes a game mode separately from you, and anyone that says otherwise is one of these players with these disorders.
It's a fun read though!
.
How dare you attack the OP by showing exactly what he said in perfect context. Don't you know you can factually ruin his paper thin reasoning and poorly disguised hurt ego by doing this?!?! How can you freely ruin his entire argument with perfect examples?!?! The sheer audacity... The unmitigated gaul sir!!
i might dunk on someone today when that person has no chance. but ill get dunked on the next day when i have no chance. im not gonna cry about it or ask for a system that protects me.
i just mark them for death (in game death, chill) ;3 then look for them and pvp them whenever i have a chance
I said they they exhibit such behavior, not that they are that, necessarily. But sure, have it your way.
I like how you quote me as saying something, then you post a picture of me not really saying that. Thanks for proving me right, I guess.
OWPvP will attract such players by nature, and they will attract more of those players if there are no limits to PKing, or rather no punishment for mindless PKing. Steven is aware of that, and has put the corruption system in the game to combat that.
I've just pointed out which kinds of activities they participate in, not that everyone who participates in those activities is a sociopath. Again, you are not quoting stuff correctly.
When I mentioned politics, the backstabbing, the toxicity, drama, etc. - it's always the same type of guilds that it happens in, none of the guilds I was a member of had anything remotely close to that (there always can be some small scale "drama", that's really just nothing compared to what happens in those large competitive guilds). Again, maybe calling them sociopaths/psychopaths is a bit much, but they're definitely people that are really toxic to be around or interact with. So if the word sociopath is too much for you, just replace every instance of it with the word toxic.
For all we know that might be true, but it also probably isn't true. I've just thrown that out as a possibility.
A lot of these large competitive guilds generally do have toxic environments, due to the nature of players that join those guilds, whether it's the big egos, the competition itself, or whatever else that's making people toxic, I have no idea. I'll backtrack here as well, and use the word toxic, instead of socio/psychopath.
Again with the misquoting, nice. It's really nice that you took the screenshots, so I can easily point out that that's not what I was saying at all, so thanks for that.
We aren't talking about different game modes, for the 10th time in this thread, I'm going to say I actually do like the open world PvP. I just hate the specific encounters and interactions that can happen in such environment, with some particular players, under some specific circumstances (when there's no punishment for such behavior).
Btw, the last part was a semi-joke, as a person named Depraved would like to say. I wasn't being serious at all with that accusation.
Because it has to be at least somewhat personal. You can't detach yourself completely from the game you are playing, and the character you are playing. You cannot treat other players as NPCs, because they are players, real human beings behind the screen, who are controlling those characters. Your actions against said characters also have an emotional impact on the player behind the screen controlling the character. (Please don't even try to deny or argue this, because you're just going to prove my point, we are all playing games because of emotional investment, and emotional reward they provide - whether it's just having fun, having sense of achievement, or whatever else, and with that often comes the frustration, and other negative emotions as well - and this is the part that people should get, when they just randomly decide to ruin someone's gameplay experience).
A few people have actually argued about the post itself in a good manner, without assuming stuff about me, saying I am this or that, or that I like or dislike something that I do not. Some even agreed with some of my points.
Again, the part where you say "applying it to anyone that likes a game mode separately from you, and anyone that says otherwise is one of these players with these disorders." - is totally not about any game mode itself, unless you consider meaningless, rewardless PKing a gamemode. Again, you just assumed what my point is, and you assumed wrongly.
Good try though.
Sidenote: I do find it funny how some people have made the accounts in the last 2-3 days, and started replying to this thread, it's so funny that you don't want to spew such bs trolling from your main acc.