The viable alternative to grinding is Questing.
But, there will be Quests in each progression path.
The 225 hours is the devs guesstimate for how long it takes to reach Level 50 Adventurer Level when focused on Adventurer Quests.
And, sure, if you don't only focus on Adventurer Questing it will take somewhat longer than 225 hours to reach max Adventurer Level.
Dodging the bullet was always strategy in the Ashes design - and they have designed with some solutions.
(We didn't need to see your vid to know that...)
But, you know, the Forums are here for discussion - so it's all good.
Oh, absolutely. Discussions are necessary to analyze topics from different perspectives.
Yet, I'm still pretty sure that leveling will end up being much faster. Especially 1-2-3 months after launch
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Some of that "much faster" will depend on server/Realm - because many of the progression paths - including Adventurer - are gated by the availablity of Cities and Metros. And Cities and Metros rise and fall.
Some of that "much faster" will depend on server/Realm - because many of the progression paths - including Adventurer - are gated by the availablity of Cities and Metros. And Cities and Metros rise and fall.
True, but I'm not talking about it from the perspective of a specific server. I'm talking about it overall. It may vary to a certain degree across different servers, but the trend will remain.
True, but I'm not talking about it from the perspective of a specific server. I'm talking about it overall. It may vary to a certain degree across different servers, but the trend will remain.
I know you aren't talking about it.
That's why I mentioned it.
We have no clue what the trend will be for Ashes - especially because speed of Adventurer progression is gated by Node progression. And, by design, Nodes constantly rise and fall.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I don't see the leveling speed they talked about as an issue. It's on par with MMOs from the past. SWG, EQ2 and WoW (2004ish) all took roughly that number of hours to get to cap and if felt fine.
I just did this recently in FFXIV and after 200 to 300 hours you are ready for leveling to end. Also as time goes on level caps go up so eventually you will have a 300, 400 or 500 hour leveling hill to climb.
You can obiously build into the game a quality leveling experience and hope people enjoy the ride, but at some point you just want to be at the same position as everyone else. When the hours get into the multiple hundreds, you're mentally at that point.
I don't see the leveling speed they talked about as an issue. It's on par with MMOs from the past. SWG, EQ2 and WoW (2004ish) all took roughly that number of hours to get to cap and if felt fine.
I'm sorry, how is it going in WoW now? Still 200+ hours to reach the level cap?
I don't see the leveling speed they talked about as an issue. It's on par with MMOs from the past. SWG, EQ2 and WoW (2004ish) all took roughly that number of hours to get to cap and if felt fine.
I'm sorry, how is it going in WoW now? Still 200+ hours to reach the level cap?
Don't know. I'm talking about older MMOs. What Ashes is going with is about what old school mmos did a long time ago. And that pace felt like you did something when you got there, but also ended around the time that you were ready for it to end.
Exactly. With most players basically being weekend gamers, calling for more than 225 hours until max levels when that isn't too much of a changing point to begin with makes no sense
I find it very interesting, that you keep saying that "level doesn't matter" (which is true) and "there is no endgame" (which is true). If it doesn't matter, how come extending leveling is an issue?
What I am saying is max level does not matter in the way you think it does. The level in Ashes - as @Ergophobic thankfully quoted - basically just allows players to partake in more and more gameplay loops that can become available.
Slowing down that leveling makes no sense because that means to unnecessarily lock casual player out of the games full content FOR MONTHS for a minority of people who according to yourself will utilize guides to powerlevel which is what Intrepid should care more about than the bigger percentage of players that play less than 20 hours a week.
But obviously you were already aware of that, you are aware of 99% of all information about this game.
"Because max level players run out of content otherwise" makes no sense, if they run out of content, so do all normal players still leveling too.
You completely miss one of the crucial points that I initially made and the example with rated servers in L2, which I'm pretty sure applies to other games with private servers as well. Basically, when two groups of players play the same game, those who play it on a server with lower rates - end up playing it significantly longer, no matter if they are casual or hardcore. You don't take into account a psychological aspect of it, specifically "not achieving something that you can achieve".
You are ignoring that this is not freaking Lineage 2, that Intrepid is aware of the issues L2 had because they played that and a lot of other MMOs and innovate Ashes with the exact goal to not create an L2 clone. So riding around about some data based on games that had a different build from this one makes no sense.
But again - you know that, thats what you told us. You are aware of all the information.
Meaning you know these are all veteran players and concluded that they are not willing or competent enough to make anythign different.
And like I said in my previous comments: There is no endpoint called "engame", max level leads into a loop and those have no end point.
Ugh, thank you for repeating exactly what I say in the video. I believe I already stated above that I'm aware of that
Why would I watch a video of someone who doubts the BASIC DESIGN SKILLS of the development team, whose product he is talking about? XD
With all due respect, its nice that you are making videos and all but I don't see how they can be constructive when you don't even have trust that Intrepid can get the freaking basics of game design right like "Don't make the games content optional" and with - as much as you claim otherwise - I doubt that you are knowledgable enough about Ashes for me to be interested in your content.
And if you happen to use my comments in any of your future videos, keep my name and picture out of it, please.
Slow leveling is an old concept from 2000's, where you could only pick a handful of mmo's. Having a PC back then was magic, reason why internet cafe's were also popular, for a while. That trend is gone as we live in different times no matter which gen you are.
What is the point of slow leveling in a game where it's strength is in the node systems?. The node system was specially designed to provide replay-ability in a slow way. I really think the end game is not affected by how fast or slow players can level, and it will be just a questioning wall for a potential user to try out the game after release.
Not to mention, after release, when everything is contested, guilds established, they will have less reasons to buy the subscription due to slow leveling, with a chance to not get anywhere but giving up during leveling.
There are exceptions yes, but the majority will think like this, otherwise all those who haven't tried yet: wow, FF, L2, GW2, BDO, etc, would be there now, but they aren't. AoC chance is only because is a new title, and its success will strongly depend on player retention from the alpha state.
ps. The idea with different server rates is not good, is a method invented by private servers to get money from all ranges, and It will defeat the purpose of a original IP and retail rate. Also, is not a survival game, like ARK or other with different rates.
Just because you played a mmo for the last 15 years, that doesn't mean that those mechanics and concepts from back then will make sense in 2024. Is just an illusion, and most know that, but is hard to admit it.
We all try to find excuses, and ways for how the game should be, to match our needs. In time, some of us will realize that nothing will satisfy us, as we will always search for the unknown/new, something better. Is part of human nature.
ps. excuse my broken english
You are ignoring that this is not freaking Lineage 2, that Intrepid is aware of the issues L2 had because they played that and a lot of other MMOs and innovate Ashes with the exact goal to not create an L2 clone. So riding around about some data based on games that had a different build from this one makes no sense.
How... on earth... am I ignoring it... when it is literally something I emphasize in the video?
Last sentence makes absolutely 0 sense and again, it wasn't my point. I do not compare these 2 games in general, I compare the specific aspects that can be easily seen when being pointed out and explained. It is much better and makes a lot of sense to learn from the mistakes that other games made. Intrepid made some decent progress when it comes to improving those systems, but they haven't eliminated all the issues.
With all due respect, its nice that you are making videos and all but I don't see how they can be constructive when you don't even have trust that Intrepid can get the freaking basics of game design right like "Don't make the games content optional" and with - as much as you claim otherwise - I doubt that you are knowledgable enough about Ashes for me to be interested in your content.
It's interesting how you say they are not constructive while not knowing what you're talking about. Whatever
I have trust in their vision, but vision alone does not make a game perfect. Intrepid knows that and that's the reason why they are constantly asking for feedback.
I have trust in their vision, but vision alone does not make a game perfect. Intrepid knows that and that's the reason why they are constantly asking for feedback
Yeah, they are asking for feedback but for some reason you are here and clearly stated that you doubt that they are able to make their own game content matter, which strikes as such fundamentally distrustful that I won't just move on to the next point.
Why do you think their current leveling model would allow for players to skip the gaming experience?
And since we are focusing on that core doubt now: If that is an issue - why is following a guide to skip actual engagement with the game and getting good at is not an issue?
1. The average player would reach level 50 within approximately ~2 months. It means the only future updates he will care about are those related to endgame. Therefore, Intrepid will be forced to prioritize endgame content to prevent those players from leaving; this will not stop and will only get worse over time.
why do you say that its a strawman argument... if i say that you assume people will drop out of the game if they reach lvl 50 "unless endgame content updates" ...
its literally what you say and assume ...
just saying you didnt say it doesnt make it go away lol
Honestly, I know top end raiders that only spend 6 hours a week in the game.
Which game? xD
I've known it to happen in WoW, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Age of Conan, and a few others.
Not every top end raider can do that (nor did I claim that to be the case). However, under the right circumstances, depending on the games specific design, it is perfectly possible for a raider to only log in for raids, and if a top end guild has no new content to go after, 6 hours of raiding a week is plenty (actually, if there are no new targets to go after, 6 hours is too much).
Yeah, they are asking for feedback but for some reason you are here and clearly stated that you doubt that they are able to make their own game content matter, which strikes as such fundamentally distrustful that I won't just move on to the next point.
However it strikes you, you are free to have that impression. Subjective opinions and perception may vary, yet they are not objective facts. It has nothing to do with the actual point of this convesation.
And since we are focusing on that core doubt now: If that is an issue - why is following a guide to skip actual engagement with the game and getting good at is not an issue?
It is a natural cause of events that will inevitably happen one way or another. Metaphorically saying, it's like jumping down from the cliff and then blaming the gravity because you broke your leg. It makes no sense as gravity always works the same way. Same as a significant percentage of people who will look for tips and tricks on YouTube. It happened with any other popular MMO and if you think it's not gonna be the case with Ashes, well, think again.
Meaningless claim since you haven't tested Ashes systems enough to know.
It's not meaningless as there are example of that. Here is one of them for you, my stubborn friend: they took PvP and Corruption system from Lineage 2 and adressed the majority of issues the system had in L2.
1. The average player would reach level 50 within approximately ~2 months. It means the only future updates he will care about are those related to endgame. Therefore, Intrepid will be forced to prioritize endgame content to prevent those players from leaving; this will not stop and will only get worse over time.
why do you say that its a strawman argument... if i say that you assume people will drop out of the game if they reach lvl 50 "unless endgame content updates" ...
its literally what you say and assume ...
just saying you didnt say it doesnt make it go away lol
There is a difference between what I said in that particular message and how you twisted it. It's getting ridiculous, ngl.
I've known it to happen in WoW, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Age of Conan, and a few others.
Not every top end raider can do that (nor did I claim that to be the case). However, under the right circumstances, depending on the games specific design, it is perfectly possible for a raider to only log in for raids, and if a top end guild has no new content to go after, 6 hours of raiding a week is plenty (actually, if there are no new targets to go after, 6 hours is too much).
Do I need to point out that exceptions do not disprove the rule?
Do I need to point out that most likely, there was a bigger time investment prior to that, so that those players could just log in, do the dungeons quickly and then leave?
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It's not meaningless as there are examples of that. Here is one of them for you, my stubborn friend: they took PvP and Corruption system from Lineage 2 and adressed the majority of issues the system had in L2.
The design addresses some of the Karma issues that concerned Steven.
Corruption still needs be tested before we can know if the implementation truly addresses the issues.
The same is true for Ashes "Endgame".
We have to test the implemented gameplay before we can meaningfully evaluate whether the systems work as intended.
So far, you aren't particularly convincing. And you mostly seem like you don't understand the design very well.
The design addresses some of the Karma issues that concerned Steven.
Corruption still needs be tested before we can know if the implementation truly addresses the issues.
That particular one might be difficult to test throughout Alpha and Beta phases. IIRC during Alpha 1 they even turned off PvP because people were acting like people - fighting everyone left and right.
I assume that we might see something similar during the upcoming Alpha 2, because it's Alpha with wipes and people don't really care about death penalties, losing gear because of going corrupt etc.
Yet, post-launch, the situation will change drastically for obvious reasons.
Do I need to point out that exceptions do not disprove the rule?
Before you do, you need to point out where I said it was the rule.
I said I know some, and I do.
This is what I said, not you. Switching to wordplays has little to no contribution to a proper discussion. You understood the point that I made and we both know you understood it perfectly.
There are exceptions in rules, trends, patterns, whatever you prefer to call it. Yet they do not represent the whole sampling.
Here, found this for you.
Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may contradict that position.
This is a discussion. It's fine if people sometimes have different opinions. My goal is not to make everyone agree with me, it's not my hill to die on and I'm not looking for an echo chamber. There is a chance I might be wrong (and I secretly hope it is the case). But I remain concerned at this point. And I remain confident with my opinion and don't mind it being challenged.
maybe reframe what you try to say if people get it wrong ...
I am responsible for what I say. I can't be responsible for 10 possible interpretations of my words or my words being twisted, whether it is done intentionally or unintentionally.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
That particular one might be difficult to test throughout Alpha and Beta phases. IIRC during Alpha 1 they even turned off PvP because people were acting like people - fighting everyone left and right.
I assume that we might see something similar during the upcoming Alpha 2, because it's Alpha with wipes and people don't really care about death penalties, losing gear because of going corrupt etc.
Corruption was not functional for A1.
It has to be functional before the Betas.
Point out what is that exactly that I don't understand.
You don't understand how XP is distributed among the various progression paths.
Nor do you understand the relationships of the various progression paths.
Nor do you understand the plans for introducing updates.
Nor do you understand the relationships between the rise and fall of Nodes and the availability or scarcity of new content.
Yeah, they are asking for feedback but for some reason you are here and clearly stated that you doubt that they are able to make their own game content matter, which strikes as such fundamentally distrustful that I won't just move on to the next point.
However it strikes you, you are free to have that impression. Subjective opinions and perception may vary, yet they are not objective facts. It has nothing to do with the actual point of this convesation.
It has NOTHING to with the conversation that you think that Intrepid is so bad at game designing that the leveling pace will make the majority of the content skipable? In a conversation about meaningful content?
Could you explain why the presumed inability to make meaningful content does not matter in a conversation where you worry about content being meaningful (by being not skippable)?
And since we are focusing on that core doubt now: If that is an issue - why is following a guide to skip actual engagement with the game and getting good at is not an issue?
It is a natural cause of events that will inevitably happen one way or another. Metaphorically saying, it's like jumping down from the cliff and then blaming the gravity because you broke your leg. It makes no sense as gravity always works the same way. Same as a significant percentage of people who will look for tips and tricks on YouTube. It happened with any other popular MMO and if you think it's not gonna be the case with Ashes, well, think again.
Never doubted that, my point from the very beginning has been that there is just no reason to cater to people who - metaphorically - jump down cliffs. Therefore these people are entirely irrelevant when talking about whether leveling pace should be changed.
Intrepid made some decent progress when it comes to improving those systems, but they haven't eliminated all the issues.
Meaningless claim since you haven't tested Ashes systems enough to know.
Nono, he is aware of 99% of the information, remember?
I'd make a joke here but I don't think it would be appropriate. You should look up what tribalism and confirmation bias is
Did you find the box with the buzzwords? A joke would have been more fun.
But I get that this might not seem all that civil anymore, sorry about that.
Do you at least get - not necessarily share - where Dygz and I are coming from?
That we see very clear signs that leveling speed is not a dial that shows any necessity for adjustment and the points why we don't agree?
So, why do we focus on a lower extreme point instead of "the average MMO player"?
So we know where the lower limit for people to play the game is. Knowing whose going to get the worst experience helps with evaluating if something is too much or too little.
You probably misunderstood it. I was talking about PvP servers with high rates like x50-x100 and higher. The point that I was trying to make is that even though PvP loop is potentially infinite, in reality it's not.
And no, Lineage 2 had a variety of different classes with unique skills. One of the patches that is considered to be decent was called High Five and it had 36 unique classes.
It's not about the classes. It's about how MMOs work. You get stuff by killing things which makes you more powerful. There's no reset like other games, which means the people at the top stay at the top. It's a major problem that OWPvP games have. An issue this game doesn't really do anything to curtail.
I would appreciate if you didn't talk so confidently about the things you have no idea about. Even though the came originally came in 2003-2004, it changed significantly throughout the years. Nostalgia is not the only reason why people play games.
That's not what I'm not talking about. What I'm saying I'm talking about the fact that when the game came out there were a very small amount of options and most of them all had the around the same options
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the lack of options in MMORPGs at the time. WoW hadn't come out yet and most games already had long times to level. L2 took this to the extreme which worked because they made leveling more fun.
Because everyone has a breaking point and the higher the number gets the more likely people will break. This doesn't mean they should never change the number just leave it as it is and test it first. Were already at the upper limit of what people can stand normally. Let's see how good the leveling is then go from there.
This part serves no purpose. I stated a fact and you write... this...
The fact that people don't listen to you isn't relevant all you can do is give people information it's up to them to use it. If you have told them, there is nothing else you can do, they can listen or not listen. That's their choice.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Flanker
I mean... you can look for tips and tricks for static games.
That won't be particulalry helpful in a dynamic game like Ashes.
Especially when different servers/Realms will have different content.
The stuff you have concerns about fit other MMORPGs that do not conform to the Ashes game design.
Comments
Yet, I'm still pretty sure that leveling will end up being much faster. Especially 1-2-3 months after launch
Honestly, I know top end raiders that only spend 6 hours a week in the game.
That's why I mentioned it.
We have no clue what the trend will be for Ashes - especially because speed of Adventurer progression is gated by Node progression. And, by design, Nodes constantly rise and fall.
I just did this recently in FFXIV and after 200 to 300 hours you are ready for leveling to end. Also as time goes on level caps go up so eventually you will have a 300, 400 or 500 hour leveling hill to climb.
You can obiously build into the game a quality leveling experience and hope people enjoy the ride, but at some point you just want to be at the same position as everyone else. When the hours get into the multiple hundreds, you're mentally at that point.
Don't know. I'm talking about older MMOs. What Ashes is going with is about what old school mmos did a long time ago. And that pace felt like you did something when you got there, but also ended around the time that you were ready for it to end.
What I am saying is max level does not matter in the way you think it does. The level in Ashes - as @Ergophobic thankfully quoted - basically just allows players to partake in more and more gameplay loops that can become available.
Slowing down that leveling makes no sense because that means to unnecessarily lock casual player out of the games full content FOR MONTHS for a minority of people who according to yourself will utilize guides to powerlevel which is what Intrepid should care more about than the bigger percentage of players that play less than 20 hours a week.
But obviously you were already aware of that, you are aware of 99% of all information about this game.
You are ignoring that this is not freaking Lineage 2, that Intrepid is aware of the issues L2 had because they played that and a lot of other MMOs and innovate Ashes with the exact goal to not create an L2 clone. So riding around about some data based on games that had a different build from this one makes no sense.
But again - you know that, thats what you told us. You are aware of all the information.
Meaning you know these are all veteran players and concluded that they are not willing or competent enough to make anythign different.
Why would I watch a video of someone who doubts the BASIC DESIGN SKILLS of the development team, whose product he is talking about? XD
With all due respect, its nice that you are making videos and all but I don't see how they can be constructive when you don't even have trust that Intrepid can get the freaking basics of game design right like "Don't make the games content optional" and with - as much as you claim otherwise - I doubt that you are knowledgable enough about Ashes for me to be interested in your content.
And if you happen to use my comments in any of your future videos, keep my name and picture out of it, please.
What is the point of slow leveling in a game where it's strength is in the node systems?. The node system was specially designed to provide replay-ability in a slow way. I really think the end game is not affected by how fast or slow players can level, and it will be just a questioning wall for a potential user to try out the game after release.
Not to mention, after release, when everything is contested, guilds established, they will have less reasons to buy the subscription due to slow leveling, with a chance to not get anywhere but giving up during leveling.
There are exceptions yes, but the majority will think like this, otherwise all those who haven't tried yet: wow, FF, L2, GW2, BDO, etc, would be there now, but they aren't. AoC chance is only because is a new title, and its success will strongly depend on player retention from the alpha state.
ps. The idea with different server rates is not good, is a method invented by private servers to get money from all ranges, and It will defeat the purpose of a original IP and retail rate. Also, is not a survival game, like ARK or other with different rates.
Just because you played a mmo for the last 15 years, that doesn't mean that those mechanics and concepts from back then will make sense in 2024. Is just an illusion, and most know that, but is hard to admit it.
We all try to find excuses, and ways for how the game should be, to match our needs. In time, some of us will realize that nothing will satisfy us, as we will always search for the unknown/new, something better. Is part of human nature.
ps. excuse my broken english
Last sentence makes absolutely 0 sense and again, it wasn't my point. I do not compare these 2 games in general, I compare the specific aspects that can be easily seen when being pointed out and explained. It is much better and makes a lot of sense to learn from the mistakes that other games made. Intrepid made some decent progress when it comes to improving those systems, but they haven't eliminated all the issues. Maybe because it could save both of us time as long as we participate in this brilliant discussion?
"Basic design skills" - umm.... what? It's interesting how you say they are not constructive while not knowing what you're talking about. Whatever
I have trust in their vision, but vision alone does not make a game perfect. Intrepid knows that and that's the reason why they are constantly asking for feedback.
Yeah, they are asking for feedback but for some reason you are here and clearly stated that you doubt that they are able to make their own game content matter, which strikes as such fundamentally distrustful that I won't just move on to the next point.
Why do you think their current leveling model would allow for players to skip the gaming experience?
And since we are focusing on that core doubt now: If that is an issue - why is following a guide to skip actual engagement with the game and getting good at is not an issue?
Nono, he is aware of 99% of the information, remember?
why do you say that its a strawman argument... if i say that you assume people will drop out of the game if they reach lvl 50 "unless endgame content updates" ...
its literally what you say and assume ...
just saying you didnt say it doesnt make it go away lol
I've known it to happen in WoW, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Age of Conan, and a few others.
Not every top end raider can do that (nor did I claim that to be the case). However, under the right circumstances, depending on the games specific design, it is perfectly possible for a raider to only log in for raids, and if a top end guild has no new content to go after, 6 hours of raiding a week is plenty (actually, if there are no new targets to go after, 6 hours is too much).
The reasons and TL;DW are in the first post. Tired of repeating them over and over again
It is a natural cause of events that will inevitably happen one way or another. Metaphorically saying, it's like jumping down from the cliff and then blaming the gravity because you broke your leg. It makes no sense as gravity always works the same way. Same as a significant percentage of people who will look for tips and tricks on YouTube. It happened with any other popular MMO and if you think it's not gonna be the case with Ashes, well, think again.
It's not meaningless as there are example of that. Here is one of them for you, my stubborn friend: they took PvP and Corruption system from Lineage 2 and adressed the majority of issues the system had in L2.
I'd make a joke here but I don't think it would be appropriate. You should look up what tribalism and confirmation bias is
Do I need to point out that exceptions do not disprove the rule?
Do I need to point out that most likely, there was a bigger time investment prior to that, so that those players could just log in, do the dungeons quickly and then leave?
Corruption still needs be tested before we can know if the implementation truly addresses the issues.
The same is true for Ashes "Endgame".
We have to test the implemented gameplay before we can meaningfully evaluate whether the systems work as intended.
So far, you aren't particularly convincing. And you mostly seem like you don't understand the design very well.
I said I know some, and I do.
I assume that we might see something similar during the upcoming Alpha 2, because it's Alpha with wipes and people don't really care about death penalties, losing gear because of going corrupt etc.
Yet, post-launch, the situation will change drastically for obvious reasons. Point out what is that exactly that I don't understand
maybe reframe what you try to say if people get it wrong ...
There are exceptions in rules, trends, patterns, whatever you prefer to call it. Yet they do not represent the whole sampling.
Here, found this for you.
Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may contradict that position.
It has to be functional before the Betas.
You don't understand how XP is distributed among the various progression paths.
Nor do you understand the relationships of the various progression paths.
Nor do you understand the plans for introducing updates.
Nor do you understand the relationships between the rise and fall of Nodes and the availability or scarcity of new content.
It has NOTHING to with the conversation that you think that Intrepid is so bad at game designing that the leveling pace will make the majority of the content skipable? In a conversation about meaningful content?
Could you explain why the presumed inability to make meaningful content does not matter in a conversation where you worry about content being meaningful (by being not skippable)?
Never doubted that, my point from the very beginning has been that there is just no reason to cater to people who - metaphorically - jump down cliffs. Therefore these people are entirely irrelevant when talking about whether leveling pace should be changed.
Did you find the box with the buzzwords? A joke would have been more fun.
But I get that this might not seem all that civil anymore, sorry about that.
Do you at least get - not necessarily share - where Dygz and I are coming from?
That we see very clear signs that leveling speed is not a dial that shows any necessity for adjustment and the points why we don't agree?
It's not about the classes. It's about how MMOs work. You get stuff by killing things which makes you more powerful. There's no reset like other games, which means the people at the top stay at the top. It's a major problem that OWPvP games have. An issue this game doesn't really do anything to curtail.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the lack of options in MMORPGs at the time. WoW hadn't come out yet and most games already had long times to level. L2 took this to the extreme which worked because they made leveling more fun.
Because everyone has a breaking point and the higher the number gets the more likely people will break. This doesn't mean they should never change the number just leave it as it is and test it first. Were already at the upper limit of what people can stand normally. Let's see how good the leveling is then go from there.
The fact that people don't listen to you isn't relevant all you can do is give people information it's up to them to use it. If you have told them, there is nothing else you can do, they can listen or not listen. That's their choice.
I mean... you can look for tips and tricks for static games.
That won't be particulalry helpful in a dynamic game like Ashes.
Especially when different servers/Realms will have different content.
The stuff you have concerns about fit other MMORPGs that do not conform to the Ashes game design.