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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Solo Players - Thoughts?
Vospha
Member, Alpha Two
So as the title says, this discussion will be based on solo players. I am currently in a glorious guild & community that I have been in for a long time so I don't personally plan on doing many things solo, but I know a lot of people enjoy doing a bunch of solo adventuring and perhaps maybe I have a solo character just to see how that turns out for some fun when the game launches.
So what are your thoughts on a few things.
What do you want as a solo player
Personally if I was to tackle this game solo and with the knowledge that it's tailored to group gameplay, I would say that for a solo experience I would like to see at least some things implemented in terms of content like for example; perhaps the tower of Carphin has a secret area that only allows one persons mortal coil to enter and it is essentially the same as other games with tower content, you kill trash, kill a boss go to the next level and the Mobs and bosses get harder and harder until you get to like the final boss and for that you really gotta be a skilled player in order to kill it. And with that keeping it to the Ashes sort of hardcore theme, if you die then have it set so you drop everything you got from the Tower till you leave the tower. Then when you leave it reverts to the dropping 20% of materials sorta thing, that way people cant just unalive to get out of the Tower quicker.
Perhaps you can even have mini little ships that you can take out to see and attempt to fight some see monsters etc without needing a massive ship?
Some smaller dungeons that aren't massive and filled with mountains of things, just a small little crack randomly in the side of a mountain with some little hidden corridors and traps etc. (obviously you can't stop people from swarming with guilds but going for bigger fish is more beneficial anyways, so why waste time)
How do you think the game will play out for solo players?
We already know the game isn't going to be tailored for solo players, but despite that I don't see it being impossible to play for solo players. I'm hoping that they implement some sort of LFG (calm down and wait, not a WoW LFG 😂), what I mean by LFG is probably the wrong wording but having the ability to go to a tavern or something and see like a board or something that shows groups and if they are getting a group together for a boss etc. It has the username who put it up and when and where to go, then you can message them and tell them to add to group and then you head over and done pretty much. Think that would be cool and immersive.
As for how it will play out potentially in reality, I see it being hard. I mean if you are artisan main then going round chopping trees and mining etc in the open world, it won't be terrible as long as you keep an eye out for people and stay away so you don't get attacked and loose materials. For people who want to do dungeons and open world stuff I can't really see that being an option to tackle solo unless you are very skilled and just very good at kiting Mobs and pulling set amounts etc. But even then I don't think you'd survive against the bosses haha.
The questing I think will be fine for solos for the most part and just enjoying a nice adventure will be amazing in the game with all the scenery, you could just be a travelling solo adventurer going from city to city meeting people and such. Perhaps even become a merchant and build connections and pay for people to defend your caravan etc.
What does everyone else think?
So what are your thoughts on a few things.
What do you want as a solo player
Personally if I was to tackle this game solo and with the knowledge that it's tailored to group gameplay, I would say that for a solo experience I would like to see at least some things implemented in terms of content like for example; perhaps the tower of Carphin has a secret area that only allows one persons mortal coil to enter and it is essentially the same as other games with tower content, you kill trash, kill a boss go to the next level and the Mobs and bosses get harder and harder until you get to like the final boss and for that you really gotta be a skilled player in order to kill it. And with that keeping it to the Ashes sort of hardcore theme, if you die then have it set so you drop everything you got from the Tower till you leave the tower. Then when you leave it reverts to the dropping 20% of materials sorta thing, that way people cant just unalive to get out of the Tower quicker.
Perhaps you can even have mini little ships that you can take out to see and attempt to fight some see monsters etc without needing a massive ship?
Some smaller dungeons that aren't massive and filled with mountains of things, just a small little crack randomly in the side of a mountain with some little hidden corridors and traps etc. (obviously you can't stop people from swarming with guilds but going for bigger fish is more beneficial anyways, so why waste time)
How do you think the game will play out for solo players?
We already know the game isn't going to be tailored for solo players, but despite that I don't see it being impossible to play for solo players. I'm hoping that they implement some sort of LFG (calm down and wait, not a WoW LFG 😂), what I mean by LFG is probably the wrong wording but having the ability to go to a tavern or something and see like a board or something that shows groups and if they are getting a group together for a boss etc. It has the username who put it up and when and where to go, then you can message them and tell them to add to group and then you head over and done pretty much. Think that would be cool and immersive.
As for how it will play out potentially in reality, I see it being hard. I mean if you are artisan main then going round chopping trees and mining etc in the open world, it won't be terrible as long as you keep an eye out for people and stay away so you don't get attacked and loose materials. For people who want to do dungeons and open world stuff I can't really see that being an option to tackle solo unless you are very skilled and just very good at kiting Mobs and pulling set amounts etc. But even then I don't think you'd survive against the bosses haha.
The questing I think will be fine for solos for the most part and just enjoying a nice adventure will be amazing in the game with all the scenery, you could just be a travelling solo adventurer going from city to city meeting people and such. Perhaps even become a merchant and build connections and pay for people to defend your caravan etc.
What does everyone else think?
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Comments
you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.
PUGing is fine of course, that's just a solo players putting on a group player hat for a little while. But I think the system for getting them into a group would need to be little more accessible than a specific board in a specific building in a specific node. Probably a UI feature.
Hmmm, I like where your mind is at but I can't help but feel this would be too unfair of an advantage. I don't think being able to see people before they see you would be a good idea in a PvX game personally.
This could also be abused by organized groups with good leadership, where they can all remain solo but use that as an advantage to gain extra vision, granted in a small enclosed area they would kill each other but if you are organized and smart enough to pull off a stat like that you wouldn't be dumb enough to go into small spaces or send everyone in at once.
It's a good thought tho.
I can 100% see what you are getting at but I also feel that having 1 dungeon in like each continent or something for someone just wanting to do a bit of solo for an evening would hurt. As it is not enough content to have everyone "flock" to it essentially, I think having small things that give people an option but make you think "well its not really worth it if I can just go with others and do this". Which technically makes it pointless but at the same time many people just want to jump on and thing right I can just go do this, its not much but its something I can get done on my own so I don't have to join or organize a group kinda thing.
So in essence it would be content you wouldn't usually do and not a massive part of the game but it is there just for a little something something you know? Granted I can't say it would be a good idea but its something to throw on the table and sort of think about.
The other point is that there is no need to over-complicate this. No need to give exclusive single character content or power. Really, they only thing needed is that some content can be done in sub-optimal conditions and still reward the player (mats, XPs, etc.).
What do you want as a solo player
Easy: I want ways to progress, even at max level. That's usually where the problems begin. Once at max level the only meaningful content is often heavily focused on grouping. No problem with the best rewards being behind raiding content, but there need to be something else to do beside levelling another character.
How do you think the game will play out for solo players?
Not really worried to be honest. I've seen enough game loops that I could engage into outside of a guild context that, as long as the combat side of things is possible, I'd be ok for a while. Look, EverQuest is often mentioned as a game where you couldn't really solo, but the thing is, that's false. I was soloing with a ranger, then a shadow knight. I have a friend who was soloing with his druid. Another with his wizard. Another with his necromancer. Another with his shaman... None of us were exclusively soloing, but we all did it sometimes.
Playing solo means your character must cover damage, damage mitigation*, and healing** on its own. If you can juggle with that, you can solo. Also, the more classes can do this, the more combinations of small groups you can create that are effective.
* Can be achieved with high defence (armour) or high avoidance (dodging or restricting mobility via CC). Or a pet.
** Mostly through potions for the not healing classes.
Good take, I can't really flaw what you've said and can only really agree with what you have said. As long as there is a way to get rewarded in sub optimal conditions like you have said I feel that for the solo players it ain't going to be too daunting of an experience.
the vision range could be 5-10 meter which is not a real game changer. just enuf time to get on ur mount and hide. you'd still have to be active with the camera.
this could open up a guild role as a spotter /scout which could be fun for some type of people.
Problem is : if you make "anything" to advantageous for when a Person plays Solo - > than You immediately damage the whole Game regarding Sociability and Team-Work in Nodes and Node-Communities, Guilds, etc.
It will create whole Node Populations who are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay weaker than when there would be no "Buff" for playing Solo.
I know exactly what will happen when a firmly organised Team -> and a bunch of Randoms meet each other as opposing Armies on Battlefield like a Node-Siege or a Node-War.
We were witnessing this for many Years in Worst of Warcraft in BG's before the Term and Word "PRE-MADE" was even a thing.
I mean ... ...
... ... if " i " would be on that Side COMPLETELY steamrolling the other Side, i would have mostly no Problem with it, at all. (lol) And i already know i will have to watch out for "Groups" who don't understood and don't WANT to understand how important Team-Effort is, for Nodes.
If you see a Guild which is lets say +20 to +50 People big -> and at least half that Guild is made out from People who usually play Solo and never really meet up with anyone else -> make a HUGE Turn around that Guild in Case your Node hasn't have already strong PvX-Guilds who are able and willing to band together whenever possible.
Because these Guys will get absolutely steamrolled as soon as Teamwork-Guilds oppose them.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
nodes are not ment to be kept at the expense of fun.
This thread reads like carebear covert ops camouflaging by putting on a tie and advocating for "those other players who enjoy soloing, but definitely not myself." Not accusing anyone; that's just what it reads as.
Resource gathering. Overland mob farming for glint and gear drops until you find an ad-hoc group to do something more rewarding. The more rewarding that other thing is, the more the other solo players around you will be to join you. Problem solved.
You really don't need more than what's already there. And the more your efficiency is restricted, the more you'll be enticed to get the most out of grouping opportunities.
I think the severity of those tendencies adjusts naturally with the paths of least resistance you open up in the game for players with that potential.
Temporary solo players wiling to stay open-minded for ad-hoc grouping in games where an efficient group can increase their XP/loot gain 50-100%+ compared to solo play might be far more careful to keep to themselves in games where the xp & loot potential rises by like 10-20% (with the known risk of drastically dropping into the negatives, if the grouping is done inefficiently) from optimal solo play to optimal group play.
If you don't care enough about progression that day to find a group to use your time efficiently with...why not launch a single-player game, take your mind off of craving "progress" and come back to the MMO when you actually feel like putting in the effort to get progress?
This desire of not feeling like doing what's needed to progress, but still feeling deserving of a noticeable reward feels pretty poisonous imo. People should just realise that it's enough to progress when they care about progressing. The free dopamine hits aren't doing you any favours.
jesus you don't need a solo friendly game, you need a new wife xD
Now you mentioned spotters and scouts, having something like this as an ability with a cool down that you could spec into. I think that wouldn't be bad, don't know if they have universal skills in Ashes. (can't check right now) but having that as one of them if they exist so anyone can spec that meaning a solo could choose that over other things and same with scouts. Where as most people wouldn't spec that because better options for group players would be available.
Just an idea.
Normally I'd agree with you, but Ashes is designed around social interaction. To reorient it around solo play would fundamentally change the game, a game that has already been sold to many as a pseudo-old-school, social, group-based game. Opening it up to a broader appeal would alienate the people already sold on the game's ideas.
As Steven has said many times, they're not trying to make a game for everyone. If you're set on being a solo player as much as possible, then this game is probably not for you. If you're exclusively interested in PvE, this game is not meant for you.
If you're looking for a solo PvE experience, WoW is great for that.
I'm not saying solo play shouldn't be possible, I'm just saying that you should be heavily incentivized to group. Any systems that incentivize solo over group, or cater specifically to it, would, imo, be damaging to the social interaction design pillar.
To answer the main part aimed at me, it was just pure curiosity. I was sat watching previous streams and building up my copium overdose, then just had a thought about what if I wanted to spend some time doing solo stuff. Like itfi don't have long to play and put a group together as an example, just wanted people opinions on what they would want to see and what they expect to see. It provides nothing of benefit other than to see how other people look at these kind of things, which is what these discussions are for. To see other opinions and express ideas 😁
forum warriors are a pain. you can tell who they are.
Just because I like exploring alot on my own doesn't mean I don't like group content or doesn't want to play with others but I think there will be enough things to do when one wants to play alone for a while.
I agree there 100% should be a way to find others for group content within the game, I don't want them to make a LFG like wow obviously but I think they need something that's more immersive. Like in my original post, having a notice board in taverns on cities with LFG's and then joining up from that. Would be the best and most immersive way in my opinion. If you need to find someone, you go to a city and put up a notice that you are looking for a DPS, Tank or Healer for your group to tackle the dungeon at so and so or even just anything not specifically a dungeon. Then friendly neighborhood soloer comes along and grabs the notice and decided to contact the person on the notice and join up for a great adventure, sounds amazing on paper
Yes, a helpful tool like that would be awesome.
I'm against automatic group finders and I don't like LFG spam in chat either.
Could not agree more, nothing more immersion breaking than entering a town and all you see in chat is " LF2, DPS, HEALER - X number of clears req., DM BOTTHOT5000 for invite" like really... So annoying 😂 and it's not just 1 it's like 1per second hahaha
What I want? For all the solos to be pushed towards joining a guild that matches their gameplay style.
What I expect? A bunch of solos running around complaining that they can't progress as fast as in all other soloable mmos. If you wanna play solo - expect to be slower than a snail in your progress. If you're ok with that pace - you'll enjoy the fuck out of Ashes.
The game will be playable.
Steven mentioned small fast caravans which will introduce solo players to the caravan system. Those will not be able to carry large crates.
We often talk about the flagging system and 1 vs 1 encounters are also part of the debate.
Then we seen a PvE event where players could join on one side or the other while it is in progress.
Steven showcased sometime the PvE solo.
Most likely there will be small ships too, maybe the equivalent of the solo caravan but on the ocean.
The story part might be solo too.
The group finding will be probably in taverns as you said: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_finder
Your example of the solo secret area in the tower of Carphin feels against some design pillars. I don't see players paying monthly subscription to go and farm there unless IS will invest more effort to add more content for such players.
Would hurt if there are only 2 dungeons and many more players want to go there.
As you said in the OP... "but I know a lot of people enjoy doing a bunch of solo adventuring"
2 dungeons for a lot of people?
alt account or a guildie in comms runs solo, pulls all of the benefits. Hard no. And even if that wasnt the case its still a hard no as it reduces risk.
trust me i wasn't talking to random people like you. i do not care what you may or may not know.
It's so annoying! I am someone who use to block everyone who spam LFG's in the wrong chat channel 😅 it's also a really turn off to do group contents in games that doesn't have any better way than this to finding groups.
Thats a weird thing to say lmao. "I DONT WANT YOUR OPINION!"
After reading this I think it will be just fine.