CROW3 wrote: » What indicators would you use to judge blowing a long damage cooldown during a fight?
Dygz wrote: » You can turn of UI elements to get rid of clutter. Seems like gamers should be allowed to toggle of Health bars just as players can toggle off Nameplates.
Diamaht wrote: » Yeah health bars for sure. I'm not a huge fan of segmented but it looks that's what we will get. Not seeing any info is really not an option. Hiding basic information out of fear of ganks is insane. Not sure what you are on about with all the "no place" talk. It's in every MMO place.
Solmyr wrote: » I'd like to see how things would play out if enemy health was indicated purely through animations and visuals. Something like a progressive blood splatter texture on their clothes, plus blending a limp, a hunched posture, and/or a labored breathing loop on top of the existing locomotion set (not slowing them down, just changing the way they move). Chivalry 2 had something like this, and it was very easy to gauge someone's health just by looking at their animations, even in the middle of a huge battle. I suspect the same would be true in AoC.
Diamaht wrote: » People playing a video game want a clear visual representation of what is happening in that game as they perform actions. Otherwise it has a constant "what am I really doing here" vibe. Not giving players feedback in a pvp setting for some silly "hardcore" notion is rediculous. "Just push buttons until they fall down" is not an enjoyable interactive experience. The singular greifing example you guys always use, is just a fall back excuse you guys use in order to get to play Lineage 3. There are surely other ways to prevent that one exploit without cheepening the experience of the enitre game. Hardcore stubborness is a big factor in a lot of older mmos dying off.
Diamaht wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » People playing a video game want a clear visual representation of what is happening in that game as they perform actions. Otherwise it has a constant "what am I really doing here" vibe. Not giving players feedback in a pvp setting for some silly "hardcore" notion is rediculous. "Just push buttons until they fall down" is not an enjoyable interactive experience. The singular greifing example you guys always use, is just a fall back excuse you guys use in order to get to play Lineage 3. There are surely other ways to prevent that one exploit without cheepening the experience of the enitre game. Hardcore stubborness is a big factor in a lot of older mmos dying off. So firstly if you refer to Lineage 2 and somehow still think that people for 20 years play with a "what am I really doing here vibe" + saying that you know that "people playing video game want a clear visual representation of what is happening" when you simply say what YOU want then by definition you are not right and I have to disappoint you my friend. Of course, you are right in a context, especially if you played PVE game like WoW while other people were playing PvP games like Lineage2, because I really wouldn't take the health bars of your enemies in WoW - the game would not work. But just the same as AoC, which by the way takes the exact pvp flagging system from Lineage 2, wouldn't work with health bars. No, sorry, it would "work", but it would be trash. And people who don't want health bars don't want it because they played L2 or because they are hardcore as you said. They don't want health bars because they already tried the same system for over than 20 years which works perfectly without health bars and they know what they are getting into because they not only know how it works, but they know why it works. If I would have played WoW for 20 years and someone would come to me saying that there won't be health bars then my balls would drop too just as yours, because you never got to try to play for years in a specific system. It's not "cheapening" experience of the entire game, it's enriching it. It's not that having no health bars has one layer. It is much more deeper system which revolves around so many aspects of pvp and the world itself. And you got me right there, yes, I am a hardcore Lineage2 player and yes, sometimes my answers and posts will be purely emotional and not rational at all because I have such a connection to the game, but when talking about flagging system , pvp, pk, anything player versus players..oh man.. this would and will work and will reach it's potential only without health bars. Right, so you want Lineage 3. I get it. The question is, do you understand the argument against this type of thing? Can you not see how this affects things from a standpoint of gameplay experience? Can you not see how things like this gatekeep the game from a wider audience?
ArnasPanika wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » People playing a video game want a clear visual representation of what is happening in that game as they perform actions. Otherwise it has a constant "what am I really doing here" vibe. Not giving players feedback in a pvp setting for some silly "hardcore" notion is rediculous. "Just push buttons until they fall down" is not an enjoyable interactive experience. The singular greifing example you guys always use, is just a fall back excuse you guys use in order to get to play Lineage 3. There are surely other ways to prevent that one exploit without cheepening the experience of the enitre game. Hardcore stubborness is a big factor in a lot of older mmos dying off. So firstly if you refer to Lineage 2 and somehow still think that people for 20 years play with a "what am I really doing here vibe" + saying that you know that "people playing video game want a clear visual representation of what is happening" when you simply say what YOU want then by definition you are not right and I have to disappoint you my friend. Of course, you are right in a context, especially if you played PVE game like WoW while other people were playing PvP games like Lineage2, because I really wouldn't take the health bars of your enemies in WoW - the game would not work. But just the same as AoC, which by the way takes the exact pvp flagging system from Lineage 2, wouldn't work with health bars. No, sorry, it would "work", but it would be trash. And people who don't want health bars don't want it because they played L2 or because they are hardcore as you said. They don't want health bars because they already tried the same system for over than 20 years which works perfectly without health bars and they know what they are getting into because they not only know how it works, but they know why it works. If I would have played WoW for 20 years and someone would come to me saying that there won't be health bars then my balls would drop too just as yours, because you never got to try to play for years in a specific system. It's not "cheapening" experience of the entire game, it's enriching it. It's not that having no health bars has one layer. It is much more deeper system which revolves around so many aspects of pvp and the world itself. And you got me right there, yes, I am a hardcore Lineage2 player and yes, sometimes my answers and posts will be purely emotional and not rational at all because I have such a connection to the game, but when talking about flagging system , pvp, pk, anything player versus players..oh man.. this would and will work and will reach it's potential only without health bars.
Depraved wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Yeah health bars for sure. I'm not a huge fan of segmented but it looks that's what we will get. Not seeing any info is really not an option. Hiding basic information out of fear of ganks is insane. Not sure what you are on about with all the "no place" talk. It's in every MMO place. that's not basic information. that's like saying u see a complete stranger and you know exactly what he is capable of. its also not fear of being ganked. what? its the opposite. no health bars make it riskier to fight tppl in the open world. if anything, that's what would case fear. seeing the enemy's health bar would remove that fear, because now you know what level he is, what gear, what build, or at least you have an idea and you can decide wether you can fight him or not.
George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators.
George_Black wrote: » What are you talking about? This is a competitive mmo. Nothing is optional.
Diamaht wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Yeah health bars for sure. I'm not a huge fan of segmented but it looks that's what we will get. Not seeing any info is really not an option. Hiding basic information out of fear of ganks is insane. Not sure what you are on about with all the "no place" talk. It's in every MMO place. that's not basic information. that's like saying u see a complete stranger and you know exactly what he is capable of. its also not fear of being ganked. what? its the opposite. no health bars make it riskier to fight tppl in the open world. if anything, that's what would case fear. seeing the enemy's health bar would remove that fear, because now you know what level he is, what gear, what build, or at least you have an idea and you can decide wether you can fight him or not. I have no idea where you are going with these analogies. I don't need to see numbers, but I do want to see progress. Luckily they are at least going with segments. I can live with that, it's a nice enough compromise to protect against exploits and still gives basic information to the players. I don't want to play an MMO from 2004 with a fresh coat of paint, I did all of that in 2004. I want to play a group based MMO that makes you work for what you get, rewards your time, and plays well. One that looks and plays like it was made in 2024. I'm generally not interested in all the information barriers you guys want between yourselves and anyone else signing up to play this game. You want information hidden so that months or years of study are required in order to compete with you, and you are terrified that someone one might know when you are vulnerable to attack and act on it. The reality is, when this game launches all of us are likely to die a lot. I'm about to get wrecked, you are about to get wrecked and you're going to be just fine.
Depraved wrote: » that's not basic information. that's like saying u see a complete stranger and you know exactly what he is capable of.
Depraved wrote: » how is that not interactive? you press a button, then I react accordingly and press a button. I'm not gonna press f1f2f3f1f2f3 regardless of what you do, which is pretty much what happens in wow and similar games. you can see their health bar but its irrelevant, since you are just slow dpsing nd baiting a cd, then you do your combo, so f1f2f3 f1f2f3 f1f2f3 oh they used cd ok f7f8f9.
Dygz wrote: » Depraved wrote: » that's not basic information. that's like saying u see a complete stranger and you know exactly what he is capable of. When you see a complete stranger, you have quite a bit of info regarding their health. You can quite easily see if they are fit or knocking at death's door. Video games are not able to provide us with all the info available from Primate/Human senses to evaluate the health of other beings. Why is why they typically do that via visual meters and numbers.
Dygz wrote: » Depraved wrote: » how is that not interactive? you press a button, then I react accordingly and press a button. I'm not gonna press f1f2f3f1f2f3 regardless of what you do, which is pretty much what happens in wow and similar games. you can see their health bar but its irrelevant, since you are just slow dpsing nd baiting a cd, then you do your combo, so f1f2f3 f1f2f3 f1f2f3 oh they used cd ok f7f8f9. That describes Fighting game combat; not good RPG combat.
