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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
The dwarf skin and design still doesn't convince me
Artharion
Member, Alpha Two
Since Alpha 1, we haven't seen the dwarves in gameplay. While the latest concept art suggested they would appear tougher and broader, as the dwarves in Alpha 1 looked more like hypertrophied muscular hobbits than traditional dwarves. After watching yesterday's stream, I'm still not convinced by their design.
Of course, there's no single way to portray dwarves, and perhaps Ashes of Creation intends to present them differently. However, in my opinion, the dwarves in AoC appear too short. They seem to be the same height as typical hobbits or gnomes from other fantasy universes, where they only reach up to a human's abdomen. In those same universes, dwarves usually reach the chest of an average human.
In the attached image, the dwarf reaches only the bard's abdomen. This makes them look more like a hobbit or a gnome than a classic dwarf. To better fit the classic dwarf look, they should be a bit taller, reaching at least to the bard's chest. Additionally, the body model should be broader, especially in the legs, which currently don't look strong enough.
Looking at other fantasy universes, we can see that dwarves typically have a similar height range, reaching the chest of an average human, while gnomes and hobbits only come up to the abdomen or slightly above the waist.
Dungeons and Dragons:
World of Warcraft:
Besides their height, dwarves are known for being strong, with big bushy beards, strong voices, and muscular builds. Classic dwarves are shorter than other races, but these attributes prevent them from looking small. The dwarves in AoC appear very short and small, almost like midgets flipping around. Dwarves aren't supposed to be small; they're meant to be stout and hardy. I don't get that impression from AoC's dwarves.
I would prefer a dwarf design similar to those in Warhammer Fantasy:
Or even if they don't look that stout and hardy, at least not that short. In The Lord of the Rings, Gimli's height reaches the chests of Aragorn and Legolas. While he might not look as hardy as Warhammer Fantasy dwarves, he still appears taller than hobbits, which sets him apart and makes him look bigger.
In summary, in my opinion, they should change the model so that:
- They should make them taller, because otherwise they look like hobbits or gnomes.
- The legs look too thin and disproportionate compared to the torso. They should make them stronger and more muscular.
- Overall, they should look more stocky and broad, so that despite being the shortest class, they don't look small but rather like tanks.
- I also think it should be mandatory for them to always have some kind of beard. I believe a dwarf without a beard (at least a Dunir) is not a dwarf.
Perhaps some people like the current concept of dwarves and it fits their vision. In my case, I would prefer a redesign closer to the examples I mentioned. What do you think?
Of course, there's no single way to portray dwarves, and perhaps Ashes of Creation intends to present them differently. However, in my opinion, the dwarves in AoC appear too short. They seem to be the same height as typical hobbits or gnomes from other fantasy universes, where they only reach up to a human's abdomen. In those same universes, dwarves usually reach the chest of an average human.
In the attached image, the dwarf reaches only the bard's abdomen. This makes them look more like a hobbit or a gnome than a classic dwarf. To better fit the classic dwarf look, they should be a bit taller, reaching at least to the bard's chest. Additionally, the body model should be broader, especially in the legs, which currently don't look strong enough.
Looking at other fantasy universes, we can see that dwarves typically have a similar height range, reaching the chest of an average human, while gnomes and hobbits only come up to the abdomen or slightly above the waist.
Dungeons and Dragons:
World of Warcraft:
Besides their height, dwarves are known for being strong, with big bushy beards, strong voices, and muscular builds. Classic dwarves are shorter than other races, but these attributes prevent them from looking small. The dwarves in AoC appear very short and small, almost like midgets flipping around. Dwarves aren't supposed to be small; they're meant to be stout and hardy. I don't get that impression from AoC's dwarves.
I would prefer a dwarf design similar to those in Warhammer Fantasy:
Or even if they don't look that stout and hardy, at least not that short. In The Lord of the Rings, Gimli's height reaches the chests of Aragorn and Legolas. While he might not look as hardy as Warhammer Fantasy dwarves, he still appears taller than hobbits, which sets him apart and makes him look bigger.
In summary, in my opinion, they should change the model so that:
- They should make them taller, because otherwise they look like hobbits or gnomes.
- The legs look too thin and disproportionate compared to the torso. They should make them stronger and more muscular.
- Overall, they should look more stocky and broad, so that despite being the shortest class, they don't look small but rather like tanks.
- I also think it should be mandatory for them to always have some kind of beard. I believe a dwarf without a beard (at least a Dunir) is not a dwarf.
Perhaps some people like the current concept of dwarves and it fits their vision. In my case, I would prefer a redesign closer to the examples I mentioned. What do you think?
21
Comments
Totally. I would only keep the flip for certain classes like the rogue or maybe certain races like Py'Rae, like in WoW where only Night Elf do flips.
But my big concern if the hole skin and concept of the dwarf, they look like midgets, hobbits or gnomes.
Having a shield that literally covers his entire body doesn't help to see him well, but it definitely makes him look too small.
Dwarves should be sturdy and above all else: NO FRONTFLIPS! Seriously, the frontflips looked ridiculous and totally ruins immersion.
I did like the big shield, but also agree with OP that rn the dwarves are about a foot too short
Cleric
The graphic aspect of the game has improved a lot. But it doesn't convince me. The game lacks more realism. Is AoC a fantasy medieval mmo or a fortnite type mmo?, or an asian type mmo?, I can't find the identity of this game.
That also being said there also a possibility that there a height slider for the character create (Cant remember if that was the case when they showed it off) and this particular drawf might be the shortest setting so there also that to think about.
I've thought about that too. In the character creator, each race could have the option to choose their height, with variations specific to each race. For example, the shortest Ren Kai could be the same height as a tall human, things like that. But I do hope that the average height of the dwarf isn't so low.
When the Dunir was stood next to the Ren'Kai it looked like it was being your kid to work day, it looked silly. I wasn't getting the vibe that " they're pound for pound the strongest warriors the world has ever known." Looked more like Frodo and Sam walking through Modor in Orc armour.
I agree with OP, other games have done so much better with their vision of a Dwarf, hope IS take it through another pass, but if that is their vision of a Dwarf then I'll just play another race.
I think their proportions are in a good spot, though you're right that some of the other stuff could use some work. The flip was definitely jarring, and the shield completely obscuring the head was a little silly.
I am more concerned about the dwarf's hitbox in any case, that being shorter for action combat has an advantage and could be meta even, one way to balance that is indeed to make it wider yes.
Not sure man, the angle of your image seems more tilted than mine.
he is crouching to a degree in ur picture when he sheild blocking not sure if that cause of blocking or he actually crouched while blocking, If look bottom left of the shield u can see his knee and they are quite a bit bent probaly like 50-60 degree bend in the knee and above the waist it looks like he leaning forward a bit too.
Like I said 3 years ago, after A1 - don't expect the Dwarves to be much taller or much wider.
The devs did make them a bit beefier than they were in A1.
Can we please remove the ridiculous flips?
Also Dwarf flipps are OK so long as we are not being TOSSED.
im not really a fan with any of the models so far, i feel all the races we have seen just look way to generic with no real style, the dwarf just looks like a shrunken down Kaelar and squished into a gnome like shape lol, i would really like to see intrepid pick a direction of art and stick with it, some of the cosmetics i have seen for example
look absolutely amazing, given this is a full armor set you can't really see the model, but then when i see the model in a live stream it just feels like its missing something. hopefully this is because we are in an alpha, but i mean we can't say this forever, im sure after this time period some things should be starting to have some polish
100% agree.
While i may want to agree with You that they could make the Dwarves a little bit more broad and sturdy,
NO !!!!! We finally - FIIIIIINALLY - have short Dwarves. Let them stay like this, Please. Dwarves are not called dwarves for nothing. Heck short Humans are not called Dwarves for nothing. They are supposed to be SHORT.
We have finally the "short, angry Men with Axes" (lol) that everyone should be concerned to piss off. Don't take that from us, Please.
Like when in the second, epic Lord of the Rings Trilogy the Dwarves fought for a short while against the Elves before the Orc Army entered the fray. The Elves were TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL compared to the Dwarves. This is how it should be.
Imagine how epic it will be, when Dwarves in Node Sieges, Castle Sieges - and everywhere else, stand their Ground against People double their Size and above. How much more badass could Dwarves possibly be ?
The Lines i used in the first Picture - are the "where ABOUT" underneath the Helmet i estimate the highest Point of their Heads to be. The Elves alone are already like double as tall as the Dwarves. And they are not even the tallest Race. They are just very long and slender.
The Dwarves in WoW are already nearly to huge for Dwarves. I wouldn't complain if they would be half a (Dwarven) Head smaller - because well they are already Bodybuilders in Build like the Orc's.
But because the Horde - since WoW Vanilla - have Orc's and Tauren - the Developers i think didn't wanted the Dwarves to be to tiny in Comparison. For that, the Alliance has Gnomes. (lol)
I never saw the Frontflip, but i dare say that is no Problem. Let Dwarves stay dwarvish/tiny Compared to Empyreans, Vek, Renkai and Humans Please. They are literally in their own League of Badass. If you make them bigger, you take that Badassery from them that they have as tinier People.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I don't see where there could possibly lie any Problem. The Dwarven Sir is more broad and sturdy looking than the Human Lady. And Yes i am aware Women are more slender and not as broad as Men. But neither is he so small that he is like a Gnome or Halfling compared to her - nor does he look weak and not sturdy enough.
I am aware when he crouched and stood behind his Shield for a strong Block - he looked tinier by a bit than he actually is.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Elves are taller than humans on average, which is why in your image, the dwarves' height doesn't reach their chests. As shown in the LOTR trilogy, dwarves are a bit shorter.
I was expecting the proportions to be more like this to be honest, think the proportions of the new model, as I mentioned above, are just off to me. Think this and the Armoured Dunir model Chicago shared look good, the Dunir in the Bard showcase looks a bit squashed down.
About the dwarf's height I can't yet say my opinion. In some way it looked comical that the dwarf was so short and could hide completely behind his shield but I think the dwarf could be more sturdy. Let's not forget that we haven't seen yet the new character creator.
What comes into those front flips I don't care. Intrepid can do whatever they want with those flips.
The size didn't really trigger me. in my opinion the flip should perhaps be reconsidered, although that wouldn't be a turn-off for me either.
Maybe then the players won't jump around so wildly and pointlessly