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The dwarf skin and design still doesn't convince me

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Comments

  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2024
    @Gaettusk ... You are aware the the Dunir and Renkai models were changed/tweaked after community feedback during alpha 1 right? None of this development has been sent in stone. Intrepid do tend to listen it's just that pride often gets in the way sometimes, Or there are to many YES men around Steven who are afraid of stepping on his sandals...

    As a player who is/was planning to play a Bard Dunir the Bard showcase took precedent...I could have commented about BrianF's beardless Dunir jump flips hitching on the environment...Or weather or not the flips cancel out attacks and skills and could be exploited to skill cancel in rotations...

    But I opted to show my appreciation of how the Bard Class turned out...

    Then the next day my 3 year old Dunir Flip thread gets bumped...Not by me by the way. But Im not shy of twisting the blade when its shown.

    I'm not anti flip jump...It's just not Dunir dwarf appropriate. I have made justifiable examples why it would be better that the Nikua get it and yet there seems none of you "free thinking development types" logically supporting the move...

    So I am more perplexed by the behavior and sentiment by the individuals like you Gaettusk. Because from my point of view, giving the Nikua a front flip basic jump actually makes logical sense and gives greater emphasis to the game lore narrative. Acrobatics tends to be a tribal pastime or linked to initiation rights of passage, the Nikua are perfect candidates...The Dunir are the polar opposite in culture and mannerism. But whatever seems people don't give 2 brain cells a rub together to care for lore in a game that's hopefully meant to last a decade or more...

    As for the general look of the models improvements have been made, So I hope further changes are made in a positive light as clearly we're not quite there yet...But its important Intrepid gets all forms of feedback and not just panderers
  • Darth KaderDarth Kader Member, Alpha Two
    I Agree I would much prefer a traditional LOTR lookiong dwarf rather than the currently proposed
    Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
  • Darth KaderDarth Kader Member, Alpha Two
    -T0Mb- wrote: »
    I was disappointed because the dwarf didn't have any beard. Beards are the most common detail on dwarves (especially on males). If the beard models for dwarves aren't ready yet why Intrepid even showed this unfinished beardless model for us in the game?

    About the dwarf's height I can't yet say my opinion. In some way it looked comical that the dwarf was so short and could hide completely behind his shield but I think the dwarf could be more sturdy. Let's not forget that we haven't seen yet the new character creator. ;)

    What comes into those front flips I don't care. Intrepid can do whatever they want with those flips.

    im assuiming beards will be a customisable option?
    Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    nogl7vygju24.png

    I'm glad that the thread about Dwarves has derailed into someone claiming to have a PHD in Vek facial features and then deflecting to some weird argument about how criticism of Vek faces has to come from one wanting to sexualize pixels. Like what? Do some people not think before they post?

    He said outright he doesn’t play female characters, then complained about the same armor not looking hot/sexy when equipped on women. 1+1=2 isn’t exactly complex.

    If you’d like to level criticism for derailing, you could start with the guy that went off about how Intrepid’s normal looking women aren’t hot enough and also ranted about how female dwarves with beards is an unthinkable and hideous concept as something to offer players.

    None of this actually changes that dwarves flipping with the current animation looks absurd and lacks all sense of mass. The animations in general need another pass to fix that floaty factor that persists across a lot of movement. Even the fighter showcase has instances of the player’s feet sliding on the ground.

    What's absurd is you complaining about the physicality of Dwarves and then trying to strawman that guy who complained that Veks have no meaningful distinction between the sexes when it comes to facial features, and it's true. My favorite part was you trying to make it a matter of attractiveness and saying he needed to lay off the pron. With that logic, the people complaining about Dwarf physical features should lay off the homoerotica, your logic btw. Also, flips are great, as 99.99% of the population think

    You could easily read back and see it isn't a strawman. It's what was said, outright, in very clear text, not mincing words there.
    haa, whats the point , its not like the female models in Ahses look like actual females or the armors got any hint of femininity and uniquness , its either dudes or dudes with bras is what we playing. and they never answered the question and and probably avoiding it , if they dont say anything about it in the upcoming AMA they'll just be your typical western devs wanna make everything ugly despite knowing 99% of the players want actualy good looking females in the game along with cool and feminine,hot..etc armors instead of a copy of the male ones.


    You also haven't addressed my point in any way, which is that the dwarven flip animations as they exist don't convey any sense of weight, which makes them look very goofy, cartoony, and overall mismatched to the otherwise realistic aesthetics Ashes is using. It's an issue that isn't exclusive to that particular animation, but it is much more glaring when the stout, stocky race (a description from the developers themselves) is doing acrobatics as a casual part of motion with no lead-up motion, no particular hang time with the inherent inertia behind a dense build, and no oomph to the landing.

    I'll kindly ask that if you want to continue a discussion to address the point above, and stop contributing to the derailing.
    <snipped as it contained no relevant reply>

    Since you won’t participate in good faith, either intentionally or otherwise, I’m no longer going to engage with your lengthy rants about unrelated and non relevant topics.
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    <snipped the ping> ... You are aware the the Dunir and Renkai models were changed/tweaked after community feedback during alpha 1 right? None of this development has been sent in stone. Intrepid do tend to listen it's just that pride often gets in the way sometimes, Or there are to many YES men around Steven who are afraid of stepping on his sandals...

    As a player who is/was planning to play a Bard Dunir the Bard showcase took precedent...I could have commented about BrianF's beardless Dunir jump flips hitching on the environment...Or weather or not the flips cancel out attacks and skills and could be exploited to skill cancel in rotations...

    But I opted to show my appreciation of how the Bard Class turned out...

    Then the next day my 3 year old Dunir Flip thread gets bumped...Not by me by the way. But Im not shy of twisting the blade when its shown.

    I'm not anti flip jump...It's just not Dunir dwarf appropriate. I have made justifiable examples why it would be better that the Nikua get it and yet there seems none of you "free thinking development types" logically supporting the move...

    So I am more perplexed by the behavior and sentiment by the individuals like you Gaettusk. Because from my point of view, giving the Nikua a front flip basic jump actually makes logical sense and gives greater emphasis to the game lore narrative. Acrobatics tends to be a tribal pastime or linked to initiation rights of passage, the Nikua are perfect candidates...The Dunir are the polar opposite in culture and mannerism. But whatever seems people don't give 2 brain cells a rub together to care for lore in a game that's hopefully meant to last a decade or more...

    As for the general look of the models improvements have been made, So I hope further changes are made in a positive light as clearly we're not quite there yet...But its important Intrepid gets all forms of feedback and not just panderers

    You’ve got the right of it. Nikua having a coastal culture lends itself well to acrobatics like that, though the animation still definitely needs some work to make it look right and get that floaty, levitating aspect out of the overall vibe. Even a little dust cloud at the feet on landing would do a lot to add some visual oomph.
  • SmaashleySmaashley Member, Alpha Two
    Personnally, I don't really care that dwarves can front flip, I think it looks badass. BUT for those of you role-playing, I can totally understand the concern.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    " S~oo ... ... ... ... ... what kind of Dwarves are you ? "




    " The kind that doesn't like People always complaining about our design. "




    " O~hhh ... ... ... i like You Guys already. "



    qay1d57auds4.jpg








    Now with a Heavy Mithril- UMMMM i mean Heavy Metal Version. :sunglasses:





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CZjsEI1yU&amp;t=5s
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
  • AyeveeGaming11AyeveeGaming11 Member
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    nogl7vygju24.png

    I'm glad that the thread about Dwarves has derailed into someone claiming to have a PHD in Vek facial features and then deflecting to some weird argument about how criticism of Vek faces has to come from one wanting to sexualize pixels. Like what? Do some people not think before they post?

    He said outright he doesn’t play female characters, then complained about the same armor not looking hot/sexy when equipped on women. 1+1=2 isn’t exactly complex.

    If you’d like to level criticism for derailing, you could start with the guy that went off about how Intrepid’s normal looking women aren’t hot enough and also ranted about how female dwarves with beards is an unthinkable and hideous concept as something to offer players.

    None of this actually changes that dwarves flipping with the current animation looks absurd and lacks all sense of mass. The animations in general need another pass to fix that floaty factor that persists across a lot of movement. Even the fighter showcase has instances of the player’s feet sliding on the ground.

    What's absurd is you complaining about the physicality of Dwarves and then trying to strawman that guy who complained that Veks have no meaningful distinction between the sexes when it comes to facial features, and it's true. My favorite part was you trying to make it a matter of attractiveness and saying he needed to lay off the pron. With that logic, the people complaining about Dwarf physical features should lay off the homoerotica, your logic btw. Also, flips are great, as 99.99% of the population think

    You could easily read back and see it isn't a strawman. It's what was said, outright, in very clear text, not mincing words there.
    haa, whats the point , its not like the female models in Ahses look like actual females or the armors got any hint of femininity and uniquness , its either dudes or dudes with bras is what we playing. and they never answered the question and and probably avoiding it , if they dont say anything about it in the upcoming AMA they'll just be your typical western devs wanna make everything ugly despite knowing 99% of the players want actualy good looking females in the game along with cool and feminine,hot..etc armors instead of a copy of the male ones.


    You also haven't addressed my point in any way, which is that the dwarven flip animations as they exist don't convey any sense of weight, which makes them look very goofy, cartoony, and overall mismatched to the otherwise realistic aesthetics Ashes is using. It's an issue that isn't exclusive to that particular animation, but it is much more glaring when the stout, stocky race (a description from the developers themselves) is doing acrobatics as a casual part of motion with no lead-up motion, no particular hang time with the inherent inertia behind a dense build, and no oomph to the landing.

    I'll kindly ask that if you want to continue a discussion to address the point above, and stop contributing to the derailing.

    "I'm going to derail and when called out, I'm going to strawman all opposition and ask people to pigeonhole their replies to what I want the conversation to be based on my erroneous desire for a fantasy game to be hyper realistic, but only in ways that I want it to be realistic."

    You rn

    As 99.99% of the community have shown. Flips are good, no flips are bad. Also, you did strawman the eff out of that guy's point, which was hilarious as you're one of the ones obsessed with the physical looks of Dwarves, pot meet kettle moment.



    Aszkalon wrote: »
    " S~oo ... ... ... ... ... what kind of Dwarves are you ? "




    " The kind that doesn't like People always complaining about our design. "




    " O~hhh ... ... ... i like You Guys already. "



    qay1d57auds4.jpg








    Now with a Heavy Mithril- UMMMM i mean Heavy Metal Version. :sunglasses:





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CZjsEI1yU&amp;t=5s

    Thats an awesome video :)
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    just throwing my 2 cents in. I would want to see the dwarves just upscaled to be taller and a bit thicker. Chest height to a human at the tallest. They are basically gnomes atm.
    8vf24h7y7lio.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • The_HippoThe_Hippo Member, Alpha Two
    I'm a certified dwarf mainer, and truth be told I don't mind the flips. My guess is they are using the animation so that dwarves can jump the same height as other races without them looking like Mario when they jump.

    I'm pretty sure we won't get a smaller race then dwarves so the height doesn't bother me either.

    I do agree however with the idea of making them beefier.

    Also I don't think I saw a beard on the dwarf in the bard video, and that is going right into the book of grudges.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Smaashley wrote: »
    Personnally, I don't really care that dwarves can front flip, I think it looks badass. BUT for those of you role-playing, I can totally understand the concern.
    I mean... players should probably be roleplaying according to the lore and mechanics of the specific game they are playing - rather than roleplaying based on the expectations they are bringing from a different setting.
    Dünir are not from Middle-Earth. Nor does Ashes take place on Middle-Earth.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2024
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    nogl7vygju24.png

    I'm glad that the thread about Dwarves has derailed into someone claiming to have a PHD in Vek facial features and then deflecting to some weird argument about how criticism of Vek faces has to come from one wanting to sexualize pixels. Like what? Do some people not think before they post?

    He said outright he doesn’t play female characters, then complained about the same armor not looking hot/sexy when equipped on women. 1+1=2 isn’t exactly complex.

    If you’d like to level criticism for derailing, you could start with the guy that went off about how Intrepid’s normal looking women aren’t hot enough and also ranted about how female dwarves with beards is an unthinkable and hideous concept as something to offer players.

    None of this actually changes that dwarves flipping with the current animation looks absurd and lacks all sense of mass. The animations in general need another pass to fix that floaty factor that persists across a lot of movement. Even the fighter showcase has instances of the player’s feet sliding on the ground.

    What's absurd is you complaining about the physicality of Dwarves and then trying to strawman that guy who complained that Veks have no meaningful distinction between the sexes when it comes to facial features, and it's true. My favorite part was you trying to make it a matter of attractiveness and saying he needed to lay off the pron. With that logic, the people complaining about Dwarf physical features should lay off the homoerotica, your logic btw. Also, flips are great, as 99.99% of the population think

    You could easily read back and see it isn't a strawman. It's what was said, outright, in very clear text, not mincing words there.
    haa, whats the point , its not like the female models in Ahses look like actual females or the armors got any hint of femininity and uniquness , its either dudes or dudes with bras is what we playing. and they never answered the question and and probably avoiding it , if they dont say anything about it in the upcoming AMA they'll just be your typical western devs wanna make everything ugly despite knowing 99% of the players want actualy good looking females in the game along with cool and feminine,hot..etc armors instead of a copy of the male ones.


    You also haven't addressed my point in any way, which is that the dwarven flip animations as they exist don't convey any sense of weight, which makes them look very goofy, cartoony, and overall mismatched to the otherwise realistic aesthetics Ashes is using. It's an issue that isn't exclusive to that particular animation, but it is much more glaring when the stout, stocky race (a description from the developers themselves) is doing acrobatics as a casual part of motion with no lead-up motion, no particular hang time with the inherent inertia behind a dense build, and no oomph to the landing.

    I'll kindly ask that if you want to continue a discussion to address the point above, and stop contributing to the derailing.
    <snipped as it contained no relevant reply>

    Since you won’t participate in good faith, either intentionally or otherwise, I’m no longer going to engage with your lengthy rants about unrelated and non relevant topics.
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    <snipped the ping> ... You are aware the the Dunir and Renkai models were changed/tweaked after community feedback during alpha 1 right? None of this development has been sent in stone. Intrepid do tend to listen it's just that pride often gets in the way sometimes, Or there are to many YES men around Steven who are afraid of stepping on his sandals...

    As a player who is/was planning to play a Bard Dunir the Bard showcase took precedent...I could have commented about BrianF's beardless Dunir jump flips hitching on the environment...Or weather or not the flips cancel out attacks and skills and could be exploited to skill cancel in rotations...

    But I opted to show my appreciation of how the Bard Class turned out...

    Then the next day my 3 year old Dunir Flip thread gets bumped...Not by me by the way. But Im not shy of twisting the blade when its shown.

    I'm not anti flip jump...It's just not Dunir dwarf appropriate. I have made justifiable examples why it would be better that the Nikua get it and yet there seems none of you "free thinking development types" logically supporting the move...

    So I am more perplexed by the behavior and sentiment by the individuals like you Gaettusk. Because from my point of view, giving the Nikua a front flip basic jump actually makes logical sense and gives greater emphasis to the game lore narrative. Acrobatics tends to be a tribal pastime or linked to initiation rights of passage, the Nikua are perfect candidates...The Dunir are the polar opposite in culture and mannerism. But whatever seems people don't give 2 brain cells a rub together to care for lore in a game that's hopefully meant to last a decade or more...

    As for the general look of the models improvements have been made, So I hope further changes are made in a positive light as clearly we're not quite there yet...But its important Intrepid gets all forms of feedback and not just panderers

    You’ve got the right of it. Nikua having a coastal culture lends itself well to acrobatics like that, though the animation still definitely needs some work to make it look right and get that floaty, levitating aspect out of the overall vibe. Even a little dust cloud at the feet on landing would do a lot to add some visual oomph.

    Yet here you are tagging me. Here's the right hook so I stop wasting my time with jabs. Everquest still has thousands playing it, and it was released in 1999. It has the same exact dwarf jump. Guess what, it's a classic and stands the test of time. #DwarfRollOnHaters

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFXUYl2ljqI

    I'd just like to point out that the Dwarfs in EQ 2 could only flip after finding an easter egg. Secondly the flip parkour clip you have shown clearly demonstrates that flips arc down obstacles (like in real life parkour/free running) Which I have stipulated many times.

    Look I have stated many times now that I approve of the Dunir tumbling and rolling (like rocks) My issue is having them defy their own core lore principals in game and have a jump/flip as a mandatory baseline kit.

    I have asked multiple occasions of any proof that front flipping from the ground up onto an object makes logical sense and does not defy basic physics.

    The argument that the Dunir should should jump and front flip as standard is made even more bogus by your own "proof of concept"

    From an Ashes of Creation own lore narrative the Dunir should not flip jump as it is 100% out of character.

    If a race Is still desired to front flip jump then the Nikua by all merits should be the primary race candidate and offer the players a choice to jump flip to their hearts desire.

    If the Ashes of Creation Lore implies the Dunir represent all things Fire and Earth elementally speaking and the Nikua represent Air and Water respectfully...

    Then I see absolutely no reason as to why Dunir obtain any acrobatic character sheet bonus...if anything they should have a penalty.

    But keep going Gaettusk, I am actually enjoying watching you paint yourself into a conundrum corner...I look forward to you digging your own grave without a paddle and jump flipping down into it...
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It doesn't fit with your (mis)interpretation of the Ashes lore.
    We got it.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    How about this for a Hypothetical Lore scenario Dygz...

    A Dunir dwarf can learn the abilty to jump flip (EQ2 Easter Egg homage) By visiting a Nikua built node and perform a right of passage initiation trial/quest. However by accepting this ability you will have to cut/remove your beard/facial hair because it offends the Nikua flip god/spirits..

    Is that a (mis)interpretation of Ashes Lore Dygz?

    Or shall I forever be blessed with your prancing displays....
  • GreatPhilisopherGreatPhilisopher Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2024
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Gaettusk wrote: »
    nogl7vygju24.png

    I'm glad that the thread about Dwarves has derailed into someone claiming to have a PHD in Vek facial features and then deflecting to some weird argument about how criticism of Vek faces has to come from one wanting to sexualize pixels. Like what? Do some people not think before they post?

    He said outright he doesn’t play female characters, then complained about the same armor not looking hot/sexy when equipped on women. 1+1=2 isn’t exactly complex.

    If you’d like to level criticism for derailing, you could start with the guy that went off about how Intrepid’s normal looking women aren’t hot enough and also ranted about how female dwarves with beards is an unthinkable and hideous concept as something to offer players.

    None of this actually changes that dwarves flipping with the current animation looks absurd and lacks all sense of mass. The animations in general need another pass to fix that floaty factor that persists across a lot of movement. Even the fighter showcase has instances of the player’s feet sliding on the ground.

    ah yes , i like how he just took one thing out of all of what i said , me not playing females does not stop me from wanting the females to look better and look good , i got a few female friends who all have the same problem with the game models and armors , its just true .

    and i also said pretty and unique first nor did i say i want BIKINI ARMORS but hot like dresses and stuff , but i guess u just like to project your thoughts into others lol.

    oh i also dont think the male armors are looking too hot (cool so u dont project more) either especially the helmets as they are mostly horrendous or just boring but they at least are a lot better compared to their counterpart.
    ykwk7qwgw5os.jpg
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    How about this for a Hypothetical Lore scenario Dygz...

    A Dunir dwarf can learn the abilty to jump flip (EQ2 Easter Egg homage) By visiting a Nikua built node and perform a right of passage initiation trial/quest. However by accepting this ability you will have to cut/remove your beard/facial hair because it offends the Nikua flip god/spirits..

    Is that a (mis)interpretation of Ashes Lore Dygz?

    Or shall I forever be blessed with your prancing displays....
    Apparently, the Dünir don't have to learn to flip from the Niküa. The magic of Verra allows all Dünir to flip.
    Right of passage is just stuff you've made up in your own head, so it's really a you problem.

    But... everything is subject to change.
    We'll see how it all works at launch.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2024
    The only actual problem here is Dygz is you fell out of your rocking chair, off the porch and are now prancing about like a dizzy orc trying to save face.

    I see you adopted the "because magic" Macguffin...Well done Jar Jar...

    I will also refute that the accusation most of this is in my head interpretation and is a matter of fact mostly public domain.

    The majority of my efforts to attune myself to the lore Ashes of Creation has thus far provided, does a far better job of tangible world building than the efforts supporting the current state of Dunir aesthetics and behavior by 'leaps and bounds' if you forgive my pun...
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2024
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    You the one fell out his chair and started QQing.
    “Because magic…” is valid the moment the setting is High Fantasy.


    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    I will also refute that the accusation most of this is in my head interpretation and is a matter of fact mostly public domain.
    You got nothing to refute anything with.
    The lore in your head does not match the lore of the Ashes setting.


    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    The majority of my efforts to attune myself to the lore Ashes of Creation has thus far provided, does a far better job of tangible world building than the efforts supporting the current state of Dunir aesthetics and behavior by 'leaps and bounds'…
    Irrelevant.
  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    Just be careful that they don’t end up looking like Disney Dwarves, because they love to sue people.
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