Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
and bring back his identity, since he seems more like a swordsman than a fighter.
Here you have a perfect demonstration of a berserker fighter, which is almost similar to the one they showed in the video they showed of the fighter a while ago but a little more elaborate.
Make the fighter with an action combat system, since the target tab is obsolete. Replace mana in fighters and opt for fury or energy. Mana is perfect in wizards, druids, and necromancers because they are wizard archetypes.
Those are my concerns, but in general the game looks incredible in terms of graphics and improving how the character moves. I trust that the developers will do a great job in developing the classes.
Only seeing one handed fighter strike 20 time's I get the idea..
So the tank losses argo and a caster grabs it and runs around while the tank chases after the mob .lol humm No. that seems like a bad mechanic or impression.
There should be a hate dump caster might get or healer for sure. For when the mob say leave for well who ever is doing most damage or the healer cat keep the tank up and they get argo...
But there should be a mechanic to restore order
That's a huge non-issue for many reasons.
Edit: I would like to take this opportunity to ask again what I asked in my previous comment and would also like to ask that y'all at intrepid that keep such in mind when making abilities for all archetypes in general if you agree with it.
Y'all have already done such a great job of creating an immersive world, while also actually considering our opinions! I personally know you are listening to us directly because I saw the movement away from basic CC's after the immense anti-stun thread I made a few years ago. I have comple faith in your abilities to make this game amazing.
For what it's worth, I would reverse the order for individual ability reveals during the live stream.
Currently, you will spend a good amount of time explaining an ability and then you'll show it. I would reverse that.
People want to actually see the ability first and foremost. So I'm pretty sure a lot of the info you're hoping to convey is lost behind a pile of "OMG, just hit the button!"
I think if you just show it first a couple times, that gets out of the way. Then a larger part of the audience will be more open and attentive to a longer explanation.
This is just an idea but im pretty sure you get the gist, I want to make it feel like a fantasy of a real warrior
imo a combat system like Black Desert online would be absolutely SOLID for this game!
fast pace, fluid, smooth transitions and chain combos, visual effects on point etc. but it's looking fantastic so far can't wait to see the rest
Everyone has different ideas on how that should look, but I think Fighters should either have access to unique weapon skill ending talents (eg. end of longsword tree might be 'way of the sword', reducing the cooldown and increasing the effectiveness of active parrys) or, if weapon skill and class skill points end up separate, fighter should have access to more weapon skill points than other classes
We also discussed the role of ranged attacks with Fighters: I think most people agree keeping it short range is probably for the best, but some synergy with the shortbow and the base fighters abilities could be really cool to see: close range Legolas was brought up as an example of that sort of style.
first off, we need to lose the "fighter is jack of all trades, master of none" philosphy. thats a good way to make a class that is either totally useless, or the only class worth playing. let archers specialize in bows, wizards with staffs.. etc, etc. if you want to see how that plays out look at lineage 2. any character can use any weapon, but that doesnt mean they should use any weapon.
second, the only valid point i heard from the pve crowd was that fighter should have less magic, more something else. that doesnt disclude the ability bar, but i think the effects should be less gold-ey and more blood and dirt colored. obviously they need a mana-like bar, but rename it and most people will be happy.
subnote on my second point, the skill that lets you regain mana and health from attacking shouldnt be on the fighter. that skill is clearly inspired by vamp rage from lineage 2, where fighters can only get it from the buffer/healer classes warcryer and se. thats good, give that skill as a buff to the bard, so there can be synergy between bards and fighters.
and lastly, and most importantly, fighters fill the melee aoe niche. archers and mages are ranged damage, and daggers are high single target melee dps. the only damage niche left is aoe melee damage. thats the fighter. for that spec to work in pve, you dont need much. a single target spec'ed warrior would be great for leveling or doing pve content, imo. but for pvp, that single target spec should, and is going to, run into problems. the main problem is they wont have the health of a tank, so theyll die fast. and they wont have the damage of a traditional glass cannon build like the mage or archer. you make the fighter class relavent by giving it a simple to use class kit, enough mobility to get through the line of engagement quickly, and the aoe debuffs/cc's to make that breakthrough potentially meaningful, but you dont give them the damage to just invalidate the other dps classes.
if anyone is curious how this plays, see the warlord from lineage 2 gracia-high five chronicles. they are terrible in pvp, unless they can find a way to get into the backline. from there they are a menace. and their skills reflect that. they have something like 5 relavent skills to use, only 1 skill is ranged and only 1 skill isnt an aoe, and they get a gap closer in high 5. thats perfect. they have a simple gameplay style because the player needs to be using all their mental energy on reading the battlefield and picking a position and timing that allows them to get in and do their thing.
The topic was specifically referring to the form of fluidity shown in the fighter showcase. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe in simple terms it gives 40% chance to resist CC at full momentum. Picture shown below:
I'm aware single abilities can be adjusted easily if they are unbalanced, so this is more about discussing the general design philosophy behind combining RNG with extremely important effects like CC immunity and why I think that is bad for the gameplay experience, for both the person playing and who they are fighting. So I'd like to use this particular ability as a way to explain that and also suggest better ways of achieving the same design intention but with a better overall gameplay experience, which could also be applied to many other areas of class design for different kinds of effects.
First I'll start by clarifying the goal that is trying to be achieved from this ability/form, so that the suggestions I offer later can lead to that same goal:
I believe it is pretty clear that the design intention for this form was to have a more "tanky" or resistible and less controllable stance to allow the fighter to shrug off some crowd controls and not be shut down as much. This would be useful for the fighter for situations like chasing someone who is being peeled for, or when surrounded by multiple enemies and need to not be chain CC'd in order to fight back or escape.
I love the intention behind this form and think it would be very useful for the fighter to have at their disposal, however I do not like the method in which that goal is achieved or the resulting gameplay experience that would create, which I will outline below.
So WHY is this bad?
Having something as important as CC immunity/breaks be entirely RNG dependent usually results in a very bad and unsatisfying gameplay experience as being CC'd or not, or successfully CC'ing your opponent or not can be one the most major factors in deciding who wins a fight. This is bad for both sides.
For example, the person who is playing the fighter switches to the form of fluidity thinking they're not going to be locked down as much, but then the fight proceeds as so:
--- Their 40% CC immunity works in their favor on a 0.5 second stun and they immune it, but then they get unlucky and it doesn't work on the following barrage of stuns and other CCs, causing them to be rendered useless and killed and they sit there wondering why they even bothered trying to use that form when it didn't seem to do anything useful for them.
Or on the other side of the RNG coin, the fight instead proceeds as so:
--- Their 40% CC immunity doesn't work on the 0.5 second stun, but then they get lucky and it works on the majority of the incoming barrage of stuns and other CCs, causing them to resist being locked down and kill their opponent. Then the fighter sits there thinking wow this form is insane they couldn't shut me down, and then the next fight the opposite happens and they get mad again. Meanwhile the other players they just killed are sitting there mad that none of their CCs seemed to do anything.
Now not every fight would be so polarizing of course, but just by the nature of RNG some most definitely would and while I do not have an issue with RNG being included with some aspects of combat, I do not think it should be the sole factor of extremely important fight deciding effects like CC immunity. The point is, when a player gets to the end of the fight and looks back trying to ask themselves what they did wrong or could improve on and the answer is that they just got unlucky and winning or losing the fight wasn't even in their hands, it's problematic for enjoyment and doesn't result in very satisfying fights that lean more into skill or improvement.
So how do you fix this while still achieving the same goals; a form that can shrug off some CC and not be locked down as easily?
I have a few suggestions that could be altered or developed further, the first one's design focuses around a more consistent effect to give reliability and would read like this:
---"While in this form, the caster receives +5% reduced CC duration per 10 combat momentum, up to a maximum of 50%"
This kind of effect at maximum momentum would cause a 4 second stun to only last for 2 seconds. Now while this isn't exactly CC immunity like the original design had, it still achieves a similar goal of being locked down for less time and feeling more CC resistant as a whole, just in a way that is far more reliable and consistent and would not result in fights where the fighter gets lucky or unlucky on the timing or effectiveness of RNG and wins or loses based on that.
If specifically CC immunity was a definite desire in this form rather than the above suggestion of CC duration reduction, then there are also other methods to achieve this which don't rely on RNG.
This suggestion is more focused on predictability as a means to make the ability more reliable and would read something like this:
--- "If you are CC'd 2 times within x seconds, you resist the next CC that hits you within x seconds.
This way the player can actually predict and play around their CC immunity. If they have been hit by 2 CC's they know the next one they will be resisted and can consciously use that to their advantage in many ways like to use a channelled ability with less risk of it being interrupted, or to play around their targets CC options and give their opponent a false sense of security in order to bait out an important or long cooldown CC.
This also gives room for other players to play around it which raises the skill ceiling further, if they are paying attention and know that their next CC will be resisted they can use that to make the choice to flee, or use a lower cooldown CC to remove that immunity. All of these kinds of combat dynamics make for a much more engaging and satisfying experience and can really add to the skill expression of the game rather than something that could have so much depth being watered down to a coinflip RNG based system.
Does it achieve the same goal?
Something like this absolutely achieves the same design intention. If using the above suggestion, then given it happens within the time constraints of the ability, 1 in every 3 CCs will be resisted which is 33% on average. This is very close to the 40% on average that would occur from the original design, however using this method would remove those edge cases where the fighter immunes 6 CC's in a row and there's nothing else their opponent can do, or where they resist none of the CC's thrown at them and they get mad at the game and their class and never use that form again. Both suggestions could even be combined into one form, which would make CC's that do hit you be less effective while also providing some CC immunity in a reliable manner. Not only would this kind of design shift reduce player frustration on both ends, but it would allow the fighter to play around their immunity and use it to their advantage as I explained above.
If this kind of thinking is extrapolated to other abilities and effects for other archetypes or systems in the game regarding RNG then I truly think it will result in a much more enjoyable, rewarding and satisfying gaming experience for players on both ends. And again I am not opposed to RNG entirely as it can make things more interesting, however I think it belongs on less important effects not on things as crucial to a fights outcome like CC immunity.
I like the direction for the melee fighter class.
Aspects that I enjoyed:
-Dashes and elevation change dashes are great.
-Abilities had good weight and impact especially for an Alpha phase demo.
-Melee auto attacks no longer having the distracting Yellow/white whoosh arc pathing trail effect is a big win. The game looks cleaner and more appealing with those swing effects removed.
-The augment or ability upgrade that increased the path linear slam ability was nice. I like the theme of that ability upgrade direction.
-Abilities all look nice. As your testing and development phases progress one thing I'd suggest is to start to think about designing class/role combat abilities with some form of design flow intent in mind. It may not need to be fully fleshed out but for all classes I don't know if I've seen the abilities yet tie into one another well. The abilities seem a bit disjointed and that's something I'd look to tie in together to make more fluid. This will help with developing the Action oriented combat feel of the game for those that want to lean into it. Even the mage demo felt disjointed in thinking about it.
Aspects that need work as I see it:
-Melee auto attacks look janky with too many frames missing from the swings. Kind of like a retro side-scroller melee attack look and feel.
-I'd like to see more CC potential through augmentation potentially. The one leg slash slow ability is not enough.
-Mana for melee fighter felt off to me. I'm not interested in managing mana as a melee fighter class. I get that changing the color and giving it a different name (rage, stamina, whatever) has the same overall impact on game play but I do think it's important to differentiate melee physical classes from Magic caster classes in playstyle and feel for no other reason that it gives the game more replay value when we try out new classes with a fresh character going through the games content. By using the same mana management mechanics the game's combat may feel stale more quickly than otherwise if the mechanics governing the classes were unique.
Nice job on the melee class. I'm looking forward to what your team does with Summoner. Please don't make us do dance maneuver's to benefit from a Bard.
I think a cool way to introduce fighter would be to use the Weapon Skill Tree as their talent tree. If a Fighter were to be a swordsman, a barbarian, a warrior, etc. they would select their weapon and get certain weapon skills for the type of weapon they are using. Then the "Fighter" class abilities are more what "Essence" means to a fighter. Like stance dancing, exerting, blitz, cataclysm, heroic leap, lethal blow, etc. When they are channeling their essence to boost themselves.
People are also upset with "Lifesteal", but I understand it as an "Adrenaline" where the mechanic allows the fighter to sustain in a fight longer. Maybe instead of lifesteal you can call it bloodlust or adrenaline and satisfy those people's worries where it is still essentially lifesteal.
As I also stated in the Office Hours, I think other archetypes should be able to counterplay fighter a little bit and that's not currently possible with what we've been shown. I think Rock/Paper/Scissors is a good system, but counterplay doesn't mean you need to win every engagement, but they should have the ability to at least get away from the engagement. Once again, I don't think the fighter needs to get nerfed, but I think other archetypes should get updated to be able to have these handshakes.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Current Member of the Gray Sentinels.
When aggro or in combat the mini-map lights up red around the edges.
Own view of the mini-map is that it does not and should not have any relationship to combat execution.
Only for broader information.
In BG3 the mini map glows red to indicate fast travel is restricted. I imagine the same applies in Ashes.
I'd like to bump this because I haven't seen a response from intrepid about it (particularly my comment that was quoted here)
If there was and I missed it then my bad
- The fact that you have to jump right before using Blitz if you want to reach an enemy that's higher than you.
Things I really really didn't like:
- "Hit frames" as apparently they're called: they make the animation extremely choppy and unpleasant. Worst offendor is when casting Whirlwind, but I hate them all the time. Maybe toning it down is enough but I would remove it completely.
- The first part of the Leap Strike (whenever you are in the air): it looks like you are a rocket which I think makes it look very childish. The effects when crashing to the ground on the other hand I really like.
Pretty pleased with the general direction of the archtype tho. Good job.
Often times large scale PvP leads to clumping/zerg play/range standoffs etc. This is not good for anyone. I believe part of the solution is allowing damage to scale for some fighter abilities based on the number of targets hit. If the fighter was provided skills to break up clumps/zergs/choke points, it changes the entire battlefield. This allows the fighter to have greater reward for the higher risk of jumping into the fray of enemies with the added bonus of spreading players out and increasing the need for positional awareness. In addition, spreading out the ranged DPS and healers opens the floor for engaging rogue game play as they sneak through enemy lines to pick off these now more spread out players.
As a result, the enemy players have to be more mindful of positioning, similar to what we see in many successful end game PvE mechanics.. It gives the fighter a fun and engaging role on the battle field. It helps the servers with stress loads as it makes zerging/stacking 50+ people into a single tiny area a much less viable strategy. This also allows for play and counter play to the mechanic with the ole' adage of "don't stand in fire" and of course "50 dkp minus, " while the fighter gets to engages in some "LEROY JENKINS!" shenanigans!
This solution would improve the quality of the game in so many ways for all players not just the fighter. It gives the anti-zerg mechanics that many players are clamoring for; it gives the fighter a very well-defined, fun engaging role. It promotes positional skill based game play on both sides, naturally spreads out the player base in large PvP and helps with the "collision defense" of just plugging choke points with a bunch of bodies.
While I do understand AoE is typically a ranged class roll, I would argue what I propose is a complete separation of identity from the typical AoE skills of other classes. In addition, scaling per target hit by the fighter is the very definition of risk VS reward and could be instrumental in the long term health of the game by providing a more engaging experience than past events we have been offered via other games.
As an MMO player since 1993 I feel it's safe to say that no one finds a 2 hour+ ranged stalemate an exhilarating experience. It's simply boring and it's been done over and over, lets address the issue in a way that simulates the battlefield while improving the experience and stale game play we have seen in MMO's for decades.
While I presented this from a PvP standpoint the benefits clearly would be applicable to some PvE encounters as well, again proving a clearly defined DPS role for a class which seems to be currently lacking in individuality.