The funny thing is that it has no vowel after K, but english speakers are not used to that kind of pronunciation, so the only thing their mind goes is to the infamous word.
The funny thing is that it has no vowel after N, but english speakers are not used to that kind of pronunciation, so the only thing their mind goes is to the infamous word.
I pronounced it several times and didn't get it until I typed it...
Average skill is not the only thing, average gear is what he had directly mentioned.
When I say "average" I mean average. The "70% of players will experience the ttk that Steven mentioned" average.
That average includes everything, skill, gear, lvls, whateverthefuckelse.
It'll be interesting to test this fully, and see how it iterates over A2. I suspect once they turn on the pvp greenlight, many players will be dead very quickly. It would be funny if there were a real-time heat map of pvp-related deaths by level on some Intrepid analytics dashboard. Green to red in seconds.
I pronounced it several times and didn't get it until I typed it...
Be happy that you're not as usa-brainrotted as some people out there
that word is pretty common in my country (in spanish of course). everybody uses it. no one cries about racism where I live lol.
ppl call me whitey and blondie and al sort of stuffs too (in spanish). no one cares here lol
So are you of the mind set an average gear player that is lvl 10, an average geared player that is lvl 35 and a averaged gear scored player of lvl 50 have the same TTk or do not based on their progression in the game?
I expect the ttk to become faster at higher lvls, so the currently presented ttk (at supposedly "middle lvls") would be even shorter at max lvl.
If Intrepid decide to give us way more defensive tools than offensive - cool, I'd be all for that. But from all the game's I've seen - the higher the lvl, the faster you can kill your opponent.
Steven said initially "average level characters" and corrected himself and used the "same level characters".
That means character level is not important.
Average gear score is the important reference because that might be the most used even if players will have better gear.
If weapons attack bonus will grow faster with tier level than armor, that will make the TTK lower and battles faster for higher skilled players. Which is ok for the resource sink. The more they die the faster they switch back to average gear. Or they will spend more time farming epic resources in this game where scarcity is a feature.
But why you assume the TTK for lower quality gear to be faster?
The diagram for TTK doesn't need to be a Bell curve.
(Edit: I just noticed that the bell curve is meant to represent the distribution of tiers across population)
I think it will be a stair, with lower TTK when both players have poor gear and then increases as they transition to uncommon, rare, heroic, epic ...
If the TTK would increase, it would cause problems because would mean armor score grows faster than weapons. So special NPCs would require epic gear and players with rare gear would have no chance.
Now the question is what tier you think the "average" Steven used indicate, when you look at tier levels:
- Poor.[6]
- Common.[7][8]
- Uncommon.[7][9]
- Rare.[7][10]
- Heroic.[7][11]
- Epic.[7][12]
- Legendary.[7][13]
- Artifact.[7]
If weapons attack bonus will grow faster with tier level than armor, that will make the TTK lower and battles faster for higher skilled players. Which is ok for the resource sink. The more they die the faster they switch back to average gear. Or they will spend more time farming epic resources in this game where scarcity is a feature.
INow the question is what tier you think the "average" Steven used indicate, when you look at tier levels
Common, because I expect it to be truly common and rare things to be truly rare.
I expect Artifacts to be singular, Legends to be maybe around a dozen in quantity, Epic maybe a few dozen, Heroic ~100, Rare - a few hundred, Uncommon - ~1-3k, Common to be a dozen thousands, Poors - literally everywhere.
All of that being shared amongst the 50k accounts on every server. And considering that those accounts will have alts - I except majority of characters to have poor-common gear.
Also, this is in the context of gear lvls as well, so some people might be wearing slightly OEd lvl45 gear of Rare quality which might be on par with base lvl Uncommon lvl50. Or smth like that.
1
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
When I played L2, the player classes and levels were very distinct due to the armor and weapons gating by class and level. There were no cosmetics and/or skins when I first played.
With great ability to decern the primary targets in pvp, then a short TTK was quite acceptable.
AoC will not likely have that clarity. With mutliple armors, and cosmetic skins, there will need to be a need to be activity in pvp to first determine what class you are facing and thereby what strategy to use.
There is also no current plans for quick teleport to town or clan hall.. Hence, run (if you can) or fight (if you can ) or be killed choices. L2, there was there instant port to town to fall backon should a fight go the wrong way or you are jumped. AoC not.
For these main reasons, I think there must be a little more time in TTK.
If weapons attack bonus will grow faster with tier level than armor, that will make the TTK lower and battles faster for higher skilled players. Which is ok for the resource sink. The more they die the faster they switch back to average gear. Or they will spend more time farming epic resources in this game where scarcity is a feature.
INow the question is what tier you think the "average" Steven used indicate, when you look at tier levels
Common, because I expect it to be truly common and rare things to be truly rare.
I expect Artifacts to be singular, Legends to be maybe around a dozen in quantity, Epic maybe a few dozen, Heroic ~100, Rare - a few hundred, Uncommon - ~1-3k, Common to be a dozen thousands, Poors - literally everywhere.
All of that being shared amongst the 50k accounts on every server. And considering that those accounts will have alts - I except majority of characters to have poor-common gear.
Also, this is in the context of gear lvls as well, so some people might be wearing slightly OEd lvl45 gear of Rare quality which might be on par with base lvl Uncommon lvl50. Or smth like that.
Poor people will be poor in a world of commoners.
Role playing a beggar will be easy.
People will have bigger problems than TTK
The funny thing is that it has no vowel after K, but english speakers are not used to that kind of pronunciation, so the only thing their mind goes is to the infamous word.
Be honest dude, you made your name to sound like that. You find it funny or whatever.
WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.
It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.
If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.
WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.
It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.
If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.
What if you build evasion and have active block and have some self sustain can you more than double it ;o
WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.
It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.
If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.
What if you build evasion and have active block and have some self sustain can you more than double it ;o
The self-sustain would need to be completely automatic, technically so would the active block.
Remember kids, my character is never just standing there. Dodging, weaving, making people tired.
If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.
WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.
It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.
If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.
What if you build evasion and have active block and have some self sustain can you more than double it ;o
The self-sustain would need to be completely automatic, technically so would the active block.
Remember kids, my character is never just standing there. Dodging, weaving, making people tired.
If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.
On paper all the stat stuff does excite me, but i really need to play it myself to fully believe it. I get to many wild ideas thinking on armor types, and all the different stats with dnd rpg vibes. Its too good to be true v.v, as it gives me the old school mmo vibe.
If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.
I forget if I've asked this before but, did FF11's evasion let you evade spells as well? I assume BDO's does, right? Cause it seems like people are hitting each other with some magic stuff in those evasion build videos.
If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.
I forget if I've asked this before but, did FF11's evasion let you evade spells as well? I assume BDO's does, right? Cause it seems like people are hitting each other with some magic stuff in those evasion build videos.
You have evasion for everything but there is magic, physical and special evasion, dmg reduction as well. Though generally your evasion comes from your armour (whcih effects all kinds of attacks) + special evasion crystals and such. But im sure there is more things they added since i quit.
Yea, obviously, I hate a race, because I can see you making fun with a word. That makes 100% sense, just not sure on what planet.
Just to clarify for you, and anyone else who might be interested, my name is simply Linkin Park mirrored and shortened. I was wearing their tshirt when brushing teeth back in 2007 (when they were my entire personality)
and thought "NiKr, that's a nice short nickname that's directly related to what I love". So I started using it.
That's it.
@Vaknar dunno when you'll read this (hopefully after Saab does), but I'd like you to delete this entire off-topic convo, cause it has derailed the thread far enough.
If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.
I forget if I've asked this before but, did FF11's evasion let you evade spells as well? I assume BDO's does, right? Cause it seems like people are hitting each other with some magic stuff in those evasion build videos.
You cannot use your Evasion stat against damaging magical spells in FF11, but you can use elemental defenses against the element of the spell to drastically reduce the damage, which is something that does not exist in BDO (BDO has no actual elemental damage or defenses of any kind, last I played, all spell 'elements' are just for flavor entirely, like many Modern Style direct combat games).
There is a common way to evade single target magical spells of all kinds in FFXI, but AoE spells ignore it (and dispel it), and it's specific to Ninjas (the other version, available to more mages, is a coinflip basically.
Basically any Evasion stuff I discuss is about the simpler styled Modern games, in which one can use it in the way it's used in BDO. Games that combine 'accessibility' (lower depth) with Evasion build options are the thing where I get to make people 'waste energy' like that.
I got no issues and agree with his point on increasing the skill ceiling. You have defensive skills meaning that your skill level can let you survive longer , and still be able to survive for 30 seconds (depending on class).
Honestly not unexpected at all, I don't know how people think attacking someone for 60 seconds as the average base line is going to fly in modern games lol (average and high end are not the same).
It'll fly because that will hardly ever be the case. My guess is that there will be very very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.
And the PvP that will exist aside from those things will often times just be a grief kill, in which case people will really enjoy a high TTK.
Okay, so that being said, because most PvP will be done with several people(Caravans and OO), the actual TTK will be much less. Honestly I think 60 sec is too little, it should be more like 1.5 to 2 minutes accounting for potions, self heals, stuns, ect.
Which will not just actually encourage coordinated strikes(they're usually advantageous, not incentivized), but give people time to try and run if they do get a coordinated strike on them, or healed up instead of literally group one shot by a few people attacking simultaneously.
FFS Paladins, a high speed, competitive(formerly e-sports), and relatively simple(in relative comparison to an MMO) game still had longer TTK than 30 seconds often times. But it feels like 10 seconds, because time flies when you're having fun.
I got no issues and agree with his point on increasing the skill ceiling. You have defensive skills meaning that your skill level can let you survive longer , and still be able to survive for 30 seconds (depending on class).
Honestly not unexpected at all, I don't know how people think attacking someone for 60 seconds as the average base line is going to fly in modern games lol (average and high end are not the same).
It'll fly because that will hardly ever be the case. My guess is that there will be very very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.
And the PvP that will exist aside from those things will often times just be a grief kill, in which case people will really enjoy a high TTK.
Okay, so that being said, because most PvP will be done with several people(Caravans and OO), the actual TTK will be much less. Honestly I think 60 sec is too little, it should be more like 1.5 to 2 minutes accounting for potions, self heals, stuns, ect.
Which will not just actually encourage coordinated strikes(they're usually advantageous, not incentivized), but give people time to try and run if they do get a coordinated strike on them, or healed up instead of literally group one shot by a few people attacking simultaneously.
FFS Paladins, a high speed, competitive(formerly e-sports), and relatively simple(in relative comparison to an MMO) game still had longer TTK than 30 seconds often times. But it feels like 10 seconds, because time flies when you're having fun.
2 min ttk what did i just read?
very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.
I keep telling people there is going to be a lot of pvp in this game. They really need to drive that home in the next showcase so peoples perceptions will be fixed. I feel we are getting more and more pvers that have never played a pvx / pvp mmorpg with the rule sets.
Corruption is not meant to offer much pvp, it is suppose to be very minimal for a reason. Main pvp will come from node / guilds wars and other elements. If you have an idea there won't be much pvp because of corruption you are ignoring all other OWpvp systems in the game.
If someone heals himself up or so, of Course it takes longer for someone else to kill his Character.
That's not what I'm talking about though? I really do mean just the Evasion stat, or any 'automatic stance that triggers after taking a certain amount of damage'.
We were talking at the start of this thread about the fact that a really high evasion build in BDO vs someone without enough Accuracy could go stop moving to go AFK, get sneaked up on, and still not die before the person got back (that's not what actually happens in BDO exactly because there is a thing that will automatically use a small healing item for you, but that item is used once every 2-6 seconds depending on some factors)
I got no issues and agree with his point on increasing the skill ceiling. You have defensive skills meaning that your skill level can let you survive longer , and still be able to survive for 30 seconds (depending on class).
Honestly not unexpected at all, I don't know how people think attacking someone for 60 seconds as the average base line is going to fly in modern games lol (average and high end are not the same).
It'll fly because that will hardly ever be the case. My guess is that there will be very very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.
And the PvP that will exist aside from those things will often times just be a grief kill, in which case people will really enjoy a high TTK.
Okay, so that being said, because most PvP will be done with several people(Caravans and OO), the actual TTK will be much less. Honestly I think 60 sec is too little, it should be more like 1.5 to 2 minutes accounting for potions, self heals, stuns, ect.
Which will not just actually encourage coordinated strikes(they're usually advantageous, not incentivized), but give people time to try and run if they do get a coordinated strike on them, or healed up instead of literally group one shot by a few people attacking simultaneously.
FFS Paladins, a high speed, competitive(formerly e-sports), and relatively simple(in relative comparison to an MMO) game still had longer TTK than 30 seconds often times. But it feels like 10 seconds, because time flies when you're having fun.
there is going to be a lot of open world PVP, especially for farming spots and bosses.
Comments
I pronounced it several times and didn't get it until I typed it...
It'll be interesting to test this fully, and see how it iterates over A2. I suspect once they turn on the pvp greenlight, many players will be dead very quickly. It would be funny if there were a real-time heat map of pvp-related deaths by level on some Intrepid analytics dashboard. Green to red in seconds.
that word is pretty common in my country (in spanish of course). everybody uses it. no one cries about racism where I live lol.
ppl call me whitey and blondie and al sort of stuffs too (in spanish). no one cares here lol
Steven said initially "average level characters" and corrected himself and used the "same level characters".
That means character level is not important.
Average gear score is the important reference because that might be the most used even if players will have better gear.
If weapons attack bonus will grow faster with tier level than armor, that will make the TTK lower and battles faster for higher skilled players. Which is ok for the resource sink. The more they die the faster they switch back to average gear. Or they will spend more time farming epic resources in this game where scarcity is a feature.
But why you assume the TTK for lower quality gear to be faster?
The diagram for TTK doesn't need to be a Bell curve.
(Edit: I just noticed that the bell curve is meant to represent the distribution of tiers across population)
I think it will be a stair, with lower TTK when both players have poor gear and then increases as they transition to uncommon, rare, heroic, epic ...
If the TTK would increase, it would cause problems because would mean armor score grows faster than weapons. So special NPCs would require epic gear and players with rare gear would have no chance.
Now the question is what tier you think the "average" Steven used indicate, when you look at tier levels:
- Poor.[6]
- Common.[7][8]
- Uncommon.[7][9]
- Rare.[7][10]
- Heroic.[7][11]
- Epic.[7][12]
- Legendary.[7][13]
- Artifact.[7]
Common, because I expect it to be truly common and rare things to be truly rare.
I expect Artifacts to be singular, Legends to be maybe around a dozen in quantity, Epic maybe a few dozen, Heroic ~100, Rare - a few hundred, Uncommon - ~1-3k, Common to be a dozen thousands, Poors - literally everywhere.
All of that being shared amongst the 50k accounts on every server. And considering that those accounts will have alts - I except majority of characters to have poor-common gear.
Also, this is in the context of gear lvls as well, so some people might be wearing slightly OEd lvl45 gear of Rare quality which might be on par with base lvl Uncommon lvl50. Or smth like that.
With great ability to decern the primary targets in pvp, then a short TTK was quite acceptable.
AoC will not likely have that clarity. With mutliple armors, and cosmetic skins, there will need to be a need to be activity in pvp to first determine what class you are facing and thereby what strategy to use.
There is also no current plans for quick teleport to town or clan hall.. Hence, run (if you can) or fight (if you can ) or be killed choices. L2, there was there instant port to town to fall backon should a fight go the wrong way or you are jumped. AoC not.
For these main reasons, I think there must be a little more time in TTK.
Poor people will be poor in a world of commoners.
Role playing a beggar will be easy.
People will have bigger problems than TTK
Be honest dude, you made your name to sound like that. You find it funny or whatever.
Im danish, and I got it right away
WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.
If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.
What if you build evasion and have active block and have some self sustain can you more than double it ;o
The self-sustain would need to be completely automatic, technically so would the active block.
Remember kids, my character is never just standing there. Dodging, weaving, making people tired.
If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.
On paper all the stat stuff does excite me, but i really need to play it myself to fully believe it. I get to many wild ideas thinking on armor types, and all the different stats with dnd rpg vibes. Its too good to be true v.v, as it gives me the old school mmo vibe.
Yea, obviously, I hate a race, because I can see you making fun with a word. That makes 100% sense, just not sure on what planet.
You have evasion for everything but there is magic, physical and special evasion, dmg reduction as well. Though generally your evasion comes from your armour (whcih effects all kinds of attacks) + special evasion crystals and such. But im sure there is more things they added since i quit.
and thought "NiKr, that's a nice short nickname that's directly related to what I love". So I started using it.
That's it.
@Vaknar dunno when you'll read this (hopefully after Saab does), but I'd like you to delete this entire off-topic convo, cause it has derailed the thread far enough.
You cannot use your Evasion stat against damaging magical spells in FF11, but you can use elemental defenses against the element of the spell to drastically reduce the damage, which is something that does not exist in BDO (BDO has no actual elemental damage or defenses of any kind, last I played, all spell 'elements' are just for flavor entirely, like many Modern Style direct combat games).
There is a common way to evade single target magical spells of all kinds in FFXI, but AoE spells ignore it (and dispel it), and it's specific to Ninjas (the other version, available to more mages, is a coinflip basically.
Basically any Evasion stuff I discuss is about the simpler styled Modern games, in which one can use it in the way it's used in BDO. Games that combine 'accessibility' (lower depth) with Evasion build options are the thing where I get to make people 'waste energy' like that.
It'll fly because that will hardly ever be the case. My guess is that there will be very very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.
And the PvP that will exist aside from those things will often times just be a grief kill, in which case people will really enjoy a high TTK.
Okay, so that being said, because most PvP will be done with several people(Caravans and OO), the actual TTK will be much less. Honestly I think 60 sec is too little, it should be more like 1.5 to 2 minutes accounting for potions, self heals, stuns, ect.
Which will not just actually encourage coordinated strikes(they're usually advantageous, not incentivized), but give people time to try and run if they do get a coordinated strike on them, or healed up instead of literally group one shot by a few people attacking simultaneously.
FFS Paladins, a high speed, competitive(formerly e-sports), and relatively simple(in relative comparison to an MMO) game still had longer TTK than 30 seconds often times. But it feels like 10 seconds, because time flies when you're having fun.
2 min ttk what did i just read?
I keep telling people there is going to be a lot of pvp in this game. They really need to drive that home in the next showcase so peoples perceptions will be fixed. I feel we are getting more and more pvers that have never played a pvx / pvp mmorpg with the rule sets.
Corruption is not meant to offer much pvp, it is suppose to be very minimal for a reason. Main pvp will come from node / guilds wars and other elements. If you have an idea there won't be much pvp because of corruption you are ignoring all other OWpvp systems in the game.
I ... ... knooow ? ^.^;"
If someone heals himself up or so, of Course it takes longer for someone else to kill his Character.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
That's not what I'm talking about though? I really do mean just the Evasion stat, or any 'automatic stance that triggers after taking a certain amount of damage'.
We were talking at the start of this thread about the fact that a really high evasion build in BDO vs someone without enough Accuracy could go stop moving to go AFK, get sneaked up on, and still not die before the person got back (that's not what actually happens in BDO exactly because there is a thing that will automatically use a small healing item for you, but that item is used once every 2-6 seconds depending on some factors)
there is going to be a lot of open world PVP, especially for farming spots and bosses.