Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

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Depraved

i dont like them too much, but oh well. id also not stop playing a game I like if they have them, as long as they arent p2w.

Aszkalon

As long as i get my decaying Thrall-Pet that was like sold around 2018 or so, i don't care and will gladly enslave myself to a Battle-Pass.

Funfact. This Comment of mine is both meant as a Joke BUUUUUUT i am serious at the same time. Because imagine knowing there was a cool thing/Content for the Game like Eight to Ten Years or so before Release,

but 0,0000000125% of all Players in the Game will run around with it - because most People didn't Pre-Order anything around 2018 - and those who did are now partially all deceased by the Time of Release and afterwards, or got so bored out of their Minds because of the waiting-Time, that they called it Quits around 2022 to 2026 or so.

The actually frightening Part is, that i can post and comment this here with full Conviction. These last Sentences were by all means not meant as a Joke.

Fantmx

Battlepasses make sense. As a 24/7 persistent world they offer mmorpgs potentially fun and engaging ways to stay involved, get rewards for your hard work, and progress. I don't see the downside.

Dygz

I love Battlepasses.
I want reasonably fun stuff to do after Quests disappear at Max Level.
And Battlepasses give me reasonably fun stuff to do other than repeat the same Dungeon/Raid battle over and over and over and over and over again.
Just finished the latest Fortnite Battlepass yesterday.

Battlepasses don't feel like hard work... (but I probably skip the harder tasks.)
Battlepass tasks also don't feel like chores. The Fortnite Battlepass saves me lots of money.
I don't spend money on the NW Battlepass.
I don't think I spend money on the WoW Battlepass, but... I haven't had time to play it for almost a year, so I'm not certain.

Hinotori

Can we not have increased layering of the monetization model.

If the battlepass season comes included with the sub that's fine. But paying for content you've already purchased is cringe.

CROW3

They're fine - just a way to bound game seasons like MLB or NHL. Good way to focus effort in a short period and keep folks engaged over a longer period of time while a DLC is on it's own track.

Xeeg

No.
We pay a monthly sub for a reason. If the game gets boring we stop paying sub.

Battle passes are ways for 1 time purchase games to continue getting revenue from the players in order to keep them in the game. This is not the Ashes of Creation model.

Ludullu

We have bulleting boards, so quests will continue even when the big ones stop. We'll have active events in the world, triggered by random activities, so those won't run out. We'll have server-wide storylines, so you can move to other locations to get more quests.

BPs are just a chore meant to fomo the hell out of people. And if the BP is designed as an infinite thing with no fomo - what is even the point then?

Diamaht

At the very least the answer should be no for the first several years after launch. If we run out of content right at the start and need this type of thing to keep it interesting then we are already done.

And if FOMO and microtransactions take over then the monthly sub needs to go.

Seasonal events and such are fine though.

Doinks

BPs subsidise a f2p model game, not sure why you would want them in an MMO especially one like this.

Sengarden

As others have said, BPs are usually monetization methods for B2P or F2P live-service games like Helldivers 2 or Halo Infinite.

I've always been one to value pay-for-content rather than pay-for-stuff. If the team creates a several hours long series of quest lines involving a particular social organization that eventually results in me getting some cool new gear, appearances, a mount, something like that, I'll pay for it - as long as the quality of the story writing and encounter designs continue to be good. But I see absolutely no value in just paying for that stuff on a silver platter. What a lame way to incentivize playtime in a subscription based game.

Xenotex

Battlepasses are fine in F2P games and they're expected from the more predatory games out there. It wouldn't be a good look for Ashes since they're the new kid on the block, if anything I feel like really leaning into cosmetic customization and UI customization FOMO would be the best route for Ashes.

If you make it a sub fee with cosmetics alone it would pretty much be the only MMO that exists that isn't letting players pay for power and pay the skip the game to get to the endgame, or pay to speed up their progression in some way.

Battlepasses are usually a gateway into some predatory stuff, I've seen it happen time and time again where games promise 0 pay 2 win and then trickle some in slowly through the battlepass. There are plenty of other ways to encourage a person to fork over an extra $20.

Dygz

Xeeg wrote: »

No.
We pay a monthly sub for a reason. If the game gets boring we stop paying sub.

Battle passes are ways for 1 time purchase games to continue getting revenue from the players in order to keep them in the game. This is not the Ashes of Creation model.

I mean... Ashes is already going to have a pay-for-cosmetics market in addition to the sub.
I dunno why Battlepass can't be the form that market takes. Especially if they also include a free path for the Battlepass in addition to the paid path for the Battlepass.

arsnn

Fantmx wrote: »

Battlepasses make sense. As a 24/7 persistent world they offer mmorpgs potentially fun and engaging ways to stay involved, get rewards for your hard work, and progress. I don't see the downside.

The downside is how they involve/engage players with the game.
Battlepasses are the laziest way to increase engagement metrics for some "suits" jerk off to, while also making money.
If your game is not inherently fun, the management´s reaction should not be "lets trap our consumers with skinner box and fomo tactics."

Finov

I am categorically against battle passes. First, a monthly subscription. Secondly, when I was playing NW, I was really infuriated by the fact that I had to run around doing stupid season ticket quests on purpose, thereby wasting my time. I don't want to do a season pass every season. It's a waste of my time, I don't want to!!!!!!!!

Dygz

Doesn't feel like a trap to me - also very minimal fomo.
Trap with fomo is when the design is set-up to reset you to the beginning if you miss logging in for a day - especially feels fomo when there's going to be a new pass each month, so you really have to play each day to make it to the end of the pass.

These days, Battlepasses typically last 3 months and there is plenty of time to finish the pass even when you miss days.
I enjoy the Battlepasses for WoW and New World, but I don't feel like I've missed out on anything in the months that I haven't played. I haven't played either of those games this year.
I took 3 weeks off of playing the Fornite Battlepass. It's taken me about 2 weeks to finish the current Battlepass and get all the stuff I wanted and with a week left before this Battlepass ends.

What I like about Battlepasses is that they can entice me to play in ways that I typically would not - especially in an RPG, where the specifics of how I play are determined by character interests. My main character might only use Ranged Weapons. A Battlepass could entice me to create an alt who uses Melee Weapons.
My main might prefer to not hang out in Military Nodes, but the Battlepass has me sending an alt to do stuff in a Military Mode.
I typically ignore all of the PvP Tasks on the NW Battlepass. I've completed over 1K non-PvP tasks, but I have chosen a PvP task 3 times. And those 3 times total around 45 minutes out of 631 hours of playtime.
The vast majority of stuff I do via Battlepass is fun - just not stuff that I would normally do differently or I'm not planning to do yet because I have more fun doing other stuff in the game.

Who is "making" you do a Season Pass in New World??

Finov

Season pass is a distraction from the main game. I don't even want to go into this menu. They are terribly boring!!! Only if it is so that it passes by itself. But not like in NW.

Dygz

How is the Season Pass a distraction from the main game when you can typically complete Season Pass tasks while playing the main game?
If they are boring, don't do the Battlepass tasks. Typically, a handful of tasks takes about 20 minutes to complete, so not enough time to get bored - especially not during a 4+ hour play session.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

What I like about Battlepasses is that they can entice me to play in ways that I typically would not

What exactly entices you to do those things? Is it just a random menu telling you "you'll get a reward if you do this thing"?

And if yes, then why can't normal quests, that require specific ways of interacting with them, do that?

oOKingOo

A battle pass for free games like LoL is okay, but not for subscription games like Ashes. If you need a battle pass in an MMO, then maybe the day-to-day content isn't rewarding enough.

Finov

Dygz wrote: »

How is the Season Pass a distraction from the main game when you can typically complete Season Pass tasks while playing the main game?
If they are boring, don't do the Battlepass tasks. Typically, a handful of tasks takes about 20 minutes to complete, so not enough time to get bored - especially not during a 4+ hour play session.

I'll say that. I don't mind a season pass only if it runs on its own. Without my participation in this.

patrick68794

Dygz wrote: »

Xeeg wrote: »

No.
We pay a monthly sub for a reason. If the game gets boring we stop paying sub.

Battle passes are ways for 1 time purchase games to continue getting revenue from the players in order to keep them in the game. This is not the Ashes of Creation model.

I mean... Ashes is already going to have a pay-for-cosmetics market in addition to the sub.
I dunno why Battlepass can't be the form that market takes. Especially if they also include a free path for the Battlepass in addition to the paid path for the Battlepass.

Especially if they handle them the way that Helldivers 2 does. Let us buy the "premium" version with earnable in-game currency and don't have them expire. I don't really see why anyone would be upset if they went down that path in addition to just having cosmetics purchasable directly since it's already confirmed that those cosmetics will exist.

Ludullu

patrick68794 wrote: »

Especially if they handle them the way that Helldivers 2 does. Let us buy the "premium" version with earnable in-game currency and don't have them expire. I don't really see why anyone would be upset if they went down that path in addition to just having cosmetics purchasable directly since it's already confirmed that those cosmetics will exist.

If rewards in the BP are not meant to disappear and the BP itself continues endlessly, letting everyone finish it at their own pace, and the only reward in the BP are the cosmetics - why in the hell is it a separate random menu, instead of just being quests?

Why create a direct immersion-breaking feature in the game, when you could do the same thing but immersive? Laziness? "Just cause everyone else is doing it"?

That's my main issue with BPs in mmos. Especially in purchasable mmos, as opposed to f2p shit that's full of shop windows that lead to 0 immersion.

patrick68794

NiKr wrote: »

patrick68794 wrote: »

Especially if they handle them the way that Helldivers 2 does. Let us buy the "premium" version with earnable in-game currency and don't have them expire. I don't really see why anyone would be upset if they went down that path in addition to just having cosmetics purchasable directly since it's already confirmed that those cosmetics will exist.

If rewards in the BP are not meant to disappear and the BP itself continues endlessly, letting everyone finish it at their own pace, and the only reward in the BP are the cosmetics - why in the hell is it a separate random menu, instead of just being quests?

Why create a direct immersion-breaking feature in the game, when you could do the same thing but immersive? Laziness? "Just cause everyone else is doing it"?

That's my main issue with BPs in mmos. Especially in purchasable mmos, as opposed to f2p shit that's full of shop windows that lead to 0 immersion.

Is the cosmetic shop where you spend real money going to somehow be less "immersion breaking" to you? Because that is already going to be a thing. Having a battlepass type mechanic that provides a different way to get those rewards is different how?

Finov

NiKr wrote: »

patrick68794 wrote: »

Especially if they handle them the way that Helldivers 2 does. Let us buy the "premium" version with earnable in-game currency and don't have them expire. I don't really see why anyone would be upset if they went down that path in addition to just having cosmetics purchasable directly since it's already confirmed that those cosmetics will exist.

If rewards in the BP are not meant to disappear and the BP itself continues endlessly, letting everyone finish it at their own pace, and the only reward in the BP are the cosmetics - why in the hell is it a separate random menu, instead of just being quests?

Why create a direct immersion-breaking feature in the game, when you could do the same thing but immersive? Laziness? "Just cause everyone else is doing it"?

That's my main issue with BPs in mmos. Especially in purchasable mmos, as opposed to f2p shit that's full of shop windows that lead to 0 immersion.

I agree. It's better to just add all these rewards to the world itself

Ludullu

patrick68794 wrote: »

Is the cosmetic shop where you spend real money going to somehow be less "immersion breaking" to you? Because that is already going to be a thing. Having a battlepass type mechanic that provides a different way to get those rewards is different how?

We don't know how the cosmetic shop will work. Will it be an in-game window, a login window or a launcher UI element? Maybe there's a tailor npc in every node that trades your ember tokens for clothes.

None of those would be immersion-breaking for me. But from all the games that I've seen a BP in - it's always a UI window with its own reward structure and even notifications of "ey, don't forget to do this thing today/this week, or you might miss out".

If Intrepid decide to present their BP in an immersive way? Cool. Though I'd still prefer it to be in a quest form, because all BPs are just quests w/o a UI element or a story behind them, which is the laziest damn way to design your reward structures.

The whole point of BPs is to provide regular players with rewards that are either usually bought or simply don't have any other source in the game, while cosmetics shops are just "use irl money to get a skin". To me those are completely different things.

lunarsky

Personally, I am not a fan. I think they're unnecessary in a game with a monthly sub. I certainly can understand and appreciate their purpose in a F2P or B2P game. I'd rather Intrepid just add challenges/trophies that can come in the form of quests (if need be) that give loot and keep their separate cash shop for cosmetics if they want to. I think with each node having new potential questlines and things we shouldn't get bored on servers prior to more content being added as you can always tear things down and rebuild it a new in different parts of the world where things we haven't seen before can occur.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

What exactly entices you to do those things? Is it just a random menu telling you "you'll get a reward if you do this thing"?

And if yes, then why can't normal quests, that require specific ways of interacting with them, do that?

Fortnite doesn't have Quests.
NW it's different tasks than what you would typically find in a Quest - like "5 Kills with a Ranged Weapon" or "Kill 5 Enemies in PvP".
One of my favorite Tasks in Fortnite is "Thank the Bus Driver 5 Times" - which means hop into a game and emote while you're on the bus - before you jump down to the map. Another one I did yesterday was "Drive Two Different Types of Vehicles". Another was "Drive 1K meters". So I could kill two birds with one stone.

In WoW, I focus on the Season Pass during Endgame, when Quests are not abundant.
But, again, a lot of the tasks I do there are non-combat tasks, like Climbing up cliffs or Racing Dragons.

I would say that Battlepass tasks are not completely "random".
Battlepass tasks typically take less time to complete than a Quest.
I could probably complete 5 tasks in the sam amount of time I can complete 1 Quest.
Also, I might be able to complete two Tasks while I'm also completing 1 Quest.
The Quest might be "Kill 20 Goblins" and some NPC would have a story about why they want the Goblins to be killed. The Tasks might be "Kill 10 Enemies Using a Bow" and "Kill 10 Enemies in an Arctic Biome".

Quests will typically reward items that will improve gameplay.
Tasks typically reward Cosmetics that you wil place on top of rewards you earned from Quests.
Which works great for me since one of my playstyles is Fashion Over Function.
Battlepass rewards are not going to help you win PvP. Battlepass rewards can help you project your desired RP.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

The whole point of BPs is to provide regular players with rewards that are either usually bought or simply don't have any other source in the game, while cosmetics shops are just "use irl money to get a skin". To me those are completely different things.

Can you unpack that thought for me?
I don't know what you mean by "rewards that are either usually bought or simply don't have any other source in the game" - I especially don't understand how that is not the same thing as Cosmetics.

I would probably ignore PvP Quests that offer individual rewards, but accept one PvP Task if it sends me farther along the Battlepass path towards Cosmetics I want.
For instance, I would probably ignore PvP Quests that reward money, gear and xp. I would probably be willing to spend 20 minutes completing a PvP Task if that would move me farther along the BP Path to eventually acquire a Stufferton Skin.

In an MMORPG, Battlepasses typically keep players playing during Endgame - especially players who aren't interested in running Dungeons/Raids over and over and over and over again just to get a full set of BiS gear.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

NW it's different tasks than what you would typically find in a Quest - like "5 Kills with a Ranged Weapon" or "Kill 5 Enemies in PvP".
One of my favorite Tasks in Fortnite is "Thank the Bus Driver 5 Times" - which means hop into a game and emote while you're on the bus - before you jump down to the map. Another one I did yesterday was "Drive Two Different Types of Vehicles". Another was "Drive 1K meters". So I could kill two birds with one stone.

In WoW, I focus on the Season Pass during Endgame, when Quests are not abundant.
But, again, a lot of the tasks I do there are non-combat tasks, like Climbing up cliffs or Racing Dragons.

I would say that Battlepass tasks are not completely "random".
Battlepass tasks typically take less time to complete than a Quest.
I could probably complete 5 tasks in the sam amount of time I can complete 1 Quest.
Also, I might be able to complete two Tasks while I'm also completing 1 Quest.
The Quest might be "Kill 20 Goblins" and some NPC would have a story about why they want the Goblins to be killed. The Tasks might be "Kill 10 Enemies Using a Bow" and "Kill 10 Enemies in an Arctic Biome".

Doesn't NW have the bulletin boards? Are those tasks different from BP's? And if they are different, couldn't they be the same and simply give you both the reward from the task itself and a piece of additional currency that goes towards a pool that you can then use to get cosmetics from an npc? Because all the things you've listed sound exactly like random tasks to me.

Dygz wrote: »

Can you unpack that thought for me?
I don't know what you mean by "rewards that are either usually bought or simply don't have any other source in the game" - I especially don't understand how that is not the same thing as Cosmetics.

I'm talking about cosmetics. But as I said, BPs are usually there to give non-paying players a chance to get said cosmetics, while the cosmetic is either only available in the irl-money store or not available anywhere else in the game.

Dygz wrote: »

In an MMORPG, Battlepasses typically keep players playing during Endgame - especially players who aren't interested in running Dungeons/Raids over and over and over and over again just to get a full set of BiS gear.

Like I said, to me this just sounds like devs didn't want to spend a few extra days writing some monologue for an npc so they shoved some cosmetics behind random actions and said "go do chores, if you're bored".

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