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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
@KaelinTV I believe this is intended, if you look at how BDO does it, its very similar, they skip frames to make an effect of impact,
and IMO this works, I think its a cool stylized way to make hits feel more impactful, with some polish should end up nicely,
The Fighter Talent Tree
Basic feedback is where do you start from? I understand that this talent tree is a functional tree for you the developers but it is confusing as all hell to us gamers. What is the point of the arrows? Are you forcing us to go in a certain direction by choosing an ability? Please give us a obvious starting point in the tree and actually give us better routes to abilities and have passives that can buff the fighter. I would really like Brian to talk about the philosophy on these talent trees? What is the current thinking on what goes in the tree, for example, do we only want actual abilities with augments to those abilities only? We need a better foundation for this system and whatever you come up with, by giving us your new philosophy, we can better leave feedback. I would personally start over with the tree and see what you guys come up with.
So... What does the Fighter Class Lack?
A hard stun maybe 3 seconds long at a base level for the Fighter class. A melee interrupt for spell casting is needed for sure. Would like to see more single target options for abilities as there were many AoE options for skills. I feel like certain classes should lack certain qualities in abilities in order to bring those other classes. I don't know what the team wants the Fighter class to lack in that sense so I left feedback according to what I thought was missing.
Overall, I was greatly pleased with the updated melee combat and what the Fighter class offers in terms of abilities, sounds, VFX and animations. 7/10 overall and that is impressive for an pre-alpha state of an MMORPG! Keep going Intrepid!
The Blitz going up vertically looked unrealistic and unnatural.
Why should a Ranger bother finding an elevated position at distance if another melee class target can just magically levitate and scale walls to be instantly right in their face?
Not every class needs to have the ability to do things that is the province of other classes. Unless you want a pile of slightly different flavored all rounders.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
What I can and would like to comment on however, like many others here, I share the same sentiment that the freeze frame effects are overtuned. Freeze frames are often used to indicate melee resistance in video games. Personally, I prefer for it to be slowed down animation instead of frame freezing. Frame freezing is fine but currently, your implementation is too heavy on the eyes. Feels like it's about 1 to 1.5s of freeze. Ideally, it should be a lot shorter. 250-500ms at most.
Secondly, I know animations are still being worked on so I hope that the player feet will be more grounded when launching an attack. As of now, it looks like the player's feet are floating as the model moves around while an attack is being executed. I'm not asking for you to fixed the player in place while attacking, instead the animations hopefully when it's completed, it includes all the motions to display a realistic human locomotion.
- The respective magic form should be transferable to the weapons
- The respective magic form should have to be renewed after a certain period of time bcs it makes the game more interesting
- The weapons should have additional passive and active abilities corresponding to the respective magic form:
passive ecamples: slow(frost), set on fire(fire), swirl(wind)etc.
active examples: Frost, fire, wind, ligtning, water bolt after 5 attacks, or an area attack with frost, water, fire, wind or similar as with the Maim ability, furthermore it would be possible to combine attacks like brutal cleave with the respective magic form, so that you can still reach the target in front of you even if it is further away than in melee range, also a whirlwind of fire, frost or wind itself would be possible ( make it bigger than the normal one.)
But I would recommend being more creative than just morphing the warrior attacks. Add additional useful abilities that make the game experience more interesting, such as freezing river sections or ponds (you can cross the river section faster than the others, or make enemies slip and fall over) setting terrain on fire (good for controlling battles or cutting off paths, etc.) or creating windy sections in the environment that reduce your running speed, etc. Always remember to make the game experience interesting and varied.
2. Fighter Ability Discussion - What do you like, and what concerns do you have about the look and feel of the abilities shared for the Fighter Archetype? (THIS INCLUDES CLASS SKILL TREE)
Excited:
Ability Concerns:
Skill Tree Concerns:
3. Weapon Progression Tree - How do you feel about the current direction of the weapon progression tree, based on the Greatsword progression tree shared during the Fighter Preview? These are separate progression trees that you unlock and advance in while you are adventuring with a specific weapon type.
Excited:
Concerns:
Yes, so true
I would like to see more continuity in the ability VFX. All red "bloody" slashes, etc. Could be interesting to have them all change based on the current active "stance" too.
The whirlwind ability could use some hitlag to bring it inline with the feeling of the other abilities.
The abilities shown were all really nice, but I hope to see more in the future that aren't purely focused on damage. The kit could use just a bit more utility. At least as an optional spec. Maybe as a subclass so you could opt in to different niches.
The basic attacks really fell flat for me. They felt slow and unimpactful. I would like to see them also get some trailing VFX or something. They looked very small especially when shown next to the abilities.
Love where you're headed with the weapon trees, but I do not like the idea of chance-based procs. Ideally I'd like to see more, impactful branching paths and fewer stat increases.
The ability that causes earthen spikes to protrude from the ground is a bit too much. I'd prefer something with less visual clutter. Maybe earthquake fault lines that spread out from the point of impact.
I like that the fighter carries a bit of the berserker archetype in it since you don't have a class dedicated to that archetype. I would be ecstatic if their were even more ways to lean into that eventually.
I really appreciate the mobility you gave the fighter. Too often melee classes are relegated to dying before they even get to the enemy. I'm very glad to see that addressed so early.
If you'd like a reference point for a well designed fighter, please consider Black Desert's greatsword awakening. It perfectly encapsulates the fighter fantasy.
Visually, the Fighter showcased looked great. I really liked the equipment, and the character was perfectly bulked for the power fantasy. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me make a human race character that size. And with that same mohawk. I can forgive everything else, but do not slight me on this.
I felt the mob density was good enough. Respawn rates were fine as well. I would really like to know what leash ranges will look like. I'd like to be able to pull huge groups to really test group abilities.
The environment is phenomenal. All of it. Nailed it.
The goblins sound great, but a little loud. If I'm going to be grinding for hours, I'd prefer they were a touch quieter.
The mage spell VFX are still a bit too much sometimes. The blizzard and ice carpet in particular are very bright and cover a large area. Giving them some opacity could a fun way to curb that and stay on theme with the ice element.
Cleric's chain heal spell just doesn't look good to me. The way it jumps from target to target in a straight line really feels odd and immersion breaking. It looks like an old videogame effect.
Criticisms aside, this game is really starting to look amazing. I can't wait for the full release. You guys are gonna nail it.
For up: I'm an action combat fan and my main games are BDO and New World.
I like most of the skills, but I'm currently not happy with the basic attacks. I would prefer it hands and legs aren't separated but combined and the movement is incorporated in the attacks (like New World) as footwork is an important part of martial arts like swordsmanship . This gives the attacks more weight and you know when you are attacking and when not. It also would help with fixing another problem I have with the current AOC combat . This problem is that half the combat people are standing still [ I don't mind the heavy hitter skills (think it was cataclysm | "yellow rocky skill " )with their charge up, there it is correct to stand still and charge up] just doing there thing instead of even small side or front moves (This problem is seen in tap target in general).
Things to be considered with movement on (basics) attack: range of movement and homing. I'd recommend getting a bit into the Great Axe in New World during release times. It had a strong homing effect during release times and led to people being unable to run from them but after a few nerfs the homing and movements was so low that people doing the basic attacks had way too few homing to somewhat do consecutive attacks leading to a attack --> dodge --> attack combo.
Combat in general: As I said earlier I think that the combat currently has a bit too much still standing and dmg trading then I would like see. I'm not really sure what changes would be nice to see apart from the basic attacks tho.
I normally do not play melee / fighter class, however this one looked really good. I really enjoyed the animations of the skills, the mobility the class had, and the atk/movement speed generation.
I also loved the normal attack combo weaving along with the momentum build up.
When balancing comes in Beta 1, I think this class kit will really shine.
Great job Intrepid!
I just wish effect/animation artists would stop making every skill look like anime laser show. It's definitely ok for magic to look bright and flashy but I want my physical classes to be brutal, bloody and not flashy. I don't want to see some ugly yellow p**s flying across the screen when swinging sword around unless I am playing a class that does holy dmg with it's attacks and there is reason for the effect.
I want to see clean sword swing and bloody effects when hitting the enemy. Or small sparks etc. when hitting plate armor etc.
Even the "Roar" is throwing p**s around. Why not make it warp the screen and give small blur effect for a sec for your character. Could even be used in PvP situations by making the screen shake, warp and blur for a moment when warrior uses the skill near you. Minimalistic is the better way to go ahead when trying to make skills feel impactful. More there is bright lights flashing the screen for no reason, less impactful the gameplay is. Good example is how Dragons Dogma 2 does the skills: Physical skills are toned down, fast, brutal and have powerful feeling behind them while magical skills like sorcerers skills are flashy in realistic way, they have meaning behind them and makes sense. And bad example is basically everything what games like FFXIV have.
Minimal, toned down and realistic is what makes the combat feel purposeful and interesting. Flashy colors that make zero sense make the combat cheap and boring. Those also make it annoying to play after sun goes down and complicates what user sees on the screen which leads to things like combat being too hard which means that everything gets nerfed or if possible addons will make the game easier (looking at you Weakauras and DBM).
It is easy to overcomplicate things when making effects/UI and so on. I do that as well but I always look at what I made afterwards and try to remove as much as possible from it and then add more again.
Way too many games unfortunately just take the easy route and add pointless laser shows to compensate the quality of the animations and graphics. Ofc that is just my own opinion but there is reason why games like WoW is still alive and why it is still see as best MMO when it comes to combat.
• Attack speed and movement speed is kinda boring as stance buffs from momentum
• Exert is giga boring how it just adds all stance buffs but I like the idea of a reset/berserk/escape button.
• Whirlwind adding a front attack in the end is weird and doesn't fit the ability. Makes it a super long ability.
Would have wished seeing a spec option like an aoe suction, aoe slow or adding a DOT to everyone hit or
something more fun and usable.
• Would absolutely liked seeing the health bars on all the mobs not just the one targeted.
Things that was cool
• Sound effects on the abilities is starting to get pretty good.
• I like how you can change how an ability works and looks in the spec option.
• Stances is always usable and a good addition. Like a mini respec of the class on the go.
• Weapon specialization is cool and hopefully different weapons feel unique to one another and not just one weapon is best for everything.
So hard to give feedback without playing but here is a list of things I have liked from a melee dps class in other games:
• Big bonker finisher
• Self buffs
• Channeled melee single target dps ability
• Knockdown/stun
• Some nice aoe, aoe dots and aoe debuffs
• Single target debuffs to make your group deal more damage to them
• Good mobility if the class is on the weaker side
• Some group utility
• Self sustain
I have not played many different mmos but in Warhammer online that I have a ton of hours into I main a White lion which is a melee class with a pet. Best experience of a melee class in a mmo I have had.
Pounce in, debuff, knockdown, combo with your pet and boom, dead. So much fun!
God mode Exert is a good start. I would like more high cooldown high cost abilities like it - both in the form of short duration buffs, and slow, high-cost abilities to cast on opponents and allies.
Mind you, none of this should have to to compromise the long time-to-kill Ashes has promised. You just balance it with resource cost, and around the fact that some short-duration high-impact buffs can be countered with CC or mobility.
In the same vein, I disapprove of Cataclysm letting you drastically change the direction during the windup. It should have weight, so you should definitely not be able to turn more than a few degrees after entering the windup. And even that adjustment I would limit the turn speed for.
Sidenote: Speaking of highly impactful but high-cost, and still balanced, skills, has made me think about a skill that could be really cool for the tank.
How about you let the tank boost his damage by like 5x for 3-5 seconds, but with the major caveat that any player in the melee range (or perhaps only a player that the boosted tank is actively attacking) can double-click the tank in order to use his own character to lock the tank in place. To allow the tank to force one player to deal with the tank for the duration of the buff, while still granting agency to everyone involved, and requiring a certain level of skill in decision-making from the other players.
Wouldn't really work for a fighter because the fighter would escalate too much with it, but feels like a really fun idea for a tank.
Now to how this pertains to Ashes of Creation: The Fighter showcase made combat seem a bit lacking, (Static? Flat? Non-engaging) I would highly recommend (although I recognize this is wishful thinking) and request that you add a dodge mechanic, one that is responsive and not delayed by being stuck in other animations. Possibly too late to add one, but if possible it would add a little bit more engagement to the core combat loop.
I mentioned B&S earlier, what they did right was high-speed, reaction-time needing, skill-based combat. Contantly using I-frames and dodges to avoid damage. When your character was stunned, if you spam clicked "F" (default button) you could break out of the stun sooner, the faster you reacted the faster you got out. You also had (in some cases) 0.5 seconds to push "F" to counter enemy attacks. This resulted in a gameplay experience where it was "fun to push to buttons" (and rewarding if done skillfully) during combat. I realize your game is different, and will never be like this. But I figured I would share it in case it may be to your benefit. Unlikely I presume, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
TL;DR combat seemed a bit sluggish, could speed it up slightly, and if possibly add a dodge mechanic. Engaging, interactive combat scenarios make for fun combat, as the primary game-play loop, it's paramount for it to be feel good and fun. Good luck, I look forward to playing your finished game, however it might pan out in the end.
Let's imagine that you are playing Tank and Blitz is untargeted. How are you planning to protect your Mage and Cleric when Fighter jumps around them?
Great job with the fighter! Congrats to everyone in the team!
I really liked the animations and how the interact with each other as well the overall fantasy of the fighter.
I wouldn't call it a concern, more like an intrusive thought as i was watching, will the fighter need to have mana stats on gear? I believe all the get mana back mechanics would suffice but this will need testing. Also from what i got in the preview bards have a way to give mana to party.
With all the mobility and resets it will be nice to see how other classes can counter that or if they have similar mechanics
I can't wait to see how it feels to plays because the attack speed stacking that also makes animations faster looks great in general but at least in my mind fighter is more heavy hitting than fast hitting. It would be fun to swing something huuuuge around
I think the 2h sword looks a bit small and thin on the bulky Ren'kai but maybe thats just me and mace or axe would look bulkier.
Is the name "form" final? Unless its lore related it seems simple.
Again great job overall and tell Steven to get some sleep
The bleed visual effect of Rupture is way too much. Rather than sending excessive blood everywhere, focus it into a single arc, ideally shooting out in the direction the Rupture attack came from. That way you get the high visibility of copious amount of blood, but it's not overwhelming. Also, it would be cool if the color of the blood changed for certain types of enemies.
I like the re-work to the visuals for Cataclysm, but I have a hard time determining where the edge of the AOE is.
In the Fighter Archetype youtube video, at 36:19 there is a strange distortion that covers the whole screen when Steven used Leap Strike. I didn't see it the other times he used that skill. Whatever it is, I don't like it.
it only makes sense to follow more of a mature theme even across vfx, Verra is not Disneyland and I love that.
Great that the gap closer can span heights making this a quasi movement ability. Would be nice if you could spec it into a stun break too, as a form of escape. That would add a defensive element to the ability. I think abilities should all be designed to be used in multiple ways.
The animations looked great, a little choppy but great.
The kit reminds me of Knights in SWTOR and Warriors in GW2. The gap closer in particular reminded me of Force Leap which is probably the most enjoyable gap closer I've ever seen.
The freedom of movement reminded me of GW2s Warriors. However GW2 combat in general felt too "floaty", you seemed to have fixed that issue. The class moved like it had real wieght, we'll have to test the feel of it more in A2 to be sure.
What I would like to see is a description of the CA.
I played 3 classes as mains
And uses 30+ CA but say my brighten class I would start with my fifth CA. And that discussion might say -300 to enemy mitigation
Hit target for x refresh is 30 seconds if it lands depending on spells quality and there like 8-9 grads
2nd Ca might lower dodge, stun,slow
Interrupt.
3rd might lower poison damage basically at debunks as that was the briggins job and once the Mob was debuffed I would start my damage CA watching the threat priority meter so I didn't hit 100 witch would spin the raid boss to me either because of hate or damage as I'm then number 1 on the parser. All the time sneaking in de argo CA arts added to emotes saying in raid chat my attempts to spin the mob back to the tank where he belongs and not cause him to use a rescue. And I could get 1-3 hit shotted . Or a healer could then target me and heal me witch is a big no no then the healer gets agro and well. The raid wipes..
Lesson is know your class know every class lol
I’d much rather see a dwarf yield a hammer than a sword.
The fighter and the healer get the Fame!
You have to have military execution in groups or raids You had to know mob pathing do a tank spin in dungeon and raid.
Also will you be adding tag markers so as a group member that target the main tank or MA that person could see threw there eyes and see there target on top of labeling mobs with icons?