Is the cosmetic shop where you spend real money going to somehow be less "immersion breaking" to you? Because that is already going to be a thing. Having a battlepass type mechanic that provides a different way to get those rewards is different how?
We don't know how the cosmetic shop will work. Will it be an in-game window, a login window or a launcher UI element? Maybe there's a tailor npc in every node that trades your ember tokens for clothes.
None of those would be immersion-breaking for me. But from all the games that I've seen a BP in - it's always a UI window with its own reward structure and even notifications of "ey, don't forget to do this thing today/this week, or you might miss out".
If Intrepid decide to present their BP in an immersive way? Cool. Though I'd still prefer it to be in a quest form, because all BPs are just quests w/o a UI element or a story behind them, which is the laziest damn way to design your reward structures.
The whole point of BPs is to provide regular players with rewards that are either usually bought or simply don't have any other source in the game, while cosmetics shops are just "use irl money to get a skin". To me those are completely different things.
Why couldn't a battle pass be setup the same ways as that cosmetic shop? WoW has an in-game vendor for their take on a battle pass.
The point is that there's more than one way to make a battle pass. Call of Duty's just use the normal experience you gain from a match to progress and provide optional challenges for bonus XP (at least that's how it used to work, I know they've revamped them more than once). Why couldn't AoC just do something similar? Have a new "tier" or a piece of the battle pass currency take a specific amount of XP to get and then there could be in-game vendors to get the rewards. It isn't a new concept and you would just naturally be progressing it by doing literally anything in-game that provides XP. In Helldivers 2 you can even find the battle pass currencies themselves while in a match in hidden supply caches.
Battle passes are a great way to add goals and unique avenues for gameplay to complete at a variety of stages in the games life. I'm in favor of giving all players things to do even if it's not catered to me.
As for being an additional cost, I would rather see the rewards earnable completely free in game without a reduced xp modifier. If it has to have a paid component, offer that for free to anyone who spent the minimum price for a skin.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Doesn't NW have the bulletin boards? Are those tasks different from BP's? And if they are different, couldn't they be the same and simply give you both the reward from the task itself and a piece of additional currency that goes towards a pool that you can then use to get cosmetics from an npc? Because all the things you've listed sound exactly like random tasks to me.
Bulletin Board Tasks are different than Battlepass Tasks.
If I could just get additional currency from a Bulletin Board to purchase Cosmetics from an NPC, I would always ignore PvP Tasks and possibly always ignore Tasks like "Make 10 Kills with a Bow".
Also, "Make 10 Kills with a Bow" is a strange task for a Bulletin Board. Typically Tasks on a Bulletin Board are going to care about what you Kill and, ostensibly, that will have some impact on the Town or world.
A Battlepass Task is kinda more about how you play - and are designed to entice players to try gameplay modes they might not normally try.
Battlepass Tasks overlap with Quests and Bulletinboard Tasks.
I'm talking about cosmetics. But as I said, BPs are usually there to give non-paying players a chance to get said cosmetics, while the cosmetic is either only available in the irl-money store or not available anywhere else in the game.
No. I think with the WoW Season Pass, you have to pay your subscription to participate in the Season Pass.
I think it's been 8 months since I last played the Season Pass in WoW, so I would need to re-check what kinds of Tasks the Season Pass offers.
WoW Season Pass does give Cosmetic Currency just for visiting the Traders Post once each month.
That means you need an active subscription, I think.
And then some Tasks are:
Imbibe Zanzill's Poison 50 points
Show Some Love (emote) To Fallen Dragons 50 points
Complete 10 Quests 50 points
Complete Quests in Outland 100 Points
Defeat 25 Raid Bosses
Kill 10 Dragonflight Raid Bosses
Complete 10 Dungeons
Earn 7500 Honor
Fulfill Public Crafting Orders
Like I said, to me this just sounds like devs didn't want to spend a few extra days writing some monologue for an npc so they shoved some cosmetics behind random actions and said "go do chores, if you're bored".
Yep. No need to have a monologue for an NPC.
And it is definitely an easier method to keep players playing while the work on new Quests that include NPCs and Dialogue. Not much different than trying to get gamers to repeat Dungeons/Raids over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to get a full set of BiS gear.
The Battlepass just works better for retaining players rather than gamers.
Why couldn't a battle pass be setup the same ways as that cosmetic shop? WoW has an in-game vendor for their take on a battle pass.
That's kinda what I'm asking for, just taken a few steps further.
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ApokMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The people who defend the battle pass claim its fun cause it gives you more to do, games already have journals like in ffxiv that give you dailies and weeklies. Again what's so fun about hey you need to do this now or you'll never get this one of a kind item.
You can easily do the battle pass style of random; to do quests, without time limits and seasons or any of the fomo tactics and monetization
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Again what's so fun about hey you need to do this now or you'll never get this one of a kind item.
Modern Battlepasses are not as fomo as "You'll never get this one of a kind item."
But, part of the fun is getting Seasonal themed Cosmetics by doing Seasonal themed activities.
The outdated Dailies and Weeklies from several years ago have typically been much more fomo - where progress is reset to the beginning if you skip days or weeks.
Battlepasses make sense. As a 24/7 persistent world they offer mmorpgs potentially fun and engaging ways to stay involved, get rewards for your hard work, and progress. I don't see the downside.
The downside is how they involve/engage players with the game.
Battlepasses are the laziest way to increase engagement metrics for some "suits" jerk off to, while also making money.
If your game is not inherently fun, the management´s reaction should not be "lets trap our consumers with skinner box and fomo tactics."
what if the game is fun and engaging, but also uses a battlepass?
The people who defend the battle pass claim its fun cause it gives you more to do, games already have journals like in ffxiv that give you dailies and weeklies. Again what's so fun about hey you need to do this now or you'll never get this one of a kind item.
You can easily do the battle pass style of random; to do quests, without time limits and seasons or any of the fomo tactics and monetization
Battle passes don't have to work that way. BPs in Helldivers 2, Halo Infinite, and Halo MCC for example don't have any fomo because you can just switch to any of the previous passes or unlock content from them whenever you want.
We have a subscription model. All content and events should fall under that.
If the game is bad enough that they need to go F2P in the future at some point, well, that's obviously bad, but that is also when they can consider a battlepass IMO.
I understand battlepasses under a specific condition.
When the Devs want to hold some 'event' that will lose 'narrative' relevance after a bit, but they want the players to just play the game normally in order to participate in that event. I.e. that they don't have time to make specific content for the event.
Similar to a BDO monthly-type event.
Different games call this different things. But then the battlepass 'version', if you can swap between them, allows players to go back and spend more time doing 'normal' content to get specific rewards, while also giving them the option to just skip it.
So event of 'Tame Horses because Event Reasons! Get reward!' is fun and immersive for the Event, but you can always tame horses. They didn't FOMO you by making 'special Event only Horses'. So in the end, to me it's just implementation. Battlepass, Event, Community Goal, I don't really care what it's called. If it is 'do common content X amount of times to get some reward you signed up for', it's okay.
I'd prefer this to be woven throughout the game in Ashes specifically because of what Ashes is, but for basically all other MMORPGs, I'm fine with this implementation. And for Ashes, I only care because it risks some homogenization of experience that I think isn't so great. (in Elite, for example, at least you have to all go to the same place to do a Community goal, and the difference in experience is where you COME from).
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
We have a subscription model. All content and events should fall under that.
If the game is bad enough that they need to go F2P in the future at some point, well, that's obviously bad, but that is also when they can consider a battlepass IMO.
I'm not asking you to stop, just... maybe dial it back a bit?
I do tit for tat. Don't start none; won't be none. It's a black thing. You might not understand. That's OK.
Intrepid knows and accepts that they failed to hit the "Before 2020" date.
Adding a Battlepass as a feature for a contemporary MMORPG released after 2022 is not much different than updating to UE5.
You can unnecessarily add more context than that if you wish.
i am sorry you dont like the game. I am sure you can find a project or game that suits your "style".
I like the game.
It's not perfect.
I acknowledge their failures as well as their successes.
"Before 2020" is a failure. That is a fact.
The Open Seas is not a failure. Adding it to the design is a success for the Target Audience.
lol. there is lots of video evidence you DO NOT LIKE THE GAME. i am disappointed you have chosen to be dishonest. please do not force me to learn video editing.
Either battle pass or cosmetic shop. Not both. However, I hope AoC doesn't fall in the trap of making in game models worse to help sell the for money designs.
Edit: prefer neither.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
lol. there is lots of video evidence you DO NOT LIKE THE GAME. i am disappointed you have chosen to be dishonest. please do not force me to learn video editing.
Post some evidence that I do not like the GAME.
You have a lot to learn besides video editing.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Either battle pass or cosmetic shop. Not both. However, I hope AoC doesn't fall in the trap of making in game models worse to help sell the for money designs.
I'm expecting the Ashes Cosmetic shop to be in the form of a Battlepass.
lol. there is lots of video evidence you DO NOT LIKE THE GAME. i am disappointed you have chosen to be dishonest. please do not force me to learn video editing.
Post some evidence that I do not like the GAME.
You have a lot to learn besides video editing.
it will take a bit. Incoming. i watch every Theory Forge episode. lol. hehe... cant wait. I will call it the "Dygz dislikes Ashes Anthology". currently planning on using the "You have a lot to learn besides video editing." post in it. (i have a screenshot, just in case.)
Actual footage of themepark/gachs/cosmetics-collector players encouraging begging daddy corporate to suck out their souls and feed them back a portion as a reward. Thoroughly brainwashed.
*Swallows dailies checklist* Yes, daddy, feed me more 'content'. Whatever would I do with my time if I didn't have daddy to hold my leash and buy me pretty dresses when I've been a good girl??
(I won't ever be able to make this statement free of stereotypes.
I just don't get what needs to have happened in someone's life that leads them to actively advocate for brainrot battlepass menus. I doubt it can be a good thing.)
No one but yourself can validate you for all the posts you *didn't* write.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
it will take a bit. Incoming. i watch every Theory Forge episode. lol. hehe... cant wait. I will call it the "Dygz dislikes Ashes Anthology". currently planning on using the "You have a lot to learn besides video editing." post in it. (i have a screenshot, just in case.)
I mean... you've been falsely proclaiming that I dislike Ashes for almost two years now.
I'm willing to pay more for a subscription to avoid wasting time on these stupid quests with rewards from the battle pass. I will not play the game alone, but with my guild, which I have been playing with for a long time and there are a lot of us. I don't even want to hear about the battle pass in the discord who is at what level. I say again, if there is, it will only be the one who does not waste my time at all.
Personally i see them doing a battle pass, unsure if it will be at launch though. The moment there is a market there isn't a whole lot of room to complain (unless the battle pass is p2w). There is no difference between having a battle pass and buying outfits, skins, emotes, etc..
It wouldn't be mandatory nor effect your progress int he game, if you don't like what it offers you just don't buy it. If you like what it offers its usually just a big discount on items rather than spending 100$.
Whole point is just so there is more to do for people or they have something to grind. If they battle passes don't make money from people not buying them then they won't do it. And will just push single outfits selling, or if they aren't making enough money on the game slow down content creation. ?
Let me know if i need more... check out around 57 seconds in. It is fun having you around though.
Yes. You have to find something more than that.
If I disliked Ashes, I wouldn't even test the Alphas and Betas. And there would be no way to get me to explore Verra after launch.
And I would be saying that Ashes has an objectively shitty design.
Kinda reminds me of my grandma's "spaghetti". Spaghetti noodles with tomato paste and sugar.
I lived with my grandma while I went to college. I started cooking on my own on a frequent basis after college.
I could eat a couple platefuls of my grandma's "spaghetti". It was decent tasting pasta. But it wouldn't satisfy my craving for spaghetti.
Spaghetti would at least have to be on the level of my mom's which would include a bottle of Ragu sauce and some cooked ground beef.
During my starving artist summer in NYC, after college, I discovered spice shops and began incorporating freshly chopped or recently dried spices into my cooking.
My own spaghetti might also include some freshly chopped tomatoes, fresh basil and oregano and italian sausage along with ground beef. And then I'd also craft dishes with various forms of pasta besides just spaghetti.
After my mom tasted my spaghetti, she adjusted he recipe to become closer to mine.
I didn't dislike my grandma's "spaghetti" but I consider that to be pasta, rather than spaghetti.
And, if I had a choice of recipes, there's a bunch of others I'd prefer over hers.
If hers was the only "spaghetti" available, sure I would eat it. Because I don't dislike it.
Actual footage of themepark/gacha/cosmetics-collector players encouraging begging daddy corporate to suck out their souls and feed them back a portion as a reward. Thoroughly brainwashed.
As probably the biggest gacha enjoyer on this forum, I'd prefer not to be bundled up in that group. I'm strictly opposed to BPs and just wants quests
Comments
The point is that there's more than one way to make a battle pass. Call of Duty's just use the normal experience you gain from a match to progress and provide optional challenges for bonus XP (at least that's how it used to work, I know they've revamped them more than once). Why couldn't AoC just do something similar? Have a new "tier" or a piece of the battle pass currency take a specific amount of XP to get and then there could be in-game vendors to get the rewards. It isn't a new concept and you would just naturally be progressing it by doing literally anything in-game that provides XP. In Helldivers 2 you can even find the battle pass currencies themselves while in a match in hidden supply caches.
As for being an additional cost, I would rather see the rewards earnable completely free in game without a reduced xp modifier. If it has to have a paid component, offer that for free to anyone who spent the minimum price for a skin.
If I could just get additional currency from a Bulletin Board to purchase Cosmetics from an NPC, I would always ignore PvP Tasks and possibly always ignore Tasks like "Make 10 Kills with a Bow".
Also, "Make 10 Kills with a Bow" is a strange task for a Bulletin Board. Typically Tasks on a Bulletin Board are going to care about what you Kill and, ostensibly, that will have some impact on the Town or world.
A Battlepass Task is kinda more about how you play - and are designed to entice players to try gameplay modes they might not normally try.
Battlepass Tasks overlap with Quests and Bulletinboard Tasks.
No. I think with the WoW Season Pass, you have to pay your subscription to participate in the Season Pass.
I think it's been 8 months since I last played the Season Pass in WoW, so I would need to re-check what kinds of Tasks the Season Pass offers.
WoW Season Pass does give Cosmetic Currency just for visiting the Traders Post once each month.
That means you need an active subscription, I think.
And then some Tasks are:
Imbibe Zanzill's Poison 50 points
Show Some Love (emote) To Fallen Dragons 50 points
Complete 10 Quests 50 points
Complete Quests in Outland 100 Points
Defeat 25 Raid Bosses
Kill 10 Dragonflight Raid Bosses
Complete 10 Dungeons
Earn 7500 Honor
Fulfill Public Crafting Orders
Yep. No need to have a monologue for an NPC.
And it is definitely an easier method to keep players playing while the work on new Quests that include NPCs and Dialogue. Not much different than trying to get gamers to repeat Dungeons/Raids over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to get a full set of BiS gear.
The Battlepass just works better for retaining players rather than gamers.
You can easily do the battle pass style of random; to do quests, without time limits and seasons or any of the fomo tactics and monetization
But, part of the fun is getting Seasonal themed Cosmetics by doing Seasonal themed activities.
The outdated Dailies and Weeklies from several years ago have typically been much more fomo - where progress is reset to the beginning if you skip days or weeks.
what if the game is fun and engaging, but also uses a battlepass?
Battle passes don't have to work that way. BPs in Helldivers 2, Halo Infinite, and Halo MCC for example don't have any fomo because you can just switch to any of the previous passes or unlock content from them whenever you want.
If the game is bad enough that they need to go F2P in the future at some point, well, that's obviously bad, but that is also when they can consider a battlepass IMO.
When the Devs want to hold some 'event' that will lose 'narrative' relevance after a bit, but they want the players to just play the game normally in order to participate in that event. I.e. that they don't have time to make specific content for the event.
Similar to a BDO monthly-type event.
Different games call this different things. But then the battlepass 'version', if you can swap between them, allows players to go back and spend more time doing 'normal' content to get specific rewards, while also giving them the option to just skip it.
So event of 'Tame Horses because Event Reasons! Get reward!' is fun and immersive for the Event, but you can always tame horses. They didn't FOMO you by making 'special Event only Horses'. So in the end, to me it's just implementation. Battlepass, Event, Community Goal, I don't really care what it's called. If it is 'do common content X amount of times to get some reward you signed up for', it's okay.
I'd prefer this to be woven throughout the game in Ashes specifically because of what Ashes is, but for basically all other MMORPGs, I'm fine with this implementation. And for Ashes, I only care because it risks some homogenization of experience that I think isn't so great. (in Elite, for example, at least you have to all go to the same place to do a Community goal, and the difference in experience is where you COME from).
Hmm... can I request that you work on your salt levels for a bit?
A lot of your recent stuff has been pretty unnecessary and is starting to reach the 'just tearing at the game for no real benefit to anyone'.
I'm not asking you to stop, just... maybe dial it back a bit?
i am sorry you dont like the game. I am sure you can find a project or game that suits your "style".
Intrepid... please stop pretending that Dygz is an Ashes content creator.
Intrepid knows and accepts that they failed to hit the "Before 2020" date.
Adding a Battlepass as a feature for a contemporary MMORPG released after 2022 is not much different than updating to UE5.
You can unnecessarily add more context than that if you wish.
I like the game.
It's not perfect.
I acknowledge their failures as well as their successes.
"Before 2020" is a failure. That is a fact.
The Open Seas is not a failure. Adding it to the design is a success for the Target Audience.
Edit: prefer neither.
You have a lot to learn besides video editing.
it will take a bit. Incoming. i watch every Theory Forge episode. lol. hehe... cant wait. I will call it the "Dygz dislikes Ashes Anthology". currently planning on using the "You have a lot to learn besides video editing." post in it. (i have a screenshot, just in case.)
Quickly prepared background music.
https://suno.com/song/33cae59c-076a-4e6e-a0d9-f4ee061bae46
Actual footage of themepark/gachs/cosmetics-collector players encouraging begging daddy corporate to suck out their souls and feed them back a portion as a reward. Thoroughly brainwashed.
(I won't ever be able to make this statement free of stereotypes.
I just don't get what needs to have happened in someone's life that leads them to actively advocate for brainrot battlepass menus. I doubt it can be a good thing.)
Let me know if i need more... check out around 57 seconds in. It is fun having you around though.
It wouldn't be mandatory nor effect your progress int he game, if you don't like what it offers you just don't buy it. If you like what it offers its usually just a big discount on items rather than spending 100$.
Whole point is just so there is more to do for people or they have something to grind. If they battle passes don't make money from people not buying them then they won't do it. And will just push single outfits selling, or if they aren't making enough money on the game slow down content creation. ?
People should just be happy there is no p2w.
If I disliked Ashes, I wouldn't even test the Alphas and Betas. And there would be no way to get me to explore Verra after launch.
And I would be saying that Ashes has an objectively shitty design.
Kinda reminds me of my grandma's "spaghetti". Spaghetti noodles with tomato paste and sugar.
I lived with my grandma while I went to college. I started cooking on my own on a frequent basis after college.
I could eat a couple platefuls of my grandma's "spaghetti". It was decent tasting pasta. But it wouldn't satisfy my craving for spaghetti.
Spaghetti would at least have to be on the level of my mom's which would include a bottle of Ragu sauce and some cooked ground beef.
During my starving artist summer in NYC, after college, I discovered spice shops and began incorporating freshly chopped or recently dried spices into my cooking.
My own spaghetti might also include some freshly chopped tomatoes, fresh basil and oregano and italian sausage along with ground beef. And then I'd also craft dishes with various forms of pasta besides just spaghetti.
After my mom tasted my spaghetti, she adjusted he recipe to become closer to mine.
I didn't dislike my grandma's "spaghetti" but I consider that to be pasta, rather than spaghetti.
And, if I had a choice of recipes, there's a bunch of others I'd prefer over hers.
If hers was the only "spaghetti" available, sure I would eat it. Because I don't dislike it.