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Solo Players - Thoughts?

13

Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    However, the question then becomes - what happens if you don't like the game for what it is?
    At that point you definitely just go play other stuff, as a lot of people will when they realize that Ashes won't be for them. It's just that some of those people stick around and constantly complain that the game is not for them, and that it SHOULD be for them or it dies.
  • P0GG0 wrote: »
    you guys spam all day with blocks of words that mean nothing. this is helping none.
    you mixing ideas with endless mental gymnastic intrepid should be doing. you guys dont realise you slowing them down.
    if any of you somehow showed up at their building they'd call security. real life vs social media.
    i'm old enuf to know that the most talkative people on thee internet are not the most competent.

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  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    And by "I'm gonna chill" I didn't mean "I'm gonna go play other stuff", I meant "I'm gonna play the game for what it is, rather than for what I want it to be".
    This is what I did with Archeage when my guild left.

    However, the question then becomes - what happens if you don't like the game for what it is?

    I believe that is a gamble you take when you back an unfinished product.
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  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    ItsNoGood wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    you guys spam all day with blocks of words that mean nothing. this is helping none.
    you mixing ideas with endless mental gymnastic intrepid should be doing. you guys dont realise you slowing them down.
    if any of you somehow showed up at their building they'd call security. real life vs social media.
    i'm old enuf to know that the most talkative people on thee internet are not the most competent.

    rqnkx2ui5gdx.png

    I actually laughed out loud at this
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  • edited July 29
    I want to make a distinction between solo and single players for clarification purposes.

    Solo Player- Someone who does all the content they can by themselves and will rarely group or join a guild

    Single Player- Someone who likes to level and experience the world on their own but will group for group content that suggests groups and will join a guild
    Vospha wrote: »
    How do you think the game will play out for solo players?

    It wont. Most solo players will quit the game before the 2 month mark. There are just too many quit moments in this game for anyone that isn't a hardcore player running with an uber guild. Yes that includes smaller guilds even groupies (people that group up with friends even isn't necessary). Most people keep forgetting the simple fact that MMOs steer away from rewarding ganking people because it's a bad idea, because it chokes off new players. Punishing them for not knowing about the game on launch. It's actually funny because this game will probably have a Wild Star life span. Lots of people will play it at launch but the lack of new players and the overwhelming desire of the community to force people to play the way they think the game should be played rather then how they will best enjoy it. The Irony being if the devs made the entire game soloable every person that wanted to group to do the content still could, on the other hand ensures no one that wants to solo content can. It's some mutated for of elitism.

    Oh and by the way Steven. Grouping makes you more powerful and as a result makes it safer for you to level and easier to figure out your build. This means you should definitely not get a bonus to xp since it flys in the face of "risk vs reward" not to mention people will just group up, burn through most of your single player content leveling much faster then you intended and leaving the solo/single players with very little to do. If anything people should get an XP nerf due to the game being both easier and safer while grouped.
    Vospha wrote: »
    What do you want as a solo player
    What I want is irrelevant, but given you asked. I want what amounts to a tutorial at max level. It would be a series of instanced dungeons which at the end leaves you with a set of ok gear at max level, can only be completed solo, and gives you an achievement which you can then link. This will serve a few purposes:

    1: to teach the player how the class works at max level.

    2: Sets a base line of power for each class to have when doing max level dungeons/raids

    3: Teachs raid mechanics without certain death looming over charcters.

    4: Allows Guilds/groups to easily assess how competent a players is with thier class in comparison to the raid/dungeon they are running.

    5: It gives people who lack the confidence/gear a way to know they have what it takes to raid.

    6: it gives solo/single players an "end" to work towards

    The question is should the AoC devs do any of this. The short answer is no. Because AoC is one of the most anti-solo/casual/single player games have ever seen ever. This is coming from a person that played EQ in 1999 so I have seen some games that shit on solo/single players.

    I'll probably make a separate post on why this game is so bad for solo/single players, and explain why the hype levels are bad for the game.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    so funny the same 10 kids ranting to each other. yall need a job.

    I have never spoke to @ItsNoGood before. It also looks like they are a brand new account. Why are you so against people typing on the internet while you are also typing on the internet? Go ahead and post your opinions and suggestions, just dont take it personally when people critique those suggestions and opinions. Intrepid has said time and again they want feedback, not any single individual players feedback alone, but all player feedback.
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  • P0GG0P0GG0 Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 29
    Dolyem wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    so funny the same 10 kids ranting to each other. yall need a job.

    I have never spoke to @ItsNoGood before. It also looks like they are a brand new account. Why are you so against people typing on the internet while you are also typing on the internet? Go ahead and post your opinions and suggestions, just dont take it personally when people critique those suggestions and opinions. Intrepid has said time and again they want feedback, not any single individual players feedback alone, but all player feedback.

    this has nothing to do with me or you. its about helping intrepid. sadly you guys are the reason forums have become a meme.
    half of what i read out here should be done on a discord chat.
    keep it simple, even if some idea sound bad you will not be the one convincing, the studio will be.
    this aint a social hub grow up.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    so funny the same 10 kids ranting to each other. yall need a job.

    I have never spoke to @ItsNoGood before. It also looks like they are a brand new account. Why are you so against people typing on the internet while you are also typing on the internet? Go ahead and post your opinions and suggestions, just dont take it personally when people critique those suggestions and opinions. Intrepid has said time and again they want feedback, not any single individual players feedback alone, but all player feedback.

    this has nothing to do with me or you. its about helping intrepid. sadly you guys are the reason forums have become a meme.
    half of what i read out here should be done on a discord chat.
    keep it simple, even if some idea sound bad you will not be the one convincing, the studio will be.
    this aint a social hub grow up.

    I may have made the meme forum, but as far as most other forum discussions go its all feedback. Arguments provide points on why or why not to do things. Different people posting different points of views provides Intrepid with a wide range of viewpoints to pull inspiration from and to catch potential flaws in systems.
    If you truly believed what you are saying you would never even bother posting on the forums in the first place as you are contributing to the discussion. You're only upset that others are giving differing points of view it seems.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 30
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    its about helping intrepid.

    Intrepid have a combined 350+ years of experience in making MMORPG's.
  • P0GG0P0GG0 Member, Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    so funny the same 10 kids ranting to each other. yall need a job.

    I have never spoke to @ItsNoGood before. It also looks like they are a brand new account. Why are you so against people typing on the internet while you are also typing on the internet? Go ahead and post your opinions and suggestions, just dont take it personally when people critique those suggestions and opinions. Intrepid has said time and again they want feedback, not any single individual players feedback alone, but all player feedback.

    this has nothing to do with me or you. its about helping intrepid. sadly you guys are the reason forums have become a meme.
    half of what i read out here should be done on a discord chat.
    keep it simple, even if some idea sound bad you will not be the one convincing, the studio will be.
    this aint a social hub grow up.

    I may have made the meme forum, but as far as most other forum discussions go its all feedback. Arguments provide points on why or why not to do things. Different people posting different points of views provides Intrepid with a wide range of viewpoints to pull inspiration from and to catch potential flaws in systems.
    If you truly believed what you are saying you would never even bother posting on the forums in the first place as you are contributing to the discussion. You're only upset that others are giving differing points of view it seems.

    you just posted the same argument twice, thanks for proving my point.




  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    you just posted the same argument twice, thanks for proving my point.
    Generally when people do this, it is because the person they are replying to is so far off yet thinks they are absolutely on point, that all you can do is attempt to reword your point in the hopes that they understand it at least a little bit the second time around.

    Either that of the person they are replying to is simply talking around that point, or ignoring it all together.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 29
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    so funny the same 10 kids ranting to each other. yall need a job.

    I have never spoke to @ItsNoGood before. It also looks like they are a brand new account. Why are you so against people typing on the internet while you are also typing on the internet? Go ahead and post your opinions and suggestions, just dont take it personally when people critique those suggestions and opinions. Intrepid has said time and again they want feedback, not any single individual players feedback alone, but all player feedback.

    this has nothing to do with me or you. its about helping intrepid. sadly you guys are the reason forums have become a meme.
    half of what i read out here should be done on a discord chat.
    keep it simple, even if some idea sound bad you will not be the one convincing, the studio will be.
    this aint a social hub grow up.

    I may have made the meme forum, but as far as most other forum discussions go its all feedback. Arguments provide points on why or why not to do things. Different people posting different points of views provides Intrepid with a wide range of viewpoints to pull inspiration from and to catch potential flaws in systems.
    If you truly believed what you are saying you would never even bother posting on the forums in the first place as you are contributing to the discussion. You're only upset that others are giving differing points of view it seems.

    you just posted the same argument twice, thanks for proving my point.




    Youre right, how silly of me. What you are saying is clearly helping intrepid. How could anyone else who has been playing MMOs for decades have anything constructive to say after all.
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  • ReLamasReLamas Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    While Ashes of Creation offers a rich and diverse world that caters to different playstyles, it is clear that there will be content specifically designed for group play. For solo players, this means certain challenges and activities may not be feasible to tackle alone. For instance, high-level dungeons, world bosses, and large-scale events will likely require coordination and teamwork that surpass what a single player can manage.

    However, the game also aims to provide a variety of group sizes for different content. This means that while massive raid events or certain node sieges will require large groups, other activities might be tailored for smaller, more casual groups. This allows for flexibility in how players engage with the world, ensuring that while not everything is soloable, there are still plenty of opportunities for smaller groups or even solo players to enjoy meaningful and rewarding experiences.

    In essence, to fully experience all the content Ashes of Creation has to offer, forming or joining a group will be necessary at times. The game design emphasizes a social and collaborative community, which can enhance the gameplay experience by encouraging players to interact and work together.
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    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    You will not be in danger all the time.
    Traveling from city to city without caravans will definitely be possible. But with small fast caravans, it will be a nice adventure.
    You can be a merchant too. If you are skilled at predicting prices and talking to people, for sure you can find others to help you out. You just drive the caravan and they fight.
    Ashes is designed for players to have high Risk 90% of the time.
    Sure, players will not be in danger inside of a Freehold House or their own Player Stalls. But people will not be having adventures there.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 30
    At that point you definitely just go play other stuff, as a lot of people will when they realize that Ashes won't be for them. It's just that some of those people stick around and constantly complain that the game is not for them, and that it SHOULD be for them or it dies.
    Well, I mean... that's why Steven is trying to be as transparent as possible and provide Alpha access early - so the devs can make changes the playerbase wants.
    That's why the Dunir got a revamp after Alpha 1 - to the extent that we have not seen them in the game in the past 3 years.
    The issue is more about how the changes being demanded would better support the Core Pillars (...or not).
  • VosphaVospha Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 30
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    Vospha wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    you guys dont understand that this whole thread could be summarised in 4 sentences. then those talking point are sent to the meetings at intrepid. they have 0 interest in ur endless debates when the game is in alpha.
    you social media generation have no idea how unimportant u are.

    These discussions are for the community, not just for the devs to do stuff to the game. The whole point in a forum is to DISCUSS things 😂

    The devs will look at a lot of the forums to see what people's opinions are and they will specifically ask for opinions on many things as they do, but at the end of the day this is here to see what other people think about a topic. Not just you.

    you guys spam all day with blocks of words that mean nothing. this is helping none.
    you mixing ideas with endless mental gymnastic intrepid should be doing. you guys dont realise you slowing them down.
    if any of you somehow showed up at their building they'd call security. real life vs social media.
    i'm old enuf to know that the most talkative people on thee internet are not the most competent.

    Craaaazy how your still spamming your nonsense when we are trying to have a discussion, we aren't pushing our ideas onto intrepid. We are discussing solo playing to see how other people play and what other people would hope to see, we aren't here with massive banners stating we want these mechanics or else.

    As I stated before it's a discussion not suggestion or demand, so please do explain why we would slow them down? That's like going to a coffee shop and discussing with other people there about the coffee you like and then you come in and start shouting "WTF?! These people cant make coffee while your discussing it, your slowing them down damn it!" if your not interested in discussing the top then you can leave. Not a difficult concept my friend.

    Edit:
    Forums aren't just here for intrepid, it's not just here for feedback and it's not just here for suggestions. I can only imagine how much ill see you spamming other people's discussions when people actually starting using the forums to discuss the game during alpha 2 in this 'General Discussions' section.
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  • VosphaVospha Member, Alpha Two
    ItsNoGood wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    you guys spam all day with blocks of words that mean nothing. this is helping none.
    you mixing ideas with endless mental gymnastic intrepid should be doing. you guys dont realise you slowing them down.
    if any of you somehow showed up at their building they'd call security. real life vs social media.
    i'm old enuf to know that the most talkative people on thee internet are not the most competent.

    rqnkx2ui5gdx.png

    Perfection 👌🤣
    zdtha4wxk248.gif
  • VosphaVospha Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 30
    As a solo player myself, a big worry I have is not finding people to group up with when I do want/or need to be in a group, such as dungeons/node wars etc. But 90% of my time in Ashes will be solo.

    However, I do think the rewards system should benefit smaller ball groups/solo players vs zergs as it requires more skill, coordination and teamwork.

    In general, I have never had fun in 20+++ groups in ESO, all my memories and fun from that game have been in very small intimate 4-5 people groups.

    I see where your coming from and tbf for the party system when not doing raiding content or content requiring a raid size group like World bosses etc. You can have a max party size of 8 I believe which I think is how it will be most of the time when exploring the world and doing a lot of content. So I don't think you have to worry about 24/7 zurg fests unless you linger around world bosses and stuff too long.

    Without an LFG system and only using in game means I can see why you might worry, I don't think it's going to be too bad and I'm hoping the design they are going for with finding groups in game will work.
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  • ItsNoGood wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    you guys spam all day with blocks of words that mean nothing. this is helping none.
    you mixing ideas with endless mental gymnastic intrepid should be doing. you guys dont realise you slowing them down.
    if any of you somehow showed up at their building they'd call security. real life vs social media.
    i'm old enuf to know that the most talkative people on thee internet are not the most competent.

    rqnkx2ui5gdx.png

    omg this img is amazing
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • OtrOtr Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Otr wrote: »
    You will not be in danger all the time.
    Traveling from city to city without caravans will definitely be possible. But with small fast caravans, it will be a nice adventure.
    You can be a merchant too. If you are skilled at predicting prices and talking to people, for sure you can find others to help you out. You just drive the caravan and they fight.
    Ashes is designed for players to have high Risk 90% of the time.
    Sure, players will not be in danger inside of a Freehold House or their own Player Stalls. But people will not be having adventures there.

    When somebody asks you if he can have a nice adventure in the game, you understand a relaxing adventure? :thinking:
    Adventure implies risk:
    noun
    an unusual and exciting, typically hazardous, experience or activity:

    if something can happen 90% of the time players don't perceive it as a risk anymore but a constant manifestation of harmful events. Adrenaline stops flowing.
    You wouldn't attempt to explore the map if you would be in constant risk. And when you will see that nobody kills you, will you not try (test) some quests too?
  • OtrOtr Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 30
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

    you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

    Would you find acceptable to activate and increase that vision by allowing more of your inventory to be lootable?
    Lower chance = more losses.
    Similar to how green are protected against CC but if they still die, they lose more inventory.

    Or to trade it against CC protection. You gain vision range and you loose the protection to CC.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    When somebody asks you if he can have a nice adventure in the game, you understand a relaxing adventure? :thinking:
    Adventure implies risk:
    noun
    an unusual and exciting, typically hazardous, experience or activity:

    if something can happen 90% of the time players don't perceive it as a risk anymore but a constant manifestation of harmful events. Adrenaline stops flowing.
    You wouldn't attempt to explore the map if you would be in constant risk. And when you will see that nobody kills you, will you not try (test) some quests too?
    The disconnect is more with "nice" than with "adventure".
    "Nice adventure" is something cozy - like Palia.
    "Exciting adventure" - I expect Ashes will have tons of that.
  • P0GG0P0GG0 Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

    you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

    Would you find acceptable to activate and increase that vision by allowing more of your inventory to be lootable?
    Lower chance = more losses.
    Similar to how green are protected against CC but if they still die, they lose more inventory.

    Or to trade it against CC protection. You gain vision range and you loose the protection to CC.

    depends on the amount of range gained, i'm just asking for 10 meter maximum. ofc people here will make a big deal out of everything.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    Otr wrote: »
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

    you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

    Would you find acceptable to activate and increase that vision by allowing more of your inventory to be lootable?
    Lower chance = more losses.
    Similar to how green are protected against CC but if they still die, they lose more inventory.

    Or to trade it against CC protection. You gain vision range and you loose the protection to CC.

    depends on the amount of range gained, i'm just asking for 10 meter maximum. ofc people here will make a big deal out of everything.

    I don't see how visual range would assist anyone. Verra is not a flat, empty world. There are hills, mountains, trees, cliffs, caves, buildings, walls, all sorts of other things to block view. These are the things that prevent you seeing a potential threat, not how far you can see.

    The only time something like this would even come in to play is on the ocean. However, I would wager a warship would know where a solo player is long before they are in visual range anyway (Archeage ships had radar, Ashes probably will too).
  • iccericcer Member
    rollox wrote: »

    That's just because I do a lot of crafting, exploring, and stuff like fishing. I certainly hope it's not required by these pillars to be grouped up when fishing. And it seems that some opinions on the forums here have a very definitive definition of solo i.e. not in a guild, not doing any raids, not in discord, etc etc.

    What I see Ashes offering is social interactions being created. First through node citizenship. I would say the definition of solo player does not fit with someone who is a citizen of a node. Actively participating in tasks and work to build xp for that node. That's a social interaction that is not something that you are grouped with someone. But it could lead to a few ad hoc pugs of players doing the same tasks going out together.

    Problem with me is I tend to get distracted, and veer off path to go check out something interesting. Having group mates begin yelling at me to get back to the task. For gods sake I hope that do a happen here if I go take some time to explore something.

    Also there will be the guilds which also offer paths to social interaction. I really liked games where a guild has some organized events, whether it be a raid, farming, or PvP whatever. I would point to experiences in New Wold how this worked well.


    I think this is how the game should actually be like.
    I've mentioned it in another thread, but majority of time you spend in game won't be group content.

    Raids, world bosses, sieges, PvP in general, it's all nice to do, but these are events, events that are important.
    They cannot be important, if that's all you do in the game. If all you do is just events, then basically there is nothing special about them, that's what the game is. They lose importance.

    But that's not what the game should be. The game should allow you to spend time doing random stuff, gathering, mob farming, quests, exploring, etc. and then on top of that you have stuff that you group up for, like dungeons, PvP events, etc.

    As a solo player out on a daily gathering run. I could see that an opposing faction was attempting to obtain control of a stronghold. So I went to check it out. Found a few other strays in my faction around there. And we formed a group. Someone in that group called in some friends from their guild. And an hour of PvP over this stronghold ensued.

    Now I wasn't a member of this guild, but I was invited to join the discord. A sizable portion of the players went to another stronghold in another territory. But a few of us stayed back as scouts and defenders. I was still in a small group, and we all kind of went back to doing our own thing around the stronghold. Mining, skinning, killing some overland mob, a boss... And whamo! The opponents had returned and started fighting again.

    It's not an either or proposition. You are not ever entirely solo and you are not ever entirely grouped for content. Although you may stay in a small group out of necessity of protection in some cases. For me this turns out to be about 25% of my time actively adventuring with a group.

    I would really like to emphasize this point, and to add to it.

    Just because you spend time as a "solo" player, doing your own thing, it doesn't mean that the game should punish you for it. This should actually be the norm, because most of the players will spend majority of time playing the game "solo".
    And then, like you mentioned, while playing solo, you can "stumble upon" group content, where you'd group up with players around you who have a common goal. Whether it's defending/attacking a caravan, PvP in general, some elite/boss that you want to take down, etc. etc.

    The game shouldn't force you into groups, by making solo gameplay unviable, but it should have a lot of content, that will make you WANT to group up for it.

    Obviously if you want to group up and play like that, then it should be viable as well, you can do dungeons, PvP, caravans, gathering, etc. together.

  • KingDDDKingDDD Member, Alpha Two
    Solo players should absolutely have content and progression. The key however is to do that within the confines of AoC systems.

    For example, player A goes to an open world dungeon. Floor 1 is designed around 1 player. Player a sees player b in floor 1 and asks if they want to do floor 2 which is designed for two people. Once on floor 2 they met player c and d. The same thing happens to floor 3 and floor 4.

    This creates content that is soloable but also reinforces the need to group to complete challenges. Obviously rewards scale based group activity and size but if you hard lock solo players out then you are significantly reducing the population necessary to make this game interesting.
  • P0GG0P0GG0 Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 30
    multi layered dungeons sound really cool. if its taking for ever to fill up the trinity you can still have fun grinding at the target location.

    please someone make a thread about this.
  • VosphaVospha Member, Alpha Two
    KingDDD wrote: »
    Solo players should absolutely have content and progression. The key however is to do that within the confines of AoC systems.

    For example, player A goes to an open world dungeon. Floor 1 is designed around 1 player. Player a sees player b in floor 1 and asks if they want to do floor 2 which is designed for two people. Once on floor 2 they met player c and d. The same thing happens to floor 3 and floor 4.

    This creates content that is soloable but also reinforces the need to group to complete challenges. Obviously rewards scale based group activity and size but if you hard lock solo players out then you are significantly reducing the population necessary to make this game interesting.

    I do like the idea, though then you are a bit stuck it you end up not finding someone or no one else shows up for ages etc. So I feel like just having a good way to find groups before hand would be the best option to avoid the issue of not actually finding someone while in the dungeon if that makes sense. Like mentioned previously using taverns and a notice board to find currently active groups for example would be great!
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  • OtrOtr Member, Alpha Two
    KingDDD wrote: »
    Solo players should absolutely have content and progression. The key however is to do that within the confines of AoC systems.

    For example, player A goes to an open world dungeon. Floor 1 is designed around 1 player. Player a sees player b in floor 1 and asks if they want to do floor 2 which is designed for two people. ....

    Player b says no. :no_mouth:
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