Craftable Arrows in Ashes of Creation: Empowering Artisans and Players

Kalnazzar

Flanker wrote: »

Kalnazzar wrote: »

Wow, really stretching there with the 'warrior needs no consumables for his sword' argument. Let's break it down. So, according to your logic, if a warrior doesn't need consumables, why should an archer bother, right? Let's just kick out the archer from the team because, oh no, he might run out of arrows! Can't have that inconvenience, can we? And heaven forbid we invite a ranger; they might actually rely on store-bought arrows!

Damage buff oils? Elemental oils for a fiery touch? Now we're talking! And sharpening stones for those marathon fights? Brilliant!

But hold on a second. Here's the deal: I'm all for these additions. Unlike some, I don't mind putting in the effort. Farming? Bring it on. It's actually quite serene, you know, soaking in the in-game scenery. Unlike those elitists who think taking a breath will bring about doomsday.

So, thanks for the lecture, but I'll pass on the unnecessary anxiety. I'll be over here, enjoying my peaceful gameplay and taking my time, while the rushers burn themselves out. Cheers!

Bruh, I said it once and I have no problem with saying it again. If you have something constructive to say, then by all means, say it.
But don't copy-paste these ChatGPT garbage comments with little to no meaning

This time it was all me.. I typed it out and just had the spelling fixed. The very first MMORPG I played was Runescape I loved all the grinding, and exploring, everything. I disagree with cutting corners on the feeling of a real adventure just because people are lazy or always want to rush and won't give someone a little time to grab arrows, potions, or anything they may need for a fight. Even if I ran out of arrows I would have a backup weapon to keep fighting. Keep cutting out the engagements in the world in the next 20 or 30 years MMORPG will be replaced by auto grind games like how the mobile market is flooded with it now. It starts with small things like pay to win started. Small things like this have happened in every new generation of games [Let's make it easier and time-friendly] yet the MMORPG genre has never felt more dead.

Flanker

Kalnazzar wrote: »

It starts with small things like pay to win started. Small things like this have happened in every new generation of games [Let's make it easier and time-friendly] yet the MMORPG genre has never felt more dead.

Wish I could properly reply with fluency, flexibility and terms in my native language, but unfortunately, my English is not that great. This comparison (and argument in general) is wrong on levels beyond counting and has absolutely nothing to do with "mobile games" and "making things easier". Additionally, you appeal to false dichotomy by implying that there are only two possible options and we are forced to choose one of them, while attempting to rationalize it and also falling to something called "selective thinking" (accepting favorable evidence while ignoring unfavorable). I can go on and on with deconstructing your point, but there is a limited amount of time that I'm ready to dedicate to this reply.

Realism is not the only thing that must be taken into account and appealed to while making a suggestion. Balance is something that must be kept in mind as well. Ignoring this aspect while still stubbornly standing your ground for whatever real reason makes it look like virtue signaling.

You try to rationalize your idea by saying that it is good for economy and there will be more items that crafters can to craft. The suggestion itself doesn't make a lot of sense as it has been clearly stated by developers that bows will not require arrows. Additionally, they stated this: the developers are considering per-use consumables/buffs that can be applied to weapons. This provide an opportunity for crafters that you care about so much to craft consumables not only for rangers, but for all classes. That's even better for economy. So what's your problem?

Kalnazzar

Flanker wrote: »

Kalnazzar wrote: »

It starts with small things like pay to win started. Small things like this have happened in every new generation of games [Let's make it easier and time-friendly] yet the MMORPG genre has never felt more dead.

Wish I could properly reply with fluency, flexibility and terms in my native language, but unfortunately, my English is not that great. This comparison (and argument in general) is wrong on levels beyond counting and has absolutely nothing to do with "mobile games" and "making things easier". Additionally, you appeal to false dichotomy by implying that there are only two possible options and we are forced to choose one of them, while attempting to rationalize it and also falling to something called "selective thinking" (accepting favorable evidence while ignoring unfavorable). I can go on and on with deconstructing your point, but there is a limited amount of time that I'm ready to dedicate to this reply.

Realism is not the only thing that must be taken into account and appealed to while making a suggestion. Balance is something that must be kept in mind as well. Ignoring this aspect while still stubbornly standing your ground for whatever real reason makes it look like virtue signaling.

You try to rationalize your idea by saying that it is good for economy and there will be more items that crafters can to craft. The suggestion itself doesn't make a lot of sense as it has been clearly stated by developers that bows will not require arrows. Additionally, they stated this: the developers are considering per-use consumables/buffs that can be applied to weapons. This provide an opportunity for crafters that you care about so much to craft consumables not only for rangers, but for all classes. That's even better for economy. So what's your problem?

I said that earlier in my post... [/quote]

I've been contemplating a consumable item that bestows a temporary buff, providing hunters with a limited time to utilize arrows from a specific bundle type, such as Iron Arrows from the "Iron Arrow Bundle." It could serve as a pragmatic compromise, meeting my requirements by offering a realistic crafting option using authentic materials, while also being viable for sale.

Furthermore, we could introduce poison variations or unique magical types to add variety and depth to the selection.

Crafting these bundles would involve several steps. For instance, woodworkers could fashion the arrow shafts, selecting trees with optimal magic adaptability for specific elemental affinities. Enchanters could then enhance the arrows' magical properties by inscribing runes or other symbols, fortifying the wood and optimizing its magical performance.

This approach not only adds realism but also imbues quivers with practical functionality beyond mere decoration. we could utilize the quiver to store these stacking consumables. With a substantial duration and a moderate price point—not excessively high, but enough to facilitate sales—crafters would find joy in crafting and vending these items. [/quote]

the last post was me explaining why I feel leaving stuff like this out is bad for MMORPGs. As you said, I indeed am 'stubbornly standing my ground,' but it's because I feel it's an aspect of gaming that is being dropped because of laziness. And yes, that is my viewpoint; for you, it's 'Balance,' I guess. But how can you say there are not only two viewpoints on this topic? There are compromises, yes, but you either like the idea of crafting arrows or you don't. People who don't care don't fall in the middle; they just don't care which side wins.

Flanker

Kalnazzar wrote: »

But how can you say there are not only two viewpoints on this topic? There are compromises, yes, but you either like the idea of crafting arrows or you don't. People who don't care don't fall in the middle; they just don't care which side wins.

Because there are.... more than that, apparently? The quote above from the wiki confirms that, a mechanic similar to soulshots/spiritshots in Lineage 2 may be implemented by the devs. You may like it or not, that's another question, but it is much more fair as it applies to all classes, and it achieves the goal that you want to achieve on a larger scale.

Attempting to artificially limit the number of options to two and forcing people to choose from them, while ignoring all other possible options is a primitive form of manipulation that you might to refrain from, especially if you are willing to have a constructive discussion.

Kalnazzar

Flanker wrote: »

Kalnazzar wrote: »

But how can you say there are not only two viewpoints on this topic? There are compromises, yes, but you either like the idea of crafting arrows or you don't. People who don't care don't fall in the middle; they just don't care which side wins.

Because there are.... more than that, apparently? The quote above from the wiki confirms that, a mechanic similar to soulshots/spiritshots in Lineage 2 may be implemented by the devs. You may like it or not, that's another question, but it is much more fair as it applies to all classes, and it achieves the goal that you want to achieve on a larger scale.

Attempting to artificially limit the number of options to two and forcing people to choose from them, while ignoring all other possible options is a primitive form of manipulation that you might to refrain from, especially if you are willing to have a constructive discussion.

Since I never played the game I had to look this up. This could work yes.""In Lineage 2: Revolution, soulshots are consumable items that increase the power of an ability when attacking or casting a skill. The number of soulshots consumed per attack depends on the weapon's grade. Players can toggle the use of soulshots on or off by tapping its icon above the skill bar. Soulshots increase the damage and casting speed of normal attacks and physical damage abilities.""

Attempting to artificially limit the number of options to two and forcing people to choose from them, while ignoring all other possible options is a primitive form of manipulation that you might to refrain from, especially if you are willing to have a constructive discussion.

No, I'm just a realistic person. People either like something or they don't... It's like saying you kind of like something, but when it comes time to eat, you're going to choose something you actually like, not something you kind of like.

Flanker

Kalnazzar wrote: »

Since I never played the game I had to look this up. This could work yes.""In Lineage 2: Revolution, soulshots are consumable items that increase the power of an ability when attacking or casting a skill. The number of soulshots consumed per attack depends on the weapon's grade. Players can toggle the use of soulshots on or off by tapping its icon above the skill bar. Soulshots increase the damage and casting speed of normal attacks and physical damage abilities.""

Yup. You see, we are never limited by the options we have. We are only limited by the number of options we are able to to generate or think of

nanfoodle

Kalnazzar wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Kalnazzar wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

blat wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

But what does ammo add to the game for the Ranger? Without it they basically can't play the game, how is that fair or balanced?

I just don't think it's a binary thing; ammo or no ammo. Someone has already linked the quiver quote from Steven, but my points are:

1) It being a game we're only limited by imagination, of course they could come up with some middle-ground concept that gives ranger that bit of flavour without too much inconvenience.

2) The point about balance. That MMOs go quickly downhill when we all insist that every class gets an equivalent ability, or suffers an equivalent cost.
It needs some balance in a vague overall sense yes but not parity in every department.

Having one class hindered by ammo is just nuts, all so a crafter can feel warm and Fuzzy selling arrows. That crafter can get warm Fuzzies making something else.

It's also unfair Rangers need to be forced between having less cash flow because they have to buy crafted arrows, or be forced to pick fletching as their only option for crafting and have to trade time crafting to keep playing, while other classes just go play. This is unbalanced for so many reasons. Just no.

It's really absurd to entertain arguments like this. While we're discussing it, why not have weapons magically appear for all classes? Imagine if weapons simply materialized in the character's hand through sheer mental will, eliminating the need for players to engage in professions like blacksmithing to craft their gear. Additionally, they wouldn't have to go through the hassle of visiting auction houses to purchase equipment. And why stop there? Let's give everyone magic armor that automatically equips onto their character, sparing them the effort of gathering resources like ore, sticks, and feathers. Taking it even further, we could automate everything so players no longer need to bother with mundane actions like right-clicking the mouse button or pressing keys. Doesn't that sound enticing?

That's not a valid point. What consumable does a warrior need for his sword. Done. Why would an archer need one for his bow if a warrior does not? That's the only point. Ok let's kick the Archer out of the team. He is out of arrows. Let's not invite the ranger for this deep dungeon run. He will either run out of arrows, or we will need to wait an extra 20 min as he runs to town to get enough for this run. Let's not invite X ranger, he only uses store bought arrows and a rogue with blue daggers will do more damage. So again no ty.

Wow, really stretching there with the 'warrior needs no consumables for his sword' argument. Let's break it down. So, according to your logic, if a warrior doesn't need consumables, why should an archer bother, right? Let's just kick out the archer from the team because, oh no, he might run out of arrows! Can't have that inconvenience, can we? And heaven forbid we invite a ranger; they might actually rely on store-bought arrows!

Damage buff oils? Elemental oils for a fiery touch? Now we're talking! And sharpening stones for those marathon fights? Brilliant!

But hold on a second. Here's the deal: I'm all for these additions. Unlike some, I don't mind putting in the effort. Farming? Bring it on. It's actually quite serene, you know, soaking in the in-game scenery. Unlike those elitists who think taking a breath will bring about doomsday.

So, thanks for the lecture, but I'll pass on the unnecessary anxiety. I'll be over here, enjoying my peaceful gameplay and taking my time, while the rushers burn themselves out. Cheers!

Ok, where is any of this fun? I have seen mechanics like in games and it make the game work. Sure add something like this to every class to make it fair, just so you can sell Rangers arrows. Thats fun

Kalnazzar

nanfoodle wrote: »

Kalnazzar wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Kalnazzar wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

blat wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

But what does ammo add to the game for the Ranger? Without it they basically can't play the game, how is that fair or balanced?

I just don't think it's a binary thing; ammo or no ammo. Someone has already linked the quiver quote from Steven, but my points are:

1) It being a game we're only limited by imagination, of course they could come up with some middle-ground concept that gives ranger that bit of flavour without too much inconvenience.

2) The point about balance. That MMOs go quickly downhill when we all insist that every class gets an equivalent ability, or suffers an equivalent cost.
It needs some balance in a vague overall sense yes but not parity in every department.

Having one class hindered by ammo is just nuts, all so a crafter can feel warm and Fuzzy selling arrows. That crafter can get warm Fuzzies making something else.

It's also unfair Rangers need to be forced between having less cash flow because they have to buy crafted arrows, or be forced to pick fletching as their only option for crafting and have to trade time crafting to keep playing, while other classes just go play. This is unbalanced for so many reasons. Just no.

It's really absurd to entertain arguments like this. While we're discussing it, why not have weapons magically appear for all classes? Imagine if weapons simply materialized in the character's hand through sheer mental will, eliminating the need for players to engage in professions like blacksmithing to craft their gear. Additionally, they wouldn't have to go through the hassle of visiting auction houses to purchase equipment. And why stop there? Let's give everyone magic armor that automatically equips onto their character, sparing them the effort of gathering resources like ore, sticks, and feathers. Taking it even further, we could automate everything so players no longer need to bother with mundane actions like right-clicking the mouse button or pressing keys. Doesn't that sound enticing?

That's not a valid point. What consumable does a warrior need for his sword. Done. Why would an archer need one for his bow if a warrior does not? That's the only point. Ok let's kick the Archer out of the team. He is out of arrows. Let's not invite the ranger for this deep dungeon run. He will either run out of arrows, or we will need to wait an extra 20 min as he runs to town to get enough for this run. Let's not invite X ranger, he only uses store bought arrows and a rogue with blue daggers will do more damage. So again no ty.

Wow, really stretching there with the 'warrior needs no consumables for his sword' argument. Let's break it down. So, according to your logic, if a warrior doesn't need consumables, why should an archer bother, right? Let's just kick out the archer from the team because, oh no, he might run out of arrows! Can't have that inconvenience, can we? And heaven forbid we invite a ranger; they might actually rely on store-bought arrows!

Damage buff oils? Elemental oils for a fiery touch? Now we're talking! And sharpening stones for those marathon fights? Brilliant!

But hold on a second. Here's the deal: I'm all for these additions. Unlike some, I don't mind putting in the effort. Farming? Bring it on. It's actually quite serene, you know, soaking in the in-game scenery. Unlike those elitists who think taking a breath will bring about doomsday.

So, thanks for the lecture, but I'll pass on the unnecessary anxiety. I'll be over here, enjoying my peaceful gameplay and taking my time, while the rushers burn themselves out. Cheers!

Ok, where is any of this fun? I have seen mechanics like in games and it make the game work. Sure add something like this to every class to make it fair, just so you can sell Rangers arrows. Thats fun

What Flanker and I talked about the past few posts pretty much ended this topic for me, I can work with the compromise.

Flanker wrote: »

Kalnazzar wrote: »

Since I never played the game I had to look this up. This could work yes.""In Lineage 2: Revolution, soulshots are consumable items that increase the power of an ability when attacking or casting a skill. The number of soulshots consumed per attack depends on the weapon's grade. Players can toggle the use of soulshots on or off by tapping its icon above the skill bar. Soulshots increase the damage and casting speed of normal attacks and physical damage abilities.""

Yup. You see, we are never limited by the options we have. We are only limited by the number of options we are able to to generate or think of

Diamaht

Mag7spy wrote: »

People be like lets try to make this work just cause even though the devs could spend the time making actual good and interesting systems and not forcing down consumable ammo for no reason.

Quiver durability is all we need.

Agreed, and durability is a system all classes struggle with equally.